Carnivores – why?

hmmm.. it is interesting to see that the carnivore post has way more responses than the vegetrian one. So I am thinking the people that do not eat may feel a little superior and bashing the people who do eat me.

hmmmm, interesting bias. Actually, if you actually read through the posts, you will see a vast majority of the vegetarians not bashing meat eaters at all (there are some excpetions to this yes). And actually most of the flame posts come from meat eaters.

Carnivores always get offended? You don't intend to offend anyone? Why can't vegetarians just leave the carnivores alone? You eat what you want and let the carnivores eat meat. I think vegetarians get more out of sorts when someone questions THEM about their choices. Let sleeping dogs lie.
PS Anyone who starts their post with "I don't intend to offend anyone." .. usually does.:noway:

No, I am trying to get to the bottom of a flawed argument that leads followers to deem themselves morally superior. I find it interesting that you would leave rather than actually attempt to logically work out the discussion and defend your stance.

I cannot answer for the person you were quoting. But personally, I do not feel morally superior in any way. I do not eat meat because it makes ME feel better about MYSELF, not feel that I am better than anyone else.

(Caps for emphasis not because I am shouting!!)

Edited to fix quote

I don't feel morally superior, either, so I don't know where this person got that from. I just don't eat meat because it is what makes me happy and ok with my food decisions. I don't think I am better than anyone. I know I have plenty of other things that people would probably find morally objective about me.

I am not going to lie. I do feel morally superior. And healthier.

Glad you feel healthier than someone you have never met. I find your discussion style rather aggressive and judgemental. Is this going to be an exchange of ideas or you just sniping comments?

I am happy to exchange idea. In the realm of vegetarianism, ideas on diet are based on studies, like the China Study, the Framingham Study, the German Vegetarian study and about a thousand more. Anything unsupported by science is mere opinion.

Now I also assumed that when you said you wanted a discussion, you wanted an honest discussion. Honestly I feel morally superior to meat eaters. I could lie and be politically correct, and I will if it makes you feel more comfortable, but I can eat and survive without killing a sentient feeling being. I am superior.

I know that is going to convince no one, but at least I am being honest. What SHOULD convince you are the hundreds of studies done on diets that demonstrate that meat is implicated in chronic diseases and shorter life span. Humans are a vegetarian species. We are not meant to eat meat. There is ample evidence for that.

hmmm.. it is interesting to see that the carnivore post has way more responses than the vegetrian one. So I am thinking the people that do not eat may feel a little superior and bashing the people who do eat me.

hmmmm, interesting bias. Actually, if you actually read through the posts, you will see a vast majority of the vegetarians not bashing meat eaters at all (there are some excpetions to this yes). And actually most of the flame posts come from meat eaters.

I see a lot of very general claims of attack and a lot of garbage... but that's what I always see on MFP threads.

Outside of MFP I honestly see meat eaters being ****s to vegetarians all the time but I also see vegetarians being complete ****s to meat eaters. I've decided that this can mean only one thing;

Some people are just ****s.

Now that is something I definately agree with you on!!

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em

Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.

The New York Times is not a scientific journal and is frequently full of drivel. Kindly refer me to a STUDY that shows plants feel pain.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/29/10033.full.pdf+html?sid=f78311f9-74dc-4ef7-a8a6-0993bb8ae907

I read the abstract of this article. It has NOTHING to do with plants feeling pain. It concerns adoptive evolutionary strategies, nothing more.

hmmm.. it is interesting to see that the carnivore post has way more responses than the vegetrian one. So I am thinking the people that do not eat may feel a little superior and bashing the people who do eat me.

hmmmm, interesting bias. Actually, if you actually read through the posts, you will see a vast majority of the vegetarians not bashing meat eaters at all (there are some excpetions to this yes). And actually most of the flame posts come from meat eaters.

Probably because they are tired of being judged by vegetarians. Works both ways. If someone is criticizing one group, the other will be up in arms. Can't we all just get along? (RIP Rodney)

Because I grew up eating long before I ever had a choice in the matter, and I like it. I love me some meat.

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em

Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.

The New York Times is not a scientific journal and is frequently full of drivel. Kindly refer me to a STUDY that shows plants feel pain.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/29/10033.full.pdf+html?sid=f78311f9-74dc-4ef7-a8a6-0993bb8ae907

I read the abstract of this article. It has NOTHING to do with plants feeling pain. It concerns adoptive evolutionary strategies, nothing more.

What do you think pain is other than our body telling us to react to negative stimuli?

hmmm.. it is interesting to see that the carnivore post has way more responses than the vegetrian one. So I am thinking the people that do not eat may feel a little superior and bashing the people who do eat me.

hmmmm, interesting bias. Actually, if you actually read through the posts, you will see a vast majority of the vegetarians not bashing meat eaters at all (there are some excpetions to this yes). And actually most of the flame posts come from meat eaters.

Probably because they are tired of being judged by vegetarians. Works both ways. If someone is criticizing one group, the other will be up in arms. Can't we all just get along? (RIP Rodney)

Absolutely! I would just like to extend that circle of beings just getting along to include animals.

hmmm.. it is interesting to see that the carnivore post has way more responses than the vegetrian one. So I am thinking the people that do not eat may feel a little superior and bashing the people who do eat me.

hmmmm, interesting bias. Actually, if you actually read through the posts, you will see a vast majority of the vegetarians not bashing meat eaters at all (there are some excpetions to this yes). And actually most of the flame posts come from meat eaters.

I see a lot of very general claims of attack and a lot of garbage... but that's what I always see on MFP threads.

Outside of MFP I honestly see meat eaters being ****s to vegetarians all the time but I also see vegetarians being complete ****s to meat eaters. I've decided that this can mean only one thing;

Some people are just ****s.

That made me smile. Some people are just ****s. :P

I feel people can do what ever they want to their bodies which also included they can put when ever they want into their bodies. There doesn't have to be any mean word extanged between both vegitatrians and carnivoirse. You only live once so put/do what ever pleases you!

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em

Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.

The New York Times is not a scientific journal and is frequently full of drivel. Kindly refer me to a STUDY that shows plants feel pain.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/29/10033.full.pdf+html?sid=f78311f9-74dc-4ef7-a8a6-0993bb8ae907

I read the abstract of this article. It has NOTHING to do with plants feeling pain. It concerns adoptive evolutionary strategies, nothing more.

What do you think pain is other than our body telling us to react to negative stimuli?

Seriously, have you ever had a biology course? You cannot have pain without a nervous system. Period. End of Story.

Lol. Did anyone else realize this is an exact copy of vegetarians..why?

Its pretty common on here - one thread starts and shortly after another voicing the total opposite opinion will appear.

Are people really having this argument of vegetarian vs carnivores?..:ohwell: I thought the point of this forum was for the meat eaters to point out why they choose to eat meat istead of bashing each other for actually doing it...

Cant we just eat what makes us happy and get on with our lives instead of criticizing the others lifestyle choice?
Everyone has their own reasons for why the do and do not do things so just respect it. :flowerforyou:

No you cannot eat what makes you happy, any more than you can do drugs because it makes you happy. We live in a nanny state. The state tells us via Obamacare and other such horrors that when you get sick because you ate the wrong diet, or smoked or did drugs, that I have to chip in to pay for your treatment.

If we had the perfect libertarian state where we took care of ourselves and were responsible for our own actions, then yes, you could eat what you wanted.

Dear Vegetarians:

Hate to break it to you... but plants are living things too!

Oh good lord.....this is the best you can do?

^^ Is THIS the best YOU can do?

First, pick a tomato. Then, run down a wild boar, wrestle it to the ground, and fight it to the death. Now, let's compare those two experiences.

So you would prefer to feed on the reproductive organs of a helpless plant rather than allow a creature to fight or its life?

Are you deliberately trying not to understand my point?

Are you deliberately trying to evade the point that plants are living things as well? So it is no less humane to kill an animal than harvest plants.

You forget that it takes at least 2 pounds of plant food to create a single pound of meat (some estimates are much higher). Therefore, if your heart bleeds for plants, you are causing double the 'pain' due to your food choice. But truly, I doubt if you would put the 'suffering' of plants on the order you do of animals, that you aren't being at all serious. I cut my teeth on this argument as a young vegetarian 40 years ago, so you aren't being as original as you may think you are being.

I am fully conscious of my place in the world as an omnivore so my heart does not bleed for the food chain. But, new studies in the physiology of plants have come out in the last 40 years that may change your views on sentience and how it relates to the plant world. If your vegetarian/veganism is based on the moral argument that it is cruel to feed on living, sentient creatures, then logic dictates that you must expand this to plant life as well.

Really? Could you give me cite to at least ONE of these many studies? Since plants don't have nervous systems, I really want to see this. I've only read two pages of this but already I have seen the usual dumb arguments.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/22/science/22angi.html?_r=3&em

Here is the article in the NYT that was part of the earlier part of the discussion.

The New York Times is not a scientific journal and is frequently full of drivel. Kindly refer me to a STUDY that shows plants feel pain.

http://www.pnas.org/content/105/29/10033.full.pdf+html?sid=f78311f9-74dc-4ef7-a8a6-0993bb8ae907

I read the abstract of this article. It has NOTHING to do with plants feeling pain. It concerns adoptive evolutionary strategies, nothing more.

What do you think pain is other than our body telling us to react to negative stimuli?

Seriously, have you ever had a biology course? You cannot have pain without a nervous system. Period. End of Story.

Yes, the mammalian reaction that is called pain utilizes the nervous system. But that does not mean that other forms of life do not react to negative external stimuli. I enjoy the smell of fresh cut grass, but grass does not enjoy being cut and its response to being cut is to release something that smells like that. What that smell does is attract bugs that eat the caterpillars that used prey on the grass and those bugs remove the threat. It is much like when you step on something sharp and your nervous system tells you that there is something hurting you by indicating pain so that you stop.