If low carb works, why are people still fat?

As with any weight loss method, if it is merely a "diet" and not a lifestyle change a person will always fail.

That goes with low fat, low carb, calorie counting, etc...........

That's simply not true - my diet worked, and it has done previously

There are times in my life when I find myself 15-20lbs overweight; this might be because of injury, non-football season, or just circumstances where I can't exercise/eat as per normal

I then go on a strict, non-sustainable, horrible, hard work, diet, eating food that I really don't like and doing additional gym work that is too hard and also non-sustainable. Certainly not a lifestyle change!

Low and behold my diet works! 3 months later and I am back to my preferred weight. I am no longer on a diet and did not make a lifestyle change.

I will always fail? I think not. My diet worked.

Lol. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not...looks like it. But, either way, that's hilarious. Lol.

Deadly serious - can you dispute anything I have said?

Yes, I can.

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the solution to obesity does fit in one sentence, actually just four words. Eat less, exercise more.

Don't you think if "eat less move more" actually worked, then no one would be fat?!?!?!

It's all about adherence, people don't seem to be very good at being consistent about it

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

I have no problem saying I got fat because I ate too much and didn't move enough. I could have counted calories, which I had no excuses not to do because the information is everywhere, but I didn't want to. I could have walked every day, but I didn't want to.

I'm not sure why so many low-carbers have trouble taking responsibility for themselves? Taubes made a mint telling people what they want to hear: it wasn't their fault, they didn't eat too much food, exercise is pointless... it's all the ebil, ebil food's fault.

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the solution to obesity does fit in one sentence, actually just four words. Eat less, exercise more.

...Except for those of us who've busted our a**es following the "eat less, move more" (which has its own diminishing returns, btw), doing everything "right", and still saw neither the scale, nor the tape measure move.

What most people don't seem to realize is that while "eat less, move more" does work for the general population (particularly one that's used to sitting on their butts, eating Cheetos all day), there is a fair-sized portion for which that doesn't actually work for, even though those people are considered "healthy" by medical tests (good A1C, thyroid, etc results).

I'm not sure why so many low-carbers have trouble taking responsibility for themselves? Taubes made a mint telling people what they want to hear: it wasn't their fault, they didn't eat too much food, exercise is pointless... it's all the ebil, ebil food's fault.

Perhaps because for a lot of people who have gone the low-carb route, "eat less, move more" didn't work. Carbs screw with your hormones by dumping glucose into your bloodstream, causing an insulin response (yes, even "healthy" carbs do this, not just sugar). Do that enough times, with enough insulin, over a long enough period of time, and you desensitize your muscles and burn out your pancreas (not unlike how alcoholics often burn out their livers). Even for those with adequate insulin sensitivity, other hormones can make people prone to gaining weight and not being able to lose it. This is a common symptom of PCOS, which elevates testosterone in women with it, making it nearly impossible for them to lose weight. There's also growing evidence that humans in general can't handle gluten very well (ie - that gluten intolerance isn't nearly as rare as once believed), and that a good portion of the population may actually have subclinical intolerance to it, which has often been linked to a host of non-descript problems (part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose), which can directly and indirectly lead to weight gain and/or difficulty losing weight.

So yes, for some of us, it is the "ebil, ebil food's" fault.

Hilarious.

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the solution to obesity does fit in one sentence, actually just four words. Eat less, exercise more.

...Except for those of us who've busted our a**es following the "eat less, move more" (which has its own diminishing returns, btw), doing everything "right", and still saw neither the scale, nor the tape measure move.

What most people don't seem to realize is that while "eat less, move more" does work for the general population (particularly one that's used to sitting on their butts, eating Cheetos all day), there is a fair-sized portion for which that doesn't actually work for, even though those people are considered "healthy" by medical tests (good A1C, thyroid, etc results).

I'm not sure why so many low-carbers have trouble taking responsibility for themselves? Taubes made a mint telling people what they want to hear: it wasn't their fault, they didn't eat too much food, exercise is pointless... it's all the ebil, ebil food's fault.

Perhaps because for a lot of people who have gone the low-carb route, "eat less, move more" didn't work. Carbs screw with your hormones by dumping glucose into your bloodstream, causing an insulin response (yes, even "healthy" carbs do this, not just sugar). Do that enough times, with enough insulin, over a long enough period of time, and you desensitize your muscles and burn out your pancreas (not unlike how alcoholics often burn out their livers). Even for those with adequate insulin sensitivity, other hormones can make people prone to gaining weight and not being able to lose it. This is a common symptom of PCOS, which elevates testosterone in women with it, making it nearly impossible for them to lose weight. There's also growing evidence that humans in general can't handle gluten very well (ie - that gluten intolerance isn't nearly as rare as once believed), and that a good portion of the population may actually have subclinical intolerance to it, which has often been linked to a host of non-descript problems (part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose), which can directly and indirectly lead to weight gain and/or difficulty losing weight.

So yes, for some of us, it is the "ebil, ebil food's" fault.

So it is the fault of the food? Not the fault of the people who overeat the food? Do I have that right??

Or what if refined carbs really do make you fat and if you stop eating them your body can do its job and maintain your weight effortlessly like every other animal on the planet who eats their natural diet? It's as obvious as eat less and move more except maybe this idea will actually work.

And here's another thing to think about if obesity, diabetes, heart disease and a whole host of other modern diseases are all linked to together and a no refined carb diet has been known to cure and reverse some of these diseases...no ones even a little curious about whether or not refined carbs are causing the diseases in the first place?

It's miserable being fat and I never want to be this way again. So I'm going to stick to avoiding "healthy whole grains" and eating "artery clogging saturated fat" and enjoy having a normal appetite without the constant need to eat every couple of hours, improved health and greater weight loss than I was getting before I cut the whole grains out of my diet. And if anyone else is planning their snacks for the day like a four star general trying to keep an insatiable appetite in check and eating all day long but still trying to be under your calorie goal for the day you might want to look into a low carb, high fat diet. Here's a good one:

LCHF for beginners
http://www.dietdoctor.com/lchf

Bottom line? Everyone is going to do what works or makes sense to them. I sincerely hope everyone is successful with their weight loss no matter how you get there.

That's the diet I'm trying to follow. I'm doing good and all but its hard finding food to get for lunch at work (I'd love to find something besides steak salads) but it really does help with my appetite so it's not that bad.

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the solution to obesity does fit in one sentence, actually just four words. Eat less, exercise more.

...Except for those of us who've busted our a**es following the "eat less, move more" (which has its own diminishing returns, btw), doing everything "right", and still saw neither the scale, nor the tape measure move.

What most people don't seem to realize is that while "eat less, move more" does work for the general population (particularly one that's used to sitting on their butts, eating Cheetos all day), there is a fair-sized portion for which that doesn't actually work for, even though those people are considered "healthy" by medical tests (good A1C, thyroid, etc results).

I'm not sure why so many low-carbers have trouble taking responsibility for themselves? Taubes made a mint telling people what they want to hear: it wasn't their fault, they didn't eat too much food, exercise is pointless... it's all the ebil, ebil food's fault.

Perhaps because for a lot of people who have gone the low-carb route, "eat less, move more" didn't work. Carbs screw with your hormones by dumping glucose into your bloodstream, causing an insulin response (yes, even "healthy" carbs do this, not just sugar). Do that enough times, with enough insulin, over a long enough period of time, and you desensitize your muscles and burn out your pancreas (not unlike how alcoholics often burn out their livers). Even for those with adequate insulin sensitivity, other hormones can make people prone to gaining weight and not being able to lose it. This is a common symptom of PCOS, which elevates testosterone in women with it, making it nearly impossible for them to lose weight. There's also growing evidence that humans in general can't handle gluten very well (ie - that gluten intolerance isn't nearly as rare as once believed), and that a good portion of the population may actually have subclinical intolerance to it, which has often been linked to a host of non-descript problems (part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose), which can directly and indirectly lead to weight gain and/or difficulty losing weight.

So yes, for some of us, it is the "ebil, ebil food's" fault.

Hilarious.

Yep. I could argue that protein creates an insulin response, not just carbohydrate. I could argue that the insulin theory has been debunked for decades. I could point out that there are type 2 diabetes on MFP losing weight just fine and improving their blood sugar numbers without a low-carb diet. I could point out that I have PCOS and am losing weight without a low-carb diet. I could argue that only very few, as in 1-2%, have a true gluten sensitivity and there's no hard, medical evidence of it being a problem for anyone else. I could compare today's undiagnosable "gluten sensitivity" causing all these "nondescript problems" (i.e anyone can think they have it for any reason) with the red dye scare in the 90s. I could call it a bored housewife fad.

But I'd be wasting my breath, wouldn't I?

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the solution to obesity does fit in one sentence, actually just four words. Eat less, exercise more.

...Except for those of us who've busted our a**es following the "eat less, move more" (which has its own diminishing returns, btw), doing everything "right", and still saw neither the scale, nor the tape measure move.

What most people don't seem to realize is that while "eat less, move more" does work for the general population (particularly one that's used to sitting on their butts, eating Cheetos all day), there is a fair-sized portion for which that doesn't actually work for, even though those people are considered "healthy" by medical tests (good A1C, thyroid, etc results).

I'm not sure why so many low-carbers have trouble taking responsibility for themselves? Taubes made a mint telling people what they want to hear: it wasn't their fault, they didn't eat too much food, exercise is pointless... it's all the ebil, ebil food's fault.

Perhaps because for a lot of people who have gone the low-carb route, "eat less, move more" didn't work. Carbs screw with your hormones by dumping glucose into your bloodstream, causing an insulin response (yes, even "healthy" carbs do this, not just sugar). Do that enough times, with enough insulin, over a long enough period of time, and you desensitize your muscles and burn out your pancreas (not unlike how alcoholics often burn out their livers). Even for those with adequate insulin sensitivity, other hormones can make people prone to gaining weight and not being able to lose it. This is a common symptom of PCOS, which elevates testosterone in women with it, making it nearly impossible for them to lose weight. There's also growing evidence that humans in general can't handle gluten very well (ie - that gluten intolerance isn't nearly as rare as once believed), and that a good portion of the population may actually have subclinical intolerance to it, which has often been linked to a host of non-descript problems (part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose), which can directly and indirectly lead to weight gain and/or difficulty losing weight.

So yes, for some of us, it is the "ebil, ebil food's" fault.

So it is the fault of the food? Not the fault of the people who overeat the food? Do I have that right??

For me yeah! I wasn't sitting on my *kitten* all day eating cheetos. I counted calories and ate the "right" amount of food. I danced for many years and live a very active life. I steadily gained while eating at a deficit. I have thyroid disease, pcos, celiac, and low vitamin d. (all of which I have cured by changing my diet BTW) but during this gaining finally the light bulb went off and I started eating differently. Lo and behold I have lost nearly 50 lbs! Gasp imagine that. Not everyone has the severe hormonal crap I do, but if just one thing is off, it makes it hard to lose weight no matter what you do. So "eat less move more" isn't solving anything as far as obesity goes. Neither is low carb. There are many different factors. But for some reason, we seem to be ok calling people who can't lose weight by "eating less and moving more" lazy and stupid and noncommittal. And when someone tries low carb and sees results they are just taking part in a fad and even more dumb because its just a low calorie diet in disguise right? I take personal offense to that. I am not and never was lazy or unable to count or not able to commit. And if we aren't all "special snowflakes" then explain that one??? And all the others that lose weight for the first time when changing what they eat and not how much. I worked my butt off to lose these 50 lbs. Not in the gym, but in the kitchen and the grocery store. I changed my life for the better and I don't care what any internet forum expert says.

See bolded, but even with PCOS the energy balance equation still holds

....right....not everyone has such severe hormonal crap as me....but that still doesn't make me lazy or unable to count....whats your point?

If dieting or exercise works, why are people still fat ?

EXACTLY!!!

Riiiiight. Those dumb slovenly lazy people who can't count calories and are too lazy to work out. Yes that's it. You solved the obesity crisis in one sentence!!! Voila!

Your pointless sarcasm aside, the solution to obesity does fit in one sentence, actually just four words. Eat less, exercise more.

...Except for those of us who've busted our a**es following the "eat less, move more" (which has its own diminishing returns, btw), doing everything "right", and still saw neither the scale, nor the tape measure move.

What most people don't seem to realize is that while "eat less, move more" does work for the general population (particularly one that's used to sitting on their butts, eating Cheetos all day), there is a fair-sized portion for which that doesn't actually work for, even though those people are considered "healthy" by medical tests (good A1C, thyroid, etc results).

I'm not sure why so many low-carbers have trouble taking responsibility for themselves? Taubes made a mint telling people what they want to hear: it wasn't their fault, they didn't eat too much food, exercise is pointless... it's all the ebil, ebil food's fault.

Perhaps because for a lot of people who have gone the low-carb route, "eat less, move more" didn't work. Carbs screw with your hormones by dumping glucose into your bloodstream, causing an insulin response (yes, even "healthy" carbs do this, not just sugar). Do that enough times, with enough insulin, over a long enough period of time, and you desensitize your muscles and burn out your pancreas (not unlike how alcoholics often burn out their livers). Even for those with adequate insulin sensitivity, other hormones can make people prone to gaining weight and not being able to lose it. This is a common symptom of PCOS, which elevates testosterone in women with it, making it nearly impossible for them to lose weight. There's also growing evidence that humans in general can't handle gluten very well (ie - that gluten intolerance isn't nearly as rare as once believed), and that a good portion of the population may actually have subclinical intolerance to it, which has often been linked to a host of non-descript problems (part of what makes it so difficult to diagnose), which can directly and indirectly lead to weight gain and/or difficulty losing weight.

So yes, for some of us, it is the "ebil, ebil food's" fault.

So it is the fault of the food? Not the fault of the people who overeat the food? Do I have that right??

For me yeah! I wasn't sitting on my *kitten* all day eating cheetos. I counted calories and ate the "right" amount of food. I danced for many years and live a very active life. I steadily gained while eating at a deficit. I have thyroid disease, pcos, celiac, and low vitamin d. (all of which I have cured by changing my diet BTW) but during this gaining finally the light bulb went off and I started eating differently. Lo and behold I have lost nearly 50 lbs! Gasp imagine that. Not everyone has the severe hormonal crap I do, but if just one thing is off, it makes it hard to lose weight no matter what you do. So "eat less move more" isn't solving anything as far as obesity goes. Neither is low carb. There are many different factors. But for some reason, we seem to be ok calling people who can't lose weight by "eating less and moving more" lazy and stupid and noncommittal. And when someone tries low carb and sees results they are just taking part in a fad and even more dumb because its just a low calorie diet in disguise right? I take personal offense to that. I am not and never was lazy or unable to count or not able to commit. And if we aren't all "special snowflakes" then explain that one??? And all the others that lose weight for the first time when changing what they eat and not how much. I worked my butt off to lose these 50 lbs. Not in the gym, but in the kitchen and the grocery store. I changed my life for the better and I don't care what any internet forum expert says.

I'm glad you found what worked for you. You are a statistical outlier and not representative of the majority of people. You had to take drastic measures and you did. Kudos to you!

For many, I would even say most, it is more a matter of self control. As Acg has taught me, it's about dose and context. If most people set reasonable macro targets and calorie targets and work within them consistently, they will prosper with thier diet and health goals.

For most, the food is not the demon. If you are suggesting it is, you are generalizing from your very specific experience. Most of us can tolerate a reasonable amount of carbs just fine and then it is matter of common sense and self discipline.

So then some of us maybe juuuust maybe are "special snowflakes" after all....maybe juuuuuust maybe some of us can't work on the energy balance equation alone, which goes against what a lot of people here tout all over the place and make people who struggle to lose feel bad and dumb and lazy. Maybe juuuuust maybe there is more to it then???

Actually you can, you just have to be more mindful of certain things that effect your energy out side of the equation. Energy balance equation still holds

She notes that "maybe some of us can't work on the energy balance equation ALONE" and you said she can, being more mindful of certain things effecting your energy outside of the equation. Then that is not focusing on purely the energy balance equation alone..... are you agreeing or disagreeing?

So then some of us maybe juuuust maybe are "special snowflakes" after all....maybe juuuuuust maybe some of us can't work on the energy balance equation alone, which goes against what a lot of people here tout all over the place and make people who struggle to lose feel bad and dumb and lazy. Maybe juuuuust maybe there is more to it then???


And just a side note I actually have medically diagnosed celiac. My aunt and first cousin and grandfather have it too. I'm not one of the freaks who farts after eating a sandwich and is like "oh I'm gluten intolerant"

Yes, you would indeed be a "special snowflake." LOL! That being said, for the vast majority, there is not much more to it. If people want to do low carb and they believe that is sustainable and something that can work for them for life, great! It is just a tool. There are other tools that will get the same outcome for most. You should always read and unwritten line that says something like, " does not apply for those with unusual medical issues."

The % of people with issues like yours is very small and there are so many looking for a magic silver bullet that doesn't exist instead of doing the work of managing and controlling their diet and getting more exercise.

Carbs do behave differently, have a different glycemic effect in our bodies. this paper that was recently released examined closely three popular diets in obese individuals who had lost significant weight. i'll leave it up to you all to draw your own conclusions.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/study-challenges-the-notion-that-a-calorie-is-just-a-calorie-2012-06-26

From the article:

"Each of the study's 21 adult participants..."

HA HA HA HA HA. I'll draw my own conclusion that any scientist can show that anything with 21 people in a study. It's a pilot study, nothing to be taken as dogma.

However, it is interesting to note that the low carb diet didn't fare so well in OTHER aspects of metabolism:

" The very low-carbohydrate diet produced the greatest improvements in metabolism, but with an important caveat: This diet increased participants' cortisol levels, which can lead to insulin resistance and cardiovascular disease. The very low carbohydrate diet also raised C-reactive protein levels, which may also increase risk of cardiovascular disease."

OUCH.

Good science, bad interpretation:
http://eatingacademy.com/books-and-articles/good-science-bad-interpretation

FYI -- just another perspective on the JAMA study:
_______________________________________________________________________________

July 9, 2012
In Dieting, Magic Isn’t a Substitute for Science
By Gina Kolata (New York Times)

Is a calorie really just a calorie? Do calories from a soda have the same effect on your waistline as an equivalent number from an apple or a piece of chicken?

For decades the question has percolated among researchers — not to mention dieters. It gained new momentum with a study published last month in The Journal of the American Medical Association suggesting that after losing weight, people on a high-fat, high-protein diet burned more calories than those eating more carbohydrates.

We asked Dr. Jules Hirsch, emeritus professor and emeritus physician in chief at Rockefeller University, who has been researching obesityfor nearly 60 years, about the state of the research. Dr. Hirsch, who receives no money from pharmaceutical companies or the diet industry, wrote some of the classic papers describing why it is so hard to lose weight and why it usually comes back.

The JAMA study has gotten a lot of attention. Should people stay on diets that are high in fat and protein if they want to keep the weight off?

What they did in that study is they took 21 people and fed them a diet that made them lose about 10 to 20 percent of their weight. Then, after their weight had leveled off, they put the subjects on one of three different maintenance diets. One is very, very low in carbohydrates and high in fat, essentially the Atkins diet. Another is the opposite — high in carbohydrates, low in fat. The third is in between. Then they measured total energy expenditure — in calories burned — and resting energy expenditure.

They report that people on the Atkins diet were burning off more calories. Ergo, the diet is a good thing. Such low-carbohydrate diets usually give a more rapid initial weight loss than diets with the same amount of calories but with more carbohydrates. But when carbohydrate levels are low in a diet and fat content is high, people lose water. That can confuse attempts to measure energy output. The usual measurement is calories per unit of lean body mass — the part of the body that is not made up of fat. When water is lost, lean body mass goes down, and so calories per unit of lean body mass go up. It’s just arithmetic. There is no hocus-pocus, no advantage to the dieters. Only water, no fat, has been lost.

The paper did not provide information to know how the calculations were done, but this is a likely explanation for the result.

So the whole thing might have been an illusion? All that happened was the people temporarily lost water on the high-protein diets?

Perhaps the most important illusion is the belief that a calorie is not a calorie but depends on how much carbohydrates a person eats. There is an inflexible law of physics — energy taken in must exactly equal the number of calories leaving the system when fat storage is unchanged. Calories leave the system when food is used to fuel the body. To lower fat content — reduce obesity — one must reduce calories taken in, or increase the output by increasing activity, or both. This is true whether calories come from pumpkins or peanuts or pâté de foie gras.

To believe otherwise is to believe we can find a really good perpetual motion machine to solve our energy problems. It won’t work, and neither will changing the source of calories permit us to disobey the laws of science.

Did you ever ask whether people respond differently to diets of different compositions?

Dr. Rudolph Leibel, now an obesity researcher at Columbia University, and I took people who were of normal weight and had them live in the hospital, where we diddled with the number of calories we fed them so we could keep their weights absolutely constant, which is no easy thing. This was done with liquid diets of exactly known calorie content.

We kept the number of calories constant, always giving them the amount that should keep them at precisely the same weight. But we wildly changed the proportions of fats and carbohydrates. Some had practically no carbohydrates, and some had practically no fat.

What happened? Did people unexpectedly gain or lose weight when they had the same amount of calories but in a diet of a different composition?

No. There was zero difference between high-fat and low-fat diets.

Why is it so hard for people to lose weight?

What your body does is to sense the amount of energy it has available for emergencies and for daily use. The stored energy is the total amount of adipose tissue in your body. We now know that there are jillions of hormones that are always measuring the amount of fat you have. Your body guides you to eat more or less because of this sensing mechanism.

But if we have such a sensing mechanism, why are people fatter now than they used to be?

This wonderful sensing mechanism involves genetics and environmental factors, and it gets set early in life. It is not clear how much of the setting is done before birth and how much is done by food or other influences early in life. There are many possibilities, but we just don’t know.

So for many people, something happened early in life to set their sensing mechanism to demand more fat on their bodies?

Yes.

What would you tell someone who wanted to lose weight?

I would have them eat a lower-calorie diet. They should eat whatever they normally eat, but eat less. You must carefully measure this. Eat as little as you can get away with, and try to exercise more.

There is no magic diet, or even a moderately preferred diet?

No. Some diets are better or worse for medical reasons, but not for weight control. People come up with new diets all the time — like, why not eat pistachios at midnight when the moon is full? We have gone through so many of these diet possibilities. And yet people are always coming up to me with another one.