Everything in moderation? Really?
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You're perfectly coherent...some people are reacting like you're trying to stage an intervention or something. :bigsmile: It's a valid approach that obviously works for SOME people, nothing to get worked up about.0
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Nothing is off-limits to me. There are things that I would decide against eating, but nothing that I would say "never" to. Maybe if you have a difficult relationship with food, your attitude makes sense, but to me "everything in moderation" works just fine.
I believe my relationship with food is remarkably healthy, but *I* am the one who is in control of the relationship. I think a dietary habit with frequent "cravings" is a far more "difficult relationship".
I don't have a "relationship" with food any more than I have a "relationship" with the bed I sleep in at night. I need sleep, and the bed is a tool I use to get it. I need nutrition and fuel, and food is the tool I use to get it. I enjoy my nights more when I have a nice. comfy mattress and soft sheets, and I enjoy my meals more when the food I am eating tastes good.
Indeed. I used the word "relationship" in response to someone else using it. And I know you didn't mean to, but I think your analogy works even better for my side. It may be possible to clear the clutter out of our bed and enjoy optimal sleep. But food is a little trickier in that we don't always recognize what is and isn't clutter.
And if I haven't said it yet, I should have: the food I eat tastes absolutely delicious.0 -
And if I haven't said it yet, I should have: the food I eat tastes absolutely delicious.
To you. As well it should. Someone else may not have the same response to your diet.0 -
The only two things I don't really see as being okay in moderation are:
alcohol and soy.
they're both useless.
I have both of these most every day. Soy could be replaced by other things, but I like it and it provides nutrients I need.
Alcohol useless?? That's crazy talk. :drinker:
the protein in your soy is most likely not even being absorbed.
soy has trypsin inhibtors that block protein0 -
I find it utterly ridiculous to equate happiness with food. That is an unhealthy emotional attachment with something that can be very detrimental to one's health.
Centuries worth of cultures around the world would find your statement utterly ridiculous. Food is part of life. It's part of ritual, and family, and local custom and many other things. All throughout time people found joy through food and celebration. It wasn't until the scientist got involved that food got a bad rap.
+1
Food is about so much more than nutrients and fuel.
food is very cultural and highly political. I've also heard it dubbed as the most intimate thing we put in our bodies. (and please god I don't want to get in a conversation about that) BUT, I wish it wasn't. because food really IS just feeding our bodies. we've created it to have other meanings attached, but in the most simplistic view, it is about fuel.
so, yeah, we have a huge misunderstanding of food and it's purpose. we've romanticized this food thing far too long. I love to eat, but if there was a pill I could take to just make me feel full (like willy wonka made) and give me adequate nutrients I'd take it and it would solve so many time issues. it would solve so many world issues. would our culture suffer? oh no, the hams at easter bringing families together since 1966...I'd like to think we could evolve a more sophisticated culture than one based on what's below us on the food chain.
ok i'm rambling. 0 -
The only two things I don't really see as being okay in moderation are:
alcohol and soy.
they're both useless.
I have both of these most every day. Soy could be replaced by other things, but I like it and it provides nutrients I need.
Alcohol useless?? That's crazy talk. :drinker:
the protein in your soy is most likely not even being absorbed.
soy has trypsin inhibtors that block protein
Spinach has oxalate that inhibits abosorption of the calcium in it and I still eat it, too. I'm crazy like that.0 -
And if I haven't said it yet, I should have: the food I eat tastes absolutely delicious.
To you. As well it should. Someone else may not have the same response to your diet.
I'm not asking others to adopt my diet. I'm asking that others may want to consider adopting a similar approach to theirs.
And these foods that taste awesome to me now? Didn't taste quite as good when I was still indulging in the foods I no longer eat. Am I saying that everyone has to stop eating certain foods now? Obviously, no, but just sharing one of the benefits of this approach that I was not aware of when I started down this path.
An example of this is dark chocolate. First time I tried 73%, I thought it was disgustingly bitter. (Then I tried 100% which *is* disgustingly bitter...(hey now, simmer down, 100% chocolate lovers, I'm just kidding...kind of)). So I occasionally ate some 60%...and then strangely, that started tasting too sweet...so I switched to 73%...and the same thing happened there...so now I eat 85%, and yup, same thing is happening there too. Now sure, sweetness preference isn't entirely consistent with level of taste, but I believe there are some parallels.
And given an overly simplistic choice between a path that leads to truly believing a McDonald's Big Mac tastes awesome and a path that leads to truly believing that baked salmon with fresh veggies and fruit tastes awesome, well, I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.0 -
I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.
Good for you. Good for them.0 -
And given an overly simplistic choice between a path that leads to truly believing a McDonald's Big Mac tastes awesome and a path that leads to truly believing that baked salmon with fresh veggies and fruit tastes awesome, well, I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.
I like both.
But I'm not out here busting anyones balls posting threads like "I hate people who don't have cheat meals".0 -
But I'm not out here busting anyones balls posting threads like "I hate people who don't have cheat meals".
Yeah, me neither.0 -
That some foods are processed to the point that they don't really seem like food anymore and the only reason you *think* they taste good is because you are conditioned to believe they taste good?
I'm going to admit that I didn't read the whole thread, but can you explain this statement if you haven't already? If you have, sorry in advance.
I think stuff tastes good because I think it tastes good. How is anyone conditioned to believe that something tastes good? I'm honestly baffled.0 -
And given an overly simplistic choice between a path that leads to truly believing a McDonald's Big Mac tastes awesome and a path that leads to truly believing that baked salmon with fresh veggies and fruit tastes awesome, well, I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.
This doesn't sound anything like your OP. What does enjoying the taste of salmon, veggies and fruit have to do with not eating other things in moderation? I love salmon, love most veggies, and many fruits. That doesn't stop me from enjoying a piece of cake at an occasional wedding or birthday party. Nor does enjoying that piece of cake make me fat or ruin my health.0 -
That some foods are processed to the point that they don't really seem like food anymore and the only reason you *think* they taste good is because you are conditioned to believe they taste good?
I'm going to admit that I didn't read the whole thread, but can you explain this statement if you haven't already? If you have, sorry in advance.
I think stuff tastes good because I think it tastes good. How is anyone conditioned to believe that something tastes good? I'm honestly baffled.
This is another one of those "in my experience" things. For example, I used to love...*LOVE* frosted brown sugar cinnamon poptarts. De-frickin'-licious. After having cut the flours and added sugars and artificial flavorings from my diet for a while, I took a bite of one of these incredibly awesome foods and...ugh. So overpoweringly sugary and the flavor was so...(unnatural? chemical?)...just not good. Similar thing with other foods. Foods that I once thought were delicious, once I stopped eating them (and others like them) for a long period of time, were no longer tasty to me.
And I am not currently in a "lose" state of my diet, so I certainly have room for the calories if I want to partake of these foods. It's just that this time, for whatever reason, I do not want to. This differs from times in my life before when I followed the EIM approach and never stopped craving them. I would build my calories around them one today, and then find myself building my calories around something else the next day. My day was consumed with when I was going to get my next hit of instantly satisfying food...
Eh, at this point, I'm probably just repeating things I've said earlier in this thread. So I'll repeat my (latest version of my) summary: there is another path available besides EIM that may work for you. And it may not. But it just might be worth considering the potential benefits of exploring it.0 -
And given an overly simplistic choice between a path that leads to truly believing a McDonald's Big Mac tastes awesome and a path that leads to truly believing that baked salmon with fresh veggies and fruit tastes awesome, well, I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.
This doesn't sound anything like your OP. What does enjoying the taste of salmon, veggies and fruit have to do with not eating other things in moderation? I love salmon, love most veggies, and many fruits. That doesn't stop me from enjoying a piece of cake at an occasional wedding or birthday party. Nor does enjoying that piece of cake make me fat or ruin my health.
Because I believe that indulging in certain foods (which likely differ by individual) may be derailing some people from reaching their goals.0 -
EIM worked for me.
I've never had "trigger foods" or problems with binge eating. I don't think of food in terms of good or bad. I gained weight simply because I ate too much of everything - from blueberries to boneless, skinless chicken breast to pizza and ice cream.
I lost the 50 pounds I wanted to lose (plus 13 extra 'bonus' pounds) easily and painlessly by just cutting back on portion sizes and watching my overall calories. I figured out my TDEE and subtracted 250 calories a day from that. This meant I ate about 2000-2400 calories a day. I lost about a pound and a half a week (much faster than I expected with the small calorie cut I made) and hit my goal in less than a year.
I ate lots of different foods - oatmeal, yogurt, pancakes, donuts, bacon, fruit, salads, pizza, lasagna, buffalo wings, cupcakes, ice cream, cookies, chicken breast, brown rice, steaks, baked potatoes, carrots, broccoli, fried chicken, spinach, cheeseburgers, air popped popcorn, french fries - you get the point...
(Edited to Add - I've been maintaining this way for over six months now. So far, the maintenance has been as trouble-free as the initial weight loss)0 -
Everything in moderation. Including moderation. Too much moderation can be bad for you. You need some excess once in a while.0
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And given an overly simplistic choice between a path that leads to truly believing a McDonald's Big Mac tastes awesome and a path that leads to truly believing that baked salmon with fresh veggies and fruit tastes awesome, well, I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.
This doesn't sound anything like your OP. What does enjoying the taste of salmon, veggies and fruit have to do with not eating other things in moderation? I love salmon, love most veggies, and many fruits. That doesn't stop me from enjoying a piece of cake at an occasional wedding or birthday party. Nor does enjoying that piece of cake make me fat or ruin my health.
Because I believe that indulging in certain foods (which likely differ by individual) may be derailing some people from reaching their goals.
Is it the indulging or the overindulging?0 -
I think if someone's going to take the superior foodie and clean eater position they need to do a little better than supermarket chocolate and mass market butter. Tbh, my idea of a good meal is a whole bunch of offal, bread, and at least one "complimentary" palate cleanser. I also enjoy a good chicken schnitz or a pie (entrails and hoofs!) at the footy. And you know what? Airline food is freaking awesome. I don't care what class it is; from risotto and giant prawns in business to a tray of unidentifiable meat while cramped in economy. Oh, and the way some lounges have these really downmarket canapes with wilting chives as garnish... magic. It all has its place. There's a Russian restaurant near me that I'm dying to visit, and apparently one of the dishes is... get this... a whole bunch of cooked and raw vegetables mixed together with supermarket mayonnaise and chopped processed meat. You'd better believe that sucker is going to get in my tummy sometime in the next month or so.
For me a big part of life is enjoying myself, and enjoying other people's company, over good food. Whether that be splitting a hot dog for a quick post-theatre supper, chomping my way through the best in condensed milk and fried bread that KL has to offer, or just kicking back with oysters, cheap white bread and plenty of beer on a hot day. I've tried cutting all that out and only managed to alienate friends and family with my absolutely mad eating style. Why inconvenience others because I'm incapable of saying to myself "no, you will not eat half a loaf of bread and butter with your slimy shellfish"? Why hurt myself by missing out on the fun? I'd rather learn to enjoy all these things in moderation than declare war on a loaf of squishy, preservative-laden, nutritionally bankrupt bread.0 -
I think if someone's going to take the superior foodie and clean eater position they need to do a little better than supermarket chocolate and mass market butter. Tbh, my idea of a good meal is a whole bunch of offal, bread, and at least one "complimentary" palate cleanser. I also enjoy a good chicken schnitz or a pie (entrails and hoofs!) at the footy. And you know what? Airline food is freaking awesome. I don't care what class it is; from risotto and giant prawns in business to a tray of unidentifiable meat while cramped in economy. Oh, and the way some lounges have these really downmarket canapes with wilting chives as garnish... magic. It all has its place. There's a Russian restaurant near me that I'm dying to visit, and apparently one of the dishes is... get this... a whole bunch of cooked and raw vegetables mixed together with supermarket mayonnaise and chopped processed meat. You'd better believe that sucker is going to get in my tummy sometime in the next month or so.
For me a big part of life is enjoying myself, and enjoying other people's company, over good food. Whether that be splitting a hot dog for a quick post-theatre supper, chomping my way through the best in condensed milk and fried bread that KL has to offer, or just kicking back with oysters, cheap white bread and plenty of beer on a hot day. I've tried cutting all that out and only managed to alienate friends and family with my absolutely mad eating style. Why inconvenience others because I'm incapable of saying to myself "no, you will not eat half a loaf of bread and butter with your slimy shellfish"? Why hurt myself by missing out on the fun? I'd rather learn to enjoy all these things in moderation than declare war on a loaf of squishy, preservative-laden, nutritionally bankrupt bread.
Nice story*, but I think you missed the point. (If it's any solace, you aren't the first to use this opportunity to share your food-centered lifestyle with the group.) My post was about a possible alternative to EIM to make effective changes to dietary habits. I'm sorry to hear that your initial attempts at making better food choices resulted in alienating friends and family. I would say that you didn't do it right, but I don't really know the whole story. I will say that I have not experienced any problems whatsoever in my network of friends and family, but our relationships have never been that strongly dictated by or centered around food. Perhaps *I* am the one that has been doing it wrong.
So how did you get "superior foodie" from my posts or my food diary? My open food diary should make it very clear that I am most certainly not (or if I am, I don't realize it yet...and I'm not a very good one either). My food diary should be make it very obvious that I have a rather simple palate. Given your jab at "supermarket chocolate" and "mass market butter", I suppose you already looked at that though. I haven't found an 85%+ chocolate that I like better than Green & Black's 85%. If you have any recommendations (and surely you do), I'm all ears; similarly for the "mass market butter", although I am currently very comfortable with the nutritional profile of the Kerrygold butter that I enjoy so often now.
(* or as the younger generation might say, "cool story, bro."0 -
And given an overly simplistic choice between a path that leads to truly believing a McDonald's Big Mac tastes awesome and a path that leads to truly believing that baked salmon with fresh veggies and fruit tastes awesome, well, I'm just letting people know that this latter path exists and that some people have found success on it.
This doesn't sound anything like your OP. What does enjoying the taste of salmon, veggies and fruit have to do with not eating other things in moderation? I love salmon, love most veggies, and many fruits. That doesn't stop me from enjoying a piece of cake at an occasional wedding or birthday party. Nor does enjoying that piece of cake make me fat or ruin my health.
Because I believe that indulging in certain foods (which likely differ by individual) may be derailing some people from reaching their goals.
Is it the indulging or the overindulging?
I think both sides of this can agree that "overindulging" is probably not optimal. My (clearly unpopular) position is that by not indulging at all, some may find that they are then able to stay "on plan" and no longer have issues with cravings for certain foods. It's just an alternative approach to a problem with which it seems many people struggle.0
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