Gary Taubes

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  • BrandonDoom
    BrandonDoom Posts: 64 Member
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    As for people spontaneously reducing calories when cutting carbs, I haven't seen any real evidence of that, other than proponents of low carb diets making the claim.

    Here's an old study that was to hand - http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/reprint/23/7/948

    770 calories less per day on an "ad lib" but low carb eating regime.

    Certainly worked that way in my family, taking away the potato / fries / pasta / bread and replacing with an additional vegetable took a wack out of the calories and the carbs for the same protein portions. Earlier I was discussing with a guy on Atkins induction (265 lbs) that he was full yesterday but only ate 950 calories.

    Taking away one of the three groups of macronutrients, and one of the two with no limit on useful consumption, is very likely to reduce intake. "But what do I eat" came the cry.

    The study had 11 people in it. That's a really small sample size and definitely not large enough to reach any conclusions.

    And your argument is even weaker!!! So what If it was 11? It was results! Proven! Atkins was in the same line of work and treated 10,000 people. That not enough for you? Keep eating grains and pile on the weight.
  • pitbullmama
    pitbullmama Posts: 454 Member
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    Too much info to process at one time. Bumping for later
  • BoydLabBuck
    BoydLabBuck Posts: 16 Member
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    If you read all the posts to this point you have more patience than me.

    Taubes is either loved or hated. Personally I think he's brought a lot of value to my own nutritional knowledge, and it has paid off.

    Ultimately though, Mark Sisson >>>> Gary Taubes. I read Mark's stuff daily.
  • TheVimFuego
    TheVimFuego Posts: 2,412 Member
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    If you read all the posts to this point you have more patience than me.

    Taubes is either loved or hated. Personally I think he's brought a lot of value to my own nutritional knowledge, and it has paid off.

    Ultimately though, Mark Sisson >>>> Gary Taubes. I read Mark's stuff daily.

    Indeed so, I can't be arsed to read the ebb and flow of the Taubes debate but I can say the results (g)rok ;)

    My reading started with 'Good Calories, Bad Calories' and I'm very grateful for it, it made me question everything I thought I knew about nutrition and encouraged me to investigate further.
  • BrandonDoom
    BrandonDoom Posts: 64 Member
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    If you read all the posts to this point you have more patience than me.

    Taubes is either loved or hated. Personally I think he's brought a lot of value to my own nutritional knowledge, and it has paid off.

    Ultimately though, Mark Sisson >>>> Gary Taubes. I read Mark's stuff daily.

    Absolutely. Sisson over taubes. But taubes is still great.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    If you read all the posts to this point you have more patience than me.

    Taubes is either loved or hated. Personally I think he's brought a lot of value to my own nutritional knowledge, and it has paid off.

    Ultimately though, Mark Sisson >>>> Gary Taubes. I read Mark's stuff daily.

    Absolutely. Sisson over taubes. But taubes is still great.

    Picking between reading Taubes or Sisson is like choosing between getting punched in the face or kicked in the crotch, both choices suck
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    As
    Certainly worked that way in my family, taking away the potato / fries / pasta / bread and replacing with an additional vegetable took a wack out of the calories and the carbs for the same protein portions.

    so you replaced moderately high calorie sources with lower calorie foods and you lost weight, do think this was more to do with the reduction in carbs specifically or reduction in overall calories.
    The whole "insulin spiking" argument that people like Taubes make does not make sense. Protein "spikes" insulin also, not just carbohydrates while fat does not acutally "spike" insulin.

    That is absolutely incorrect on so many levels. But hey I'm allowed to say you're wrong once because it's all you have been doing on this thread. Ya "protein" spikes insulin? No. Sorry. High glycemic index carbs spike insulin like your favorite pastas and bread. Protein has very little effect on insulin response. Low carb has been a savior to diabetes and Even heart disease. Anything you put into your body has an effect on insulin. It's about what you put into it that spikes it. This stuff is more successful for overweight people as far as weight loss goes. Not like you and some of the genetic smaller dudes that have probably never been too overweight.

    Just, no.
  • TheVimFuego
    TheVimFuego Posts: 2,412 Member
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    Picking between reading Taubes or Sisson is like choosing between getting punched in the face or kicked in the crotch, both choices suck

    Oh my, I didn't realise we had the reincarnation of Oscar Wilde in our midst!

    How thee wit doth slay me!

    Such reasoned debate, tell me another kind minstrel.
  • BrandonDoom
    BrandonDoom Posts: 64 Member
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    As
    Certainly worked that way in my family, taking away the potato / fries / pasta / bread and replacing with an additional vegetable took a wack out of the calories and the carbs for the same protein portions.

    so you replaced moderately high calorie sources with lower calorie foods and you lost weight, do think this was more to do with the reduction in carbs specifically or reduction in overall calories.
    The whole "insulin spiking" argument that people like Taubes make does not make sense. Protein "spikes" insulin also, not just carbohydrates while fat does not acutally "spike" insulin.

    That is absolutely incorrect on so many levels. But hey I'm allowed to say you're wrong once because it's all you have been doing on this thread. Ya "protein" spikes insulin? No. Sorry. High glycemic index carbs spike insulin like your favorite pastas and bread. Protein has very little effect on insulin response. Low carb has been a savior to diabetes and Even heart disease. Anything you put into your body has an effect on insulin. It's about what you put into it that spikes it. This stuff is more successful for overweight people as far as weight loss goes. Not like you and some of the genetic smaller dudes that have probably never been too overweight.

    Just, no.

    No. Just know. Before you act like a nutrition god spewing that your way is correct and everyone is wrong. Please prove to me that protein spikes your insulin like carbs do. I PROMISE you it doesn't. A GI of a bowl of oatmeal is way higher than eggs. A potato has a way higher GI than a steak. But I'm wrong. Because you say so.
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    No. Just know. Before you act like a nutrition god spewing that your way is correct and everyone is wrong. Please prove to me that protein spikes your insulin like carbs do. I PROMISE you it doesn't. A GI of a bowl of oatmeal is way higher than eggs. A potato has a way higher GI than a steak. But I'm wrong. Because you say so.

    http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/?page_id=319

    Thanks.

    you should also have a good look at the way the glycemic index was actually put together. Makes some interesting reading.

    http://alanaragon.com/glycemic-index

    here is a good video if you don't fancy reading

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYqCLteXwMA
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    "A number representing the ability of a food, relative to that of glucose, to increase the level of glucose in the blood." as per definition.

    Do you eat all of your carbs in a fasted state on their own without any protein or fats...........? If not you can forget GI.
  • jtakingcareofherself
    jtakingcareofherself Posts: 144 Member
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    I agree with Gary Taubes in that the simplification of "calories in/calories out" theory is not correct. Humans are complicated biological machines with many hormonal processes and control systems. There is also a lot of variability in each of us due to genetics, lifestyle, and personal interests and ability to self-experiment and self-monitor. Insulin (and hence fast sugars) have a huge impact on our hormonal processes. People enjoy the "calories in/calories out" theory because it is simple to understand. Most people do not have the background in biology and biochemistry that is necessary to understand the complex biological processes in play, so they get onto the "calories in/calories out" bandwagon. Most people also do not read books on nutrition or biology, and skim a few internet articles, and think they know what they are talking about. Bottom line is that if you have lost weight without losing lean mass (ie lost adipose tissue) and maintained it for an extended period of time, without feeling deprived and stressed about food or your lifestyle, and you love your body and you feel healthy - you have been successful!
  • SocWkrBee
    SocWkrBee Posts: 374
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    Pretty much, you want to cover the essential macros first, Fat and Protein. How much you need is extremely variable person to person based on basal metabolic rate, activity, athletic performance, diseases, etc. Once these are figured out, then you fiddle around with carbohydrates based on how much of a calorie surplus or deficit you want and your average daily activity level.

    Let's say I want a 250kcal deficit, after figuring out my protein and fat requirements, I have 250 kcal left to reach my maintenance. I then figure I will burn 500 kcal from walking 1 hour (now 750 kcal from maintenance and 500 kcal from my goal deficit). I have 500kcal to reach my goal, so I eat 125g carbohydrates to reach my goal. Alternatively, I could just forgoe exercise altogether and eat no carbohydrates, but still reach my calorie deficit goal. Ideally, your calories from burnt from exercise should match the calories you eat from carbohydrates since carbohydrates are the easiest macro to convert into energy. This approach is what is used for people in fitness/modeling/bodybuilders/etc.

    I am sure with some research, you might be able to find specific macros for protein and fat based on needs (medical conditions). That's where the whole keto-diet came from - originally catered for people with seizures.

    Going low/no carb will cause exercise performance to suffer but is perfectly fine on days where your activity is low/minimum.

    There are lots of responses on here, that I have not read. However, this seems to be the most fair assessment.
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    And is there anyway something with a low GI might have a high insulin response?
    Nope.

    It's called Milk.

    I note you haven't commented on my response to your claim protein doesn't raise insulin?
  • Sidesteal
    Sidesteal Posts: 5,510 Member
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  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    And is there anyway something with a low GI might have a high insulin response?

    Nope. I eat all my carbs from veggies and fruit. I have cheats here and there but I almost always regret it. I have a banana and oatmeal and my heart pounds. Not saying low carb is the end all be all diet for everyone. Just popping in because there are so many claims and links to back your guys statements up. That's great I can post links all say long expressing how awful grains are and studies on it. Hell go to pub med. plenty of studies proven. Go to dr eades website.

    Lol Eades

    Here to get you started, and guess what your assertion that oats have a much higher insulin response then eggs? Might want to look into that again.

    Inconsistency between glycemic and insulinemic responses to regular and fermented milk products
    http://www.ajcn.org/content/74/1/96.full
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    Picking between reading Taubes or Sisson is like choosing between getting punched in the face or kicked in the crotch, both choices suck

    Oh my, I didn't realise we had the reincarnation of Oscar Wilde in our midst!

    How thee wit doth slay me!

    Such reasoned debate, tell me another kind minstrel.

    And if you noticed the people that say to read Taubes and Sisson and the such tend to ignorant statements like we've seen in this thread. If they were good sources, don't you think they wouldn't get simple things wrong?
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
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    LOL, these last couple pages have been epic. Gotta love it when a bunch of Taubes arguin' vets mix it up was a brash Taubes lovin' noob.
    Picking between reading Taubes or Sisson is like choosing between getting punched in the face or kicked in the crotch, both choices suck

    Such a great quote.
  • carld256
    carld256 Posts: 855 Member
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    Certifiably wrong as hell? Hmmm. Right. Since you are a nutritionist. Go ahead buddy, tell us how he is wrong and you're right.

    Taubes isn't a nutritionist either, or any sort of scientist, doctor, or in-fact have any training in any medical field.
  • Bob314159
    Bob314159 Posts: 1,178 Member
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    I lost weight with Gary Taubes - I listened to his audio while walking