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stroutman81

I've done these in the past around here and they turned out to be big hits. I have some spare time today and figured it has been awhile since I've done one here. So let's do it.

Preferably your questions are general in nature. I really don't want to get into looking at specific programming questions for individual cases as this really isn't the proper venue for that.

Don't be shy!

ninerbuff

Good to see you bro! I need to find a couple of your threads to nominate as sticky's again.

I'd like to know what's your approach to teaching a newbie on how to progress to do a full body weight pull up if they've never done one before. Insight from others in the biz is how I like to learn.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

WalkingAlong

Hey Steve! Any thoughts on alternate day fasting?

kgeyser

I saw the title of this thread and thought "oh great, another weight loss expert post from someone who's been here a week" and then I saw "stroutman81" and said "oh hells yes!"

Hi Steve! I'd like to get your thoughts on something I know some of the ladies here are struggling with, at least the ones on my FL and groups. Many of us have reached the point where we are at a healthy weight and are just trying to lower BF% (within 5-10 lbs of goal). We're all following the standard advice for recomp: lift heavy, lots of protein, eat at a slight deficit.

Everyone knows recomp is a painfully slow process anyway, but the frustration many of us are having is that We. Are. Hungry. And not only are we hungry, but lifting heavy on a deficit gets to you after awhile and you hit a wall with your progress. I've seen some people mention recomping while eating at maintenance - I am curious as to whether this is more beneficial or whether the recomp process would slow even more, or if there is something else you would recommend as far as training or diet that we should incorporate. Thanks!

Raclex

ninerbuff wrote: »

Good to see you bro! I need to find a couple of your threads to nominate as sticky's again.

I'd like to know what's your approach to teaching a newbie on how to progress to do a full body weight pull up if they've never done one before. Insight from others in the biz is how I like to learn.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I second this question

stroutman81

ninerbuff wrote: »

Good to see you bro! I need to find a couple of your threads to nominate as sticky's again.

Good to see you too! I'm hoping to get on here a bit more. Which won't be hard since I've been a complete stranger as of late. And from what I remember, they weren't willing to sticky a lot of those old threads... MFP wasn't big on stickies. Is that different now?

I'd like to know what's your approach to teaching a newbie on how to progress to do a full body weight pull up if they've never done one before. Insight from others in the biz is how I like to learn.

Absolutely! Talking shop with other pros has been a huge part of my education process.

My go to for progressing to full body weight pull-ups is bands. I actually use this with my clients at my gym and it's awesome:

http://www.amazon.com/Lifeline-4-PUR-Pullup-Revolution/dp/B003KNC1MO

Of course it depends on starting point. If it's someone who's overweight, I'm going to focus on fat loss before considering the exercise.

And if it's someone who's never really trained before, I'm going to focus on rows and pulldowns before doing any assisted pull-ups. Once there's a semblance of baseline strength in place, I'll generally move to a combo of eccentric pull-ups and band assisted pull-ups.

I'm also an advocate of doing them frequently. It's the best way to get better at something. Often times I'll have them do pull-ups 2-4 times per week. As their strength improves, I'll have them start their first set with no assistance and ride that until they fail. Then I'll bring in assistance.

As with most everything else... it's a matter of finding the baseline from which progressive overload needs to start from.

andylllI

I second the recomp question.

stroutman81

WalkingAlong wrote: »

Hey Steve! Any thoughts on alternate day fasting?

Not really. It wouldn't be my first option if I were going to have someone experiment with IF.

stroutman81

MrM27 wrote: »

Steve!!!! Good to see you brother. I will be following this thread very closely. Hopefully people ask you some good questions.

Likewise. Of course I started the thread and than hopped onto a video chat. Back now though.

yankeedownsouth

Just wanted to say, Hi Steve!

ljashley1952

Hi, any ideas for workouts I can do in my house on days when I cannot get out? I'm looking at a long winter and I don't have a gym membership. I'm used to walking and biking, but will soon not be able to do much of that. I can do light yoga and lift hand weights. Mine are 5 pounds. I'm open to ideas, tv workouts, videos, internet workouts, whatever...just so I get some exercise on a daily basis.

stroutman81

kgeyser wrote: »

I saw the title of this thread and thought "oh great, another weight loss expert post from someone who's been here a week" and then I saw "stroutman81" and said "oh hells yes!"

Hi Steve! I'd like to get your thoughts on something I know some of the ladies here are struggling with, at least the ones on my FL and groups. Many of us have reached the point where we are at a healthy weight and are just trying to lower BF% (within 5-10 lbs of goal). We're all following the standard advice for recomp: lift heavy, lots of protein, eat at a slight deficit.

Everyone knows recomp is a painfully slow process anyway, but the frustration many of us are having is that We. Are. Hungry. And not only are we hungry, but lifting heavy on a deficit gets to you after awhile and you hit a wall with your progress. I've seen some people mention recomping while eating at maintenance - I am curious as to whether this is more beneficial or whether the recomp process would slow even more, or if there is something else you would recommend as far as training or diet that we should incorporate. Thanks!

Haha! I was wondering how many people would read the title and think "spam" or "guru."

Excellent question!

This stage in the process can be very trying. Up until now, you could measure progress partially by way of the scale. Even when there's more fat to lose, I still suggest relying on measurements and pictures too. But again, the scale is still helping paint the trend you're heading in.

Once you're a relatively lean female trying to get leaner though... the scale goes out the window. Seriously. I've taken women to the leanest levels they've ever been... to leanness that allows them to see their abs... and even on a monthly basis the scale can be totally irrelevant in terms of what's happening with fat and muscle.

The leaner you get, especially as a female, the more sensitive your bodies get from a stress response perspective. Wonky stuff can and likely will happen with water balance and once you factor water flux into the equation... in the context of very minor tissue mass adjustments over the course of a month to begin with.... the scale just poops the bed as far as reliability goes.

This fact right here has been the slayer of *most* progress for lean women trying to get leaner. They're patient... but not patient enough. They'll push it hard for a month or whatever... but eventually they cave and it typically entails - at a minimum - some off time from the calorie deficit. More often than not though it entails binges. This is fueled by a whole lot of complex machinery under the hood that impacts physiological and psychological drive to eat. And pair that machinery with other things that often accompany these women (not you, speaking generally here) such as a poor relationship with their body and/or food, faulty expectations, a desire to program hop, etc and, again, you have a recipe for a lack of patience and emotional volatility.

And when you're tiny, there's just not a heck of a lot of room to wiggle. It's like we all live in cardboard boxes. The bigger we are, the bigger our boxes tend to be. These boxes represent calorie capacity. As you lose weight, your box shrinks. Before long, you're left with very little room to move around. After a period of time, you wind up going crazy and break right through the cardboard walls.

Going beyond the walls means increasing calories and when you do that, your box starts to get bigger again. And thus the viscous cycle ensues.

Take me for example. I'm 195 lbs with a maintenance intake of roughly 3250 cals/day. I have a 110 lb female client who has a maintenance of approximately 1500 calories. She can't build a big enough deficit to expect anything more than maybe a pound or two per month. And that's assuming her body doesn't get watery in response to a deficit and it's assuming she's REALLY damn consistent and accurate.

The slightest deviations can very easily close some of that deficit thus causing an even slower rate of fat loss.

So horse = beat.

Sorry about that.

That's the crux of the problem for the vast majority. I can't stress this enough and I know for a fact that a number of women reading this are going to think to themselves, "Not me." But I'm also certain that some of you thinking that are wrong.

It boils down to the process getting slower and slower as it goes along and progress concurrently get harder and harder to come by. Read that twice.

If that's not you, though, maybe you're NOT in the deficit that you think you are. Some people need to eat fewer calories than they feel is safe or optimal for their size. Maybe you're someone who needs a bunch of cardio on top of your deficit, which is very unfortunate. I've had clients who've had to go as low as 8 or so cals/lb with near daily low intensity cardio in order to lean out. Or maybe you need to start experimenting with some form of cyclic approach where carbs are being undulated across the week in ketogenic/refeed fashion (which can potentially offset some of the defensive machinery discussed above thereby minimizing food seeking, hunger, and potential metabolic decline.

It's already getting very long in the tooth though so I'll stop there and let you comment before we continue the discussion.

stroutman81

andylllI wrote: »

I second the recomp question.

Oh, and this second-ing reminded me about a couple of other things I wanted to address.

First the maintenance part of your question...

In my experience I don't ever find recomp happening at maintenance. At lean states, the body is very hesitant to let go of fat and/or add muscle. Calorie manipulation is the key that slowly opens either of these doors. Maintenance is akin to putting the key in the door but never turning it.

I don't think maintenance is your answer.

Another thing I'll have a number of my clients utilize is iterations of Lyle McDonald's stubborn fat protocols. I've had a lot of luck with them in certain situations.

stroutman81

yankeedownsouth wrote: »

Just wanted to say, Hi Steve!

Well if it's not one of my favorite people!

Hi Dawn.

stroutman81

celestlyn wrote: »

Hi, any ideas for workouts I can do in my house on days when I cannot get out? I'm looking at a long winter and I don't have a gym membership. I'm used to walking and biking, but will soon not be able to do much of that. I can do light yoga and lift hand weights. Mine are 5 pounds. I'm open to ideas, tv workouts, videos, internet workouts, whatever...just so I get some exercise on a daily basis.

Exercise for what? Specificity is king when it comes to deciding what type and dose of exercise to do. If you're just looking to burn calories and maintain conditioning... pretty much anything that gets you moving for 20-60 minutes can work.

But if you're looking for more specific stuff like strength, muscle growth/preservation, etc than the approach needs to be a lot more deliberate.

SkepticalOwl

Hi Steve,

I also thought, ugh, another Beachbody "coach" or something when I saw the thread title and then saw your name and was (to channel my 11 year old daughter), like, OMG, I hope he's still here! LOL.

I saw your response to the question about recomp for already quite lean women and I was wondering what you think about bulking. I just dipped below the healthy end of the BMI range for my height in the process of trying to reverse diet and get to maintenance. The problem is that I started the cut so I could see my abs and I can't see them, though my arms are ripped (or maybe they're more bony, actually). I got some good advice on the Eat, Train, Progress Group, and am planning to bulk and lift heavy as a result, but since you're here I thought I'd ask your opinion about what to do. My stats are 43 years old, F, 5'7", 117 lbs as of today (I'm still losing 1-2 lbs per week on 1650 cals/day, and I really don't want to lose any more). I run quite a bit because I like it and have been trying to lift to maintain muscle mass but that hasn't been going as well as I had hoped. Current plan is to go with SL, cut down on the cardio some by scaling back my long run and doing more interval training so I'll at least be faster for the spring season, and up my intake to gain about 1/2 lb/week. Does this sound reasonable?

Thanks!

stroutman81

SkepticalOwl wrote: »

Hi Steve,

I also thought, ugh, another Beachbody "coach" or something when I saw the thread title and then saw your name and was (to channel my 11 year old daughter), like, OMG, I hope he's still here! LOL.

LOL! I should really rethink my thread title next time.

I saw your response to the question about recomp for already quite lean women and I was wondering what you think about bulking.

I think bulking is fun. More food. More volume. More strength.

I just dipped below the healthy end of the BMI range for my height in the process of trying to reverse diet and get to maintenance. The problem is that I started the cut so I could see my abs and I can't see them, though my arms are ripped (or maybe they're more bony, actually). I got some good advice on the Eat, Train, Progress Group, and am planning to bulk and lift heavy as a result, but since you're here I thought I'd ask your opinion about what to do. My stats are 43 years old, F, 5'7", 117 lbs as of today (I'm still losing 1-2 lbs per week on 1650 cals/day, and I really don't want to lose any more). I run quite a bit because I like it and have been trying to lift to maintain muscle mass but that hasn't been going as well as I had hoped. Current plan is to go with SL, cut down on the cardio some by scaling back my long run and doing more interval training so I'll at least be faster for the spring season, and up my intake to gain about 1/2 lb/week. Does this sound reasonable?

Couple of things...

1. Some women just aren't genetically geared to see their abs... either due to the structure of their ab muscles or the distribution pattern of their fat.

2. Related to #2... pretty much everyone can reach a level of leanness where you can see their abs... but at what cost? Strongly related to #1... in order for someone such as yourself to get lean enough, it might mean losing too much weight elsewhere.

3. I think you have to ask yourself what seeing your abs means to you. I currently do NOT have a defined 6 pack and I'm as happy as a clam. I'm willing to compromise a shredded midsection in favor of more lifestyle-friendly nutrition.

4. If you don't have a base of muscle that's large enough to give you the shape you're looking for at lean levels, then yes, your only option is to go through a phase focused on muscle growth. I'd do this very slowly. Very. Systematically too, which I assume you're doing. If you're following the advice of the folks over at ETP, I'm sure you're in good hands. They be some smart peeps. If it were me though, I'd be looking for that caloric sweet spot that allows me to put a pound or so on per month initially. That rate would actually drop off after a bit to maybe something like .25-.5 per pound. Muscle growth is SLOW. Real slow. Especially in ladies.

You're currently at roughly 14 cals/lb. That's the bottom end of the maintenance range for most people. That you run a lot likely means you're closer to the upper end of the range. For your reference, the range tends to be 14-16 cals/lb. In practice, with women, I've found it to be closer to 13-15 more often than not... but you get the point.

But systematically ramp cals up every couple of weeks based on what's happening with the scale and measurements.

5. What's a lot of running? I'm sure you know a lot of running can be counter to the adaptations you're shooting for in the muscle department.

SkepticalOwl

Thanks so much for the response! I've been tracking my input and weight daily for about a month and a half and using rolling 7-day averages for the weight I think my TDEE is between 2200 and 2300, so to gain .25 lb/week I'd eat about 2450-2550 assuming my current level of activity. I could cut back my cardio to decrease this, of course. The problem with that is I just really enjoy it, so I may need to decide how important the six pack is to me after all, which you already mentioned.

All that aside, though. Is SL a good choice for my purposes or is there something else you'd recommend? And would you add accessories- I'm thinking specifically pull-ups.

Thanks again!

andylllI

Thanks for your response. If I understand it correctly the answer is to be patient and consistent and only anticipate slow results.

A relate question: I get lost in the advice to lift heavy etc for women looking to become leaner. I'm a climber and I want to get the best strength to weight ratio possible. Is there different advice for gym workouts compared to someone that wants to be fit and have a nice physique or, in your opinion is this just a variation on the "don't be afraid to lift heavy ladies you won't get bulky." FYI I'm 36, 5'7" 144 lbs and 20% bf by calipers.

stroutman81

SkepticalOwl wrote: »

Thanks so much for the response! I've been tracking my input and weight daily for about a month and a half and using rolling 7-day averages for the weight I think my TDEE is between 2200 and 2300, so to gain .25 lb/week I'd eat about 2450-2550 assuming my current level of activity. I could cut back my cardio to decrease this, of course. The problem with that is I just really enjoy it, so I may need to decide how important the six pack is to me after all, which you already mentioned.

All that aside, though. Is SL a good choice for my purposes or is there something else you'd recommend? And would you add accessories- I'm thinking specifically pull-ups.

Thanks again!

That's a damn high TDEE! But again, if your mileage is way the hell up there... it's understandable.

As for the running, this whole process of deciding how to exercise is littered with compromises. We speak in terms of what's optimal for getting lean while maintaining muscle. But that path of optimality isn't always a best-fit for someone based on their preferences. And at the end of the day, if optimal isn't sustainable... or even if it's disliked because of either what you're doing or not doing... is it really optimal?

So you have to do you... and as long as you're willing to live with the consequences and compromises, then have at it.

As for strong lifts... I haven't looked at it in forever. I just don't look at a lot of the popular stuff out there. But if you're going to be bulking, I'd much sooner do something with more volume in it. I love an upper/lower split for bulking... it's my go to in most cases.

Then again, volume for your lower body might have to be kept in check given how much you're running. But that doesn't mean you couldn't jack up volume for your upper body.

I like bulking routines, in general, that have a foundation of strength work akin to what you'd see in 5x5 or SL paired with some metabolic/hypertrophy work through higher rep sets, RPT, and/or extended set protocols such as rest-pause stuff.

It's certainly not the way... but it's my preferred approach.

My bulking programs typically have more isolation work thrown into the mix as well.