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Read all of this with great interest - amazing information. I have so many questions but really they all boil down to feeling a bit stuck and unsure where I go from here. 50 year old female, 5'5", 134lbs. I've always been into sport and/or exercise and in 1998 trained for my first marathon and for 6 years was a committed runner and endurance athlete (ultras, triathlon). Serious injury in the form of a fractuted tibia curtailed that so I took up golf and turned my slightly obsessive nature to that. I still did (do) a fair bit of low intensity cardio most days such as swimming, cycling, walking, stairclimber etc. I've known for years that I should incorporate more resistance training but can push really hard at cardio but can't seem to replicate that drive for weights.
A typical day currently is 45 mins steady state cardio on rising, 18 holes of golf (carrying clubs) and either an Insanity or T25 session early evening. Sunday is my "rest" day and usually just a round of golf. I'm pretty strong and can do 50 push ups and 5 chin ups although my elbows complain at those so don't perform them often. I currently have a goal to complete 5 handstand push ups by summer.
I feel about 7lbs heavier than I'd like to be and for sure my shape has changed and a chubbier midriff than I like. I currently eat 1700-1800 calories which is (allegedly) under my TDEE (2100). I log every day and weigh pretty much 90-95% foods.
The scale just doesn't shift and have been more disciplined with logging since mid December.
Any advice/thoughts as to my best course of action? Do you have any thoughts and experience as to the impact of menopause on weight loss/maintenance/muscle gain?
Thanks...in anticipation!0 -
This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!
I know I hate using machines to lift but would lat bar pulldown have a good carry over to pull ups?
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Do you know if you can get keto flu type symptoms at 100-120g net carbs/day and these persist because you aren't actually going into/staying in ketosis?0
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yopeeps025 wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!
I know I hate using machines to lift but would lat bar pulldown have a good carry over to pull ups?
The only complaint I have about CrossFit is that we don't have any machines.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!
I know I hate using machines to lift but would lat bar pulldown have a good carry over to pull ups?
The only complaint I have about CrossFit is that we don't have any machines.
Are you able to do the palm face each other chin ups? That from my experience and what I read is that is the easiest chin up then palms face you then palm face away then wide grip palms face away.
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yopeeps025 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!
I know I hate using machines to lift but would lat bar pulldown have a good carry over to pull ups?
The only complaint I have about CrossFit is that we don't have any machines.
Are you able to do the palm face each other chin ups? That from my experience and what I read is that is the easiest chin up then palms face you then palm face away then wide grip palms face away.
Hmm I'll look into it.0 -
I know that in order to retain the maximum amount of muscle while in a deficit one must lift weights. But whats the most ideal number of times each week? I generally strive to lift 3xs a week (full body each time), but if I cant manage to fit a session in one week, or only fit 1 session in, will I lose muscle mass? Im a mom to 5 (my oldest just turned 7), so some weeks it is literally impossible to make it to the gym.0
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »Yay! IN for knowledge!
Yes please! Ty for this thread!
New at this and was wondering if you could give some advice on fruit and also thoughts on yogurt, coconut milk and chia seeds! Ty again0 -
amandarunning wrote: »Read all of this with great interest - amazing information. I have so many questions but really they all boil down to feeling a bit stuck and unsure where I go from here. 50 year old female, 5'5", 134lbs. I've always been into sport and/or exercise and in 1998 trained for my first marathon and for 6 years was a committed runner and endurance athlete (ultras, triathlon). Serious injury in the form of a fractuted tibia curtailed that so I took up golf and turned my slightly obsessive nature to that. I still did (do) a fair bit of low intensity cardio most days such as swimming, cycling, walking, stairclimber etc. I've known for years that I should incorporate more resistance training but can push really hard at cardio but can't seem to replicate that drive for weights.
A typical day currently is 45 mins steady state cardio on rising, 18 holes of golf (carrying clubs) and either an Insanity or T25 session early evening. Sunday is my "rest" day and usually just a round of golf. I'm pretty strong and can do 50 push ups and 5 chin ups although my elbows complain at those so don't perform them often. I currently have a goal to complete 5 handstand push ups by summer.
I feel about 7lbs heavier than I'd like to be and for sure my shape has changed and a chubbier midriff than I like. I currently eat 1700-1800 calories which is (allegedly) under my TDEE (2100). I log every day and weigh pretty much 90-95% foods.
The scale just doesn't shift and have been more disciplined with logging since mid December.
Any advice/thoughts as to my best course of action? Do you have any thoughts and experience as to the impact of menopause on weight loss/maintenance/muscle gain?
Thanks...in anticipation!
Menopause makes it all a bit harder.
But I'll say this... if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten. That applies to your case on a number of fronts.
1. You're an endurance junkie. Yet your body is changing in ways that you aren't happy about. Focus on building a strong body and appearance will follow suit.
2. If the current calorie intake isn't yielding fat loss over a meaningful period of time, you need to troubleshoot it. Typically it's an issues of having to cut them further or to do a better job with accuracy. Every now and again it's a matter of increasing calories.
The short of it?
I'd find a way to work strength training into your mix. At least a couple of full body sessions each week.
Also, you're at over 13 calories per pound. You're pretty active, but you're also at an age where TDEE can drop. For active folks, a good range to find yourself in for fat loss is 10-12 cals/lb. I'd drop to 12 and focus on consistency with it. See what that does for you over the course of 2-4 weeks and know that, if need be, you have some wiggle room to adjust things further.
Make sense?
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stroutman81 wrote: »amandarunning wrote: »Read all of this with great interest - amazing information. I have so many questions but really they all boil down to feeling a bit stuck and unsure where I go from here. 50 year old female, 5'5", 134lbs. I've always been into sport and/or exercise and in 1998 trained for my first marathon and for 6 years was a committed runner and endurance athlete (ultras, triathlon). Serious injury in the form of a fractuted tibia curtailed that so I took up golf and turned my slightly obsessive nature to that. I still did (do) a fair bit of low intensity cardio most days such as swimming, cycling, walking, stairclimber etc. I've known for years that I should incorporate more resistance training but can push really hard at cardio but can't seem to replicate that drive for weights.
A typical day currently is 45 mins steady state cardio on rising, 18 holes of golf (carrying clubs) and either an Insanity or T25 session early evening. Sunday is my "rest" day and usually just a round of golf. I'm pretty strong and can do 50 push ups and 5 chin ups although my elbows complain at those so don't perform them often. I currently have a goal to complete 5 handstand push ups by summer.
I feel about 7lbs heavier than I'd like to be and for sure my shape has changed and a chubbier midriff than I like. I currently eat 1700-1800 calories which is (allegedly) under my TDEE (2100). I log every day and weigh pretty much 90-95% foods.
The scale just doesn't shift and have been more disciplined with logging since mid December.
Any advice/thoughts as to my best course of action? Do you have any thoughts and experience as to the impact of menopause on weight loss/maintenance/muscle gain?
Thanks...in anticipation!
Menopause makes it all a bit harder.
But I'll say this... if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always gotten. That applies to your case on a number of fronts.
1. You're an endurance junkie. Yet your body is changing in ways that you aren't happy about. Focus on building a strong body and appearance will follow suit.
2. If the current calorie intake isn't yielding fat loss over a meaningful period of time, you need to troubleshoot it. Typically it's an issues of having to cut them further or to do a better job with accuracy. Every now and again it's a matter of increasing calories.
The short of it?
I'd find a way to work strength training into your mix. At least a couple of full body sessions each week.
Also, you're at over 13 calories per pound. You're pretty active, but you're also at an age where TDEE can drop. For active folks, a good range to find yourself in for fat loss is 10-12 cals/lb. I'd drop to 12 and focus on consistency with it. See what that does for you over the course of 2-4 weeks and know that, if need be, you have some wiggle room to adjust things further.
Make sense?
Yes that does make perfect sense. I am an endurance junkie for sure. I have started to really enjoy the T25 Upper and Lower Focus which is slightly more resistance than cardio biased. My upper body and legs are in the sort of shape I want (athletic, muscular) but the fat all around my middle is fairly new and unpleasant!
I'll drop to 12 calories per pound and tighten further on accuracy. I kind of figure on having some "wriggle room in my box" (!!) but guess actually with my age and weight I don't.
I tend to workout at home and have a bench (not incline) and 3 sets of dumbbells with various weights plus a pull up bar. Just bought some TRX type straps (SKLZ Power Strapz). I also bought You Are Your Own Gym. As you can see I dabble without fully committing to a structured programme. Any resources for a thrice weekly full body routine?
Thanks for your time..much appreciated.
PS Recently changed my macros to 40c/30p/30f from a higher protein/lower carb ratio and feel more energy in my evening workout. Seem reasonable to stick with it?
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Found this online and seems a reasonable programme I can manage with my current equipment...
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/wotw101.htm
The best full-body workout program for muscle gain will use mostly compound exercises because they work many muscles at once and give the most "bang for the buck."
On this program, you will workout 3 times per week with one days rest between each workout. The rep schemes in this program will be kept between a total volume of 24-50 per exercise (volume = sets X reps). A total volume of 24-50 is great for both increasing strength and promoting hypertrophy.
A different rep scheme will be used each workout of the week. Rest periods between sets should be kept between 1-and-2 minutes. Higher rep schemes will have slightly longer rest periods and lower rep schemes will have less rest time between sets.
Rest Periods Should Be Kept Between One And Two Minutes.
Try to avoid training to failure while working out on full-body programs because training to failure will require more recovery time. One should strive to increase weights lifted or reps performed each week to continue seeing progression.
Each workout will contain one exercise per major muscle group and two isolation exercises of your choice. One compound exercise should be chosen to work the lower body muscles, upper body pushing muscles and upper body pulling exercises. There should also be one shoulder exercise.
"One Should Strive To Increase Weights Lifted Or Reps Performed Each Week To Continue Seeing Progression. "
Because the abdominals, calves, triceps and biceps will get worked in the big compound exercises you choose, they do not need to be directly stimulated each day. Each workout chose two of these smaller muscles and perform one exercise for each of the 2 you selected.
Choose one exercise for each of the groups below for each workout (the below exercises are suggestions only and you are not limited to just these movements):
Compound Upper Body Push
Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
Incline Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
Decline Bench Press (Barbell or Dumbbell)
Dips
Pushups
Compound Upper Body Pulling
Pullups
Chin-ups
Lat Pulldowns
Bent Over Rows
Cable Rows
Other Row Variations
Compound Lower Body
Squats
Front Squats
Hack Squats
Deadlifts
Straight Leg Deadlifts
Romanian Deadlifts
Lunges
Step Ups
Shoulder Exercise
Military Press
Push Press
Upright Rows
Lateral Raises
External Rotations
Power Cleans
Shrugs
One Isolation Exercise For 2 Muscles Of Your Choice
Biceps
Triceps
Abs
Calves
Sample Program
Day 1 - 4x8
Squats
Bench Press
Pullups
Military Press
Barbell Curls
Ab Roller
Day 3 - 5x5
Deadlifts
Bent Over Rows
Dumbbell Incline Bench Press
Lateral Raises
Dumbbell Tricep Extensions
Hammer Curls
Day 5 - 3x12
Lunges
Dips
Chin-ups
Push Press
Seated Calf Raises
Plate Twists
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Loving this thread.
I'm almost to my initial goal: 5'3, 125, would like to be 120. About 25% BF (had a DXA), would like to be 22% or under, and eventually (after getting the fat somewhat lower) would like to start working on increasing muscle mass.
I freaked a little last month when I did my follow-up DXA and saw I'd lost some muscle mass. I have been continuing with a 20%/500 cal deficit in part because otherwise I feel like it gets lost in the logging errors (I was really sloppy over the holidays and I go out a couple times a week anyway), plus I've been aware that my TDEE is probably lower than it was since my favorite exercise is running outdoors and the winter is interfering.
I've been losing inconsistently, but basically stalled in December (predictable), 5-6 down in January (I logged consistently and ate around 1600 on average or a bit below that), and feel like I'm stalling again, but clearly too soon to say and possibly paranoia.
My goal is to lose the rest without compromising muscle mass if possible. So do I just have to accept that I need to reduce my deficit and track better? Or don't overthink it?
I've also been warned that the muscle mass issue could be related to too much cardio (I did a lot through the fall, was training for half marathons and am planning to train for tris, although my cardio lately has been more interval runs, biking, and exercise class stuff). I do strength train (was too haphazard, am trying to keep track of my weights better and push to increase them, have been doing a NRoL-based program).0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!
So are you doing them fatigued? I'm guessing so since they're thrown into a WOD. But if you think about what you're doing when you're trying to do a pull-up, you're really trying a max effort lift. Going into a max effort attempt under fatigue.
If I was dead set on doing a pullup, they'd be the first part of my workout.
0 -
girlviernes wrote: »Do you know if you can get keto flu type symptoms at 100-120g net carbs/day and these persist because you aren't actually going into/staying in ketosis?
I don't know. Sorry. It stands to reason that if you're constantly flirting with the threshold of ketosis, you're never fully adapting to it and each time you float over to the keto side of that threshold, you're left feeling crappy.
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stroutman81 wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »This thread delivers...in an awesome way.
About those pull-ups...
I just can't seem to get one. I'm on the skinniest band at my gym and I can do it but the minute I take the band off, I can barely get half of the way up there. What can I do to hit it, finally. I've been at it for more than a year...
5'4, 135....
Deadlift: 165# max
Overhead strict press: 55#
Clean: 115# max
Jerk/push press: 65# comfortably
Snatch: 65#
Do these lifts help for pull-ups at all?
To get better at pull-ups, you should, well... do more pull-ups. The movements you listed will help with overall strength and there might be some carryover. But not much in relative terms.
How often are you training them? And can you do a chin up?
Maybe twice a week? I do CrossFit and they are incorporated into the WODs.
I tried a chin up last week for the first time. No go.
I guess I should just keep practicing. It's so frustrating!
So are you doing them fatigued? I'm guessing so since they're thrown into a WOD. But if you think about what you're doing when you're trying to do a pull-up, you're really trying a max effort lift. Going into a max effort attempt under fatigue.
If I was dead set on doing a pullup, they'd be the first part of my workout.
Ok.
Thanks
0 -
I know that in order to retain the maximum amount of muscle while in a deficit one must lift weights. But whats the most ideal number of times each week? I generally strive to lift 3xs a week (full body each time), but if I cant manage to fit a session in one week, or only fit 1 session in, will I lose muscle mass? Im a mom to 5 (my oldest just turned 7), so some weeks it is literally impossible to make it to the gym.
Skipping a session here and there isn't going to make your muscles fall off. It takes much less to maintain muscle than it does to build it. Theoretically you could get by lifting full body twice per week. As long as you're eating sufficient protein and focusing on maintaining the load on the bar... you'd be fine. And if a week pops up where you can only get in there once... even there you'd be fine. I wouldn't want to rely on 1 session/week on the regular. It'd help... but it wouldn't be ideal. That's not what you're asking, though.
0 -
amandarunning wrote: »Yes that does make perfect sense. I am an endurance junkie for sure. I have started to really enjoy the T25 Upper and Lower Focus which is slightly more resistance than cardio biased. My upper body and legs are in the sort of shape I want (athletic, muscular) but the fat all around my middle is fairly new and unpleasant!
It very well could be that workouts like T25 are enough to maintain the level of muscularity you desire given your body and genetics. Get your calories dialed in, tap into the fat that's on top of the muscles, and see where it takes you.
If after losing some fat you realize that you actually need a bigger base of muscle... you can reassess your resistance training approach then.
Women tend to have a higher amount of slow twitch muscle fibers, which tends to make higher rep training a better fit for them. By that, I mean higher rep than what you tend to see.
I've personally realized the best results with my female clients when utilizing some pure strength stuff (think 4-8 rep range) and higher rep stuff (think 12-20 reps).I'll drop to 12 calories per pound and tighten further on accuracy. I kind of figure on having some "wriggle room in my box" (!!) but guess actually with my age and weight I don't.
Hey, I have plenty of female clients that need to park themselves at 10 cals/lb. Feel lucky if you can get by at 12. Remember... 12 tends to be the high end of the range for fat loss!I tend to workout at home and have a bench (not incline) and 3 sets of dumbbells with various weights plus a pull up bar. Just bought some TRX type straps (SKLZ Power Strapz). I also bought You Are Your Own Gym. As you can see I dabble without fully committing to a structured programme. Any resources for a thrice weekly full body routine?
I won't get into actual programming in this thread. But I did recently post this on my mfp blog... I imagine you'll be able to get some ideas:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/back-of-the-napkin-programming-704698PS Recently changed my macros to 40c/30p/30f from a higher protein/lower carb ratio and feel more energy in my evening workout. Seem reasonable to stick with it?
I tend to shy away from percentages... preferring to look at absolutes. Especially when it comes to protein.
I like to see protein anywhere from .8 - 1.5 g. That's my foundation. On it I make sure to include a bunch of fibrous veggies and fruit. And on the remainder of the calorie allotment is split between carbs and fats. How it's split between carbs and fats is entirely dependent on the individual and their goals/exercise. I like to see at least 120 or so grams of carbs in most plans though. Most of the time I'm substantially higher than that.
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stroutman81 wrote: »Let me rephrase- I am curious to know your thoughts on the balance between striving to become lean while minimizing losses in strength and power endurance. How does one do this and what sort of progress, in your experience, is realistic?
Sorry... I need a bit more clarification. Are you actually taking about strength endurance and power endurance? Or strength, power, and endurance? The way I'm reading your question, it seems like the former. However, something tells me you're simply asking how to keep your strength while cutting.
I've done some investigating since asking this confusing question. And I can distill it to this - how can you modify heavy compound weightlifting sets to maximize training power endurance. And by power endurance I mean anaerobic endurance I think. I think that is the more correct term.0
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