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  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    Another question (greedy!). What's your take on protein sources such as whey powder and protein bars? I have a sweet tooth and was satisfying that with a bar or two a day. Started to wonder if that was stalling weight loss so not had any for 3 weeks. No change on the scales so thinking that to hit my revised macros (with protein being the main goal) then adding a bar a day either for breakfast or as a snack wouldn't be such a bad thing? Just can't do savoury for breakfast!

    Let me ask you this...

    Why do you think powders and bars could stall your fat loss irrespective of calories?



    Good question. Firstly, clutching at straws (other than tightening my belt calorie-wise!) for the scales refusing to budge. Secondly, if I continue to use them then I never really get top-side of my sweet tooth. Not getting top-side of that can lead to eating more calories as it's about taste and craving rather than hunger/nutrition/macros. Plus not using them makes me focus on protein & macro splits from whole/less processed foods which has to be a better option?

    Going cold turkey on them hasn't hurt too much plus my wallet appreciates the change!

    Am I answering my own question? Possibly. I'm thinking they should be the exception rather than the norm??

    Today has been a juggling act with calories and macros which I've enjoyed. Then part of me wonders about doing this every day for the rest of my life and that seems obsessive, strict, controlling etc etc. That suits my nature but sometimes also makes me sigh...

    Well, for what it's worth, I use powder daily. And most days I eat a bar, too. I mean, come on... how can you go wrong with a warmed Quest bar?!!

    But for me, I accept that I'm not a robot and I am human... which means food ISN'T solely about fuel. It's also about pleasure and enjoyment.

  • amandarunning
    amandarunning Posts: 306 Member
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    Well I love chocolate and getting my "fix" from protein bars certainly helps keep off cravings. I think I've been chasing my tail trying to see some progress without wanting to do the tough stuff like eat less...
  • pedidiva
    pedidiva Posts: 199 Member
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    Great thread. Lots of good information.
    Thanks

    Pedi
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    Well I love chocolate and getting my "fix" from protein bars certainly helps keep off cravings. I think I've been chasing my tail trying to see some progress without wanting to do the tough stuff like eat less...

    Well don't feel bad... most people overlook the obvious answers because they're not sexy. "Count calories better and consider cutting them back slightly" isn't exactly enthralling. It's much easier to think along the lines of, "There must be some special combination of foods that is either holding me back or can propel me forward."

    And our diet culture breeds this line of reasoning. How many times do we see sensationalist headlines about a single food of list of foods being either the cure for cancer or the root of obesity?


  • fatcity66
    fatcity66 Posts: 1,544 Member
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    I have a question, if you'll humor me:

    Why do some people lose tons of water weight in the beginning of a diet, while others lose very little? I mean, even people who have the same amount of weight to lose? Any insight on this?

    Thanks!
  • amandarunning
    amandarunning Posts: 306 Member
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    Very true and eating less isn't that palatable when you love food :-)

    It feels good to have a plan and focus moving forwards. Thanks again for you help and time.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    fatcity66 wrote: »
    I have a question, if you'll humor me:

    Why do some people lose tons of water weight in the beginning of a diet, while others lose very little? I mean, even people who have the same amount of weight to lose? Any insight on this?

    Thanks!

    Totally depends on the person, the training, the diet, etc. For example, every molecule of glycogen carries 3 molecules of water. So if you're rocking a low card diet and/or a very glycogen-depleting training regimen, you can lose far more water than someone who's not applying these sorts of things.

    Age, sex, weight, etc... there are a lot of factors that can influence this.
  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    Okay, a couple questions. I've always heard that you need at least a day off in between working a muscle for muscle recovery. If you are still sore on the 2nd day after a workout, does that mean your muscles are still recovering, and if so, would it make sense to wait another day? Also, how would you recommend combining workouts that are somewhat strength building (yoga, pilates) with actual weight training? For example, would there be a problem to do a full body workout on Day 1, pilates Day 2, and full body Day 3?

    Thanks, and this is great!
  • Ooci
    Ooci Posts: 247 Member
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    Wonderful thread - thank you. So much useful information.

    My question - if you've time - is it realistic to get back to the weight you were in your 20s? I'm 42 yrs old, 5ft 0 and now 133lb. I lost 43 lbs already, but I want to be 116lb. Everyone at my slimming group, and my family, is telling me I won't be able to do it, and to stop being so unrealistic. They also say I'll look awful as my face will "fall in". What are your thoughts on realistic goals? my waist measurement at 133lb is 34 inches and I remember at 116 lb it was 25 inches - which is where I want it. Thank you.
  • andylllI
    andylllI Posts: 379 Member
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    Ok one more question, when you are doing 45-90 min at a heart rate of 145ish, which based on your profile age is about 70-75% of theoretical max, do you feel like you are doing anything? Because I don't. I could do that for several hours before feeling it esp if we are talking about walking with a load or jogging. I tend to like to have my hr around 160-170 to feel like I am doing something. So is the idea of this lower intensity training to do it more often/ daily? Or should I do it and it will benefit me even if it doesn't feel like "real" exercise?
  • DYELB
    DYELB Posts: 7,407 Member
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    What exercises would you suggest to build up the musculature on and around the lower back area? I recognize that's a pretty broad question; I threw out my back squatting last weekend and am considering alternate workout plans right now.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,401 MFP Moderator
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    With the understanding that you need low body fat in order to have visible abs, do you feel that it's beneficial to dedicate time to just doing ab/core exercise or just concentrate on compound lifting? I have seen a lot of suggestions for not doing ab or core routines if you are doing a full body lifting routine. On the other hand, I have seen some articles that would suggest ab/core routines are beneficial as it's your foundation and your abs are no different than other muscles and if you want to have developed abs, you should specifically work them.
  • lin7604
    lin7604 Posts: 3,019 Member
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    Psulemon, Thx for letting me know about this thread!!!

    Awesome thread!!!

    Now for my turn for a question and hopefully a answer :)

    I am 5.2 ft and was 115 lbs in 2013 and maintained my weight all year, was close to goal. My goal was to get to 20% bf. I did Chalean extreme and t25 all year. Come 2014 I thought I needed a switch and decided I wanted more definition. So switch up my program. Come July I didn't change at all, so I paid to get my numbers done and go kinda iifym style. I was suggested to go to maintance as I had been in a deficit for 2.5 years and I wouldn't get more definition as I needed more cals to get more definition. So I went from 14-1600 cals on average to 1700 daily. I was ok with those numbers as long as I lifted 6 days a week. Come oct I was sick and wasn't exercising as consistently. I didn't adjust my cals and of course I gained. Went to 122 lbs. I gained bdy fat and inches and a clothing size. I need to get back down. I am doing 1450-1500 now. Doing combat and pump. Never did fast reps like in pump before. Am I making a good choice doing pump instead of Chalean extreme? 5 lbs does t seem like a lot but me it is and I justvwant to feel comfortable again iny clothes! Will i reduce my body fat doing it this way or am I better off doing maintance like I was suggested? I'm probably around 24% bf now? I had a goal of mid March for our beach vacation but don't know if that is realistic?
  • Holla4mom
    Holla4mom Posts: 587 Member
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    My fitness IQ just increased exponentially from reading this thread! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    Okay, a couple questions. I've always heard that you need at least a day off in between working a muscle for muscle recovery. If you are still sore on the 2nd day after a workout, does that mean your muscles are still recovering, and if so, would it make sense to wait another day? Also, how would you recommend combining workouts that are somewhat strength building (yoga, pilates) with actual weight training? For example, would there be a problem to do a full body workout on Day 1, pilates Day 2, and full body Day 3?

    Thanks, and this is great!

    It's human nature to think categorically. We tend to organize things by simple rules and guidelines. But the thing is, our bodies don't know about these categories and rules. They just are - sitting there all adaptive to whatever it is we throw at it.

    The question here really is, "Can I outpace my body's ability to adapt by throwing too much at it?"

    Right?

    First, yes... this is a balancing act between training and recovery. But people tend to forget that everything about the body is adaptive. There isn't some fixed time period that needs to be place between exercise bouts. Recovery ability, itself, is adaptive. Meaning one could conceivably start with, for example, a full body program done 2-3 times per week and add volume gradually as their bodies adapt until - at some point - adding a 4th day makes sense.

    A buddy of mine and I were just chatting about this on FB and he called this "exposure therapy." I like that term.

    Take myself as an example. I train full body 5 times per week. That doesn't mean I'm doing bench press 5 time per week. But it does mean each muscle is getting worked quite a bit across the week. I've been training pretty consistently for nearly 20 years. I've built a decent work capacity.

    Oh yeah... on top of my strength training I go for a walk most days and typically 1 big hike each week.

    So long story short... you can "grow into" a high frequency routine and be totally fine.

    Now there are a lot of variables that need to be factored in including diet, work capacity, genetics, resiliency, temperament, lifestyle/other stress, etc. What I typically see in my practice is people trying to do far too dang much while slashing calories, raising babies, and vying for promotions at their stressful jobs. Oh yeah, all this while also having all sorts of jaded and extreme perceptions and expectations, which only adds more stress to the pot.

    They try and go from 0 to 100 with no respect for building work capacity over time and balancing everything else with their training and diet.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    Ooci wrote: »
    Wonderful thread - thank you. So much useful information.

    My question - if you've time - is it realistic to get back to the weight you were in your 20s? I'm 42 yrs old, 5ft 0 and now 133lb. I lost 43 lbs already, but I want to be 116lb. Everyone at my slimming group, and my family, is telling me I won't be able to do it, and to stop being so unrealistic. They also say I'll look awful as my face will "fall in". What are your thoughts on realistic goals? my waist measurement at 133lb is 34 inches and I remember at 116 lb it was 25 inches - which is where I want it. Thank you.

    I think a couple of things...

    1) People will always say things like this. Ignore them.

    2) Chasing a particular weight is silly. Forget about it.

    3) Focus on the process - leading a fit lifestyle. The cards will fall where they fall. Base your decisions and behaviors on where you are today. Not where you were 20 years ago. Your body is different now.

    4) You can always drop weight. So yes, theoretically it's possible to get to your coveted 116 lbs. But as I said above, I'd forget about it. If it happens, let it happen because it makes sense as you navigate down your journey.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    andylllI wrote: »
    Ok one more question, when you are doing 45-90 min at a heart rate of 145ish, which based on your profile age is about 70-75% of theoretical max, do you feel like you are doing anything? Because I don't. I could do that for several hours before feeling it esp if we are talking about walking with a load or jogging. I tend to like to have my hr around 160-170 to feel like I am doing something. So is the idea of this lower intensity training to do it more often/ daily? Or should I do it and it will benefit me even if it doesn't feel like "real" exercise?

    Your perceptions and the language of your body aren't necessarily on the same page. I see people, day in and out, doing the equivalent of punching their bodies in the face. They think it's best to jackhammer their body into submission with excessive intense exercise all because if "feels" best.

    Building performance is a game of specificity and finesse. Don't get me wrong, there are times and place to really push it.

    But cardiac output training is meant to be easy. It's low intensity. Going too high on the intensity continuum negates the adaptations we're trying to have happen. Namely, we want hypertrophy of the heart's chambers (namely left ventricular eccentric hypertrophy). This, in turn, will increase the amount of blood your heart can pump and thus increase the amount of oxygen being delivered to your muscles each beat and each minute. More oxygen = better recovery between intense bouts of anaerobic work.

    Go too high in intensity and you don't allow your left ventricle to fill completely and thus you miss the specific stimulus we're shooting for.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    DYELB wrote: »
    What exercises would you suggest to build up the musculature on and around the lower back area? I recognize that's a pretty broad question; I threw out my back squatting last weekend and am considering alternate workout plans right now.

    Honestly, if you threw your back out I'd be going to get assessed by a qualified professional. The cause could be many things, but the logical thing isn't always so logical. Meaning, concentrating on the muscles of your lower back may or may not be the appropriate move. The only way you'll know is to get assessed.

    Often times injuries come from issues that are above or below the actual joint that's having a problem.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    psulemon wrote: »
    With the understanding that you need low body fat in order to have visible abs, do you feel that it's beneficial to dedicate time to just doing ab/core exercise or just concentrate on compound lifting? I have seen a lot of suggestions for not doing ab or core routines if you are doing a full body lifting routine. On the other hand, I have seen some articles that would suggest ab/core routines are beneficial as it's your foundation and your abs are no different than other muscles and if you want to have developed abs, you should specifically work them.

    I find that most people don't need specific hypertrophy work for their abs. In almost all cases, once body fat is low enough, my clients (and myself) have perfectly fine ab musculature without ever doing any direct hypertrophy work. In many cases, hypertrophying the midsection would work against the appearance a lot of people are targeting.

    I do, however, think core training is important. The vast majority of the time, though, it's going to be more isometric in nature where we're targeting anti-rotation and anti-extension stuff primarily.

    And I never program entire routines for the abs.
  • stroutman81
    stroutman81 Posts: 2,474 Member
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    lin7604 wrote: »
    Psulemon, Thx for letting me know about this thread!!!

    Awesome thread!!!

    Now for my turn for a question and hopefully a answer :)

    I am 5.2 ft and was 115 lbs in 2013 and maintained my weight all year, was close to goal. My goal was to get to 20% bf. I did Chalean extreme and t25 all year. Come 2014 I thought I needed a switch and decided I wanted more definition. So switch up my program. Come July I didn't change at all, so I paid to get my numbers done and go kinda iifym style. I was suggested to go to maintance as I had been in a deficit for 2.5 years and I wouldn't get more definition as I needed more cals to get more definition. So I went from 14-1600 cals on average to 1700 daily. I was ok with those numbers as long as I lifted 6 days a week. Come oct I was sick and wasn't exercising as consistently. I didn't adjust my cals and of course I gained. Went to 122 lbs. I gained bdy fat and inches and a clothing size. I need to get back down. I am doing 1450-1500 now. Doing combat and pump. Never did fast reps like in pump before. Am I making a good choice doing pump instead of Chalean extreme? 5 lbs does t seem like a lot but me it is and I justvwant to feel comfortable again iny clothes! Will i reduce my body fat doing it this way or am I better off doing maintance like I was suggested? I'm probably around 24% bf now? I had a goal of mid March for our beach vacation but don't know if that is realistic?

    Wait. So people are charging for macro recommendations nowadays? Sheesh, I really need to put my guru hat on more often... smh.

    Secondly, my apologies, but I don't stay abreast of all these fancy prepackaged workouts. They're just not my cup of tea. I can't tell you if one is better than the other for your goals. But I can tell you that I agree with the recommendation to go up to maintenance for a bit if you were really dieting for 2.5 yrs straight.

    It sounds like you were at maintenance or above for a month, at least... maybe more.

    If that's the case, I'd say you're good to head back into deficit territory. It's this side of things - the nutrition - that's going to be the primary driver of fat loss. Your current calorie target of 1450 or so is just about right as a starting point. It's toward the high end of things... so test it out. If it's yielding sufficient results... let it ride. What are sufficient results? Maybe .5% of your body weight per week on average.

    And please understand that the exercise side of the coin should primarily be tailored for muscle maintenance. Let your nutrition handle the fat loss / calorie deficit side of the things. Tailor exercise to hold onto the "good stuff" as your diet takes the soft stuff off.