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stroutman81

WestCoastJo82 wrote: »

Thanks for doing this Steve! I'm guessing there isn't a set answer for this, but in general how quickly should I be progressing in my weights when lifting? I'll often stay at the same weight level for several months, and I'm wondering if I'm cheating myself somehow. For example, right now I'm squatting 115, and I've been at that weight since October. I'd like to be strong, but I generally do what I do to look good naked and to be in good shape for the summer hiking I do. I'm maintaining my weight currently (32, f, 5'5'', 135) although contemplating another small cut.

Why do you hold a weight stable for so long?

I suggest progressing as frequently as possible. Folks who aren't very strong can get away with increasing load every single workout. The stronger you get, the more creative you need to be in terms of periodization in order to tease progress out.

But I've been training for nearly 20 years and I still expect myself to increase loading on the regular.

To give you an idea of activity level: I do total body weight lifting twice a week, yoga twice a week, and 3-4 mile runs twice a week. I walk about 5 miles a day but don't have an active job.

That's a nice mix of activity.

WestCoastJo82

Why do you hold a weight stable for so long?

I tend to increase my load once it's no longer difficult to do 10 reps. So right now the first 8 reps at 115 are a piece of cake, but 9 is hard, and I'm really pushing at 10. Maybe I just need to change my definition of "difficult" and progress faster. Thanks for your feedback!

stroutman81

bonniejo wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

bonniejo wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

bonniejo wrote: »

I'm planning on starting a weight training program this week (I'm going over squats and deadlifts with a trainer first so I don't hurt myself). I'm currently losing well on 1650 calories per day and one cheat meal per week (this week is sushi, yum!), protein between 110-130g/day. Should I change anything on the eating side for weight lifting? Or keep everything as is?

Impossible to say based on the info you've given. What's your age, height, and weight? How active are you outside of the gym? How many days per week are you training? What forms of training are you using besides lifting?

Also, I feel obligated to state that you don't NEED squats and deadlifts to optimize your physique. I mean, if you want to include them, they're certainly great exercises. But I see a lot of people thinking they're NECESSARY for physique optimization and that couldn't be further from the truth.

If you don't feel comfortable with one or both, don't be afraid to find alternatives.

I'm 24, 5' 4" and 133 lbs. Bf around 26%. I walk 10-13,000 steps per day (walking the dog, etc), but I sit quite a bit as a student. I do a step and strength class (50% intense step, 50% body weight/high rep weight training) 3 days a week, and a pure step class once a week. I really like my step classes and don't plan on changing them. I also do some balance work assigned by my physical therapist most days to strengthen my knees and ankles, but she has given me the all clear to start lifting as long as I am sure about my form.

I'm planning to start the following program. I picked it because it only works each muscle group once per week, so if I work that group again in my class I won't be overdoing it. I can also always use lower weights in my class as well, or do an alternate exercise. The teacher is really flexible.

Day 1 (all sets 8-10 reps)
Flat Bench Press – Warm-up sets and then 3 working sets
Incline Bench Press – 3 working sets
Incline Dumbbell Bench Press – 3 working sets
Dips – 3 working sets to failure (use the assistance machine if necessary)
Triceps Pushdown – 3 working sets
Seated Triceps Press – working 3 sets

Day 2
Barbell Deadlift – Warm-up sets and then 3 working sets
Barbell Row: 3 working sets
One-Arm Dumbbell Row – 3 working sets
Close-Grip Lat Pulldown – 3 working sets
Alternating Dumbbell Curl – 3 working sets
Barbell Curl – 3 working sets

Day 3

Seated Barbell Military Press – Warm-up sets and then 3 working sets
Barbell Upright Row – 3 working sets
Side Lateral Raise – 3 working sets
Bent-Over Rear Delt Raise – 3 working sets
Barbell Squat – 3 working sets
Leg Press – 3 working sets
Barbell Lunge – 3 working sets
Romanian Deadlift – 3 working sets

Sorry for the long post! Thanks for the feedback

It's hard for me to really comment here since I have no clue what your classes are really like. That said, I'm thinking they're more cardio than anything else. If you're doing timed calisthenics... it's really closer to cardio than it is strength training.

I mean, let's face it... walking or running is resistance training. You're training and your body weight is providing a resistance. But walking certainly isn't providing the same stimulus at the muscle level that progressive strength training is providing.

Take myself for example. I do 5 full body strength sessions per week. I also go backpacking once per week and walk most days. I don't cut back my leg training simply bc I backpack and walk. Granted, if I was doing intense cardio that was neurologically and muscularly challenging, I'd have to rethink it.

But that would beg the question of, "Does that high intensity cardio suit my goal?"

Which brings me to a very important point that needs addressing before I get ahead of myself (which I likely already have). Context ALWAYS matters. The value of any given program can't be assessed without knowing what the end user is hoping to obtain from said program. Put differently, what are your goals?

And does your current training match your goals?

Specificity also ALWAYS matters.

One of my biggest goals is to have more energy and not get out of breath while hiking, so I think cardio is important for my training. It's also great for my mental health, since it's very meditative to me and I just generally enjoy it. My class often includes doing 50-100 pushups, 2 minute wall sits, 3 minutes of body weight or 10 lb dumbbell squats, 2 one minute sets of tricep extensions, or 2 one minute sets of bicep curls. Often 4-5 minutes of cardio followed by 4-5 minutes of these types of exercises, rinse and repeat for one hour

I'm mostly just wanting to try something new, to be honest. I am making some progress but it has been slow, although the holidays might have something to do with that! According to a BIA scale, my muscle mass has stayed consistent since September while I've lost about 6lbs, so I'm going in the right direction but hoping to speed things up. Just wondering if I should adjust calories or keep them the same. I'm eating about 1650, losing .5-1 lbs per week on average but they're in spurts (same for 3 weeks, then 1.5-2 lbs down, then same for 3 weeks, etc). Everyone on here talks about heavy lifting helping to reduce fat and increase muscle especially in newbies, so I wanted to give it a try!

Edit: Are you saying that I shouldn't try strength training since my goal isn't really to be stronger? I think I'm confused.

I'm definitely NOT saying you shouldn't try strength training. I firmly believe that in almost all cases, be it for performance or physique, strength training should be at the epicenter of your programming.

And yeah, your classes are the typical circuit sessions most of these classes are about. A lot of women tend to gravitate toward them since there's camaraderie. More importantly, I find, in general, that women enjoy beating the poop out of themselves more so than men. Women are much more inclined to leave it all on the gym floor. The closer they can push themselves to being a lump of flesh on the floor, sweating and breathing rigorously after pushing deep into the realms of muscle burn... the better in their minds.

Sorry for the generalizations!

For many of them, though, this feeling is the objective of their workouts unto itself.

And that's fine if you're not concerned about optimizing your training for some physical goal. Like you said, you seem to care more about mental health than the physical outcome. And I'm sure you're getting a conditioning effect, which will help on the trails (big hiker here myself), though I don't train much for it in the gym.

I'm only bringing this above for others who might be reading this (there seem to be a lot of people reading this thread). And when your goals are centered on physique optimization, you need to be more deliberate with your exercise decisions. The objective of your primary workouts should be to train your muscles rather than to chase some feeling.

As for your particular results, you're doing good. Maintaining muscle while losing fat will always net improved performance and better physique. So if you're happy, keep rocking the program you're following. And yes, if you want to add some strength training into the mix... I definitely advocate it. I'm not sure I'd keep the volume of cardio you're doing in the mix while also dieting and doing sufficient strength training. But you'll have to experiment to see what you can and can't handle.

Remember, progress comes from applying a stress AND recovery from said stress. And recovery ability is dampened while eating a deficit.

And if you want faster results, you likely want to turn to the nutritional side of the coin! Strength training will help maintain/add muscle. But it's certainly not magical in terms of fat burning. It's just part of the puzzle of optimal fat loss training, is all.

stroutman81

WestCoastJo82 wrote: »

Why do you hold a weight stable for so long?

I tend to increase my load once it's no longer difficult to do 10 reps. So right now the first 8 reps at 115 are a piece of cake, but 9 is hard, and I'm really pushing at 10. Maybe I just need to change my definition of "difficult" and progress faster. Thanks for your feedback!

I have many of my clients use a rating of perceived exertion. There are a bunch out there, but I like to keep it simple and use a 5 point scale where 1 is easiest and 5 is maximal effort.

1 - speed weight... can move the weight very explosively

2 - moderate weight with 3+ reps left in the tank by the end of the set

3 - reasonably heavy with 2 reps left in the tank by the end of the set

4 - heavy with 1 rep left in the tank by the end of the set

5 - max effort... weight moves slow and grindy... no reps left at end of set

Most of your training should be in the 3-4 range with good controlled form.

I don't really advocate waiting for a particular load to get "easy." There are a lot of ways to go about it... but one way I rely upon regularly is to use target rep ranges. Let's say for a particular exercise you have a target of 10-12 reps. You'd pick a load that gets you within that range. If it's 10, great... you're dialed in and you keep the load for another week. Same if it's 11. But if it's 12 and you felt confident getting it, even if that 12th was heavy, you increase the load slightly.

WestCoastJo82

stroutman81 wrote: »

WestCoastJo82 wrote: »

Why do you hold a weight stable for so long?

I tend to increase my load once it's no longer difficult to do 10 reps. So right now the first 8 reps at 115 are a piece of cake, but 9 is hard, and I'm really pushing at 10. Maybe I just need to change my definition of "difficult" and progress faster. Thanks for your feedback!

I have many of my clients use a rating of perceived exertion. There are a bunch out there, but I like to keep it simple and use a 5 point scale where 1 is easiest and 5 is maximal effort.

1 - speed weight... can move the weight very explosively

2 - moderate weight with 3+ reps left in the tank by the end of the set

3 - reasonably heavy with 2 reps left in the tank by the end of the set

4 - heavy with 1 rep left in the tank by the end of the set

5 - max effort... weight moves slow and grindy... no reps left at end of set

Most of your training should be in the 3-4 range with good controlled form.

I don't really advocate waiting for a particular load to get "easy." There are a lot of ways to go about it... but one way I rely upon regularly is to use target rep ranges. Let's say for a particular exercise you have a target of 10-12 reps. You'd pick a load that gets you within that range. If it's 10, great... you're dialed in and you keep the load for another week. Same if it's 11. But if it's 12 and you felt confident getting it, even if that 12th was heavy, you increase the load slightly.

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

Liftin4food

Hi

I wonder if you can answer this for me. Last year I did 3 months of strong lifts. It was my first go at lifting. I loved it but had to stop due to illness (that was in September). I'm better now and have found the motivation to go back and pick up heavy things again.

My question is - is it likely I have already exhausted any newbie gain benefits? It won't stop me either way - but last time I saw very impressive results very quickly - and I don't want to wind up feeling disappointed if it doesn't happen again.

Thank you for doing this - have learned a lot reading this thread.

kcmccormack

Hi Steve,

Love your posts. They're amazingly insightful and knowledgeable. I guess I'll go ahead and ask you some of my burning questions since you're here and such an awesome source of info and feedback., I'd you don't mind. Firstly, I'm 28,f, 5'6" and 135. I've been doing p90x- lean, for 8 weeks. (I know I know, old dvd and perhaps tacky, but I like it cause it's a little bit of everything. I get bored with workouts and if not for some kinda program/schedule, Im lost). I've been eating 1500 a day. Which leads to my first question, I haven't lost tons of weight, 4-5lbs in 8 weeks, but I see a much better muscle definition, everywhere. Seeing as my inches haven't dropped tons (-.5 inches in waist, -.5 or .75 inches in hips), is it possible to gain a lil muscle whilst in a deficit? I don't even know if I'm really considered to be in a deficit.

When I finish this 13week span I plan on doing the regular p90x workouts with heavier weights since I got better fat burn results last time I did that. But how do you know what calories to aim for when you switch up your program like that? Given, it's not going to be a huge change from what I'm doing now, just less cardio centered.

Also, any suggestions on how to deal with water retention, my scale fluctuates wildly from morning to morning. Like 2-4lbs.

Thanks a million!

kcmccormack

I should've clarified, I know I'm eating at a deficit, just not a large one. I think.

allie_00p

stroutman81 wrote: »

elsie_fair wrote: »

Great thread!
Any recommendations for stretches/exercises for knee pain? I have been lifting for about 8 months and recently getting pain in one of my knees (it feels like the muscle/tendon/whatever along the back of my knee is super tight and painful). It often pops when I squat (although I have pretty "crackly" joints in general)

I am also recovering from a ruptured muscle in my arm, so basically legs are all I can do right now - I want to make sure I don't mess them up, too.

How did you rupture (I'm guessing) your bicep?

And it would be inappropriate for me to try and take a stab at what's going on with your knee. I'd simply suggest to get it looked at by a qualified professional... like a good physio. And definitely do NOT force through the pain!

I actually don't know exactly how - I had increased my overall volume (went from consistent 3 days a week to 4-5) and I had an upper body day after which I had some pretty serious DOMS in my triceps but nothing alarming, went thru the same routine the next week, and a couple days after that my arm swelled up to twice its size so I went to the doc. Now that I'm resting, I can actually feel the spot where it is and it's painful if I even try to reach too far, let alone lift anything, I don't know how I didn't know right away
I think my hamstring is tight, which may be causing the knee pain, I'm using my rest time to roll and stretch, some leg work and a little cardio just to give me something to do in the meantime. I've just been looking around for good exercises to strengthen the muscles around my knee and improve my flexibility.

KrisAZ000

Hi Steve,

Love this thread! All of your advice is super informative. As a relatively lean woman trying to get leaner, I'm particularly appreciative of your knowledge in this area. I have a couple questions for you.

For background: I'm 34, F, 5'7", 144. I eat max 1200 calories a day. I started the deficit in the beginning of Sep, went completely off track for a month around the holidays, and have been back on track for a month. Total weight loss so far is 41 pounds. I lost solely through diet until December, at which point I added squats, lunges and hand weights. I only added cardio into my routine a few weeks ago. So the exercise stuff is all pretty new to me.

My first question is about fat loss and getting a toned look. I don't know my body fat percentage, but by looking at myself I still feel that it needs to go down a bit more. I also feel that I look kinda flabby. From what I understand, I need to keep a good deficit in order to lose the fat %, and build muscle to look less flabby, but it's not really possible to do both at once. So I'm thinking that I need to focus on my deficit and cardio until the body fat drops a bit more, and then at that point I can transition to strength training and a much smaller deficit or maintenance. Is that the right way to go about it?

Second question has to do with lower body fat. My body type is pear shaped, so I've lost considerably more from my upper body than my lower body. My hips and thighs are definitely smaller than they were, just didn't lose nearly as quickly in those areas. So my question is, do you have any specific recommendations for stubborn lower body fat (and reducing appearance of cellulite)? I've read that it's a different type of fat cells than other areas, and that's why it responds differently during weight loss. I don't know if that's accurate or not though.

Sorry for the long-winded post and thanks in advance for your insight!

tomatoey

stroutman81 wrote: »

tomatoey wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

The idea being to build a bigger base of muscle so that the next time you cut down there's better likelihood of "looking the bf%"?

Is that what you're getting at?

If so, I'd say no. If you were working with me, I would not have you do any sort of muscle gain phase without first getting relatively lean again. I just don't see a point in it since the physiology still stands - higher bf% will lead to great rate of fat gain while in a surplus.

I can see your point, and I agree, I for sure want to avoid increasing body fat. I guess I was thinking of recomposition, but maybe that would be harder for me to do given my limitations...

Thanks so much, again, for your thoughts and time!

Trying to add muscle and subtract fat at the same time is, in many cases, a losing proposition. There are some folks who can get away with it (especially those who are coming off injury, who are brand new to training, and/or those who are carrying a lot of excess fat). There are also some programs that try and optimize concurrent comp changes (such as Lyle McDonald's Ultimate Diet 2.0).

But in the vast majority of cases, you simply want to pick one goal and work your butt off at attaining it before moving onto the next.

Got it. Thanks again!

Therealobi1

stroutman81 wrote: »

Therealobi1 wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

Therealobi1 wrote: »

Thanks for a great post. I always hear that we need to increase our weights progressively
. Am I wasting my time with my 20kg dumbells. Am interested in getting leaner so starting to tighten up my logging which has been an issue. Just thinking what I can do with my limited weights at home.

Wasting your time? I wouldn't go that far. But the easiest way to progress the stimulus for improvements is by gradually ramping up load over time. If 20 kg represents an overload right now in a particular exercise, it won't next workout, next week, next month, or whatever.

We're always trying to stay one step ahead of homeostasis... thus pulling our bodies out of their comfort zones in an attempt to better handle increasingly more challenging stress.

Now you can certainly make certain exercises more challenging with the same load. You can change the mechanics to put more load on the target muscle (think about going from regular push-ups to feet-elevated push-ups), you can slow down the tempo (especially the lowering phase) thus increasing the time under tension per rep/set. You can increase the number of reps per set as your body adjusts to a given volume.

There are many things you can do.

That said, if it were me, I'd want to expand my options for gradually increasing loading over time. At a minimum, shop around for some adjustable DBs. There are good resistance bands sold on Amazon that allow you to adjust loading too.

Thanks so much for taking the time to respond, much appreciated. Would love those powerblocks but so expensive. You have given me enough ideas to get creative. Also never thought about resistance bands before.

Some of my clients have these and they approve:

http://www.amazon.com/Black-Mountain-Products-Resistance-Exercise/dp/7245456313/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423523461&sr=8-1&keywords=resistance+bands

And yeah, power blocks are ridiculous. I have very expensive ones myself, but I bought them for my studio where I train clients out of. These are the ones I have:

http://www.amazon.com/Ironmaster-75-Quick-Lock-Adjustable-Dumbbell/dp/B000GE5QRM/ref=sr_1_44?s=exercise-and-fitness&ie=UTF8&qid=1423523572&sr=1-44&keywords=adjustable+dumbbells

But you can usually find a much more reasonably priced set on ebay, craigslist, or whatever. And at your local sporting good store, you can likely find cheapos that can get the job done.

There are loads of them on amazon... not sure if this link will work:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias=sporting&field-keywords=adjustable dumbbells

And let's not forget that you can load backpacks progressively with books. For lighter adjustable loads, you can use gallon jugs or buckets.

There are a lot of options.

gosh i completely forgot about the large water bottles.
thanks for all the links, appreciate your time and this whole post.

stroutman81

Liftin4food wrote: »

Hi

I wonder if you can answer this for me. Last year I did 3 months of strong lifts. It was my first go at lifting. I loved it but had to stop due to illness (that was in September). I'm better now and have found the motivation to go back and pick up heavy things again.

My question is - is it likely I have already exhausted any newbie gain benefits? It won't stop me either way - but last time I saw very impressive results very quickly - and I don't want to wind up feeling disappointed if it doesn't happen again.

Thank you for doing this - have learned a lot reading this thread.

I would bet my money on no... you haven't exhausted your novice gains. You only put 3 months in and then you've been out for another 4-5 months. The fastest rate of gains typically happen over the course of the first year of progressive, consistent training. Mileage may vary from person to person, but that's the general rule.

It's safe to say that you barely have both feet out of the starting blocks.

stroutman81

kcmccormack wrote: »

Hi Steve,

Love your posts. They're amazingly insightful and knowledgeable. I guess I'll go ahead and ask you some of my burning questions since you're here and such an awesome source of info and feedback., I'd you don't mind.

Thanks, and don't mind at all. That's why I started the thread, which is quickly transforming into a rolling conversation.

Firstly, I'm 28,f, 5'6" and 135. I've been doing p90x- lean, for 8 weeks. (I know I know, old dvd and perhaps tacky, but I like it cause it's a little bit of everything. I get bored with workouts and if not for some kinda program/schedule, Im lost). I've been eating 1500 a day. Which leads to my first question, I haven't lost tons of weight, 4-5lbs in 8 weeks, but I see a much better muscle definition, everywhere. Seeing as my inches haven't dropped tons (-.5 inches in waist, -.5 or .75 inches in hips), is it possible to gain a lil muscle whilst in a deficit? I don't even know if I'm really considered to be in a deficit.

What were you doing prior to p90x?

Regardless, to answer your question, yes, you can certainly add muscle in the face of a deficit. This holds true especially for folks who haven't really trained much who jump into a progressive resistance program. So if you weren't doing much lifting before p90x, this likely has some play with your situation.

Secondly, what makes you think that 1500 calories wouldn't represent a deficit for you? The general sweet spot for active folks interested in fat loss is 10-12 cals/lb. You're smack dab in the middle. Without knowing more, I'd expect your calorie target to be right about where it needs to be.

Lastly, your progress is perfectly reasonable given your situation. For someone in your shoes, I'd say a reasonable target for weight loss is an average of .5% per week. Your right in that neighborhood.

Relax. Sit back. Eat sensibly and stick with your calorie target. Get sufficient protein in. Train hard with an eye on recovery. Your results will come.

When I finish this 13week span I plan on doing the regular p90x workouts with heavier weights since I got better fat burn results last time I did that. But how do you know what calories to aim for when you switch up your program like that? Given, it's not going to be a huge change from what I'm doing now, just less cardio centered.

I'd leave calories where they are.

Rather than fretting over where calories "should be," focus on the feedback your body's providing you. It'll tell you whether you need to adjust calories or not. If you're not seeing progress, you know you're at or near maintenance and need to adjust - assuming you've given the calorie level enough time to reveal it's appropriateness.

Also, any suggestions on how to deal with water retention, my scale fluctuates wildly from morning to morning. Like 2-4lbs.

Are you in this to weigh a certain weight or to look a certain look?

Maybe you shouldn't weigh yourself daily. If it's screwing with your emotional and mental well being, you're likely a candidate for less frequent weighing.

I personally weigh everyday. Last week my weight varied from high to low by 8 lbs.

I couldn't care less since I care about the longer term trend of my physique and performance.

stroutman81

elsie_fair wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

elsie_fair wrote: »

Great thread!
Any recommendations for stretches/exercises for knee pain? I have been lifting for about 8 months and recently getting pain in one of my knees (it feels like the muscle/tendon/whatever along the back of my knee is super tight and painful). It often pops when I squat (although I have pretty "crackly" joints in general)

I am also recovering from a ruptured muscle in my arm, so basically legs are all I can do right now - I want to make sure I don't mess them up, too.

How did you rupture (I'm guessing) your bicep?

And it would be inappropriate for me to try and take a stab at what's going on with your knee. I'd simply suggest to get it looked at by a qualified professional... like a good physio. And definitely do NOT force through the pain!

I actually don't know exactly how - I had increased my overall volume (went from consistent 3 days a week to 4-5) and I had an upper body day after which I had some pretty serious DOMS in my triceps but nothing alarming, went thru the same routine the next week, and a couple days after that my arm swelled up to twice its size so I went to the doc. Now that I'm resting, I can actually feel the spot where it is and it's painful if I even try to reach too far, let alone lift anything, I don't know how I didn't know right away
I think my hamstring is tight, which may be causing the knee pain, I'm using my rest time to roll and stretch, some leg work and a little cardio just to give me something to do in the meantime. I've just been looking around for good exercises to strengthen the muscles around my knee and improve my flexibility.

I can appreciate that. I can't say enough about how important it is to be assessed by someone who knows what they're talking about. Why guess with it? A qualified professional will be able to assess your strengths and weaknesses, imbalances, etc and put you on a path that makes sense for your situation.

I know it's a pain, but it's well worth it if you ask me.

If I were setting out on a cross country road trip, I'd certainly take my truck to the mechanic for a look over.

mom3over40

Thank you so much for your detailed response! I really appreciate it.

stroutman81 wrote: »

All of my clients take pictures, measurements and weight on a biweekly basis. Some weigh daily if we determine they're best suited for it.

I'd be giving any given protocol at least 4 weeks to reveal whether it's going to be effective for you or not. And the effectiveness might come by way of minor measurement improvements. Or a 1% movement on the scale for an entire month. Or a realization that your boots are fitting looser around your calves. Or a vein in your arm that you hadn't noticed before. Or whatever. You take whatever it is, as small as it is, and keep your eyes planted on the process.

I weigh myself daily and like to see if the fluctuation is going up or down. I guess I am kind of nerdy in that sense, that's why I like measurable difference In fact, my weight range have dropped about 1 lb this past month and my biceps feel more tight when flexed, so, I guess I should take that as progress then...

They're actually heavier than they were when they started with me, yet they are happier than ever.

That's what I have heard! It is also why I am a little confused as to how to "measure" progress. As you said, just don't want to keep spinning the wheel when progress is missing or even actually going the wrong way. But your answer helped me understand that now. Thanks!

So you've been eating right around 1600 cals/day on average, is that right?

If so, I'd say you have plenty of room for coming down. Do so systematically. Try 1500 per day and see if that gets things moving.

Remember, it is and always will be a process of refinement.

Actually, I could usually make it under 1500 during the week... It is the weekend eating out that throws it off. Well, I guess you have said what I need to hear for me to keep working at my caloric goal!

Thanks again!

stroutman81

KrisAZ000 wrote: »

Hi Steve,

Love this thread! All of your advice is super informative. As a relatively lean woman trying to get leaner, I'm particularly appreciative of your knowledge in this area. I have a couple questions for you.

Thanks!

For background: I'm 34, F, 5'7", 144. I eat max 1200 calories a day. I started the deficit in the beginning of Sep, went completely off track for a month around the holidays, and have been back on track for a month. Total weight loss so far is 41 pounds. I lost solely through diet until December, at which point I added squats, lunges and hand weights. I only added cardio into my routine a few weeks ago. So the exercise stuff is all pretty new to me.

What made you choose 1200 calories?

My first question is about fat loss and getting a toned look. I don't know my body fat percentage, but by looking at myself I still feel that it needs to go down a bit more. I also feel that I look kinda flabby. From what I understand, I need to keep a good deficit in order to lose the fat %, and build muscle to look less flabby, but it's not really possible to do both at once. So I'm thinking that I need to focus on my deficit and cardio until the body fat drops a bit more, and then at that point I can transition to strength training and a much smaller deficit or maintenance. Is that the right way to go about it?

Frankly... no.

You should really check out this thread. It's a long read but I think it'll be well worth the investment of time.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/113609/relatively-light-people-trying-to-get-leaner/p1

But from a high level, here are some concepts for you to mull over:

1. In almost all cases, the goal should be to eat as much food/calories as possible while still allowing fat loss to happen at a reasonable rate. This is the case for a few reasons.

One big one is the fact that, as a culture, we are fantastic at losing weight. We do it all the time. But we are god awful at keeping it off. A large part of this has to do with the unsustainable methods most dieters use. They're simply relying on temporary measures. Temporary measures lead to temporary results since... once removed, behaviors revert back to old.

Secondly, big deficits tend to increase the risk of muscle loss. If you're in this primarily to look better with your clothes off, you have two factors to think about - fat and muscle. Everyone tends to jump right to the concept of fat loss and they try and demolish is with a blitz attack. This usually includes big deficits and lots of cardio.

But this approach totally neglects the muscle side of the coin. By being more conservative with your deficit, you help minimize muscle loss while dieting. In doing so, you minimize the chances of simply becoming a lighter, still soft version of your former self.

2. Stemming from what I said above regarding fat and muscle, not only does a more conservative approach to calorie management prevent muscle loss, but so too does resistance training. Progressive resistance training is part of a fat loss system to provide your body a REASON to hold onto the "good stuff."

Muscle is what provides your shape as fat is lost.

This is why you need to develop a holistic perspective and system of physique enhancement.

3. Now you're not just starting out. You've already lost a pretty substantial percentage of your total weight using pretty extreme methods while disregarding the muscle side of the coin. The question is, where do you go from here? I'll comment more on this after you reply with your initial reaction and questions.

Second question has to do with lower body fat. My body type is pear shaped, so I've lost considerably more from my upper body than my lower body. My hips and thighs are definitely smaller than they were, just didn't lose nearly as quickly in those areas. So my question is, do you have any specific recommendations for stubborn lower body fat (and reducing appearance of cellulite)? I've read that it's a different type of fat cells than other areas, and that's why it responds differently during weight loss. I don't know if that's accurate or not though.

There's some truth to what you're saying. However, you're not lean enough yet to worry about it yet. You also have a lot of "clean up" work you need to do with your current system before you go worrying about advanced stuff like training for stubborn fat.

It'd be sort of like changing your flat tire while your engine's on fire.

kcmccormack

stroutman81 wrote: »

kcmccormack wrote: »

Hi Steve,

Love your posts. They're amazingly insightful and knowledgeable. I guess I'll go ahead and ask you some of my burning questions since you're here and such an awesome source of info and feedback., I'd you don't mind.

Thanks, and don't mind at all. That's why I started the thread, which is quickly transforming into a rolling conversation.

Firstly, I'm 28,f, 5'6" and 135. I've been doing p90x- lean, for 8 weeks. (I know I know, old dvd and perhaps tacky, but I like it cause it's a little bit of everything. I get bored with workouts and if not for some kinda program/schedule, Im lost). I've been eating 1500 a day. Which leads to my first question, I haven't lost tons of weight, 4-5lbs in 8 weeks, but I see a much better muscle definition, everywhere. Seeing as my inches haven't dropped tons (-.5 inches in waist, -.5 or .75 inches in hips), is it possible to gain a lil muscle whilst in a deficit? I don't even know if I'm really considered to be in a deficit.

What were you doing prior to p90x?

Regardless, to answer your question, yes, you can certainly add muscle in the face of a deficit. This holds true especially for folks who haven't really trained much who jump into a progressive resistance program. So if you weren't doing much lifting before p90x, this likely has some play with your situation.

Secondly, what makes you think that 1500 calories wouldn't represent a deficit for you? The general sweet spot for active folks interested in fat loss is 10-12 cals/lb. You're smack dab in the middle. Without knowing more, I'd expect your calorie target to be right about where it needs to be.

Lastly, your progress is perfectly reasonable given your situation. For someone in your shoes, I'd say a reasonable target for weight loss is an average of .5% per week. Your right in that neighborhood.

Relax. Sit back. Eat sensibly and stick with your calorie target. Get sufficient protein in. Train hard with an eye on recovery. Your results will come.

When I finish this 13week span I plan on doing the regular p90x workouts with heavier weights since I got better fat burn results last time I did that. But how do you know what calories to aim for when you switch up your program like that? Given, it's not going to be a huge change from what I'm doing now, just less cardio centered.

I'd leave calories where they are.

Rather than fretting over where calories "should be," focus on the feedback your body's providing you. It'll tell you whether you need to adjust calories or not. If you're not seeing progress, you know you're at or near maintenance and need to adjust - assuming you've given the calorie level enough time to reveal it's appropriateness.

Also, any suggestions on how to deal with water retention, my scale fluctuates wildly from morning to morning. Like 2-4lbs.

Are you in this to weigh a certain weight or to look a certain look?

Maybe you shouldn't weigh yourself daily. If it's screwing with your emotional and mental well being, you're likely a candidate for less frequent weighing.

I personally weigh everyday. Last week my weight varied from high to low by 8 lbs.

I couldn't care less since I care about the longer term trend of my physique and performance.

Awesome insight, thank you tons for taking the time to answer. About the deficit. I should've clarified I know I'm in a deficit, I was just unclear if it was significant enough. The more I read the more I kinda confused myself about how much I should eat. But 1500 seems to be a good/happy spot considering I eat about 4 smaller meals a day. Protein seems to stick to 15-20% of my calories a day? Should I aim for more?

As for what my goals are, I haven't set a weight since I don't know what to expect my body to look like below like 130. I was a swimmer/diver for 11 years and disliked my body when it was too thin cause it looked too athletic on account of my straight body/wide shoulders. More just general lifestyle goal. I was doing vinyasa yoga 3-4 days and running 3 miles 3-4days before p90x. In the summer months I do less cause I'm a waitress/caterer in a resort town and tend to have 2jobs and work on my feet running around like a crazy person for 12-13hrs a day. But I digress, the look I'm going for is lower body fat, tighter, leaner (get rid of the general "I loved beer in college" look), which is really gonna come down to diet right?

Weighing daily doesn't screw with my head much, cause I know now it fluctuates so much, Im just curious why I go up and down so much? Is it water? I'm typically pretty vigilant about sodium.

kcmccormack

Oh, and another goal is to strengthen my legs to support a bad knee I screwed up snowboarding in college.

kcmccormack

Also, personal question for you: do you cut alcohol out of your diet? Or do you enjoy it in moderation?