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That makes sense. Kinda going with the flow of your training. Cut when u need, push when you can, rest when you have to. I got you. Thanks for all of the advice. You make things simple again. Sometimes it gets so complicated that we need ppl like you telling us to simplify, listen to your body, use common sense, remember science. Haha
Trust me, there are times I get too deep down the rabbit hole myself - with my own training, some client issues, my writing, etc. I constantly have to give myself a timeout and sort of reset. At the end of the day, pretty much everything boils down to a goal, some powerful whys, and really tiny yet consistent behaviors. If you have those 3 things in place, it's hard to screw things up. Everything else is just the nuances.
But yeah, it's easy to major in the minors if you're not careful.0 -
mom3over40 wrote: »
If muscle cannot be built during maintenance after newby gains, does it mean the person will eventually stop making progress in his/her performance too?Maintenance means maintenance
I am just curious.
Nope. Performance is separate from muscle. And I'm assuming we're talking about strength gains when we say performance.
Yes, bigger muscles means stronger muscles. To put it in nerdy terms, the greater the cross sectional area of our muscle fibers, the greater potential they have for generating force. But beyond bigger muscle fibers, there are a number of other factors that go into strength improvement.
To understand these things, it's important to keep in mind that strength is a manifestation of the neuromuscular system. The muscular part we talked about. But the neural part is your brain, spinal cord, and the nerves that branch out from there to your muscles.
A number of adaptations occur "upstream" from the muscles in response to strength training. You have things like rate coding (increased frequency of electrical impulses being sent through the nervous system to the muscles which leads to stronger contractions) and synchronous recruitment (the nervous system will "learn" to fire the available fiber together to create more forceful contractions).
The short answer is, yes... the body can "learn" to be stronger without a concomitant increase in muscle size.0 -
That's a good thing. I means your body will be highly sensitive to resistance training. The best gains come in the first year or so of consistent training. So yeah, I think it's a great thing you embarking down this path. Hopefully your trainer isn't normal and can actually teach you proper movement mechanics (hip hinging, bracing the core, squatting, pressing, pulling, etc.)
No matter, you definitely want to start out pretty basic. I have some articles early on in my blog here at MFP that would really help. Here was one that I'm thinking of:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/stroutman81/view/resistance-training-foundation-19725
Granted, that article is nearly 5 years old at this point so some of my thinking has changed a bit. But it's still a solid foundational piece that's worth reading.
I'm glad to hear that it's a good thing for me to just be starting out.
Interesting article too, slowly but surely I'm gaining some understanding of what I need to be doing.0 -
You mention genetics a lot. That always intrigues me. For a female I (think) I build muscle more easily than most. Certainly than my peers - visually at least! My brother has always been muscular despite not really doing much to achieve that...
That's not a question as such but if you have any interesting thoughts on that it would be good to hear.
PS. Well done on the kudos to your Mum
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stroutman81 wrote: »Does progressive weight training at maintenance calories build muscles, particularly in women?
I'm asking because I really enjoy weight training, am naturally quite muscular and was aware of changes whilst at a defecit (noob gains and fat loss showing more I assume). I would like to continue training without noticeably building much more musculature.
sorry, if it's a dumb question
Definitely not a dumb question.
Let's put it this way. Hypertrophy is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. If your body doesn't have a supportive level of calories for this process, it's not going to go adding slabs of this metabolically tissue just because you're lifting some weights. Make sense?
But, as you noticed during your deficit, for reasons that can't entirely be explained, novices can get away with some wonky voodoo. I wish I could bottle it up and drink it for breakfast! How far removed are you from this stage? Hard to say, really. As I've noted a few times in this thread, usually it's the first year of consistent training that really lights up the relatively fast progress and wonky adaptations with or without a corresponding calorie level.
I've seen folks ride this novice wave a bit longer past the one year mark too, though.
End of the day, I don't think you have a lot to worry about if you're eating maintenance.
Now, I will say this... our culture sucks at maintenance. If you're able to easily maintain your weight, you're an outlier. Granted, I'd wager that the population at MFP is better at it than the population at large. But if you're creeping into surplus territory AND you have the genetics to grow muscle easily... it doesn't take a genius to figure out some growth is going to happen.
Thank you .. I'm 8 months in and think I still get the funky voodoo..or the genetic win .. no matter .. being strong is one of the best feelings I've ever had0 -
amandarunning wrote: »You mention genetics a lot. That always intrigues me. For a female I (think) I build muscle more easily than most. Certainly than my peers - visually at least! My brother has always been muscular despite not really doing much to achieve that...
That's not a question as such but if you have any interesting thoughts on that it would be good to hear.
PS. Well done on the kudos to your Mum
Ooooh yes, I would say this describes me too. I have photographs from high school where my legs and arms look like an Olympic athlete - and I didn't really do much except cycle a bit.
Even now in my late 30s I have 'guns' (albeit covered by a thin layer of fat, but they're there) and I don't lift weights. I do have a physical job but I'm still comparatively much stronger than the other lady gardeners...
I've often wondered if there is science behind it or if it's in my head/ weird self perception thing?
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stroutman81 wrote: »LiftAndBalance wrote: »Thanks for the response! I'm gonna try to shoot a decent video of me this weekend.
Sounds good!In general, I tend to upp my weights more by how I feel than a strict plan, within the prescribed rep range. For OHPs I'm still stuck with tiny dumbbells so increments of 1 kg per side. First, I tried to get over a plateau by cheating a bit and using a little push on the last one or two reps of each set. That seemed to work well as I was able to decrease the reps I needed to push. Once I was able to complete all reps with strict form, I tried to increase the weights and could not even get out one rep without push. So I went back to the previous weight and was not even able to complete the same amount of reps with strict form but needed to push for the last few again. I now think that this strategy clearly isn't working... I did a few strength assessments and here are the stats: When I started lifting in July, I could do 8 reps with 2 kg. In August, I was up to 11 reps with 3 kg. At the end of September, I have 3 reps with 5 kg. And in January, I could only do 3 reps with 4 kg and failed even a first rep with 5 kg.
I really need to see your form to make any sort of reasonable assessment.
Also, are you dieting?
I just dropped you an email
I've been maintaining over the last couple of months but have started eating at a deficit again this week. 0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »Can we talk about this stubborn fat solution a little bit? I'm a mom and although I am reasonably lean (5'7", 140 lb, 20% bf by caliper method), my fat isn't sitting evenly and it makes me sad. Most of it is on my lower abdomen like a little pillow. It's pouchy and while some of that is loose skin it's mostly pudge. And yet I can see all of my ribs and spinous processes ect. I've been operating under the impression that if I just get lean enough that baby pouch will eventually dry out. And it's sort of working. Except it's slow and it sucks. I do feel hungry. Too hungry and I don't think I would want to stay that lean and deprived feeling. So my question is this, if you lose stubborn fat and then gain some weight, can you get a more even distribution or will it go right back to those stubborn areas? Which is another way of asking, is it worth it?
Unfortunately you're likely not going to change the genetically derived storage pattern for fat. I wish I had a different answer, but I'm a realist. Fist on, last off. Last off, first one. That's the way it generally goes. And only you can answer if it's worth it. For many, it's not.
I posted my pic above. I'm lean, but not crazy lean. The price paid to be as I am not is worth it. The price required to get leaner is not. And that's obviously my personal judgement.
^^ More proof you're awesome! Realism rocks
A lot of women find themselves with chicken bones up top and pork chops below, even after a lot of work. That's just how it is. I personally think it's best to accept that distribution, and to try to see beauty in that form. (And to just pack as much muscle as possible into the pork chops so they're firm. I think for a lot of women over a certain age, sadly, it's often a choice between the face and the ****. 20-22% body fat is a good balance for that, imo).
Yeah, there's a lot of truth to this for sure. Acceptance is such a hard thing to grasp for some people. Flawed expectations are so ingrained.
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amandarunning wrote: »You mention genetics a lot. That always intrigues me. For a female I (think) I build muscle more easily than most. Certainly than my peers - visually at least! My brother has always been muscular despite not really doing much to achieve that...
That's not a question as such but if you have any interesting thoughts on that it would be good to hear.
PS. Well done on the kudos to your Mum
No additional thoughts beyond, some people have been "coded" to build muscle more easily than others. No different than being "coded" for tallness or shortness.0 -
Hi Steve, I've been lurking in this thread for a while and learning a lot. Thank you very much for your time and the so well thought out and balanced comments. Reading your posts is a pleasure.
I have a different type of question, about something that is not discussed as much: stretching. I know very little about stretching besides it's important to do static stretches when your body is already warm, i.e. post exercise, while dynamic stretching is useful as a warmup. And that consistency is very important, just like in diet, exercise and pretty much everything else. But how about frequency and duration? Do these play any role when the goal is to improve flexibility and increase the range of motion? How do you go about creating a consistent plan for stretching with such a goal in mind?
To give some context in my question, I'm asking because my legs especially are very stiff and I can hardly raise them above 90 degrees. I started karate last year, initially to just try it out but it turned out I enjoy it very much. And in training I now see the problems I have with my fitness: endurance, strength and flexibility all need work. I more or less know what to do for the first two, but I'm puzzled with stretching. Any advice?
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ElliInJapan wrote: »Hi Steve, I've been lurking in this thread for a while and learning a lot. Thank you very much for your time and the so well thought out and balanced comments. Reading your posts is a pleasure.
You're welcome... thank YOU for the kind words.I have a different type of question, about something that is not discussed as much: stretching. I know very little about stretching besides it's important to do static stretches when your body is already warm, i.e. post exercise, while dynamic stretching is useful as a warmup. And that consistency is very important, just like in diet, exercise and pretty much everything else. But how about frequency and duration? Do these play any role when the goal is to improve flexibility and increase the range of motion? How do you go about creating a consistent plan for stretching with such a goal in mind?
You can't really speak about individual stretching needs. It's just like any other facet of programming... it requires the context of the person in question and their specific needs.
Here's an excellent article from Eric Cressey that highlights this fact better than I ever could have:
http://www.ericcressey.com/15-static-stretching-mistakes
I do stretch my hips, lats, and pecs on a regular basis as these muscles tend to lose their length on me. I just throw it in as many days as possible across the week where I'm rotating through stretches for each respective area for a count of 45 seconds or so while focusing on breathing and posture. I'll rip through 2-5 circuits/sets at a time.To give some context in my question, I'm asking because my legs especially are very stiff and I can hardly raise them above 90 degrees. I started karate last year, initially to just try it out but it turned out I enjoy it very much. And in training I now see the problems I have with my fitness: endurance, strength and flexibility all need work. I more or less know what to do for the first two, but I'm puzzled with stretching. Any advice?
If you *really* wanted to make sure you're on the right track, I'd suggest seeking an assessment from a qualified therapist, chiro, trainer, or coach. They'll be able to pinpoint why you're lacking mobility in certain places and then tailor a solution to that specific issue.0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »Does progressive weight training at maintenance calories build muscles, particularly in women?
I'm asking because I really enjoy weight training, am naturally quite muscular and was aware of changes whilst at a defecit (noob gains and fat loss showing more I assume). I would like to continue training without noticeably building much more musculature.
sorry, if it's a dumb question
Definitely not a dumb question.
Let's put it this way. Hypertrophy is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. If your body doesn't have a supportive level of calories for this process, it's not going to go adding slabs of this metabolically tissue just because you're lifting some weights. Make sense?
But, as you noticed during your deficit, for reasons that can't entirely be explained, novices can get away with some wonky voodoo. I wish I could bottle it up and drink it for breakfast! How far removed are you from this stage? Hard to say, really. As I've noted a few times in this thread, usually it's the first year of consistent training that really lights up the relatively fast progress and wonky adaptations with or without a corresponding calorie level.
I've seen folks ride this novice wave a bit longer past the one year mark too, though.
End of the day, I don't think you have a lot to worry about if you're eating maintenance.
Now, I will say this... our culture sucks at maintenance. If you're able to easily maintain your weight, you're an outlier. Granted, I'd wager that the population at MFP is better at it than the population at large. But if you're creeping into surplus territory AND you have the genetics to grow muscle easily... it doesn't take a genius to figure out some growth is going to happen.
BEST info yet! You are awesome Steve!!!!0 -
So I’ve just started a 3 day lifting plan (done 5 days so far and I really like it!) and I was wondering about supersetting ab exercises in to maximize my time. However, most ab stuff I know how to do involve getting on the floor, which is awkward in the weight area, or using a kettlebell or other weight, which I don’t want to do (I think my forearms and wrists are going to have the most trouble for the first few weeks, don’t want to overdo it grip wise).
I have come up with two exercises on my own (one balance and a one legged shoulder bridge dip using the bench), and was wondering if anyone has any other ideas. I already do lots of squats and lunges in my cardio class, so I don’t want to do those. Thanks!0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »stroutman81 wrote: »Does progressive weight training at maintenance calories build muscles, particularly in women?
I'm asking because I really enjoy weight training, am naturally quite muscular and was aware of changes whilst at a defecit (noob gains and fat loss showing more I assume). I would like to continue training without noticeably building much more musculature.
sorry, if it's a dumb question
Definitely not a dumb question.
Let's put it this way. Hypertrophy is a very intensive process, energetically speaking. If your body doesn't have a supportive level of calories for this process, it's not going to go adding slabs of this metabolically tissue just because you're lifting some weights. Make sense?
But, as you noticed during your deficit, for reasons that can't entirely be explained, novices can get away with some wonky voodoo. I wish I could bottle it up and drink it for breakfast! How far removed are you from this stage? Hard to say, really. As I've noted a few times in this thread, usually it's the first year of consistent training that really lights up the relatively fast progress and wonky adaptations with or without a corresponding calorie level.
I've seen folks ride this novice wave a bit longer past the one year mark too, though.
End of the day, I don't think you have a lot to worry about if you're eating maintenance.
Now, I will say this... our culture sucks at maintenance. If you're able to easily maintain your weight, you're an outlier. Granted, I'd wager that the population at MFP is better at it than the population at large. But if you're creeping into surplus territory AND you have the genetics to grow muscle easily... it doesn't take a genius to figure out some growth is going to happen.
BEST info yet! You are awesome Steve!!!!
I hate when I read back over one of my posts and see missing words and crap like that. I really should edit my posts!!
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So I’ve just started a 3 day lifting plan (done 5 days so far and I really like it!) and I was wondering about supersetting ab exercises in to maximize my time. However, most ab stuff I know how to do involve getting on the floor, which is awkward in the weight area, or using a kettlebell or other weight, which I don’t want to do (I think my forearms and wrists are going to have the most trouble for the first few weeks, don’t want to overdo it grip wise).
I have come up with two exercises on my own (one balance and a one legged shoulder bridge dip using the bench), and was wondering if anyone has any other ideas. I already do lots of squats and lunges in my cardio class, so I don’t want to do those. Thanks!
Sorry, but I don't think I follow all of your questions.
I mean... I see the one about core in between your other resistance exercises. And to give you a general answer, I'd say it's fine so long as it's not interfering with your recovery and ability to exert maximal force next set.
In almost all of my programs (for myself or my clients) I'm relying on at least some supersetting.
I wouldn't feel awkward getting on the floor in the weight area. I don't train much anymore in public gyms, but I'd do it pretty regularly then. Or, if there's an area off to the side, just skip over there between sets.
I'm not sure what you mean by your forearms and wrists having trouble in the context of core exercises. Can you explain?
Then it looks like your post veers away from talking about core training as you bring squats and lunges and such into the mix. This is where I'm most confused. I'll say this, though... because you do squats and lunges in cardio routines, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be served doing them in strength training fashion. It's not the movement pattern that's driving the adaptation... it's the QUANTITY or MAGNITUDE of stress being delivered by the movement in question.
It's sort of like walking. Walking is really just short lunges, right? Well we all walk places. This doesn't mean we shouldn't do lunges in our resistance training routines.0 -
Hey I have a question about body fat %
Im 20 and weigh 122/123-125lbs and I am 172cm (just a smidge under 5ft8)
I measured myself and my body fat % apparently was 14.5% which must be impossible as Im very untoned and not athletic. Also my BMI is meant to be like 19, so thought that would be too high for a 15% body fat.
Is there any more accurate calculators? and is, 15% okay body fat for someone my age?
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stroutman81 wrote: »
Here's an excellent article from Eric Cressey that highlights this fact better than I ever could have:
http://www.ericcressey.com/15-static-stretching-mistakes
I just wanted to say thank you for posting that, some really helpful advice there!0 -
stroutman81 wrote: »So I’ve just started a 3 day lifting plan (done 5 days so far and I really like it!) and I was wondering about supersetting ab exercises in to maximize my time. However, most ab stuff I know how to do involve getting on the floor, which is awkward in the weight area, or using a kettlebell or other weight, which I don’t want to do (I think my forearms and wrists are going to have the most trouble for the first few weeks, don’t want to overdo it grip wise).
I have come up with two exercises on my own (one balance and a one legged shoulder bridge dip using the bench), and was wondering if anyone has any other ideas. I already do lots of squats and lunges in my cardio class, so I don’t want to do those. Thanks!
Sorry, but I don't think I follow all of your questions.
I mean... I see the one about core in between your other resistance exercises. And to give you a general answer, I'd say it's fine so long as it's not interfering with your recovery and ability to exert maximal force next set.
In almost all of my programs (for myself or my clients) I'm relying on at least some supersetting.
I wouldn't feel awkward getting on the floor in the weight area. I don't train much anymore in public gyms, but I'd do it pretty regularly then. Or, if there's an area off to the side, just skip over there between sets.
I'm not sure what you mean by your forearms and wrists having trouble in the context of core exercises. Can you explain?
Then it looks like your post veers away from talking about core training as you bring squats and lunges and such into the mix. This is where I'm most confused. I'll say this, though... because you do squats and lunges in cardio routines, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be served doing them in strength training fashion. It's not the movement pattern that's driving the adaptation... it's the QUANTITY or MAGNITUDE of stress being delivered by the movement in question.
It's sort of like walking. Walking is really just short lunges, right? Well we all walk places. This doesn't mean we shouldn't do lunges in our resistance training routines.
Sorry about that! I guess I'm still not clear on what I should be doing super set wise. My trainer said to do some, and gave me an example, but we didn't have time to go over more. Whenever I google super set exercises they are all things like pull-ups or something else that requires weight, so I'm trying to stay away from that to give my arms time to recover. I have squats and lunges in my weight lifting routine on leg day. I guess those were just some body weight exercises that don't have to involve arms that came to mind as I was thinking of exercises to superset with.
Maybe I'll have to do some more reading, or just skip the supersets altogether until my next training session at the end of March.
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Dammit, just found this post and its interesting stuff, but its 10 pages and its way too late so
Tagging for later :-)0 -
Hey I have a question about body fat %
Im 20 and weigh 122/123-125lbs and I am 172cm (just a smidge under 5ft8)
I measured myself and my body fat % apparently was 14.5% which must be impossible as Im very untoned and not athletic. Also my BMI is meant to be like 19, so thought that would be too high for a 15% body fat.
Is there any more accurate calculators? and is, 15% okay body fat for someone my age?
How are you measuring this bf% reading?0
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