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Fat Acceptance Movement
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I think that people should be respected regardless of their body size, but the fat acceptance movement just promotes the idea that being obese is healthy and okay, which is false.3
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Denying reality doesn't make it go away. The healthcare system is overburdened, largely because of lifestyle choices. We're not talking about ten or 20 extra
Pounds here. Fat people know they are fat, and of course, schoolyard style taunts are unkind and ridiculous. But making obese a protected status is ridiculous. Also, the risk of "making" your child anorexic is minuscule compared to making him or her obese.9 -
Not to derail but there's another term I've come across recently that seems to intersect -- "Coercive Healthism." It's the idea that being optimally healthy is a moral responsibility.
I'm going to be a shitlord and say yes, it is kind of a moral responsibility.1 -
Treasonous wrote: »Denying reality doesn't make it go away. The healthcare system is overburdened, largely because of lifestyle choices. We're not talking about ten or 20 extra
Pounds here. Fat people know they are fat, and of course, schoolyard style taunts are unkind and ridiculous. But making obese a protected status is ridiculous. Also, the risk of "making" your child anorexic is minuscule compared to making him or her obese.
You do realize that among adolescents the rate of anorexia and bulimia are quite high?
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Not to derail but there's another term I've come across recently that seems to intersect -- "Coercive Healthism." It's the idea that being optimally healthy is a moral responsibility.
I'm going to be a shitlord and say yes, it is kind of a moral responsibility.
I really disagree with this. It's nothing but righteous fat-shaming, and implies that a fat version of Mother Teresa is a bad person for failing to control their weight.
eta: I doubt that people who feel they are worthless because they're not as healthy as they could be (and who decides what that is?) are going to be motivated by that to improve their health, especially because having been fat, they're probably never going to see the "optimal" health they could have achieved if they had never gotten fat in the first place.3 -
I really disagree with this. It's nothing but righteous fat-shaming, and implies that a fat version of Mother Teresa is a bad person for failing to control their weight.
Notice I said "optimally healthy." That will mean something different for everyone based on individual factors, and it won't necessarily mean slim or uber athletic.
I know Christianity does, but don't most organized religions have something to say about treating one's body nicely -- like a temple?
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I really disagree with this. It's nothing but righteous fat-shaming, and implies that a fat version of Mother Teresa is a bad person for failing to control their weight.
Notice I said "optimally healthy." That will mean something different for everyone based on individual factors, and it won't necessarily mean slim or uber athletic.
I know Christianity does, but don't most organized religions have something to say about treating one's body nicely -- like a temple?
But see, that's the point! You're saying everyone should observe the rules of one or another organized religion - and again, who gets to decide which one? And realistically, if "optimally healthy" means something different for everyone, it really doesn't have much meaning.3 -
The Sunday-Go-To-Meeting dinners on the grounds that I used to attend as a child were far from "optimally healthy". If it wasn't swimming in grease (mostly lard)...or half a pound of sugar in each dessert...it didn't go on the table.
Some people might also believe that treating one's body nicely is giving it what it craves.
As a society...trying to impose "rules"...could lead to a world we don't want.
I agree...health issues pertaining to obesity are out of control. I just don't think that we can arbitrarily decide for someone else how they live their lives.
Assigning weight management to the "moral" category...I am not sure I agree with that though I do understand why someone might.2 -
I have chosen to self identify as skinny and also selected that as my accepted personal pronoun.6
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The Sunday-Go-To-Meeting dinners on the grounds that I used to attend as a child were far from "optimally healthy". If it wasn't swimming in grease (mostly lard)...or half a pound of sugar in each dessert...it didn't go on the table.
Some people might also believe that treating one's body nicely is giving it what it craves.
As a society...trying to impose "rules"...could lead to a world we don't want.
I agree...health issues pertaining to obesity are out of control. I just don't think that we can arbitrarily decide for someone else how they live their lives.
Assigning weight management to the "moral" category...I am not sure I agree with that though I do understand why someone might.
My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
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My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
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Tacklewasher wrote: »My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
As a libertarian I would allow the medical practitioner to decide.1 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
As a libertarian I would allow the medical practitioner to decide.
This.
And yes, they would likely be charged more. Dealing with the obese is more labor intensive, most drug effective dosages are weight based, they require more sturdy structures to hold them up and move them, etc.4 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
Would it be fair to charge someone more for choosing to drive a car too fast and crashing? Or how about someone that chose not to be vaccinated for a disease and then they came down with that disease?
What about alcoholics...sky divers...skiers...etc...etc???
They all chose to engage in habits that potentially could cause harm.
I might agree that maybe their health insurance premium should be based on their life style if that same criteria was applied to other risky behaviors.4 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
I would have to think about this but my knee jerk reaction is that there would be no stopping point at who you charged more to (alcoholics, anyone in a high risk job) and you would end up charging everyone the same again:).4 -
Tacklewasher wrote: »My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
Would it be fair to charge someone more for choosing to drive a car too fast and crashing? Or how about someone that chose not to be vaccinated for a disease and then they came down with that disease?
What about alcoholics...sky divers...skiers...etc...etc???
They all chose to engage in habits that potentially could cause harm.
I might agree that maybe their health insurance premium should be based on their life style if that same criteria was applied to other risky behaviors.
If your asking me, then yes. For drivers, if they show a history of poor driving their insurance rates are higher. I'm quite happy to see doctors charge extra, or refuse service for the anti-vaccers.
Only issue with health insurance is I'm Canadian and the Province is in charge of the billing, so I get nervous if the government is charging different rates for different people (although our auto insurance is provincial as well and they do).
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leanjogreen18 wrote: »Tacklewasher wrote: »My inner libertarian shudders at society attempting to impose rules like this. No endeavor more foolish than implementation of a law you cannot possibly enforce. The business world is moving away from the stick and moving towards the carrot. Incentives for good behavior always produces greater results.
Let people have the freedom to decide for themselves...and to enjoy the benefits and suffer the consequences of their actions.
For a Libertarian, would it be fair to charge the obese more for medical assistance when the cause of the illness can be linked to their weight?
I would have to think about this but my knee jerk reaction is that there would be no stopping point at who you charged more to (alcoholics, anyone in a high risk job) and you would end up charging everyone the same again:).
This is why doctors have historically charged fees based on services rendered. Sick people use more services and thus pay more. People who engage in risky behaviors need more medical services sagely and therefore paid more as a group, though any individual may have any experience. But they never said "you're an alcoholic so I'll charge you twice s much for this than I'd charge a nonalcoholic"
Insurance divorced this direct experience for everyone. Now people want to punish others because they don't feel being sick is enough punishment.3 -
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