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Fat Acceptance Movement
Replies
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midwesterner85 wrote: »https://www.facebook.com/SlackerAndSteveFans/posts/10159474378270394
I just landed on that FB post. It says that a survey done showed 1 in 5 people who were obese thought they were only overweight and 1 in 10 thought they were normal weight.
What I really found striking though was the comments from people. Quite a few had the stance that some people are just thicker, society needs to leave people alike & not worry about their size, the BMI calculator has changed to make it appear more people are obese, etc.
One even said, “That is why so many people are "fat" in the USA. It isn't that we are bigger than 60 years ago, but they label it different now”
It reminded me of this post so I thought I’d share. There is a movement, for lack of a better word, that being obese is just a fact of life for so many and it should be accepted, companies should use heavier and heavier models and make larger clothes marked as a smaller size.
It truly surprises me that it is so low. My personal, non-scientific observation where I live is that nearly everyone who is overweight or obese thinks they are a healthy weight.
I have the opposite perception, but then I'm in a social circle/demographic that is less likely to be overweight than the average (although everyone in general is fatter than they used to be, I would agree). When I've been overweight (let alone obese) I was super conscious of it, and most of the overweight/obese people I know are trying to lose (as are lots of the normal weight but pudgier than they'd like sorts). Anyway, those numbers seem consistent with what I would have guessed, knowing that my particular milieu is not typical.
Also, my personal experience is that doctors mention it (which I don't think is bad). Mine noted it even when I was BMI 26 or so and in great shape/test results otherwise. She wasn't saying it was necessarily a problem, but brought it up, and I told her I was working on losing and we discussed that.2 -
midwesterner85 wrote: »[quote=".
It truly surprises me that it is so low. My personal, non-scientific observation where I live is that nearly everyone who is overweight or obese thinks they are a healthy weight.[/quote]
Yes, I agree! And I am currently overweight -- when I tell people I want to lose weight I normally hear why or that I will get 'too thin' and that is from family who aren't trying to stoke my ego.
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midwesterner85 wrote: »
It truly surprises me that it is so low. My personal, non-scientific observation where I live is that nearly everyone who is overweight or obese thinks they are a healthy weight.
Yes, I agree! And I am currently overweight -- when I tell people I want to lose weight I normally hear why or that I will get 'too thin' and that is from family who aren't trying to stoke my ego.
As I'm now in the normal/healthy range for both BMI and body fat % (towards the high end of those ranges), I still would like to lose some more fat to be closer to the low end of that "healthy range." Whenever I express that I'm trying to lose a little more fat, I get similar responses to what you describe. Apparently healthy/normal has become the new 'thin' while overweight has become 'normal' and obese has become 'slightly overweight.' At one point, I even found a co-worker trying to argue that I must be anorexic and that I should aim to actually gain weight. SMH5 -
People seem so sensitive these days, like much more than I remember them being 20 years ago. One can be against a behavior, or a state of being and have that not at all be about "hatred" towards a particular person or group of people.
I am against being fat and here is why. I am for government that provides basic services for people that allow people anywhere in the country to not be distracted by things like shelter, food and health and be able to focus on their development and the development of their communities through hard work and perseverance. To that end I feel the government should help in the form of subsidies for things like education, housing, food and healthcare and that we as a society pay into that to make sure everyone has the same basic opportunities that we were afforded growing up regardless of what our parents did.
For that to be the case though there has to be a pact that we will support things in our society that are conducive to this arrangement and reject anything that harms this arrangement. Being obese predisposes one to a lot of very harmful, very real negative health effects all of which come with cost in the hospital and through the need for chronic medication. That places a burden on the system that is providing the safety net for everyone else. That is wrong and it is unnecessary. Society should, therefore, discourage becoming fat. How do we discourage it? In the same way you discourage any behavior, by speaking about it negatively...you don't pretend its not a problem and you certainly don't glorify it.
If we lived in some anarchy where there was no government then okay sure, get fat it doesn't really affect me other than to make it easier for me to take your stuff. But as long as we live in a social democratic society there are some ground rules when it comes to participation in that society and what it means to be an adult. I am not saying everyone needs to be 100% perfect, that isn't really possible nor reasonable to expect, but we have to at least be able to recognize and voice what the flaws are and be able to admit that things that negatively effect public health are flaws. People wanting to improve themselves should be celebrated, not be discouraged by trite claims of "no no you are beautiful just the way you are!" How does that help them exactly? Is the goal to simply become so complacent that nothing bothers you? Being bothered by things is what makes us strive to be better, we are supposed to be bothered by things.12 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »People seem so sensitive these days, like much more than I remember them being 20 years ago. One can be against a behavior, or a state of being and have that not at all be about "hatred" towards a particular person or group of people.
I am against being fat and here is why. I am for government that provides basic services for people that allow people anywhere in the country to not be distracted by things like shelter, food and health and be able to focus on their development and the development of their communities through hard work and perseverance. To that end I feel the government should help in the form of subsidies for things like education, housing, food and healthcare and that we as a society pay into that to make sure everyone has the same basic opportunities that we were afforded growing up regardless of what our parents did.
For that to be the case though there has to be a pact that we will support things in our society that are conducive to this arrangement and reject anything that harms this arrangement. Being obese predisposes one to a lot of very harmful, very real negative health effects all of which come with cost in the hospital and through the need for chronic medication. That places a burden on the system that is providing the safety net for everyone else. That is wrong and it is unnecessary. Society should, therefore, discourage becoming fat. How do we discourage it? In the same way you discourage any behavior, by speaking about it negatively...you don't pretend its not a problem and you certainly don't glorify it.
If we lived in some anarchy where there was no government then okay sure, get fat it doesn't really affect me other than to make it easier for me to take your stuff. But as long as we live in a social democratic society there are some ground rules when it comes to participation in that society and what it means to be an adult. I am not saying everyone needs to be 100% perfect, that isn't really possible nor reasonable to expect, but we have to at least be able to recognize and voice what the flaws are and be able to admit that things that negatively effect public health are flaws. People wanting to improve themselves should be celebrated, not be discouraged by trite claims of "no no you are beautiful just the way you are!"
I get your general point, but the bold is not quite correct. Being fat is NOT a behaviour - it's a state of being. Every person who was once fat and now isn't has, at some point, been fat and behaving "correctly"*. We need to support people who are fat, which probably does include speaking negatively about behaviours that lead to it and positively about ones that will help sort it out. Those negative behaviours might be lack of exercise or thoughtless indulgence. They might also be self-hating behaviours and I think we do need to be careful not to encourage self hate by the way we talk. Otherwise we could just have fat people hiding for longer instead of getting out and doing something about it. Basically, discourage the behaviours, not fat people!
*here we can say correctly=appropriate diet/exercise to rectify situation4 -
Rosemary7391 wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »People seem so sensitive these days, like much more than I remember them being 20 years ago. One can be against a behavior, or a state of being and have that not at all be about "hatred" towards a particular person or group of people.
I am against being fat and here is why. I am for government that provides basic services for people that allow people anywhere in the country to not be distracted by things like shelter, food and health and be able to focus on their development and the development of their communities through hard work and perseverance. To that end I feel the government should help in the form of subsidies for things like education, housing, food and healthcare and that we as a society pay into that to make sure everyone has the same basic opportunities that we were afforded growing up regardless of what our parents did.
For that to be the case though there has to be a pact that we will support things in our society that are conducive to this arrangement and reject anything that harms this arrangement. Being obese predisposes one to a lot of very harmful, very real negative health effects all of which come with cost in the hospital and through the need for chronic medication. That places a burden on the system that is providing the safety net for everyone else. That is wrong and it is unnecessary. Society should, therefore, discourage becoming fat. How do we discourage it? In the same way you discourage any behavior, by speaking about it negatively...you don't pretend its not a problem and you certainly don't glorify it.
If we lived in some anarchy where there was no government then okay sure, get fat it doesn't really affect me other than to make it easier for me to take your stuff. But as long as we live in a social democratic society there are some ground rules when it comes to participation in that society and what it means to be an adult. I am not saying everyone needs to be 100% perfect, that isn't really possible nor reasonable to expect, but we have to at least be able to recognize and voice what the flaws are and be able to admit that things that negatively effect public health are flaws. People wanting to improve themselves should be celebrated, not be discouraged by trite claims of "no no you are beautiful just the way you are!"
I get your general point, but the bold is not quite correct. Being fat is NOT a behaviour - it's a state of being. Every person who was once fat and now isn't has, at some point, been fat and behaving "correctly"*. We need to support people who are fat, which probably does include speaking negatively about behaviours that lead to it and positively about ones that will help sort it out. Those negative behaviours might be lack of exercise or thoughtless indulgence. They might also be self-hating behaviours and I think we do need to be careful not to encourage self hate by the way we talk. Otherwise we could just have fat people hiding for longer instead of getting out and doing something about it. Basically, discourage the behaviours, not fat people!
*here we can say correctly=appropriate diet/exercise to rectify situation
It is a state of being...caused by behaviors, specifically their own behaviors. I tend to speak more negatively towards the behavior than the actual state since it is the behaviors that really need to be addressed. I do not believe that there is such a thing as a person who is fat beyond their own personal control. I agree that to truly help someone you can't just say "stop being fat" you have to understand what their hangup is and help them work through that and that for some being very negative about obesity might cause more harm than good given their current state of mind.
What helps absolutely no one though is pretending that being fat is not only alright but something to be celebrated just because you want a cheap "feel good" moment at the cost of someones actual health. I think it is important for society as a whole to make clear that the state of being fat is something to be avoided, not accepted.
From what you followed up with really sounds like we agree.8 -
I think I don't give a *kitten* what someone else is doing with their body. Body shaming, be it with a fat person or a thin person, is disgusting. Everyone has a right to take up space and be alive, no matter the size of the space. People are still people and are still worthy of respect and being treated with decency.9
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https://www.facebook.com/SlackerAndSteveFans/posts/1015947437827039
One even said, “That is why so many people are "fat" in the USA. It isn't that we are bigger than 60 years ago, but they label it different now”
This is actually true.
Who's Fat? New Definition Adopted (CNN -June 17, 1998)
riteria for definition of overweight in transition: background and recommendations for the United States (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2000 )
Optimal Weight Threshold Lowered (Washington Post - June 4, 1988)
30 million Americans became "overweight" overnight while sleeping due to a definition change; a similar number moved from "overweight" to "obese" with the same change.6 -
https://www.facebook.com/SlackerAndSteveFans/posts/1015947437827039
One even said, “That is why so many people are "fat" in the USA. It isn't that we are bigger than 60 years ago, but they label it different now”
This is actually true.
Who's Fat? New Definition Adopted (CNN -June 17, 1998)
riteria for definition of overweight in transition: background and recommendations for the United States (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2000 )
Optimal Weight Threshold Lowered (Washington Post - June 4, 1988)
30 million Americans became "overweight" overnight while sleeping due to a definition change; a similar number moved from "overweight" to "obese" with the same change.
I still think that more of the population falls into those weight categories now than 60 years ago.
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https://www.facebook.com/SlackerAndSteveFans/posts/1015947437827039
One even said, “That is why so many people are "fat" in the USA. It isn't that we are bigger than 60 years ago, but they label it different now”
This is actually true.
Who's Fat? New Definition Adopted (CNN -June 17, 1998)
riteria for definition of overweight in transition: background and recommendations for the United States (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2000 )
Optimal Weight Threshold Lowered (Washington Post - June 4, 1988)
30 million Americans became "overweight" overnight while sleeping due to a definition change; a similar number moved from "overweight" to "obese" with the same change.
I still think that more of the population falls into those weight categories now than 60 years ago.
Well, you know, that definition change occurred in the late 1990s and effectively doubled the number in those categories. And that was less than 60 years ago, so obviously there's more?
Look, I get what you're trying to say; that if one metric was used to have obesity now vs in 1960, you'd find more people are overweight and obese. You can't really do that precisely because we had different standards and the data lacks the granularity for proper comparison. But the observation is valid, as is the observation that the definition changed. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
What we can note is that the average weight of American men has risen from 181 in 1988 to 196 lbs in 2016. The average weight of American women has risen from 152 to 169 lbs. The average heights have remained constant, at 5'9" and 5'4", respectively. That's significant and very real, while not exactly earth-shattering.
Interestingly, the average man and woman were both considered in the "healthy weight" range in 1980, but if the current definitions are applied, those 1980 people were also overweight. This is why it's accurate to note that we are getting larger, but the raw data comparisons on number of individuals classified as obese and overweight are misleading as to the magnitude of the effect.
1. CDC National Center for Health Statistics: Body Measurements, May 13 2017
2. CBS News - "The average Americans' weight change since the 1980s is startling" August 13, 20177 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »People seem so sensitive these days, like much more than I remember them being 20 years ago. One can be against a behavior, or a state of being and have that not at all be about "hatred" towards a particular person or group of people.
I am against being fat and here is why. I am for government that provides basic services for people that allow people anywhere in the country to not be distracted by things like shelter, food and health and be able to focus on their development and the development of their communities through hard work and perseverance. To that end I feel the government should help in the form of subsidies for things like education, housing, food and healthcare and that we as a society pay into that to make sure everyone has the same basic opportunities that we were afforded growing up regardless of what our parents did.
For that to be the case though there has to be a pact that we will support things in our society that are conducive to this arrangement and reject anything that harms this arrangement. Being obese predisposes one to a lot of very harmful, very real negative health effects all of which come with cost in the hospital and through the need for chronic medication. That places a burden on the system that is providing the safety net for everyone else. That is wrong and it is unnecessary. Society should, therefore, discourage becoming fat. How do we discourage it? In the same way you discourage any behavior, by speaking about it negatively...you don't pretend its not a problem and you certainly don't glorify it.
If we lived in some anarchy where there was no government then okay sure, get fat it doesn't really affect me other than to make it easier for me to take your stuff. But as long as we live in a social democratic society there are some ground rules when it comes to participation in that society and what it means to be an adult. I am not saying everyone needs to be 100% perfect, that isn't really possible nor reasonable to expect, but we have to at least be able to recognize and voice what the flaws are and be able to admit that things that negatively effect public health are flaws. People wanting to improve themselves should be celebrated, not be discouraged by trite claims of "no no you are beautiful just the way you are!" How does that help them exactly? Is the goal to simply become so complacent that nothing bothers you? Being bothered by things is what makes us strive to be better, we are supposed to be bothered by things.
Great post. Furthermore, not only is being not overweight bad for the system, and society in general, but bad for the individual.
The fat acceptance movement is all about the feels, and doesn't accept that "fat and fit" is still most likely not healthy.2 -
I read the book health at every side and actually own it. I don't think that the book was saying any weight is healthy, but that being in the overweight category ( not morbidly obese) isn't as bad as people make it out to be. I think you can strive for health at any size and should and that when you are over 100 lbs overweight or more ( morbidly obese) you are not going to be healthy. Life issues pretty much tell you that it isn't healthy to be that overweight on every level. My life experiences have shown me that. I don't think thinner people or even normally overweight people understand how bad life gets when you get to 100 lbs or more overweight. All of the bigger people over 35 bmi I have known have wanted to lose weight and hate being as overweight as they are.3
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Willing to loose, I expect the people you have known, who hate being overweight are people who have tried the cico and found that for them it did not work, that for them their weight is a more complex problem and the tests and support with understanding of them and their resulting numbers was not understood as it should have been, regrettably leaving them feeling helpless and hopeless, I've been there. There is more to health than weight. There can be more to weight loss for many without obvious health issues than proponents of cico can ever know.7
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Aaron_K123 wrote: ».
Great post. Furthermore, not only is being not overweight bad for the system, and society in general, but bad for the individual.
The fat acceptance movement is all about the feels, and doesn't accept that "fat and fit" is still most likely not healthy.
It depends what fat is to people- how a person defines fat. I don't believe healthy weight is as narrow as it is defined in the bmi from personal experience being a normal bmi weight to almost 200 lbs overweight. When your weight starts to interfere with what you can do or being able to conceive or get around you have a problem. If you are just feeling fat because socially it has been important to be in the low bmi range you don't. Personally I believe the overweight and normal weight ranges are ok to be in and that seems to bear out in studies. I was made to feel horrible growing up up to 30 lbs overweight according to the bmi in the 80's and 90's. When I got to a lower weight during middle school the treatment was better.
Also, I thought life was bad when I was 30 lbs overweight but life gets so much worse when you are much heavier. That is why I wouldn't judge anyone who was obese because they are suffering because of it even if they don't say anything. I want to be less judgmental of everyone because everyone struggles with something and has something in their lives or about them that they wish was different or have problems changing.
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https://www.facebook.com/SlackerAndSteveFans/posts/1015947437827039
One even said, “That is why so many people are "fat" in the USA. It isn't that we are bigger than 60 years ago, but they label it different now”
This is actually true.
Who's Fat? New Definition Adopted (CNN -June 17, 1998)
riteria for definition of overweight in transition: background and recommendations for the United States (The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, November 2000 )
Optimal Weight Threshold Lowered (Washington Post - June 4, 1988)
30 million Americans became "overweight" overnight while sleeping due to a definition change; a similar number moved from "overweight" to "obese" with the same change.
I still think that more of the population falls into those weight categories now than 60 years ago.
Well, you know, that definition change occurred in the late 1990s and effectively doubled the number in those categories. And that was less than 60 years ago, so obviously there's more?
Look, I get what you're trying to say; that if one metric was used to have obesity now vs in 1960, you'd find more people are overweight and obese. You can't really do that precisely because we had different standards and the data lacks the granularity for proper comparison. But the observation is valid, as is the observation that the definition changed. They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
What we can note is that the average weight of American men has risen from 181 in 1988 to 196 lbs in 2016. The average weight of American women has risen from 152 to 169 lbs. The average heights have remained constant, at 5'9" and 5'4", respectively. That's significant and very real, while not exactly earth-shattering.
Interestingly, the average man and woman were both considered in the "healthy weight" range in 1980, but if the current definitions are applied, those 1980 people were also overweight. This is why it's accurate to note that we are getting larger, but the raw data comparisons on number of individuals classified as obese and overweight are misleading as to the magnitude of the effect.
1. CDC National Center for Health Statistics: Body Measurements, May 13 2017
2. CBS News - "The average Americans' weight change since the 1980s is startling" August 13, 2017
This is true. Great point! I had been thinking this for a while and wondered why no one mentioned it!2 -
suzannesimmons3 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.
It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?
I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.
What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?
Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?
Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object
True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?
Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.
Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.
I completely disagree. I don't see how smoking is considered socially acceptable. There has been more legislation and taxation surrounding smoking over the last 20 years than pretty much anything else. There has been a dramatic push to lower the rates of smoking, and it has actually worked. I don't agree at all with shaming someone for their weight, however I think it would be great if being a healthy weight was made a priority by everyone. That doesn't mean people should offer unsolicited advice, or shame anyone, but obesity should also not be accepted as the norm. If smoking had been accepted as the norm and "healthy" just as the HAES movement claims that every size is healthy, then I guarantee the rate of smokers would be much higher right now.
Yet they are legalizing marijuana. Cigarettes= bad marijuana= good How off is that!1 -
I can't believe anybody actually doubts that overweight people shame thin people.
How many threads a DAY come up on here where people talk about fat people in their life telling them they're "getting too thin" or "why don't they take a break." How many times have you heard a man say “give her a sandwich” about a thin woman?
What do you think that is?
And it absolutely causes shame. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be so many people coming here stressed about it.
It is much more rare to be shamed because you are thin. I mean if it was bad to be thin why are most models usually at the low end of the bmi scale or below? Why do almost all people who are successful have a low body weight. I don't see many people over 100lbs overweight who made great successes of themselves, who are famous. You'd have to be really thin to be shamed for it. My sister is 5'10'' at 125 lbs and is never picked on, besides my dad sometimes, outside of the house in society. If people are commenting on you being overly thin you might want to listen to it! Just like a heavier person being called fat might need to listen to it!
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I don't think it really matters if someone is decently overweight unless the person has kids or pets who are dependent on them and their weight impedes on their ability to be their for their family (i.e. inability to walk dogs, play with cats/kids, walk with kids etc. or causes serious health issues that can be managed to ensure they are around for their family and don't plop dead or require their family to become caretakers).
If they are in that position though you can be sure they will suffer for it emotionally and practically unless they care about nothing!0 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »CipherZero wrote: »MJ2victory wrote: »ahhhh thanks friend.
tbh whatever. Hate fat ppl all you want but why tell them? Sadism?
No one - least of all me - has said to tell fat people a thing. I've said HAES and their ilk are impossible to please if they don't get their over-inflated egos stroked for being "fat and beautiful". Their victim complex is nauseating and utterly unhelpful to their own cause.
I think there are like a dozen ppl in the US who are that ridiculous. The idea of fat acceptance shouldn't be judged by that. And look at any single post of a happy, fat, confident woman and you will see comment after comment about how she's gross, unhealthy, promoting obesity, etc. I'm not talking specifically to anyone in this thread but to be, that's the opposite of fat acceptance. Just let ppl be fat and happy. Most fat people know the risks.
People voice their opinions on people and things that they find distasteful all of the time. Why should the obese get a pass?
People disproportionately voice their distaste for the obese.
I've seen so many pictures of thin women eating a mountain of food and people say it's awesome and she's "wife material" and things like that. No one says it's gross or glorifying unhealthy habits.
Furthermore, I would argue that people should do a lot less voicing their opinions of distaste although that's not what this thread is about. It's not hard to be decent. If you think something's ugly/stupid/whatever how hard is it to keep it to yourself and go live your own glorious life in the sun?
Nope on the thin pets. She'd get labelled bulimic by many people. Actually post a picture of an overly thin person and there would be many many comments on how gross she is but it's acceptable because she's thin.
I have looked at a lot of pics like that and never seen a comment like that tbh.
I posted this progress picture on reddit
And got so many skeevy emails telling me that I was so much "sexier" in my "before" picture and other ones saying it was sad that I'd lost so much of my curviness.
You have a tiny waist ( an hourglass figure) even in the before picture. I think that's what they like.0 -
WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »I can't believe anybody actually doubts that overweight people shame thin people.
How many threads a DAY come up on here where people talk about fat people in their life telling them they're "getting too thin" or "why don't they take a break." How many times have you heard a man say “give her a sandwich” about a thin woman?
What do you think that is?
And it absolutely causes shame. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be so many people coming here stressed about it.
It is much more rare to be shamed because you are thin. I mean if it was bad to be thin why are most models usually at the low end of the bmi scale or below? Why do almost all people who are successful have a low body weight. I don't see many people over 100lbs overweight who made great successes of themselves, who are famous. You'd have to be really thin to be shamed for it. My sister is 5'10'' at 125 lbs and is never picked on, besides my dad sometimes, outside of the house in society. If people are commenting on you being overly thin you might want to listen to it! Just like a heavier person being called fat might need to listen to it!
Disagree! I am shamed all the time because I train and I am slim (and not "really thin" for what it means, just slim & healthy...) ALL THE TIME! When I was way bigger I did not get any negative comment...
I have a lot of overweight friends who never get shamed or "picked on"... so again I disagree.... "thin shaming" is also a real phenomenon except that people don't think they are doing anything wrong by shaming someone slim. It's not because you don't experience it that it does not happen, it does!
Fat and thin shaming are a reality.
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WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »suzannesimmons3 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »Sunnybrooke99 wrote: »I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.
It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?
I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.
What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?
Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?
Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object
True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?
Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.
Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.
I completely disagree. I don't see how smoking is considered socially acceptable. There has been more legislation and taxation surrounding smoking over the last 20 years than pretty much anything else. There has been a dramatic push to lower the rates of smoking, and it has actually worked. I don't agree at all with shaming someone for their weight, however I think it would be great if being a healthy weight was made a priority by everyone. That doesn't mean people should offer unsolicited advice, or shame anyone, but obesity should also not be accepted as the norm. If smoking had been accepted as the norm and "healthy" just as the HAES movement claims that every size is healthy, then I guarantee the rate of smokers would be much higher right now.
Yet they are legalizing marijuana. Cigarettes= bad marijuana= good How off is that!
Something being legal isn't a judgment that it is good. It's simply allowing people to do it without legal penalty.
Think of various inappropriate, unkind, or unwise things that you could legally do, things that few people would defend as being "good." They're simply legal.4 -
WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »I can't believe anybody actually doubts that overweight people shame thin people.
How many threads a DAY come up on here where people talk about fat people in their life telling them they're "getting too thin" or "why don't they take a break." How many times have you heard a man say “give her a sandwich” about a thin woman?
What do you think that is?
And it absolutely causes shame. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be so many people coming here stressed about it.
It is much more rare to be shamed because you are thin. I mean if it was bad to be thin why are most models usually at the low end of the bmi scale or below? Why do almost all people who are successful have a low body weight. I don't see many people over 100lbs overweight who made great successes of themselves, who are famous. You'd have to be really thin to be shamed for it. My sister is 5'10'' at 125 lbs and is never picked on, besides my dad sometimes, outside of the house in society. If people are commenting on you being overly thin you might want to listen to it! Just like a heavier person being called fat might need to listen to it!
People shame thin people all the time. Not as bad as they do obese people but it is socially acceptable to do so (real women have curves type of stuff). I see it quite often and not just towards underweight people. Skinny is a derogatory term for sure. I never see the body positive people standing up against the real women comments. If people started saying obese women are not real women I'm sure there would be a huge uproar about it.7 -
singingflutelady wrote: »WillingtoLose1001984 wrote: »I can't believe anybody actually doubts that overweight people shame thin people.
How many threads a DAY come up on here where people talk about fat people in their life telling them they're "getting too thin" or "why don't they take a break." How many times have you heard a man say “give her a sandwich” about a thin woman?
What do you think that is?
And it absolutely causes shame. If it didn’t there wouldn’t be so many people coming here stressed about it.
It is much more rare to be shamed because you are thin. I mean if it was bad to be thin why are most models usually at the low end of the bmi scale or below? Why do almost all people who are successful have a low body weight. I don't see many people over 100lbs overweight who made great successes of themselves, who are famous. You'd have to be really thin to be shamed for it. My sister is 5'10'' at 125 lbs and is never picked on, besides my dad sometimes, outside of the house in society. If people are commenting on you being overly thin you might want to listen to it! Just like a heavier person being called fat might need to listen to it!
People shame thin people all the time. Not as bad as they do obese people but it is socially acceptable to do so (real women have curves type of stuff). I see it quite often and not just towards underweight people. Skinny is a derogatory term for sure. I never see the body positive people standing up against the real women comments. If people started saying obese women are not real women I'm sure there would be a huge uproar about it.
Some of the comments I've had :
You need to eat more.
Are you anorexic?
Your husband must be a paedophile if he finds you attractive
If you turn sideways you'll disappear
Plus numerous others suggesting I'm not a real woman, I'm ill, I have mental health problems, I'd be no good at sport or anything active, I need feeding up/looking after.
Thin shaming is a thing.7 -
Willing to loose, I expect the people you have known, who hate being overweight are people who have tried the cico and found that for them it did not work, that for them their weight is a more complex problem and the tests and support with understanding of them and their resulting numbers was not understood as it should have been, regrettably leaving them feeling helpless and hopeless, I've been there. There is more to health than weight. There can be more to weight loss for many without obvious health issues than proponents of cico can ever know.
I doubt any "appropriate weight" advocate would challenge the idea that there is more to health than weight. However, my feeling is that weight loss is the easiest thing one can do to reduce the risk of bad health (maybe stopping smoking is above that) that one can do on their own (i.e. without medication).0 -
For most people that's probably true. For those for whom it is not (perhaps because of repeated failure and frustration with dieting efforts) I think focusing on other things -- exercise, eating well -- can be helpful too and often result in unintended weight loss anyway.
When I first decided to lose I for some reason couldn't believe it would work, I thought I was just fat. I did not have past bad experience with dieting, it was just my own feeling of being out of control in that area, but that I decided to focus on things I knew I could control -- what I ate, exercise -- and to be as fit as possible, no matter what happened with my weight, helped me, and also helped me not obsess about the scale (which I'd been scared of).
And of course I lost weight, quite quickly at first, even. But that I wanted to focus more on the things I knew I could control did not make my efforts less valuable or positive.1 -
I will put how I feel in this way. At my worst I was 5’6, 275. I was not healthy, my bp was at 147, I had horrendous cholesterol I never thought I was attractive or sexy, nor did I tell everyone that I was attractive or ‘came out as fat’ or other nonesense. i did not feel attractive at all and for quite a few years I just gave up on my appearance and just ate.
I had my low point, I joined OA, changed my eating habits and started working out. In the past 4 months I’ve gotten down to about 230. What I do not do (and have never done) is point at random person and say ‘hey fatty, hit the gym’ or ‘put the cake down’. I go through my day treating people with the same respect I’d like to be treated with. If someone jumps up and starts in about fat acceptance and how fat is beautiful and other garbage, I will step up and argue against fat acceptance. Because it’s wrong, its dangerous, its lies to avoid real problems. Yes, there is that one percent that is healthy and fat, great for them. The other 99 percent of obese have BP upwards of 150, they have more cholesterol than red blood cells in their veins and have their doctors scowling at them. Maybe they need counciling for a mental issue, maybe then need OA like I do, but they need to loose the weight because its just not healthy. Because at the end of the day saying ‘Fat is beautiful’ is like saying ‘smoking is good for you’. It’s not healthy, peroid. Even the 1 percenters would be even healthier if they lost weight.4 -
I have never had anyone offline claim in my presence that being fat is not unhealthy. If I did, I suppose I'd say "of course it is unhealthy" or, depending on the situation, maybe ignore it. But if someone had felt compelled to inform me that being fat is unhealthy when I was fat, I would have been annoyed, since I'm not stupid and assuming I don't know being fat is unhealthy is suggesting that I am, and because it's really none of their business (I feel this way about people who tell random smokers it is unhealthy too).
That said, I think it's wrong to claim that 99% of all fat people have super high cholesterol and bad blood pressure results -- I never did, or had any other bad test result when fat. I still knew (and would have said) it was unhealthy, although I often pretended to others that I was cool with being fat, that it was something that did not bother me, since I didn't want to be looked on as an object of pity or something who was out of control or whatever (I thought I was disgusting but wanted others to not see that).
Anyway, like I said above, focusing on things other than weight (which helped with the weight) and working on not hating myself and even buying some clothes than showed I cared about myself a little helped me get to the point where I could lose weight (which I have -- went from a high of 200+ to 125).
To me, one element of "fat acceptance" is that you can stop beating yourself up about being fat and focus on other ways to improve your health which for some people (not everyone) can be very helpful, especially if they have been dieting forever, and IMO if done correctly will lead to weight loss anyway. I'd recommend Laura Fraser's book Losing It as an example of what I'm talking about and the potential counterproductiveness of the diet culture (and Fraser wasn't really fat at all and is talking about accepting herself and focusing on ways to be healthy that for her were definitely more important than losing 10-15 lbs -- that was something that resonated with me, since I think if I'd been happier with myself and my weight as a not fat at all teen and early 20-something, ironically, I probably wouldn't have been as "it doesn't matter, I'm a loser anyway" about my initial weight gain that was unhealthy).4 -
love Krissy Metz on This Is Us.. but worry about her health... just does not seem healthy at all.1
-
Aaron_K123 wrote: »People seem so sensitive these days, like much more than I remember them being 20 years ago. One can be against a behavior, or a state of being and have that not at all be about "hatred" towards a particular person or group of people.
I am against being fat and here is why. I am for government that provides basic services for people that allow people anywhere in the country to not be distracted by things like shelter, food and health and be able to focus on their development and the development of their communities through hard work and perseverance. To that end I feel the government should help in the form of subsidies for things like education, housing, food and healthcare and that we as a society pay into that to make sure everyone has the same basic opportunities that we were afforded growing up regardless of what our parents did.
For that to be the case though there has to be a pact that we will support things in our society that are conducive to this arrangement and reject anything that harms this arrangement. Being obese predisposes one to a lot of very harmful, very real negative health effects all of which come with cost in the hospital and through the need for chronic medication. That places a burden on the system that is providing the safety net for everyone else. That is wrong and it is unnecessary. Society should, therefore, discourage becoming fat. How do we discourage it? In the same way you discourage any behavior, by speaking about it negatively...you don't pretend its not a problem and you certainly don't glorify it.
If we lived in some anarchy where there was no government then okay sure, get fat it doesn't really affect me other than to make it easier for me to take your stuff. But as long as we live in a social democratic society there are some ground rules when it comes to participation in that society and what it means to be an adult. I am not saying everyone needs to be 100% perfect, that isn't really possible nor reasonable to expect, but we have to at least be able to recognize and voice what the flaws are and be able to admit that things that negatively effect public health are flaws. People wanting to improve themselves should be celebrated, not be discouraged by trite claims of "no no you are beautiful just the way you are!" How does that help them exactly? Is the goal to simply become so complacent that nothing bothers you? Being bothered by things is what makes us strive to be better, we are supposed to be bothered by things.
At first blush this seems reasonable and practical but it is a slippery slope. Do we only apply these societal requirements to weight? What about reproduction? Pregnancy is a state of being brought about by a behavior and it also results in increased medical costs, the brunt of which is borne by all in a society, including the childless. Not to mention the added use of resources by an increased population. Should the government enforcing this proposed social contract also be allowed to force either reproduction or abortion? Who determines where these lines are drawn, and should they? If everyone had equal opportunity to decide what society they wanted to grow up in then sure, this idealistic social contract sounds great, however we don't get asked where we want to be born or raised. We don't always get to choose the circumstances surrounding our working lives, or our ability to accrue the capital and mobility to just change whatever we please, including the ability uproot and leave when the social contract stops working for us. Do we then lose our voice and our freedoms through no fault of our own?
ETA: I personally think a healthy society is one where you, the individual are free to discourage or encourage whatever the *kitten* you want, and let the chips fall where they may. However, when you bring "society" and the government into it and begin legislating what I or anyone else can do with our own bodies by popular election***, I'm gonna yell fascist. The part in bold however, I absolutely agree with because it hinges on the idea of people wanting to improve themselves. Their choice should absolutely be celebrated.
***and/or pre-agreed harrasment5 -
Yes and no. While it's okay to love yourself to a degree, it's not great to be really enormous. Painful joints, risk of diabetes, heart working harder, not fitting into chairs with arms or unable to do something simple such as picking up something from the floor or putting on shoes by themselves is not how I'd picture myself.1
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