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Fat Acceptance Movement

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Replies

  • tomaattikastike
    tomaattikastike Posts: 62 Member
    @suzannesimmons3, sorry, I was replying to @russeljam08, even though it appeared directly under your post. But I don't accept you calling it a "moot" point when you haven't even read the links I provided.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    edited October 2017
    Moved to smoking/obese thread.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    Is withholding surgery to obese people because they are obese a form of fat shaming? Is this movement coming to North America or is it already here?

    telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/10/17/nhs-provokes-fury-indefinite-surgery-ban-smokers-obese/

    Nope. It's a risk evaluation. In most cases, the higher level of obesity the less chance of success from the surgery. Or they might not survive the surgery.
  • Aint2Proud2Meg
    Aint2Proud2Meg Posts: 193 Member
    edited October 2017
    The most vocal members of that crowd are generally just kind of awful.
    For most people though, denial of health risks down the road is the worst thing they have going for them. If I had to choose for another person, I'd rather they be in denial and love themselves than be in denial and participate in their own dehumanization.
  • Sunnybrooke99
    Sunnybrooke99 Posts: 369 Member
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.
  • Sunnybrooke99
    Sunnybrooke99 Posts: 369 Member
    newmeadow wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.

    It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?

    I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.
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  • Sunnybrooke99
    Sunnybrooke99 Posts: 369 Member
    Okay.. so first, strip clubs aren’t generally the common measure of society as a whole. Second, that’s actually a thing lol. Guys like all types. Fat/thin, smokers/non smoker, drinkers/non drinkers.. still prolly best not to use strip clubs as your sample for all of society.
  • Sunnybrooke99
    Sunnybrooke99 Posts: 369 Member
    I think there’s some confusion. By “socially acceptable,” I’m thinking in a moral/legal sense. I wasn’t referring to what’s sexually attractive to the opposite sex. It’s also generally considered to be more sexually attractive for strippers to be younger. There are some strippers in their 50s, but a lot less. Doesn’t mean isn’t not socially acceptable to be in your 50s.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.

    It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?

    I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.

    What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?

    Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?

    Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object

    True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?

    Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.

    Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.

    Google strip clubs, fat strippers in your area. Unless you are way out in the boonies, bet you will find some.
  • Noreenmarie1234
    Noreenmarie1234 Posts: 7,492 Member
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.

    It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?

    I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.

    What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?

    Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?

    Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object

    True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?

    Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.

    Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.

    Google strip clubs, fat strippers in your area. Unless you are way out in the boonies, bet you will find some.

    Okay, I just did. I'm major metropolitan North East U.S.A. and there are no such specialty clubs in my area or special nights set aside in main stream clubs for socially acceptable obese stripper celebration and appreciation.

    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

    Is this an untapped market do you think?


    I am also from northeast and googled "fat strippers" and found a TON of clubs and ..... photos of them. Look up big booty strippers NY
  • mwalle09
    mwalle09 Posts: 305 Member
    I've seen it from both sides. Both being a very fit and what most people consider attractive in my younger days and being overweight and obese for almost a decade now. People do treat and act differently around you based on how you look and I definitely have struggled with confidence issues at points. While I don't think I should be made fun of for letting my weight get out of control, it is a serious issue as I struggle with portions and snacking. It's good to feel like I won't get ridiculed for being obese but I do feel awful about what I've done to myself and the burden I can be on others.
  • Noreenmarie1234
    Noreenmarie1234 Posts: 7,492 Member
    edited October 2017
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.

    It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?

    I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.

    What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?

    Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?

    Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object

    True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?

    Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.

    Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.

    Google strip clubs, fat strippers in your area. Unless you are way out in the boonies, bet you will find some.

    Okay, I just did. I'm major metropolitan North East U.S.A. and there are no such specialty clubs in my area or special nights set aside in main stream clubs for socially acceptable obese stripper celebration and appreciation.

    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

    Is this an untapped market do you think?


    I am also from northeast and googled "fat strippers" and found a TON of clubs and ..... photos of them. Look up big booty strippers NY

    Okay, in my mind I'm seeing a bunch of booty implant professionals with hourglass figures and fake double dds. If you saw pics, were there any Roseanne Barr types or Mimi Bobeck lookalikes?

    Yes. There were pictures of many VERY obese women. (A lot larger than Roseanne and Mimi) Some even as big as the folks you see on my 500lb life. Not surprised though lol. I actually remember a documentary I saw once about a couple where the man liked his wife to be morbidly obese and would encourage her to keep eating. They interviewed quite a few couples like them as well in that documentary. There is a fetish for everything.
  • clicketykeys
    clicketykeys Posts: 6,575 Member
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.

    It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?

    I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.

    What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?

    Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?

    Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object

    True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?

    Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.

    Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.

    Google strip clubs, fat strippers in your area. Unless you are way out in the boonies, bet you will find some.

    Okay, I just did. I'm major metropolitan North East U.S.A. and there are no such specialty clubs in my area or special nights set aside in main stream clubs for socially acceptable obese stripper celebration and appreciation.

    I'm shocked. Shocked I tell you.

    Is this an untapped market do you think?


    I am also from northeast and googled "fat strippers" and found a TON of clubs and ..... photos of them. Look up big booty strippers NY

    Okay, in my mind I'm seeing a bunch of booty implant professionals with hourglass figures and fake double dds. If you saw pics, were there any Roseanne Barr types or Mimi Bobeck lookalikes?

    Yes. There were pictures of many VERY obese women. (A lot larger than Roseanne and Mimi) Some even as big as the folks you see on my 500lb life. Not surprised though lol. I actually remember a documentary I saw once about a couple where the man liked his wife to be morbidly obese and would encourage her to keep eating. They interviewed quite a few couples like them as well in that documentary. There is a fetish for everything.

    This. Someone who finds fat people attractive is typically perceived as having a fetish. It's not mainstream.
  • ryenday
    ryenday Posts: 1,540 Member
    I think there’s some confusion. By “socially acceptable,” I’m thinking in a moral/legal sense. I wasn’t referring to what’s sexually attractive to the opposite sex. It’s also generally considered to be more sexually attractive for strippers to be younger. There are some strippers in their 50s, but a lot less. Doesn’t mean isn’t not socially acceptable to be in your 50s.

    QFT
  • wmd1979
    wmd1979 Posts: 469 Member
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    newmeadow wrote: »
    I don’t think it’s right to shame fat people, but I also don’t think it’s better than other vices, like smoking, or drinking. It does affect other people, and costs tax payers money. It’s annoying to me that it’s socially acceptable to be fat (and even to make your children fat!), but not to smoke or drink.

    It's not socially acceptable to smoke and drink? What would the reaction be to a, say, 250 pound stripper performing on stage versus a 120 pound stripper smoking and drinking with the fellas at the strip club on her night off or on her break? Or outside in the parking lot if it was a smoke free club?

    I’m sorry. I don’t think I get your point.

    What would the societal reaction be to a morbidly obese stripper employee dancing onstage and a 120 pound stripper employee socializing with the clientele while enjoying cigarettes and alcohol?

    Would they be received the same way? Would one employee be sneered at, heckled, not offered any cash and booed off the stage where the other employee would be ogled, complimented, never once have to reach into her purse to pay for her own drinks while her cigarettes were lit for her with chivalry?

    Depends on what floats your boat.....not all men would object

    True. If there's a club that specializes in featuring obese strippers or at least has a Chub Night with free buffet okay. I've never heard of such a thing but if you have - could you please let me know so I can apply for a part time gig on my nights off?

    Point is, drinking is socially acceptable. Smoking is too, as long as it's done in open air setting so as not to give the non smokers lung disease. Or in private settings where the homeowner sets the rules and can do as he or she pleases.

    Obese people disrobing for cash and prizes in order to facilitate sexual arousal and bring clientele into your run-of-the-mill strip club equals socially acceptable? Not so much.

    I completely disagree. I don't see how smoking is considered socially acceptable. There has been more legislation and taxation surrounding smoking over the last 20 years than pretty much anything else. There has been a dramatic push to lower the rates of smoking, and it has actually worked. I don't agree at all with shaming someone for their weight, however I think it would be great if being a healthy weight was made a priority by everyone. That doesn't mean people should offer unsolicited advice, or shame anyone, but obesity should also not be accepted as the norm. If smoking had been accepted as the norm and "healthy" just as the HAES movement claims that every size is healthy, then I guarantee the rate of smokers would be much higher right now.
  • bmeadows380
    bmeadows380 Posts: 2,981 Member
    I have never been shamed into doing anything positive for myself. It only ever led to hiding (eating sneakily), and diminished social and physical activity. Shaming erodes people's self-esteem and is counter productive. People should be encouraged to love themselves at any weight. Surprisingly, accepting myself for what I am (right now, fat) leads me to treat myself better, which right now means trying to get healthier. Some people will never lose weight, but it's better (and probably healthier) to be a self-accepting obese person than one who is socially withdrawn and self-punishing.

    Everyone is on his or her own path.

    well said! This is definitely me, whether I have actually been "fat shamed" or have just have my self confidence eroded by perceived fat shaming from media and social media sources. .
  • stanmann571
    stanmann571 Posts: 5,727 Member
    I think a line needs to be drawn between "fat acceptance"*1 and "fat promotion." We should all be valued as human beings regardless of our weight. But telling people it's fine to remain overweight if it's negatively impacting their health or,*2 worse yet, encouraging them to gain if they're not underweight is irresponsible. I'm thankful to all those who have spoken out on behalf of dignity or rights for the obese, but I caution everyone to not take it so far that we end up doing more harm than good.

    You seem confused 1 and 2 are the same thing.
  • mysteps2beauty
    mysteps2beauty Posts: 493 Member
    bump
  • Goal179
    Goal179 Posts: 314 Member
    Kelly Clarkson just did an interview where she says she was miserable when she was thin and she wanted to die. But now that she is much bigger, she says she is very happy and free to be herself. I honestly don't know if I believe her. It is wonderful to have a healthy body image at any weight, but it's not healthy to be on a path for disease, illness and try to disguise it as "healthy body image" because you don't want to be forced to address it. I would imagine that because she is young and doesn't really have any health issues at the moment, she is ok with her weight. But if her metabolism is as damaged as she says it is, then it is just a matter of time before her weight issues start to get worse. I think the reason she may have been so unhappy when she was thin was because she didn't enjoy being forced to do the hard work that was required to remain that way. I truly do hope that she is happier now at her current weight.

    Being fat or obese is not all about people judging your appearance. It's about the underlying health issues that may be making you fat. Things such as hormone imbalances, insulin resistance, damaged metabolism, diabetes, fatty liver...all of the things that could secretly be contributing to your inability to maintain a lighter weight should not be ignored simply because you want to "feel good about yourself". It is great if you are fat/obese and have NO MEDICAL conditions, but it's important to understand what is causing the fat in the first place. Sometimes the underlying issue is not just as simple as calories in/calories out-other things may need to be addressed. Is being fat/obese natural or have environmental issues created this epidemic? Seems like I am off topic.
  • StephanieDL1
    StephanieDL1 Posts: 19 Member
    I think people should love them selves at any size and try to strive towards Health at any size. That being said, the message has been distorted to meaning “healthy” at any size which to me is quite absurd and isn’t accurate for the majority of the morbidly obese individuals who claim they are healthy and fine at the weight they’re at. I think no matter your size, strive for exercise, love yourself, look after your mental health, and eat right.
  • FatPorkyChop
    FatPorkyChop Posts: 83 Member
    CSARdiver wrote: »
    Goal179 wrote: »
    Kelly Clarkson just did an interview where she says she was miserable when she was thin and she wanted to die. But now that she is much bigger, she says she is very happy and free to be herself. I honestly don't know if I believe her. It is wonderful to have a healthy body image at any weight, but it's not healthy to be on a path for disease, illness and try to disguise it as "healthy body image" because you don't want to be forced to address it. I would imagine that because she is young and doesn't really have any health issues at the moment, she is ok with her weight. But if her metabolism is as damaged as she says it is, then it is just a matter of time before her weight issues start to get worse. I think the reason she may have been so unhappy when she was thin was because she didn't enjoy being forced to do the hard work that was required to remain that way. I truly do hope that she is happier now at her current weight.

    Being fat or obese is not all about people judging your appearance. It's about the underlying health issues that may be making you fat. Things such as hormone imbalances, insulin resistance, damaged metabolism, diabetes, fatty liver...all of the things that could secretly be contributing to your inability to maintain a lighter weight should not be ignored simply because you want to "feel good about yourself". It is great if you are fat/obese and have NO MEDICAL conditions, but it's important to understand what is causing the fat in the first place. Sometimes the underlying issue is not just as simple as calories in/calories out-other things may need to be addressed. Is being fat/obese natural or have environmental issues created this epidemic? Seems like I am off topic.

    Kelly Clarkson earned her living in a culture that prioritizes image. This would cause a massive amount of stress and general dysfunction to anyone. This is quite different in comparison to the average person making their living on something other than image.

    All of these "underlying conditions" are also symptoms and directly related to being overweight. Your hormones will never maintain balance if you are overweight. Hormones are free cycling and simply being overweight is enough to cause an imbalance, which forces glands to overproduce and become stressed.

    Damaged metabolism may be popular among the woo crowd, but the actual clinical diagnosis is rare (~1 in 20k).

    The underlying issue is always as simple as CICO.

    Spare the judgement - rely on facts and data.[/quhote]


    If she wants to jugde, let her. She has the right to! It's a forum where people discuss facts data but also share their opinions and judgments.
  • celiah909
    celiah909 Posts: 141 Member
    https://www.facebook.com/SlackerAndSteveFans/posts/10159474378270394

    I just landed on that FB post. It says that a survey done showed 1 in 5 people who were obese thought they were only overweight and 1 in 10 thought they were normal weight.

    What I really found striking though was the comments from people. Quite a few had the stance that some people are just thicker, society needs to leave people alike & not worry about their size, the BMI calculator has changed to make it appear more people are obese, etc.

    One even said, “That is why so many people are "fat" in the USA. It isn't that we are bigger than 60 years ago, but they label it different now”

    It reminded me of this post so I thought I’d share. There is a movement, for lack of a better word, that being obese is just a fact of life for so many and it should be accepted, companies should use heavier and heavier models and make larger clothes marked as a smaller size.
  • jdlobb
    jdlobb Posts: 1,232 Member
    I think part of it is that we've just become so accustomed to seeing obesity around us, and seeing obese people that don't appear to be struggling with health issues, that it normalizes it with us. Modern medicine and technology have made all but the most severe obesity manageable conditions, and not even inconvenient in day-to-day life.