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Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
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TenderBlender667 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »What school are you going to, and where is it located?
I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.
I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.
The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.
I know this is continually passed around as fact, but this is patently false. This is conspiratorial woo. You have to be better than this and connect the dots yourself. Who is receiving "big money" to hide this?
I work in pharmacovigilance and the food and drug industries are legally bound to report all adverse events to the respective regulatory authority. As example a family member reports that they no longer need a prescription for a product due to patient death this now gets tracked as a death in the vigilance profile of that product, regardless of whether or not there was a causal relationship.
Most drugs only treat the symptoms and have a low affinity targeted to a specific patient demographic. To truly correct the underlying problem this takes time and dedication from both the patient and treating professional. This is highly limited as the demand vastly outweighs the supply. There will never be sufficient medical care to compensate for absence of personal responsibility.30 -
When I go to the doctor, I'm rushed through the system. The whole ordeal takes an hour or more and I get about 20 minutes of personal attention.
Judging from people I know who've been to alternative practitioners, these people spend an hour listening attentively to their patient and saying "I can help."
That's a very powerful placebo, and placebos do work. To an extent anyway. It's very self reinforcing.22 -
If anybody is curious about the courses taught at CSNN
http://csnn.ca/program/courses/
NN105 – Body-Mind-Spirit, The Connection | 27 hours
In the first part of this course, the student will learn every aspect of orthomolecular practice in the pursuit of mental health. In the second part, the student will discover how to consider and address the mental, emotional and spiritual contributors to disease and healing. Through an understanding of psychology, the human energy field, relationships and intuition, the student will explore a truly holistic way of guiding others towards wholeness. In addition, the journey through this course encourages students to develop their own innate gifts as healing professionals by coming into alignment with their life’s purpose.
They even make basic courses like Biology seem somewhat suspect.5 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »What school are you going to, and where is it located?
I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.
I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.
The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.
I know this is continually passed around as fact, but this is patently false. This is conspiratorial woo. You have to be better than this and connect the dots yourself. Who is receiving "big money" to hide this?
I work in pharmacovigilance and the food and drug industries are legally bound to report all adverse events to the respective regulatory authority. As example a family member reports that they no longer need a prescription for a product due to patient death this now gets tracked as a death in the vigilance profile of that product, regardless of whether or not there was a causal relationship.
Most drugs only treat the symptoms and have a low affinity targeted to a specific patient demographic. To truly correct the underlying problem this takes time and dedication from both the patient and treating professional. This is highly limited as the demand vastly outweighs the supply. There will never be sufficient medical care to compensate for absence of personal responsibility.
If I understand this correctly, that would mean that side effects (or at least fatalities, in this case) are - essentially - overreported?
9 -
A better term for "alternative medicine" should be "unproven medicine".
That does not necessarily mean alternative medicine is full of hooey - just that it may not be proven.
Some things like (acupuncture, meditation, yoga, chiropractor) have been proven to have benefits for certain conditions, while other practices (crystals, past-life regression, detox sessions) are not. Many things are due to placebo effect, too.
Holistic medicine can actually mean a lot of things. In theory it is supposed to look at health in a way more inclusive than the traditional Western model. It can be an excellent approach, as it is amazing how a closer scrutiny on nutrition, or sleep, or any number of factors can affect health. But it is also a breeding ground of woo. Unfortunately, a lot of "alternative medicine" fields are like that.
I'm also a bit disturbed that instructors seem a bit secretive about sources.11 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »What school are you going to, and where is it located?
I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.
I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.
The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.
Citation needed.
Also, I don't know that many medical professionals would poo poo a treatment that had PROVABLE positive results. The problem with most holistic remedies is that many are based on feelings and subjective data rather than objective observations.
In fact it's quite the other way around from the info I got from people on here. It gets reported even if there's no indication that it was caused by the drug at all.5 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »What school are you going to, and where is it located?
I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.
I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.
The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.
I know this is continually passed around as fact, but this is patently false. This is conspiratorial woo. You have to be better than this and connect the dots yourself. Who is receiving "big money" to hide this?
I work in pharmacovigilance and the food and drug industries are legally bound to report all adverse events to the respective regulatory authority. As example a family member reports that they no longer need a prescription for a product due to patient death this now gets tracked as a death in the vigilance profile of that product, regardless of whether or not there was a causal relationship.
Most drugs only treat the symptoms and have a low affinity targeted to a specific patient demographic. To truly correct the underlying problem this takes time and dedication from both the patient and treating professional. This is highly limited as the demand vastly outweighs the supply. There will never be sufficient medical care to compensate for absence of personal responsibility.
Where's the graphic that compares how little money companies like Monsanto, who totally "pay a lot of money to keep the TRUTH about GMOs hidden from you!!!!", have compared to, say, Exxon who couldn't keep the fact that climate change is a thing from people if they wanted to?9 -
Came here to link Tim Minchin's Storm but i see its already been done..never mind ill go back to my corner.2
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snowflake954 wrote: »I know a German doctor using the holistic approach for years. She's very intelligent and several years ago started in with an American MLM company. She makes so much money it's sinful. I sat in on one of her presentations--leaky gut was mentioned alot. I didn't like the push to get involved selling and tapping into my friends and acquaintances, so I backed out fast.
Funny how I have never heard of a GI Dr who believes in leaky gut syndrome.8 -
Canadian School of Natural Nutrition offers a title that they made up themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/nutrition/comments/1p6jaa/what_is_a_registered_holistic_nutritionist_do/
Dr. Elson Haas is a huge proponent of detox dieting. http://chetday.com/haasdetox.htm
THE DETOX DIET MENU PLAN
Morning: (upon arising): Two glasses of water (filtered, spring, or reverse osmosis), one glass with half a lemon squeezed into it.
Breakfast: One piece of fresh fruit (at room temp), such as apple, pear, banana, grapes, or citrus. Chew well, mixing each bite with saliva.
15-30 minutes later: One bowl of cooked whole grains -- specifically millet, brown rice, amaranth, quinoa, raw buckwheat, or buckwheat. Flavoring can be two tablespoons of fruit juice for a sweeter breakfast taste, or use the "better butter" mixture mentioned below with a little salt or tamari for a deeper flavor.
Lunch: (Noon-1 P.M.) One-two medium bowls of steamed vegetables; use a variety, including roots, stems, and greens -- e.g. potatoes or yams, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, beets, asparagus, kale, chard, and cabbage. CHEW WELL !
Dinner: (5-6 P.M.) Same as Lunch
Seasoning: Butter/canola oil mixture. Make this "better butter" by mixing a half cup of cold-pressed canola oil (or olive or flaxseed oils) into a soft (room temperature) half-pound of butter; then place in dish and refrigerate. Use about one teaspoon per meal or a maximum of 3 teaspoons daily.
11 A.M. & 3 P.M. One-two cups veggie water, saved from steamed vegetables. Add a little sea salt or kelp and drink slowly, mixing each mouthful with saliva.
Evening: Herbal teas only -- e.g. peppermint, camomile, pau d'arco, or blends.
NOTE: You may feel a little weak or have a few symptoms the first couple of days; this will pass. Clarity and feeling good should appear by day 3 or 4, if not before. If during this diet, you start to feel weak or hungry, assess your water intake and elimination; if needed, you can eat a small portion of protein food (3-4 ounces) in the mid-afternoon. This could be fish; free-range, organic chicken; or some beans, such as lentils, garbanzos, mung, or black beans.
Uhm yeah I would feel weak on a vegetable and oil diet, holy crap (and runny crap, literally). You're 2 months in. You might not be able to get your money back for this semester, but you can probably get any other money back. Do a little research and pick a board certified school. Dietitian is the title that you should look for.11 -
stevencloser wrote: »TenderBlender667 wrote: »YvetteK2015 wrote: »What school are you going to, and where is it located?
I'm studying at the Canadian School of Natural Nutrition. I am aware that this is not the best way to educate myself on Nutrition and I'm very aware of the difference between a dietitian and nutritionist. If I had the option, I definitely would've chosen to go the dietitian way, but I don't have that option right now. What led me to this area of study is the fact that I've always been skeptical of some of the treatment methods followed by western medical doctors.
I grew up with a myriad of health issues that worsened after following a standard american diet and being extremely stressed in my day-to-day life. After going to multiple doctors who prescribed me the same medication each time I went in, I developed horrible side effects and hip/joint pain at the age of 15. I decided to go off all meds, and the hip pain magically disappeared. A few years later, while doing some research, I find that the medication I was taking was linked to reduced absorption of calcium and increased risk of bone fractures. Fast forward 1 year, I did some blood tests and I find out I'm severely deficient in vitamin b12. The doctor who is supposed to care about a patient's health didn't even bother to give me b12 shots so I had to go find someone else to do it for me or take heavy doses of oral b12 myself which gave me unpleasant effects. I did some research once again because it didn't make sense that a teenager who's never been vegan her whole life would be deficient in a nutrient the body doesn't need much of to begin with. Coincidentally I found a link between the medication I was taking and Anemia. This is all anecdotal evidence so obviously there might have been other factors coming into play when I went off the medication such as my poor diet or lack of physical activity.
The fatalities and side effects of various drugs are under-reported. Pharmaceutical companies as well as the food industry pays big money to keep information hidden from the public. The long term effects of certain food, drug, and environmental agents have not been reported YET because we're still in the relatively early stages of exposure. We'll need at least another 20 years to conclude that certain chemicals are indeed carcinogenic or produce autoimmune responses in the body. I'm not saying western medicine is the source of all evils. They've saved millions of people and increased the general life span of the population. I just wish they were more open minded about nutrition's role in health and cared about their patients more rather than giving an antibiotic prescription for every ache and pain or just sending you off with these wonderful words: "If you feel like dying, just go to the hospital." This is literally what one doctor told me instead of giving me advice on how to avoid that situation. I've decided I'm probably better off taking control of my own health.
Citation needed.
Also, I don't know that many medical professionals would poo poo a treatment that had PROVABLE positive results. The problem with most holistic remedies is that many are based on feelings and subjective data rather than objective observations.
In fact it's quite the other way around from the info I got from people on here. It gets reported even if there's no indication that it was caused by the drug at all.
If you have seen drug commercials they have to say every possible side effect. One of the drugs has lymphoma listed as a side effect and with a little research I discovered that it has been less than 10 people in millions who take it and you can't prove if it's correlation or causation4 -
jseams1234 wrote: »If anybody is curious about the courses taught at CSNN
http://csnn.ca/program/courses/
NN105 – Body-Mind-Spirit, The Connection | 27 hours
In the first part of this course, the student will learn every aspect of orthomolecular practice in the pursuit of mental health. In the second part, the student will discover how to consider and address the mental, emotional and spiritual contributors to disease and healing. Through an understanding of psychology, the human energy field, relationships and intuition, the student will explore a truly holistic way of guiding others towards wholeness. In addition, the journey through this course encourages students to develop their own innate gifts as healing professionals by coming into alignment with their life’s purpose.
They even make basic courses like Biology seem somewhat suspect.
You lost me at "energy field"... It's even more "interesting" than I thought. I didn't know they also dabble in Deepak Chopra level stuff. I thought they were just wannabe "doctors" who know "what they don't want you to know".2 -
WorkerDrone83 wrote: »I think I remember hearing something like "If alternative medicine worked, it would just be called medicine." I would assume the same applies to holistic nutrition.
It sounds super interesting, though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U
Was it this?
OMG I love this! Had not seen it ever before but it is so spot on
2 -
AdamAthletic wrote: »The issue with holistic treatments IMO is, the creators of many of these said treatments, largely seem to be on a mission to create their very own version of science.
You can thank postmodernism for this - for many people today there is no objective reality, there's your truth and my truth and neither is "better" than the other. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_constructionism10 -
stevencloser wrote: »In fact it's quite the other way around from the info I got from people on here. It gets reported even if there's no indication that it was caused by the drug at all.
There's a product called Balance of Nature that they're pimping on local radio. They have all these people giving testimonials in the ads about how they started Balance of Nature and their serious medical conditions went away. What the people who buy into this don't understand is:
1. Given any disorder, some people will just get better - it's called remission
2. The ads don't include the thousands who used the product and didn't get better7 -
Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .35 -
finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".22 -
singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .33 -
finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist isn't doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need and is potentially dangerous. I can't support that and I will speak out saving people pain suffering and money.17 -
TenderBlender667 wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Can you give some examples of what you're being 'taught'?
I'm terribly surprised you aren't also being taught about laying on of hands, voodoo, prayers of intercession, healing through prayer, anointing with oil, recitation of the quaran, dianetics, electromagnetic therapy, aromatherapy, homeopathy, shamanism, chelation therapy, cupping, reiki, hypnosis, qigong, numerology, oil pulling, and the proper folding of tin foil hats.
Do you believe in UFOs, astral projections, mental telepathy, ESP, clairvoyance, spirit photography, telekinetic movement, full trance mediums, the Loch Ness monster and the theory of Atlantis?1
This discussion has been closed.
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