Ketosis
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111grace keto is not for the masses but it does work if one works it hard. The hard part is all the sugar in stuff today. Giving up the grapes and apples helped me to say in nutritional ketosis. Not sure why your friend loss muscle tone but I do move about. Best of luck. Give yourself 90 days before you quite is possible. If you have health concerns get some professional guidance.0
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I was in denial, buying L, XL, too XXL, " I am not too fat" gross self deception! Portion sizes just got bigger, 2 slices pizza became one large pizza! stress craves carbs! Plain stupidity, and lack of self love/respect! and excuses!
BMI 33.6 I am in the obese range class1, just calculated it! and WRONG focus! My mind is so tired of climbing this mountain and falling back down! trying every year! I am so tired of learning what to eat and what to eat, I love fruits and vegetables but this diet does not work! hate animal source of proteins!
Today going to give the keto diet a chance! just sick and tired of dieting. Very worried about the high fat and arteries? A friend lost weight on this diet, he did no exercise, but lost muscle tone! I hate exercise and gym so going to try this even though I don't like the sound of high fat. The will power and mind determination seems to be the hardest. and craving snacks! Being hungry messes with my mind I cannot focus on painting, work suffers! But then results count right! thin is thin! so keto it is, last choice!. No fruits! grapes, cherries, yellow peach, watermelon, etc damn! If there is a better way than keto please let me know.
GOD please help me get healthy and reach my healthy weight. 28-10-2014, 10:20pm.
Don't just jump on this, it won't work if you don't research exactly how it works, tailor it to your needs, and really put all your efforts into it. It's not a magic bullet for weight loss. If you were on a very high carb, high sugar diet it'll be like going on detox and the keto flu may kick your butt at first. People who aren't fully committed to this, won't do well on keto.0 -
2x on what crisb2 states. Becoming keto adapted for the first time in one's life can be a hard trip but worth it in the case of some. In my case more energy with no blood sugar lows during the day is awesome after being a slave to sugar for like 60+ years. I did about 200 hours of research personally.0
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RoseyDgirl wrote: »I have to say that I am becoming quite fascinated by ketosis and, I may actually further reduce my already low carb (50-100 g) daily allotment to under 50g after the holiday season passes. However, that said, if ketosis can occur between 40-50 g, why do folks reduce to 20g?
I gather that people in Ketosis take lots of vitamins to make up for the lost nutrition from cutting out the 5-7 servings of veggies?
Rosey being new to this I dropped my goal to 20 grams of carbs just because I expect I am getting more 'accidental' carbs than I thought. When eating out I think even meat gets sugar to help overcome perhaps lower quality products. I do take vitamins now and should be getting a new round of blood work next week and will request a ketone report as well.
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Sounds great. However, to each his own. Different people try low carb for different reasons. I tried it because all of the other ways were not working. You are 23, so your metabolism is probably pretty high. Mine used to be when I was your age. I could drop weight just like that. However, now......not so much. It takes moving heaven and earth to lose a pound. I switched over to a very low carb diet for a couple of months to jumpstart my diet. When one is working out and eating extremely clean and nothing is coming off, it can be quite discouraging. This happens once a woman is menopausal. The low carb diet was the only thing that worked. I have eased complex carbs back into my diet, my weight loss has slowed down to a crawl again, but I am more patient because at least I can see some results. Again, people try low carb for their own reasons. There is mine, and I am quite satisfied with it.0
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Out of curiosity, a lot of people say their issues with bingeing disappear on a keto diet, does it take away the emotional attachment to food as well? I'm thinking very overweight people who would describe food as their best friend and major comfort. Do these issues suddenly go away?
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I think I still have an emotional attachment to carbs by memory. I can remember how good a banana shake can taste or lemon icebox pie. Just typing the words makes me want to drool. What I do not have is a chemical addiction to sugar now that forces me to stop at Dairy Queen the best I can tell. I do not sag in the afternoon and need a Dr. Pepper and candy bar any longer..
Out of curiosity, a lot of people say their issues with bingeing disappear on a keto diet, does it take away the emotional attachment to food as well? I'm thinking very overweight people who would describe food as their best friend and major comfort. Do these issues suddenly go away?
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I do not think Fat is addicting. The one video on some thread has a Doctor talking about sugar and cocaine having similar behavior in the human brain. I had lunch about 1 pm and some Macadamia nuts about 5pm and about 8 pm I had some cottage cheese and three table spoons of coconut oil in a cup with hot water and a tablespoon of dark cocoa because I was a bit hungry but mainly it was getting some hint of arthritis pain in my feet.
Some think since nutritional ketosis is used in cure some forms of epilepsy that it can have a calming effect on the brain in all people. I know I am more level headed and less given to fits when things go wrong.
Froody2 actually being new at this I am not sure if the effects of nutritional ketosis can be explained to someone who has not had the experience. The calming effect is real in my experience.
This may be of interest to you and the link to the full article will be below.
All of the following conditions have been shown in animal models or in human studies to improve on a ketogenic diet:
Autism
Traumatic Brain Injury
Alzheimer’s Disease
Parkinson’s Disease
Brain Cancer
Diabetes
Prostate Cancer
Obesity
Chronic Pain/Inflammation
Multiple Sclerosis
Insomnia/Circadian Rhythm disorders
Source: http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/bipolar-disorder-and-low-carb-diets/
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Out of curiosity, a lot of people say their issues with bingeing disappear on a keto diet...
A lot of other people find they binge more on keto.
There is no one answer. Our bodies evolved to have a variety of preferences, as that enhances our collective ability to survive.
Figure out what works for *your* body.
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Thanks for your reply! Food for thought :-)0
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Are people looking at ketogenic diets as a therapy to treat an illness, or a long-term lifestyle?
I start suspecting things when a particular treatment is considered a panacea for extremely different diseases/disorders. From reading these studies, not one mentions how other diet alterations might produce the same effects, though dietary changes for many of these disorders have been tried and also shown results. For instance, Alzheimer's and the "Mediterranean Diet", or obesity/diabetes and any diet that limits calories (for energy burned) and refined carbohydrates.
Also the rigor of all these studies are abysmal. Very few participants, use of questionaries, not comparing to another type of diet (I did find ONE that did compare to a moderate carb intake diet, but both groups lost weight, keto an average of 6 kg and non-keto an average of 4 kg, and there were only 17 participants). Then I found a study that basically said there was no change in insulin sensitivity for keto-diets after a year, though keto-diet had more weight loss (again, both groups had weight loss and study design is flawed): http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=717452
For that article GaleHawkins posted that lists all the supposed improvements for a wide variety of ailments, there is one reference for it (though not for all she listed) that is a review paper and it says this in the final conclusion: "Despite the relative lack of clinical data, there is an emerging literature supporting the broad use of the KD (and its variants) against a variety of neurological conditions."
Nice. Let's all jump on the bandwagon now before it's too late!0 -
Glucose excess in many seems to result in obesity and diabetes.
Funny how the OP isn't worried about that. LOL0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »in….because this seems like fun…
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
Its not a full article but what I understood that keto dieters lost more weight because they were having a larger deficit VLCD. Non keto dieters were on LCD not VLCD! So where is the comparison?
Edit: Also non keto dieters lost 4.8 KG (+/- something) 10 lbs, in two months. Which is a good amount in itself!
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Are people looking at ketogenic diets as a therapy to treat an illness, or a long-term lifestyle?
I start suspecting things when a particular treatment is considered a panacea for extremely different diseases/disorders. From reading these studies, not one mentions how other diet alterations might produce the same effects, though dietary changes for many of these disorders have been tried and also shown results. For instance, Alzheimer's and the "Mediterranean Diet", or obesity/diabetes and any diet that limits calories (for energy burned) and refined carbohydrates.
Also the rigor of all these studies are abysmal. Very few participants, use of questionaries, not comparing to another type of diet (I did find ONE that did compare to a moderate carb intake diet, but both groups lost weight, keto an average of 6 kg and non-keto an average of 4 kg, and there were only 17 participants). Then I found a study that basically said there was no change in insulin sensitivity for keto-diets after a year, though keto-diet had more weight loss (again, both groups had weight loss and study design is flawed): http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=717452
For that article GaleHawkins posted that lists all the supposed improvements for a wide variety of ailments, there is one reference for it (though not for all she listed) that is a review paper and it says this in the final conclusion: "Despite the relative lack of clinical data, there is an emerging literature supporting the broad use of the KD (and its variants) against a variety of neurological conditions."
Nice. Let's all jump on the bandwagon now before it's too late!
The only thing I've seen confirmed medically for NK is epilepsy and ADHD due to the connection between GABA and ketone bodies.0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
Why do people on a Keto diet think they are the only ones to eat bacon and cheese everyday?0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
Why do people on a Keto diet think they are the only ones to eat bacon and cheese everyday?
I am on keto and I don't think that or anything close to that. Is it fair to lump all keto eaters in one pot?0 -
Dave198lbs wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
Why do people on a Keto diet think they are the only ones to eat bacon and cheese everyday?
I am on keto and I don't think that or anything close to that. Is it fair to lump all keto eaters in one pot?
Where did I say all Keto dieters?0 -
bcomingfitmom wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »in….because this seems like fun…
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
Its not a full article but what I understood that keto dieters lost more weight because they were having a larger deficit VLCD. Non keto dieters were on LCD not VLCD! So where is the comparison?
Edit: Also non keto dieters lost 4.8 KG (+/- something) 10 lbs, in two months. Which is a good amount in itself!
Maybe not. http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/
In a lot of the studies listed here, the low fat diets were calorie restricted and the keto dieters still lost more as well as improved cholesterol, a1c levels, insulin sensitivity, waist to hip ratio..etc.
I personally wouldn't be able to do very low calorie without it also being keto.
I'm sure different bodies and different medical conditions can benefit from different diets.0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »bcomingfitmom wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »in….because this seems like fun…
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
Its not a full article but what I understood that keto dieters lost more weight because they were having a larger deficit VLCD. Non keto dieters were on LCD not VLCD! So where is the comparison?
Edit: Also non keto dieters lost 4.8 KG (+/- something) 10 lbs, in two months. Which is a good amount in itself!
Maybe not. http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/
In a lot of the studies listed here, the low fat diets were calorie restricted and the keto dieters still lost more as well as improved cholesterol, a1c levels, insulin sensitivity, waist to hip ratio..etc.
I personally wouldn't be able to do very low calorie without it also being keto.
I'm sure different bodies and different medical conditions can benefit from different diets.
Exactly! So in case of obese people without any underlying medical conditions any diet with a reasonable calorie deficit work! All I am trying to say is keto is not superior to CICO, may be on par. Heck, I am obese class 1 and vegetarian and I am losing nearly 2 lbs a week by eating at TDEE-20%!!0 -
bcomingfitmom wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »bcomingfitmom wrote: »blktngldhrt wrote: »in….because this seems like fun…
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
Its not a full article but what I understood that keto dieters lost more weight because they were having a larger deficit VLCD. Non keto dieters were on LCD not VLCD! So where is the comparison?
Edit: Also non keto dieters lost 4.8 KG (+/- something) 10 lbs, in two months. Which is a good amount in itself!
Maybe not. http://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/
In a lot of the studies listed here, the low fat diets were calorie restricted and the keto dieters still lost more as well as improved cholesterol, a1c levels, insulin sensitivity, waist to hip ratio..etc.
I personally wouldn't be able to do very low calorie without it also being keto.
I'm sure different bodies and different medical conditions can benefit from different diets.
Exactly! So in case of obese people without any underlying medical conditions any diet with a reasonable calorie deficit work! All I am trying to say is keto is not superior to CICO, may be on par. Heck, I am obese class 1 and vegetarian and I am losing nearly 2 lbs a week by eating at TDEE-20%!!
I never said other diets wouldn't work.0 -
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...[/quote]
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved. [/quote]
^^ There is where you said it0 -
I hope that this isn't considered a derail of the thread, but I'm coming at this from a completely different perspective. I have no idea at all what a keto diet is. This topic caught my eye because I really enjoy human acid base physiology--Yeah, I know how nerdy that sounded. Anyway, my experience with ketosis comes solely from that perspective not from the diet or weight loss world.
So, why do the diet plan authors recommend ketosis above and beyond the simple notion of taking in fewer calories than you expend? How do followers of these diet plans determine if they are in the state of ketosis? Is it just a basic assumption that if you follow the prescribed diet you will be in a ketotic state or are people actually monitoring their urine or doing blood tests?
To answer these questions, I recommend you read "Why We Get Fat" by Gary Taubes. He does a good job explaining the endocrinology (not sure that's the right word - a little help?)
But I'll try to answer your questions. I'm doing this from memory, so if you need to correct me please be kind.
Why do the diet plan authors recommend ketosis...
Diet authors recommend ketosis over simple calorie restriction for certain people. Not for everybody. I haven't seen a clear definition of who should be trying it, and who should avoid it; I don't think science has made it that far. So you only know if it will work by trying it.
The greatest benefit is appetite control. I find if I eat bread, fruit, or pasta I feel hungry again shortly after. But if I eat an equivalent amount of protein or fat, that doesn't happen.
This reason for this - as I recall - is because your body processes glucose first. Too much glucose in the blood stream is toxic, so insulin kinda shuts down the processing of fat until the glucose is dealt with. If you normally eat a lot of carbs, then your body gets used to releasing a lot of insulin to process them. Then if you don't need as much insulin as has been released it kinda lingers in your system and prevents you from processing fat while it's there.
The goal of all low-carbers it to become "fat adapted". When you eat carbs all the time, the fat you eat just gets stored and not used for energy. When you become "fat adapted" it means your body has re-learned how to burn fat as a primary fuel instead of simply screaming for more carbs. This is why low-carbers often have trouble eating enough. We don't get hunger signals because the body is getting the required energy from stored fat.
I don't think ketosis actually causes weight loss in any way. I think it's just a way to keep your brain functioning while you severely restrict your carb intake in an effort to become fat adapted. But that's just my interpretation, I'm not sure it's right.
How do followers of these diet plans determine if they are in the state of ketosis? Is it just a basic assumption...
There are symptoms. There are sticks that measure ketones in your urine. A lot of people monitor it that way. I've never used those though. I get keto-breath, that's how I know. Some others: dehydration, sudden weight loss caused by water loss when the glycogen gets flushed out, and a temporary-but-severe brain fog are all common.
you don't need a book to know why people get fat.
people get fat because they eat more then they consume….that must be a short book...0 -
bcomingfitmom wrote: »for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved. [/quote]
^^ There is where you said it[/quote]
link to full study would be appreciated..that is just an abstract…says nothing about sample size, methods etc…
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A calorie deficit will work whether keto, high carb, vegetarian etc. What people doing keto try to explain is that it is easier to lose on keto because you feel full and not constantly hungry. Fat and in particular protein are satiating so it is hard to overeat, whereas it is easy to eat carb rich foods all day. I have been doing keto for 10 months, it is now a lifestyle, it was a diet for the first few months, I felt great so do not feel I need to change.0
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http://carbsanity.blogspot.com/2014/08/all-roads-lead-through-krebs-true-keto.html
"Being in ketosis is NOT an indicator of net BODY fat burning."0 -
A calorie deficit will work whether keto, high carb, vegetarian etc. What people doing keto try to explain is that it is easier to lose on keto because you feel full and not constantly hungry. Fat and in particular protein are satiating so it is hard to overeat, whereas it is easy to eat carb rich foods all day. I have been doing keto for 10 months, it is now a lifestyle, it was a diet for the first few months, I felt great so do not feel I need to change.
i don't do keto and I feel full all the time ….does my sample size trump your sample size??????0 -
Most people doing keto think that eating carbs is a recipe for failure! I am a vegetarian, I don't eat meat but I get my protein for the day from plant sources. I have both carbs and protein for each meal and feel full and stay full for upto 3-4 hrsA calorie deficit will work whether keto, high carb, vegetarian etc. What people doing keto try to explain is that it is easier to lose on keto because you feel full and not constantly hungry. Fat and in particular protein are satiating so it is hard to overeat, whereas it is easy to eat carb rich foods all day. I have been doing keto for 10 months, it is now a lifestyle, it was a diet for the first few months, I felt great so do not feel I need to change.
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bcomingfitmom wrote: »
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved. [/quote]
[/quote]
Still don't see where I said nothing else would work.
Also, I wasn't just reffering to weight loss.
Generally, the obese are at greater risk for many of the things a keto diet can help with. If you're obese and have no problems with your metabolic system, cholesterol or diabetes or other insulin issues..that's great. The majority of those who are obese..I don't mean just on the line of being obese..would benefit more from low carb rather than just counting calories.0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »bcomingfitmom wrote: »
for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
[/quote]
Still don't see where I said nothing else would work.
Also, I wasn't just reffering to weight loss.
Generally, the obese are at greater risk for many of the things a keto diet can help with. If you're obese and have no problems with your metabolic system, cholesterol or diabetes or other insulin issues..that's great. The majority of those who are obese..I don't mean just on the line of being obese..would benefit more from low carb rather than just counting calories. [/quote]
If thats what you mean then yes I agree with you. But in your frist statement you said obese in general that is why I said its not true.
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bcomingfitmom wrote: »for the record, I do not care what people do IF, low carb, ketosis, etc…just don't try to say that one is superior to "boring calorie deficit" and we are good to go ...
Not saying you're wrong but..it seems to be the better way to go for the obese.
"In a group of obese patients, the VLCK diet was significantly more effective than a standard LC diet. At one year follow-up in the group with VLCK diet, most of the patients loss more than 10 % of their initial weight and lean mass was well preserved."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24584583/
@kellyb28 one year follow up..lean mass well preserved.
^^ There is where you said it[/quote]
link to full study would be appreciated..that is just an abstract…says nothing about sample size, methods etc…
[/quote]
Nope. Never, in that quote did I say nothing else would work.0
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