Ketosis
Replies
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Sorry it took me so long to reply, I've been extremely busy.
Anyway, I'm really glad I made this thread and appreciate all your comments. I'm not here to be "right" about something or to win a debate, I'm here to learn! Thanks for all of you who were polite in your response. As I said in my original post, if a ketogenic diet works for you, absolutely continue, I'm not saying you shouldn't. Also, I found another study online that changed my perspective a bit. Here it is:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC524027/
The study concluded that those switching to a ketogenic diet have decreased energy and endurance for the first week until they adapt in which their endurance improved and was sustained (except for anaerobic activities like sprinting or weight lifting). The subjects took sodium and potassium bicarbonate supplements and made sure to eat their required protein. It also looked at the health of the Inuit people and others living in Arctic regions where they survive off meat and the results showed that they were "physically unhampered despite consuming a diet that was essentially free of identifiable carbohydrate."
However, many physicians reported that those following a low-carb diet complained of lightheadedness, dizziness, and fatigue.
So, I have come to realize that a keto-diet might work for some people and is not necessarily unhealthy. However, for others, like myself, it may not work at all. I feel so much more energized when I eat enough carbs and don't have as much cravings. All depends on the person I suppose
As I posted in an earlier thread, the studies done on Inuit do not show that they are in ketosis since they eat about 25% of their diet in carbohydrates from the raw meat they consume. Not sure why this article acts as if that wasn't already determined, particularly because even before this study in the early 20th century it was assumed they would get enough glycogen from their meat to not be in ketosis. A follow up study showed that they were more resistant to going into ketosis than non-Inuit while fasting in cold weather.
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baconslave wrote: »
But, none of this sounds good, especially the brain fog.....I get keto-breath, that's how I know. Some others: dehydration, sudden weight loss caused by water loss when the glycogen gets flushed out, and a temporary-but-severe brain fog are all common.
I've not had these symptoms eating less of the foods I love.
A lot of people report what they call "keto flu" which is feeling a little disoriented and run down as your body adapts to a different fuel source. It usually only lasts a few days. But as anything else, it is highly individual. Some experience a little over a week or more with difference degrees of severity and symptoms.
Keto-flu was not a big deal for me. I had minor headaches, and a lot of the thirsties, for 3 days. Then, suddenly cravings were gone, chronic fatigue was gone, brain-fog from carbs was gone, energy returned, appetite got normal, and I felt phenomenal. The next week, I was exercising. I had acquired something I had never had before: control. Entirely worth it for a few days of discomfort, IMO. Considering what life was like before for me.
Really? You were on a keto diet and got brain fog from carbs?
I thought Keto involved very little carbs.
I eat carbs every day and I don't have a brain fog.
And keto flu? No thanks, I don't even like regular flu.:)
I realize diet plans are individual, but why do something that causes adverse symptoms? A person can get to the same place using portion control.
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The Inuit make their glucose from the process of gluconeogenesis, which is derived from protein. The amount of carbohydrates in meat is something along the lines of 1 percent by weight, a very small amount.
I would forget about that 1928 study.
You can if you like but that's not how science works.0 -
Unless there is something wrong with their body, every person on the planet can make glucose if they need it badly enough. Gluconeogensis is a human thing, not an Inuit thing.The Inuit make their glucose from the process of gluconeogenesis, which is derived from protein. The amount of carbohydrates in meat is something along the lines of 1 percent by weight, a very small amount.
I would forget about that 1928 study.
It's not something to strive for, though.
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If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
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baconslave wrote: »
But, none of this sounds good, especially the brain fog.....I get keto-breath, that's how I know. Some others: dehydration, sudden weight loss caused by water loss when the glycogen gets flushed out, and a temporary-but-severe brain fog are all common.
I've not had these symptoms eating less of the foods I love.
A lot of people report what they call "keto flu" which is feeling a little disoriented and run down as your body adapts to a different fuel source. It usually only lasts a few days. But as anything else, it is highly individual. Some experience a little over a week or more with difference degrees of severity and symptoms.
Keto-flu was not a big deal for me. I had minor headaches, and a lot of the thirsties, for 3 days. Then, suddenly cravings were gone, chronic fatigue was gone, brain-fog from carbs was gone, energy returned, appetite got normal, and I felt phenomenal. The next week, I was exercising. I had acquired something I had never had before: control. Entirely worth it for a few days of discomfort, IMO. Considering what life was like before for me.
Really? You were on a keto diet and got brain fog from carbs?
I thought Keto involved very little carbs.
I eat carbs every day and I don't have a brain fog.
And keto flu? No thanks, I don't even like regular flu.:)
I realize diet plans are individual, but why do something that causes adverse symptoms? A person can get to the same place using portion control.
No. Carbs gave me brain-fog before I started keto. I no longer had brain-fog without them. I'm glad they never gave you brain-fog, but they did me. They made me lethargic and sleepy as well.
Like I said, my quality of life has changed drastically for the better. Portion control was something I could never achieve before I moved my carb grams to keto level. I've managed to heal my broken relationship with food without that "noise." It's a crutch I needed.
And you could argue that calorie deficit and losing weight were what made things better, and you might be right. But I would never have been able to stick to calorie deficit long enough to lose this weight without the plan. I tried that for 16 years and did not succeed. So the point is moot.
I've lost 56lbs to date. And am still on plan and still find it easily sustainable. If I were still just counting calories, I would have started gaining any losses back long before now. I've regained a normal appetite and am satisfied on fewer calories. I don't have a twisted relationship with carb-heavy foods. I don't miss them either.
I'm happy you've found what works for you though. But this is what works for many people who are unable to master portion control. Keto takes the cravings away that push you to overeat.
It's not better or worse than anything else. It's just a tool.0 -
RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
I eat whatever I want as long as I don't go past my calories. Keto isn't black magic and if you eat too much no matter what it is you will put on fat.0 -
baconslave wrote: »
But, none of this sounds good, especially the brain fog.....I get keto-breath, that's how I know. Some others: dehydration, sudden weight loss caused by water loss when the glycogen gets flushed out, and a temporary-but-severe brain fog are all common.
I've not had these symptoms eating less of the foods I love.
A lot of people report what they call "keto flu" which is feeling a little disoriented and run down as your body adapts to a different fuel source. It usually only lasts a few days. But as anything else, it is highly individual. Some experience a little over a week or more with difference degrees of severity and symptoms.
Keto-flu was not a big deal for me. I had minor headaches, and a lot of the thirsties, for 3 days. Then, suddenly cravings were gone, chronic fatigue was gone, brain-fog from carbs was gone, energy returned, appetite got normal, and I felt phenomenal. The next week, I was exercising. I had acquired something I had never had before: control. Entirely worth it for a few days of discomfort, IMO. Considering what life was like before for me.
Really? You were on a keto diet and got brain fog from carbs?
I thought Keto involved very little carbs.
I eat carbs every day and I don't have a brain fog.
And keto flu? No thanks, I don't even like regular flu.:)
I realize diet plans are individual, but why do something that causes adverse symptoms? A person can get to the same place using portion control.
It is called sticking it out for a much greater, much longer lasting reward. yes, some people do have a rough first week. I have a very strong digestive system, so when I went through the induction phase, I only experience nausea for like a day, and then I was fine. Most of the negative reactions to this diet comes from people that the first week or two severely affected and they couldn't stick to it or stick it out. Then, they assume that is how the diet makes them feel, and humans have a tendency to a. only report the bad, and b. blow it out of proportions. But when I tell you that we never hit the wall during a workout, never require food for a workout if we have eaten sometime in the last 6 hours, we sleep better, our cholesterol levels go down, our diabetes are better regulated, our mental clarity is optimum, and we are a lot less hungry throughout the day, that is not an exaggeration. Mostly everyone on the diet can experience one or all of those benefits or more!0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
I eat whatever I want as long as I don't go past my calories. Keto isn't black magic and if you eat too much no matter what it is you will put on fat.
:-/ never said it was, and yes you will, although I never mentioned weight loss/gain. But since you brought it up, lets talk. This diet is no better than the other if someone can utilize either to help themselves. It is more beneficial for the person that has a tendency to overeat, as the fat content naturally and drastically reduces appettite (not metabolism). Since the person on the diet eats less and less frequently, it reduces the chances that that person will overeat. That is one of the reasons it is suggested. It will most help people who are heavier and cannot figure it out, not people who are fit or stacked (besides the standard benefits of the diet itself aside from weight loss.)
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RockstarWilson wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
I eat whatever I want as long as I don't go past my calories. Keto isn't black magic and if you eat too much no matter what it is you will put on fat.
:-/ never said it was, and yes you will, although I never mentioned weight loss/gain. But since you brought it up, lets talk. This diet is no better than the other if someone can utilize either to help themselves. It is more beneficial for the person that has a tendency to overeat, as the fat content naturally and drastically reduces appettite (not metabolism). Since the person on the diet eats less and less frequently, it reduces the chances that that person will overeat. That is one of the reasons it is suggested. It will most help people who are heavier and cannot figure it out, not people who are fit or stacked (besides the standard benefits of the diet itself aside from weight loss.)
I agree that if it works and it isn't shown to be harmful that it's perfectly good. It seems to be the only way some can stick to a diet and in that case it is a good choice. However, it has to be something that can be a long-term plan or old habits will come back and that's the danger of any diet that doesn't actually involve a true lifestyle change. I hope you have found what works for you and that isn't just a here today gone tomorrow diet.
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RockstarWilson wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet.
I eat whatever I want as long as I don't go past my calories. Keto isn't black magic and if you eat too much no matter what it is you will put on fat.
:-/ never said it was, and yes you will, although I never mentioned weight loss/gain. But since you brought it up, lets talk. This diet is no better than the other if someone can utilize it to help them. It is more beneficial for the person that has a tendency to overeat, as the fat content naturally and drastically reduces appettite (not metabolism). Since the person on the diet eats less and less frequently, it reduces the chances that that person will overeat. That is one of the reasons it is suggested. It will most help people who are heavier and cannot figure it out, not people who are fit or stacked (besides the standard benefits of the diet itself aside from weight loss.)
I second all that. I just had one of those keto days when I've eaten 3 meals already and didn't break 1000 cals. I had to force a snack. On days I actually eat enough, I rarely end up eating back 100 of my exercise calories before I'm stuffed. I'm just plain more satisfied with less food. I go over calories once a week to drink on Saturday night with my man and watch old movies.
This would have been unheard of before, when I could easily eat 3,000 or 4,000 calories in a day and couldn't stop myself because I was always hungry. Now, I don't eat from 8:30pm till 8:30am. 6 hours passes between breakfast and lunch before I'm hungry. And I workout for an hour 5 days a week. I could workout longer, but I just dont' have the time.0 -
Thank you for clearing up the carb and brain questions, because I was truly baffled.baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »
But, none of this sounds good, especially the brain fog.....I get keto-breath, that's how I know. Some others: dehydration, sudden weight loss caused by water loss when the glycogen gets flushed out, and a temporary-but-severe brain fog are all common.
I've not had these symptoms eating less of the foods I love.
A lot of people report what they call "keto flu" which is feeling a little disoriented and run down as your body adapts to a different fuel source. It usually only lasts a few days. But as anything else, it is highly individual. Some experience a little over a week or more with difference degrees of severity and symptoms.
Keto-flu was not a big deal for me. I had minor headaches, and a lot of the thirsties, for 3 days. Then, suddenly cravings were gone, chronic fatigue was gone, brain-fog from carbs was gone, energy returned, appetite got normal, and I felt phenomenal. The next week, I was exercising. I had acquired something I had never had before: control. Entirely worth it for a few days of discomfort, IMO. Considering what life was like before for me.
Really? You were on a keto diet and got brain fog from carbs?
I thought Keto involved very little carbs.
I eat carbs every day and I don't have a brain fog.
And keto flu? No thanks, I don't even like regular flu.:)
I realize diet plans are individual, but why do something that causes adverse symptoms? A person can get to the same place using portion control.
No. Carbs gave me brain-fog before I started keto. I no longer had brain-fog without them. I'm glad they never gave you brain-fog, but they did me. They made me lethargic and sleepy as well.
Like I said, my quality of life has changed drastically for the better. Portion control was something I could never achieve before I moved my carb grams to keto level. I've managed to heal my broken relationship with food without that "noise." It's a crutch I needed.
And you could argue that calorie deficit and losing weight were what made things better, and you might be right. But I would never have been able to stick to calorie deficit long enough to lose this weight without the plan. I tried that for 16 years and did not succeed. So the point is moot.
I've lost 56lbs to date. And am still on plan and still find it easily sustainable. If I were still just counting calories, I would have started gaining any losses back long before now. I've regained a normal appetite and am satisfied on fewer calories. I don't have a twisted relationship with carb-heavy foods. I don't miss them either.
I'm happy you've found what works for you though. But this is what works for many people who are unable to master portion control. Keto takes the cravings away that push you to overeat.
It's not better or worse than anything else. It's just a tool.
Yeah, I don't get brain fog from carbs, but I did used to get all brain-wacky if I overate sugar. I learned it was never the sugar in of itself that made me feel that way, but that I was eating too much of it because I chose not to control the food-to-hand-to-mouth movement. Now I eat sugar in moderation and I'm fine.
I really appreciate that you are sharing from your point of view what works for you. I used to do food restriction (mine was low fat, sugar free) until I kept falling off the wagon. It's only been since I decided to give portion control a try-allow all foods I love just eat less of them. That definitely works for me.
To each our own.
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I enjoy any food I want as long as it fits into my calories. Love bacon, can't eat cheese (lactose intolerant) except Parmesan but don't like it all that well, and I go through avocado phases. All is good.RockstarWilson wrote: »
If we thought about things in the sense of it might take a very long time for something to become a risk, possibly, then we wouldn't do anything in life.
I'm not a fan of Keto for myself because:
I don't find it necessary to burn fat.
I love eating pizza, ice cream, bagels, pancakes, waffles, cookies, cereal, brownies on a regular basis.
I like to cut with my calories and carbs as high as possible to allow for as much variety as possible and also to allow myself as much room as possible to adjust calories and macros towards the end of my cut as needed without having to do cardio.
Keto allows me to eat bacon every day. Keto allows me to have half a block of cheese every day. keto allows me to eat avocados every day. The foods I enjoy I eat everyday on this diet, in mass quantities. Heck, most times I eat bacon, it is the main course. So, there is no right or wrong answer here. If you get results by how you do things, then it is a right way.
But just out of curiosity, how often do you enjoy those foods? A lot of what you listed off has a ton of fat that comes with those carbs, and they cannot coexist as healthy, so those must be novelties in your diet. 0 -
Thank you for clearing up the carb and brain questions, because I was truly baffled.baconslave wrote: »baconslave wrote: »
But, none of this sounds good, especially the brain fog.....I get keto-breath, that's how I know. Some others: dehydration, sudden weight loss caused by water loss when the glycogen gets flushed out, and a temporary-but-severe brain fog are all common.
I've not had these symptoms eating less of the foods I love.
A lot of people report what they call "keto flu" which is feeling a little disoriented and run down as your body adapts to a different fuel source. It usually only lasts a few days. But as anything else, it is highly individual. Some experience a little over a week or more with difference degrees of severity and symptoms.
Keto-flu was not a big deal for me. I had minor headaches, and a lot of the thirsties, for 3 days. Then, suddenly cravings were gone, chronic fatigue was gone, brain-fog from carbs was gone, energy returned, appetite got normal, and I felt phenomenal. The next week, I was exercising. I had acquired something I had never had before: control. Entirely worth it for a few days of discomfort, IMO. Considering what life was like before for me.
Really? You were on a keto diet and got brain fog from carbs?
I thought Keto involved very little carbs.
I eat carbs every day and I don't have a brain fog.
And keto flu? No thanks, I don't even like regular flu.:)
I realize diet plans are individual, but why do something that causes adverse symptoms? A person can get to the same place using portion control.
No. Carbs gave me brain-fog before I started keto. I no longer had brain-fog without them. I'm glad they never gave you brain-fog, but they did me. They made me lethargic and sleepy as well.
Like I said, my quality of life has changed drastically for the better. Portion control was something I could never achieve before I moved my carb grams to keto level. I've managed to heal my broken relationship with food without that "noise." It's a crutch I needed.
And you could argue that calorie deficit and losing weight were what made things better, and you might be right. But I would never have been able to stick to calorie deficit long enough to lose this weight without the plan. I tried that for 16 years and did not succeed. So the point is moot.
I've lost 56lbs to date. And am still on plan and still find it easily sustainable. If I were still just counting calories, I would have started gaining any losses back long before now. I've regained a normal appetite and am satisfied on fewer calories. I don't have a twisted relationship with carb-heavy foods. I don't miss them either.
I'm happy you've found what works for you though. But this is what works for many people who are unable to master portion control. Keto takes the cravings away that push you to overeat.
It's not better or worse than anything else. It's just a tool. Yeah, I don't get brain fog from carbs, but I did used to get all brain-wacky if I overate sugar. I learned it was never the sugar in of itself that made me feel that way, but that I was eating too much of it because I chose not to control the food-to-hand-to-mouth movement. Now I eat sugar in moderation and I'm fine.
I really appreciate that you are sharing from your point of view what works for you. I used to do food restriction (mine was low fat, sugar free) until I kept falling off the wagon. It's only been since I decided to give portion control a try-allow all foods I love just eat less of them. That definitely works for me.
To each our own.
You might find this article informative psychologytoday.com/blog/evolutionary-psychiatry/201104/your-brain-ketones?tr=MostViewed0 -
baconslave wrote: »Something else interesting:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2129159/
And also, there are varying levels of ketosis which correspond to different levels of ketones in the blood.
blood concentration (millimolar)
< 0.2 not in ketosis
0.2 - 0.5 slight/mild ketosis
0.5 - 3.0 nutritional ketosis
2.5 - 3.5 post-exercise ketosis
3.0 - 6.0 starvation ketosis
15 - 25 ketoacidosis
The majority of fat-adapted people in nutritional ketosis couldn't reach starvation ketosis if they tried. And I know people who have tried to get above 4 mmol/L. Ketoacidosis occurs mainly in diabetics whose diabetes has been uncontrolled to the point that the body no longer produces insulin AT ALL. Also it's found in severe alcoholics. You'll also note that the gap between "starvation ketosis" and ketoacidosis is quite large. A great number of conditions must be met for these extreme conditions to occur.
So you might want to research the difference between nutritional ketosis, starvation ketosis, and genuine ketoacidosis. Ketoacidosis is the extreme side of the ketosis spectrum and is bad news. But as I said, it is usually only found under extreme circumstances. Not the run-of-the-mill low-carb diet.
baconslave thanks for sharing the great info above. It as been just three months since I learned about ketosis. The rheumatologist asked me to research Enbrel for pain control of my arthritis (AS) that was totally out of control. Thankfully I learned about coconut oil when doing my research then that lead me to learning about living a life in ketosis. After three months I found this site when looking for more info on how the cheap breath analyzers worked to determine when in or out of ketosis.
My pain level was running on the high side of 5 and now it is on the low side of 5. Using coconut oil was just for pain manage but after 10 weeks of using it and cutting back on the carbs (more like cutting out the carbs) I had not lost or gained any weight but had lost an inch on my belt and felt more fit. The last two weeks I have actually started loosing some weight which is a nice plus to lower level of physical pain.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »I am not a Keto fan but I am not sure of it being any more dangerous than any other diet as long as you supliment calcium etc. Keto diets have been in use since the 20s to treat epilepsy and ADHD and to my knowledge these did not cause serious long term effects other than the fact that those diets generally sucked.
The jury is still out on long term efftects but I don't think Ketosis is either more dangerous or more beneficial than other diets if done properly except that I wont give up my carbs.
ETA I also wouldn't recommend it for endurance athletes since your body would need to generate all glocouse via gluconeogenesis and I am not aware of any top performers who have been successful on Keto diets but if anyone has a study I would be interested.
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/is-ketosis-dangerous
Wheelhouse15 it sounds like you would be interested in knowing more about Blog - The Eating Academy | Peter Attia, M.D.
Dr. Attia has been in ketosis for years and had done deep research using himself as the athlete. There are videos on Youtube of him giving talks on the subject.
Wheelhouse15 I am new to the world of ketosis since it was like 7 Aug 2014 when I first heard about it in a real way because I was looking for pain relief that did not end up killing me.
Stopping from using glucose for our muscles (including the heart) and to power the brain is one reason people move from living on glucose to living on ketones.
Review Krebs Cycle to see how humans do not have to have carbs to make energy.
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/biology/cellular-respiration/v/krebs-citric-acid-cycle
A keto diet is of interest to people do not not want to wind up with Type 2 diabetes that may run in their family. Many of us have heard of fasting. People go 40 days with only water because they are in a state of ketosis.
Just as some people medically can not readily loose weight due to health issues some people would die from trying to fast for 40 days with only water.
There is good and bad info on the web as well as in the Drs. offices.
You may be like me and be unaware we are Flex Fuel machines that can run on carbs or run on fat. Yes there are the proteins that you mentioned that can be to a large degree converted to glucose as well.
I think learning that there is live without carbs was life changing for me perhaps. For some reason when living on a high fat diet with some protein and next to no carbs (20-50 grams a day) one does not really get hungry and the carb cravings really do go away when living on ketones (mainly fats) vs glucose mainly carbs.
Do some research and see what you discover because you are on the right track already.
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Thanks for the links I will look at them but I do have a background in biochem and microbio so the Kreb/TCA cycle is something I've studied for a while. I am aware we can exist in ketosis for extended periods and if I recall correctly we are one of the few animals that have brains that can utilize ketone bodies as well as glucose (but not all of the brain can). I am only interested in science and if the balance of evidence suggests something than I have no issue saying that this is the way it is based on our current level of knowledge. At present I do not see evidence that keto is superior to glucose fueling except in specific situations but if the body of knowledge changes I will accept that as the established fact.0
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I really want to further discuss the topic of ketosis from the other thread (which appears to have been closed). A lot of you thought that I was wrong when I said that it is unhealthy to be in a state of ketosis. Here is some information that I'd like to share that is straight from my nutrition text book titled "Perspectives in Nutrition: A Fundamental Approach" by Carol Byrd-Bredbenner, Gaile Moe, Donna Beshgetoor, Jacqueline Berning, and Danita Kelley...published in 2014.
"Most of the digestible carbohydrates in our diets are broken down to glucose. As glucose, they provide a primary source of energy, spare protein from use as an energy source, and prevent ketosis.
The main function of glucose is to act as a source of energy for body cells. In fact, red blood cells and cells of the central nervous system derive almost all of their energy from glucose. Glucose also fuels muscle cells and other body cells." (Hence, carbs are important.)
"The amino acids that make up dietary protein are used to build body tissues and to perform other vital functions only when carbohydrate intake provides enough glucose for energy needs. If you do not consume enough carbs to yield glucose, your body is forced to break down amino acids in your muscle tissue and other organs to make glucose. However, when dietary carb intake is adequate to maintain blood glucose levels, protein is "spared" from use as energy." (However, most of us consume enough protein so sparing proteins isn't necessarily an important role of carbs, but I wanted to include this for some of us who might not be eating enough).
"A minimal intake of carbs (50-100g per day) is necessary for the complete breakdown of fats to CO2 and H2O. When carb intake falls below this level, the release of hormone insulin decreases, resulting in the release of large amount of fatty acids from adipose tissue to provide energy for body cells. These fatty acids travel in the bloodstream to the liver. The subsequent incomplete breakdown of these fatty acids in the liver result in the formation of acid compounds called ketone bodies.
The brain and other cells can adapt to use ketones for energy when carb intake is inadequate. This is an important survival mechanism during starvation.
Many low-carb/high-fat weight-reduction diets (Atkins, South Beach) and fasting regimens promote ketosis as a beneficial state for successful weight loss. Ketosis can suppress one's appetite, resulting in a lower calorie intake. It also can cause increased loss of water from the body, which may be reflected in lower body weight. However, over time, ketosis can lead to serious consequences, such as dehydration, loss of lean body mass, and electrolyte imbalances. If severe, ketosis can even cause coma and death."
If you're eating low-carb and feel great, then I'm not saying you should change that. I just want to make people aware of the potential risks if you're doing it for too long, not drinking enough water, not maintaining body protein mass, etc. The low-carb diet just seems like another fad diet to me... Sure, you will absolutely lose weight (and lots of water weight) but is it healthy? Well, I provided you with this information, so now it's up to you to decide.
kellyb28 I think you may be serious but do you realize how you have mixed facts and fiction together to the point where what you posted is dangerous?
Ketosis is just a normal state when a relative healthy human eats less than 50 grams of carbs a day. Now ketoacidosis on the other hand can and will kill if not addressed at once but that is ketosis. Ketoacidosis is a real risk in insulin dependent persons but not in the rest of the population.
No dieting should be done willy-nilly because the human body is very complex and there are people for medical reasons can NOT lose weight. There are others who can lose weight but not keep it off. Until three months ago I thought it was just about counting calories. I am 63 WM and hold an OD degree. Where on the web or in an MD's office there is both good and bad dieting advice out there.
Keep on researching and you will get a grasp on ketosis that is factual. Some other members have posted some very good info in this thread that you started I am sure with good intent.
I think moving to a high fat/low carb diet will make one feel bad just like stopping smoking or doing heroin can do in the short run. I have used coconut oil for much of my fat needs and I thought I was going to die the first few weeks and even Googled "dying from coconut oil". That was when I learned about the term "Herxheimer reaction".
Keep in mind my main interest in ketosis/coconut oil is for pain relief without having to take cancer causing drugs. This site has info on how to use the cheap breath analyzers off eBay to determine where on is in a state of ketosis and if so at what relative level that I found using Google tonight.
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Keto diets are used in the body building world in short cycles to lean out in the last weeks before a show, its not meant to be long term because yes, it is dangerous0
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MinimalistShoeAddict wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »ETA I also wouldn't recommend it for endurance athletes since your body would need to generate all glocouse via gluconeogenesis and I am not aware of any top performers who have been successful on Keto diets but if anyone has a study I would be interested.
I am not on a keto diet but would also be interested in seeing such a study. Has anyone heard of any athlete ever winning an endurance event on a keto diet?
apparently Lebron and Kobi have been doing low carb….but I don't think they are doing Keto..
on that subject, has anyone seen pictures of ole King James these days? he looks ALOT smaller and he used to be jacked….interesting to see how that works for him this season ..I think it will hurt him, but that is just my opinion ..
Yes, it reminded me of what Mark Macguire(baseball), Howie Long(football), and others look like after their playing days. Frontal lobe smaller, jawline less prominent, etc. Muscular frame changed in a short period of time.
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Also, in the morning when we wake up after a 7 hour period of not eating, all of us are in the state of ketosis. In other words, in the aggregate we are burning fats for fuel.
Fasting blood ketones are usually negligible in people eating a high carb diet as glycogen reserves are deployed to supply blood glucose instead. You can see this in studies of low carb vs high carb diets - check the baseline fasting ketones and the difference between the groups.
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harlequin0318 wrote: »Keto diets are used in the body building world in short cycles to lean out in the last weeks before a show, its not meant to be long term because yes, it is dangerous
Keto diet is used in medical world, as well. If you go back and read some of the articles posted by others, you will see that it is no more dangerous (and much more beneficial for those with diabetes, seizure disorders..the list is long) than any other diet if it is done properly. No one should diet in any way without doing the research.
Some people have to use it long term..0 -
harlequin0318 wrote: »Keto diets are used in the body building world in short cycles to lean out in the last weeks before a show, its not meant to be long term because yes, it is dangerous
As if bodybuilding is about health and as if bodybuilder shave a clue about health. Now that's funny.
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Obviously you have no proof to back up your facts. Why is it dangerous long term? Obviously you didn't take time to read through the thread before posting.harlequin0318 wrote: »Keto diets are used in the body building world in short cycles to lean out in the last weeks before a show, its not meant to be long term because yes, it is dangerous
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I think your confusing ketoacidosis (which is what diabetics get because they can't produce enough insulin) with nutritional ketosis. Ketoacidosis is not possible in a person who can produce insulin. I actually had high cholesterol before starting this diet, and now I have normal levels. I make sure I eat good fats, nuts, oils, real butter, mayo. Your body does not need all those carbs, and you don't need much fat to put you in fat burning mode, as long as you keep carbs down. I have been on keto diet for a year, and have never felt better.0
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Newbie (to keto) question(s). Sorry if this is the wrong thread. Can I program MyFitnessPal to show net carbs for food values? If so, how? And I presume I should change my goals to reflect net carb totals, calories, and fiber. Anything else? Thanks!0
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I have to say that I am becoming quite fascinated by ketosis and, I may actually further reduce my already low carb (50-100 g) daily allotment to under 50g after the holiday season passes. However, that said, if ketosis can occur between 40-50 g, why do folks reduce to 20g?
I gather that people in Ketosis take lots of vitamins to make up for the lost nutrition from cutting out the 5-7 servings of veggies?
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When I had gestational diabetes, one of the things they make you do is take a urine test to see the ketone level in the urine. If it's too high, that's a risk/danger to the baby, so they had me up my diet, eat more with more carbs until I tested in the normal range. While the diabetic diet tends to be lower carb, I don't think it's drastic, and it was pretty sustainable.0
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@RoseyDgirl wrote: »I have to say that I am becoming quite fascinated by ketosis and, I may actually further reduce my already low carb (50-100 g) daily allotment to under 50g after the holiday season passes. However, that said, if ketosis can occur between 40-50 g, why do folks reduce to 20g?
I gather that people in Ketosis take lots of vitamins to make up for the lost nutrition from cutting out the 5-7 servings of veggies?
You'll probably get more info on the keto boards. For me personally, the lower my carb grams, the easier it is for me to control sugar and carb. If I start taking even 5 grams more, the cravings start gnawing at me. But it's entirely a personal choice. Some people can get into nutritional ketosis with more, some need less.
Here's the board: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/1143-keto0 -
I was in denial, buying L, XL, too XXL, " I am not too fat" gross self deception! Portion sizes just got bigger, 2 slices pizza became one large pizza! stress craves carbs! Plain stupidity, and lack of self love/respect! and excuses!
BMI 33.6 I am in the obese range class1, just calculated it! and WRONG focus! My mind is so tired of climbing this mountain and falling back down! trying every year! I am so tired of learning what to eat and what to eat, I love fruits and vegetables but this diet does not work! hate animal source of proteins!
Today going to give the keto diet a chance! just sick and tired of dieting. Very worried about the high fat and arteries? A friend lost weight on this diet, he did no exercise, but lost muscle tone! I hate exercise and gym so going to try this even though I don't like the sound of high fat. The will power and mind determination seems to be the hardest. and craving snacks! Being hungry messes with my mind I cannot focus on painting, work suffers! But then results count right! thin is thin! so keto it is, last choice!. No fruits! grapes, cherries, yellow peach, watermelon, etc damn! If there is a better way than keto please let me know.
GOD please help me get healthy and reach my healthy weight. 28-10-2014, 10:20pm.0
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