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mom3over40

One more question

Folks here on MFP are very passionate about lifting free weights. It seems that using gym machines or calisthenics are often considered inefficient. Can you shade some lights in this area? For people who have limited resources, can they still benefit from the machines or body-weight strength training?

Oh... that's two questions...

allie_00p

stroutman81 wrote: »

elsie_fair wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

elsie_fair wrote: »

Great thread!
Any recommendations for stretches/exercises for knee pain? I have been lifting for about 8 months and recently getting pain in one of my knees (it feels like the muscle/tendon/whatever along the back of my knee is super tight and painful). It often pops when I squat (although I have pretty "crackly" joints in general)

I am also recovering from a ruptured muscle in my arm, so basically legs are all I can do right now - I want to make sure I don't mess them up, too.

How did you rupture (I'm guessing) your bicep?

And it would be inappropriate for me to try and take a stab at what's going on with your knee. I'd simply suggest to get it looked at by a qualified professional... like a good physio. And definitely do NOT force through the pain!

I actually don't know exactly how - I had increased my overall volume (went from consistent 3 days a week to 4-5) and I had an upper body day after which I had some pretty serious DOMS in my triceps but nothing alarming, went thru the same routine the next week, and a couple days after that my arm swelled up to twice its size so I went to the doc. Now that I'm resting, I can actually feel the spot where it is and it's painful if I even try to reach too far, let alone lift anything, I don't know how I didn't know right away
I think my hamstring is tight, which may be causing the knee pain, I'm using my rest time to roll and stretch, some leg work and a little cardio just to give me something to do in the meantime. I've just been looking around for good exercises to strengthen the muscles around my knee and improve my flexibility.

I can appreciate that. I can't say enough about how important it is to be assessed by someone who knows what they're talking about. Why guess with it? A qualified professional will be able to assess your strengths and weaknesses, imbalances, etc and put you on a path that makes sense for your situation.

I know it's a pain, but it's well worth it if you ask me.

If I were setting out on a cross country road trip, I'd certainly take my truck to the mechanic for a look over.

Thank you. I guess I've known that I should probably do that but trying to avoid it for some reason - I've always been super healthy and never had to see a specialist before

stroutman81

mom3over40 wrote: »

I weigh myself daily and like to see if the fluctuation is going up or down. I guess I am kind of nerdy in that sense, that's why I like measurable difference

Hey, if you can tolerate the acute fluctuations with detached emotions... have at it. I like the whole daily inspection myself. I like to tell clients that daily fluctuations are really about monitoring water flux and longer term trends, like weekly averages, are about monitoring fat loss.

In fact, my weight range have dropped about 1 lb this past month and my biceps feel more tight when flexed, so, I guess I should take that as progress then...

Yes.

Progress is progress.

That's what I have heard! It is also why I am a little confused as to how to "measure" progress. As you said, just don't want to keep spinning the wheel when progress is missing or even actually going the wrong way. But your answer helped me understand that now. Thanks!

No problem. And the women who are heavier now then when they started have lost fat while maintaining muscle (maybe adding a little). Once they got down to a certain level of leanness, they wanted more... so we'd ramp up cals and focus on weight/muscle gain for a stint. Then we'd go back into fat loss mode while working to preserve as much as the new muscle as possible. Rinse repeat as necessary.

When your goal is fat loss, the scale should go down over time. This reduction should be somewhat regular... but not linear. A lot of people confuse regularity with linearity. They are worlds apart.

Actually, I could usually make it under 1500 during the week... It is the weekend eating out that throws it off. Well, I guess you have said what I need to hear for me to keep working at my caloric goal!

And that's fine. I have plenty of clients who allocate their calorie distributions heavier on the weekends. For example, if your average daily target was 1500, you could get away with 5 days at 1350 and 2 days at 1875. The average is still 1500. Or you could go with 6 days at 1400ish and 1 day at 2000. The average is still 1500.

There are endless possibilities. Choosing one requires experimentation and it depends on the person, their lifestyle, their training, and sometimes necessity to keep things moving.

stroutman81

kcmccormack wrote: »

Awesome insight, thank you tons for taking the time to answer. About the deficit. I should've clarified I know I'm in a deficit, I was just unclear if it was significant enough. The more I read the more I kinda confused myself about how much I should eat. But 1500 seems to be a good/happy spot considering I eat about 4 smaller meals a day. Protein seems to stick to 15-20% of my calories a day? Should I aim for more?

If 4 small meals work for you, where calories are pretty evenly distributed across the day, that's perfectly fine. Don't feel locked into this feed pattern, though. Yes, generally with smaller calorie allotments, which are in place by default with smaller women, fewer meals per day makes sense. Otherwise meals are too dang small to satiate.

But you can experiment with 3, 4, 5.

You can experiment with stacking more of your calories in the meals after your workouts.

There are a lot of ways to slice and dice and what's most important is regulating hunger as best possible as well as setting things up with sustainability in mind.

As for protein, I tend to shy away from viewing it in terms of percentages. Absolute amounts make a heck of a lot more sense to me. Anywhere from .8 - 1.5 grams per pound seems to be a great ballpark to find yourself in. For fatter individuals, basing this ballpark on pounds of goal body weight makes a little more sense.

If that ballpark puts you at roughly 15-20% calories, then have at it.

Hint...

Yours falls below the lower end of that ballpark.

As for what my goals are, I haven't set a weight since I don't know what to expect my body to look like below like 130.

I'd say that's a good idea. Goal weights are sort of silly if you ask me. Especially if that's what people are basing everything on. If it's just a vague target that you'll use to reassess at that point in time... so be it. But even there, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I was a swimmer/diver for 11 years and disliked my body when it was too thin cause it looked too athletic on account of my straight body/wide shoulders. More just general lifestyle goal. I was doing vinyasa yoga 3-4 days and running 3 miles 3-4days before p90x. In the summer months I do less cause I'm a waitress/caterer in a resort town and tend to have 2jobs and work on my feet running around like a crazy person for 12-13hrs a day. But I digress, the look I'm going for is lower body fat, tighter, leaner (get rid of the general "I loved beer in college" look), which is really gonna come down to diet right?

Diet takes care of the fat loss. Conditioning/cardio is an adjunct to diet... helps it out a bit... allows you to eat a bit more food. When you're on your feet all day during summers, you can likely cut back on it. But a constant should be resistance training. Two sides to this coin... fat and muscle. The former things take care of fat management. Resistance training, though, is required for muscle management.

Weighing daily doesn't screw with my head much, cause I know now it fluctuates so much, Im just curious why I go up and down so much? Is it water? I'm typically pretty vigilant about sodium.

Yup, water flux.

Remember, 3500 calories in a single pound of fat. Unless you're going into daily deficits or surpluses by multiples of 3500 each day, it's certainly not fat mass causing the swings. And the physiological process of building muscle is slow (and closer to nil in a deficit), so it's not like it's this. But water, glycogen, and bowel matter can all do wonky things on the scale day to day.

stroutman81

kcmccormack wrote: »

Also, personal question for you: do you cut alcohol out of your diet? Or do you enjoy it in moderation?

No.

I drink less of it for sure.

But there are times and places.

stroutman81

mom3over40 wrote: »

One more question

Folks here on MFP are very passionate about lifting free weights. It seems that using gym machines or calisthenics are often considered inefficient. Can you shade some lights in this area? For people who have limited resources, can they still benefit from the machines or body-weight strength training?

Oh... that's two questions...

Well, if you have access to gym machines, you likely don't have limited resources... right? Most gyms have machines and free weights. And in these cases, it needn't be an either/or proposition.

But in general... yes... free weights are superior. That doesn't render other modalities as inefficient or ineffective though.

I actually just came in from training a client in my gym. She used a barbell, dumbbells, a kettlebell, a machine, suspension straps, and her body weight for some calisthenics.

Everything has a time and a place.

And if you truly are limited, you do what you need to do to get by. I remember as a kid, all I wanted was a weight set. We didn't grow up with money and it simply wasn't happening immediately. I would do lunges, pushups, pullups, etc with my schoolbag loaded up with whatever I could find that weighed enough. I remember doing overhead lunges with chunks of wood from my dad's woodpile that he used for burning.

There are always ways to create progressive overload.

Think of it like this. Your quad muscles don't know if you're doing a barbell squat, a goblet squat with a dumbbell or kettlebell, a leg press on a machine, or squats holding two gallon jugs with a backpack on your back.

Follow me?

mom3over40

Thanks again! Learning so much already!

stroutman81 wrote: »

And that's fine. I have plenty of clients who allocate their calorie distributions heavier on the weekends. For example, if your average daily target was 1500, you could get away with 5 days at 1350 and 2 days at 1875. The average is still 1500. Or you could go with 6 days at 1400ish and 1 day at 2000. The average is still 1500.

There are endless possibilities. Choosing one requires experimentation and it depends on the person, their lifestyle, their training, and sometimes necessity to keep things moving.

I assume I should still hit the same protein goal every day, right? I've heard somewhere that our body cannot store protein/amino acids to build/repair/sustain muscle...

Well, if you have access to gym machines, you likely don't have limited resources... right?

True... maybe limited in terms of mindset... I still feel intimidated to go into the weight room. Well, my current goal is to be able to do full pull-ups and hand-stand, so, I guess it doesn't hurt for me to continue my current routine I also have some stay-home mom friends who may not be able to go to the gym. It would be great if I can achieve some results to show them what some in-home workout can do. Many of them are skinnier than I am but, as of now, they may not be healthier than me anymore.

Think of it like this. Your quad muscles don't know if you're doing a barbell squat, a goblet squat with a dumbbell or kettlebell, a leg press on a machine, or squats holding two gallon jugs with a backpack on your back.

This is what I thought... that's why I don't really understand why free weights is superior. Maybe I'm not following you yet...

kcmccormack

stroutman81 wrote: »

kcmccormack wrote: »

Awesome insight, thank you tons for taking the time to answer. About the deficit. I should've clarified I know I'm in a deficit, I was just unclear if it was significant enough. The more I read the more I kinda confused myself about how much I should eat. But 1500 seems to be a good/happy spot considering I eat about 4 smaller meals a day. Protein seems to stick to 15-20% of my calories a day? Should I aim for more?

If 4 small meals work for you, where calories are pretty evenly distributed across the day, that's perfectly fine. Don't feel locked into this feed pattern, though. Yes, generally with smaller calorie allotments, which are in place by default with smaller women, fewer meals per day makes sense. Otherwise meals are too dang small to satiate.

But you can experiment with 3, 4, 5.

You can experiment with stacking more of your calories in the meals after your workouts.

There are a lot of ways to slice and dice and what's most important is regulating hunger as best possible as well as setting things up with sustainability in mind.

As for protein, I tend to shy away from viewing it in terms of percentages. Absolute amounts make a heck of a lot more sense to me. Anywhere from .8 - 1.5 grams per pound seems to be a great ballpark to find yourself in. For fatter individuals, basing this ballpark on pounds of goal body weight makes a little more sense.

If that ballpark puts you at roughly 15-20% calories, then have at it.

Hint...

Yours falls below the lower end of that ballpark.

As for what my goals are, I haven't set a weight since I don't know what to expect my body to look like below like 130.

I'd say that's a good idea. Goal weights are sort of silly if you ask me. Especially if that's what people are basing everything on. If it's just a vague target that you'll use to reassess at that point in time... so be it. But even there, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I was a swimmer/diver for 11 years and disliked my body when it was too thin cause it looked too athletic on account of my straight body/wide shoulders. More just general lifestyle goal. I was doing vinyasa yoga 3-4 days and running 3 miles 3-4days before p90x. In the summer months I do less cause I'm a waitress/caterer in a resort town and tend to have 2jobs and work on my feet running around like a crazy person for 12-13hrs a day. But I digress, the look I'm going for is lower body fat, tighter, leaner (get rid of the general "I loved beer in college" look), which is really gonna come down to diet right?

Diet takes care of the fat loss. Conditioning/cardio is an adjunct to diet... helps it out a bit... allows you to eat a bit more food. When you're on your feet all day during summers, you can likely cut back on it. But a constant should be resistance training. Two sides to this coin... fat and muscle. The former things take care of fat management. Resistance training, though, is required for muscle management.

Weighing daily doesn't screw with my head much, cause I know now it fluctuates so much, Im just curious why I go up and down so much? Is it water? I'm typically pretty vigilant about sodium.

Yup, water flux.

Remember, 3500 calories in a single pound of fat. Unless you're going into daily deficits or surpluses by multiples of 3500 each day, it's certainly not fat mass causing the swings. And the physiological process of building muscle is slow (and closer to nil in a deficit), so it's not like it's this. But water, glycogen, and bowel matter can all do wonky things on the scale day to day.

Thank you!! You're the best! Can't tell you how much I appreciate all your insight and detailed responses. You put so much time into answering all our questions, it's so awesome! It's so easy to over think all this stuff, you helped ease my mind %100000 and confirm I'm heading the right way. Very very much appreciated!

Thanks a million!:)

stroutman81

mom3over40 wrote: »

I assume I should still hit the same protein goal every day, right? I've heard somewhere that our body cannot store protein/amino acids to build/repair/sustain muscle...

Yup. Protein should be a constant along with essential fats and fiber. Ya don't have to get too anal with it. Protein for example... plus or minus 10-20% on any given day isn't likely a concern.

And you're right, there are no stores of protein like there is for carbs and fat. Well, I suppose you could call muscle a storage depot of AAs... but that's not a pool I'd like to tap into!

True... maybe limited in terms of mindset... I still feel intimidated to go into the weight room.

That's too bad. Sounds like you need a new mindset or a new gym!

You have to start someplace though and if you're not ready for it right now... so be it.

Well, my current goal is to be able to do full pull-ups and hand-stand, so, I guess it doesn't hurt for me to continue my current routine I also have some stay-home mom friends who may not be able to go to the gym. It would be great if I can achieve some results to show them what some in-home workout can do. Many of them are skinnier than I am but, as of now, they may not be healthier than me anymore.

I have a bunch of online clients who train out of their homes.

If it's in the budget, I have them pick up, at a minimum, a set of adjustable DBs. If it's not, we find other ways to make do.

You can certainly make progress from home, though.

This is what I thought... that's why I don't really understand why free weights is superior. Maybe I'm not following you yet...

Because the Internet says so.

Duh.



Free weights tend to be more functional. They require more stabilizer activity, they're more versatile, they're more individualizable (I made that word up), etc.

stroutman81

kcmccormack wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

kcmccormack wrote: »

Awesome insight, thank you tons for taking the time to answer. About the deficit. I should've clarified I know I'm in a deficit, I was just unclear if it was significant enough. The more I read the more I kinda confused myself about how much I should eat. But 1500 seems to be a good/happy spot considering I eat about 4 smaller meals a day. Protein seems to stick to 15-20% of my calories a day? Should I aim for more?

If 4 small meals work for you, where calories are pretty evenly distributed across the day, that's perfectly fine. Don't feel locked into this feed pattern, though. Yes, generally with smaller calorie allotments, which are in place by default with smaller women, fewer meals per day makes sense. Otherwise meals are too dang small to satiate.

But you can experiment with 3, 4, 5.

You can experiment with stacking more of your calories in the meals after your workouts.

There are a lot of ways to slice and dice and what's most important is regulating hunger as best possible as well as setting things up with sustainability in mind.

As for protein, I tend to shy away from viewing it in terms of percentages. Absolute amounts make a heck of a lot more sense to me. Anywhere from .8 - 1.5 grams per pound seems to be a great ballpark to find yourself in. For fatter individuals, basing this ballpark on pounds of goal body weight makes a little more sense.

If that ballpark puts you at roughly 15-20% calories, then have at it.

Hint...

Yours falls below the lower end of that ballpark.

As for what my goals are, I haven't set a weight since I don't know what to expect my body to look like below like 130.

I'd say that's a good idea. Goal weights are sort of silly if you ask me. Especially if that's what people are basing everything on. If it's just a vague target that you'll use to reassess at that point in time... so be it. But even there, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I was a swimmer/diver for 11 years and disliked my body when it was too thin cause it looked too athletic on account of my straight body/wide shoulders. More just general lifestyle goal. I was doing vinyasa yoga 3-4 days and running 3 miles 3-4days before p90x. In the summer months I do less cause I'm a waitress/caterer in a resort town and tend to have 2jobs and work on my feet running around like a crazy person for 12-13hrs a day. But I digress, the look I'm going for is lower body fat, tighter, leaner (get rid of the general "I loved beer in college" look), which is really gonna come down to diet right?

Diet takes care of the fat loss. Conditioning/cardio is an adjunct to diet... helps it out a bit... allows you to eat a bit more food. When you're on your feet all day during summers, you can likely cut back on it. But a constant should be resistance training. Two sides to this coin... fat and muscle. The former things take care of fat management. Resistance training, though, is required for muscle management.

Weighing daily doesn't screw with my head much, cause I know now it fluctuates so much, Im just curious why I go up and down so much? Is it water? I'm typically pretty vigilant about sodium.

Yup, water flux.

Remember, 3500 calories in a single pound of fat. Unless you're going into daily deficits or surpluses by multiples of 3500 each day, it's certainly not fat mass causing the swings. And the physiological process of building muscle is slow (and closer to nil in a deficit), so it's not like it's this. But water, glycogen, and bowel matter can all do wonky things on the scale day to day.

Thank you!! You're the best! Can't tell you how much I appreciate all your insight and detailed responses. You put so much time into answering all our questions, it's so awesome! It's so easy to over think all this stuff, you helped ease my mind %100000 and confirm I'm heading the right way. Very very much appreciated!

Thanks a million!:)

You're welcome a million.

nikkit321

Here's my question. I'm 5'5", 145lb, 45 years old. I run intervals for 5 miles (meaning run half a mile, walk a tenth of a mile and repeat) 5-6 days a week. I did the 1200 calorie bit for a long time and lost weight. I want to lengthen my run intervals but was struggling so thought I needed more calories. I decided to maintain for a while and try to push up my calories to see what my actual maintenance level is and improve my runs so have been going up by 100/day every week or two. I'm at 1700 right and am maintaining so I'm going to keep pushing the number up.

What I don't understand is how I'm maintaining at 1700 when according to Scooby, my BMR is 1323 and TDEE is 2050. Seems like I should be losing since I'm under my TDEE? And when I decide to cut again, what should my calories be?

stroutman81

nikkit321 wrote: »

Here's my question. I'm 5'5", 145lb, 45 years old. I run intervals for 5 miles (meaning run half a mile, walk a tenth of a mile and repeat) 5-6 days a week. I did the 1200 calorie bit for a long time and lost weight. I want to lengthen my run intervals but was struggling so thought I needed more calories. I decided to maintain for a while and try to push up my calories to see what my actual maintenance level is and improve my runs so have been going up by 100/day every week or two. I'm at 1700 right and am maintaining so I'm going to keep pushing the number up.

What I don't understand is how I'm maintaining at 1700 when according to Scooby, my BMR is 1323 and TDEE is 2050. Seems like I should be losing since I'm under my TDEE? And when I decide to cut again, what should my calories be?

When you do an online calorie calculator, it's not spitting out what your actual TDEE is. It's spitting out what your estimated TDEE is. Metabolism is adaptive to dieting. Create a calorie deficit and metabolism declines. How much depends on a lot of things.

So there's that.

Which jibes with your situation since you decided to cut calories drastically (too drastically if you ask me).

Not to mention that there's metabolic rate variability across matched populations. Meaning, if 100 people with your exact stats used this same calculator that you used, they'd all get the same output. Yet, in reality, there could be as much as a 30% swing from lowest to highest metabolic rate in that group.

Plus, weight doesn't go hand in hand with metabolism and calorie calculators. You very well might be losing fat but you're also eating more food and altering a lot of things which means more water, more bowel matter, you could be triggering some recomp, etc. And these things could be masking the actual fat loss that's occurring.

Long story short... it's not so simplistic.

But you're doing the right thing. Find your true maintenance. Sit there for a couple of weeks. Then create a sane deficit.

Liftng4Lis

stroutman81 wrote: »

So there's that.

Which jibes with your situation since you decided to cut calories drastically (too drastically if you ask me).

Not to mention that there's metabolic rate variability across matched populations. Meaning, if 100 people with your exact stats used this same calculator that you used, they'd all get the same output. Yet, in reality, there could be as much as a 30% swing from lowest to highest metabolic rate in that group.

Plus, weight doesn't go hand in hand with metabolism and calorie calculators. You very well might be losing fat but you're also eating more food and altering a lot of things which means more water, more bowel matter, you could be triggering some recomp, etc. And these things could be masking the actual fat loss that's occurring.

Long story short... it's not so simplistic.

But you're doing the right thing. Find your true maintenance. Sit there for a couple of weeks. Then create a sane deficit.

Did I tell you today that you're awesome Steve? You are SO awesome!

nikkit321

Thank you for your answer, that really does make sense. I find the entire thing so very confusing, particularly with so much contradictory information floating around. I know now that the 1200 was much too low, but that's what MFP gave me and I didn't understand about their net calories and eating back exercise calories when I started. I'm trying to figure it out now, and you've definitely helped!

Liftin4food

stroutman81 wrote: »

I would bet my money on no... you haven't exhausted your novice gains. You only put 3 months in and then you've been out for another 4-5 months. The fastest rate of gains typically happen over the course of the first year of progressive, consistent training. Mileage may vary from person to person, but that's the general rule.

It's safe to say that you barely have both feet out of the starting blocks.

I had my fingers crossed that you would say something like this

Thank you for the response.

KrisAZ000

What made you choose 1200 calories?

1200 was the MFP recommendation originally.

You should really check out this thread. It's a long read but I think it'll be well worth the investment of time.

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/113609/relatively-light-people-trying-to-get-leaner/p1

I will definitely read this later when I have more time!

But from a high level, here are some concepts for you to mull over:

1. In almost all cases, the goal should be to eat as much food/calories as possible while still allowing fat loss to happen at a reasonable rate. This is the case for a few reasons.

One big one is the fact that, as a culture, we are fantastic at losing weight. We do it all the time. But we are god awful at keeping it off. A large part of this has to do with the unsustainable methods most dieters use. They're simply relying on temporary measures. Temporary measures lead to temporary results since... once removed, behaviors revert back to old.

Secondly, big deficits tend to increase the risk of muscle loss. If you're in this primarily to look better with your clothes off, you have two factors to think about - fat and muscle. Everyone tends to jump right to the concept of fat loss and they try and demolish is with a blitz attack. This usually includes big deficits and lots of cardio.

But this approach totally neglects the muscle side of the coin. By being more conservative with your deficit, you help minimize muscle loss while dieting. In doing so, you minimize the chances of simply becoming a lighter, still soft version of your former self.

2. Stemming from what I said above regarding fat and muscle, not only does a more conservative approach to calorie management prevent muscle loss, but so too does resistance training. Progressive resistance training is part of a fat loss system to provide your body a REASON to hold onto the "good stuff."

Muscle is what provides your shape as fat is lost.

This is why you need to develop a holistic perspective and system of physique enhancement.

3. Now you're not just starting out. You've already lost a pretty substantial percentage of your total weight using pretty extreme methods while disregarding the muscle side of the coin. The question is, where do you go from here? I'll comment more on this after you reply with your initial reaction and questions.

Ok, I think I'm starting to get a better idea of how this all works. Basically I've been going about things all wrong and I need to decrease my deficit and start a progressive strength training routine.

Part of my problem is that I managed to get it in my head that the bigger the deficit the better, and that eating at a more modest deficit is "cheating" and a sign of me lacking self discipline. I will work on changing my way of thinking to be more realistic and less self-critical.

So, what would you recommend as far as daily calorie intake and a starting strength routine? Also, is it ok for me to still do some cardio? I enjoy the energy and happy feeling I get from it, so if there's a way for me to still incorporate it while building muscle, that would be great.

You also have a lot of "clean up" work you need to do with your current system before you go worrying about advanced stuff like training for stubborn fat.

It'd be sort of like changing your flat tire while your engine's on fire.

Great analogy. I will not worry about this part yet!

stroutman81

Liftng4Lis wrote: »

stroutman81 wrote: »

So there's that.

Which jibes with your situation since you decided to cut calories drastically (too drastically if you ask me).

Not to mention that there's metabolic rate variability across matched populations. Meaning, if 100 people with your exact stats used this same calculator that you used, they'd all get the same output. Yet, in reality, there could be as much as a 30% swing from lowest to highest metabolic rate in that group.

Plus, weight doesn't go hand in hand with metabolism and calorie calculators. You very well might be losing fat but you're also eating more food and altering a lot of things which means more water, more bowel matter, you could be triggering some recomp, etc. And these things could be masking the actual fat loss that's occurring.

Long story short... it's not so simplistic.

But you're doing the right thing. Find your true maintenance. Sit there for a couple of weeks. Then create a sane deficit.

Did I tell you today that you're awesome Steve? You are SO awesome!

Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

stroutman81

nikkit321 wrote: »

Thank you for your answer, that really does make sense. I find the entire thing so very confusing, particularly with so much contradictory information floating around. I know now that the 1200 was much too low, but that's what MFP gave me and I didn't understand about their net calories and eating back exercise calories when I started. I'm trying to figure it out now, and you've definitely helped!

That's the double edge of the 'net, ya know? It's amazing just how much information is at our fingertips. I was trying to explain to my grandmother the other day just how powerful of a tool my phone is. She couldn't wrap her head around it. It really makes you appreciate just how much we have and how easy it is to learn.

Then again, she doesn't understand how I can make a living teaching people fitness, haha.

On the flip side, though... the web creates an atmosphere of information overload. And the fact that the 'net has provided a stage for anyone with half a brain to spout off information certainly doesn't help. Someone told me recently that there are people here on MFP who, without any sort of real experience, started charging people money to tell them their macros. I mean, come on. This is where we are.

We have to be very selective about where we obtain our information.

I can't vouch for being an expert on MFPs methods. From what I understand, though, it sets 1200 calories as the safe floor. It's an arbitrary number that may or may not be "right" for a given person. But since they set it as a limit, if the number of pounds you tell the system you want to lose requires a calorie intake that is below 1200, it'll simply tell you, "eat 1200 calories."

I'm not really a fan of their system. But if it works for some people... so be it. It's just more complex than I think necessary.

stroutman81

KrisAZ000 wrote: »

1200 was the MFP recommendation originally.

This is sort of my point in my above post. I've met plenty of intelligent people who get wonky recommendations from this system. It's not intuitive enough. Or maybe there isn't enough disclosure about how numbers are being derived. I should really go through the process myself maybe.

Ok, I think I'm starting to get a better idea of how this all works. Basically I've been going about things all wrong and I need to decrease my deficit and start a progressive strength training routine.

You could be more wrong. Trust me. Not that you are, but don't beat yourself up too bad. It's one giant learning process for all of us. But yes... in general you want to bring calories up and start rounding out your exercise with some resistance training.

Part of my problem is that I managed to get it in my head that the bigger the deficit the better, and that eating at a more modest deficit is "cheating" and a sign of me lacking self discipline. I will work on changing my way of thinking to be more realistic and less self-critical.

You're not alone. Some serious flaw perceptions are born in the world of dieting. It's a byproduct of really deceptive marketing and tons of pressure to fit a very idealized and often time unattainable (at at least unsustainable) standard.

You really do have to let it all go. In fact, I'd argue this is your priority number one. And it's no easy task. Once thought patterns, beliefs, and perceptions take root... they're hard to get rid of.

Some general things to remind yourself everyday:

1. It's not a race. It's like anything else that's worth having in life... it requires a lot of work and time. Mostly time.

2. Less is usually more. It's mostly about coaxing the fat off more than it is about beating it off with deep deficits and excessive cardio.

3. It's not about making huge commitments to huge actions. Rather it's about making consistent commitments to minor actions. It's the small daily behaviors that drive us to where we want to be. Process over outcome focus!

4. If what you're doing today isn't something you can see yourself doing, in some form or fashion, forever... you're likely doing it wrong.

5. Self-compassion is immensely important. I find the way people talk to themselves breeds an abuse relationship with their bodies. The things they say to themselves and the demands they place on themselves aren't anything like they'd do to someone else. Be easy. When you get too serious, take a step back and reassess. Learn about mindfulness/meditation. And just be kind to yourself.

I could ramble on and on about my "rules" but you get the point. It's time to shift your thinking.

So, what would you recommend as far as daily calorie intake and a starting strength routine?

I've encountered folks who have eaten extremely low calories for years. No joke. You're not "in too deep." Especially seeing as how you had some time off from it around the holidays. That's a good thing. If you were my client, I'd likely suggest ramping calories up over the course of a couple weeks. Maybe 100 calories every 2 days or so.

At 144 lbs, your maintenance is likely in the neighborhood of 2000 calories per day. If you're still eating 1200, you could be up around 2000 in a matter a couple of weeks. This is just a matter of getting yourself back to a clean slate. Give your body a break and prep it for a more reasonable fat loss push. Not to mention the fact that it will give you the opportunity to find your true maintenance.

Once you're at 2000, park yourself there for a week or so. If your weight remains stable, you're at maintenance. If it declines, you could actually stand to go north of there. If it rises, it won't be anything drastic. And it's mostly water, so don't freak.

From there, you can start venturing back into deficit territory. I'd start at 1700.

While ramping calories up, I'd nix the intense cardio. Just do some incline walking or light jogging. Once you start dieting again, you can add "regular" cardio sessions in as needed.

And as far as strength training goes... do you have any experience whatsoever?

lemurcat12

It's basic math, but without guidance, so too many people get 1200 without understanding why.

MFP says "are you sedentary? you are if you aren't active on your job." So every desk worker says "sedentary," even if they run around after 4 kids or live in a city and walk everywhere.

MFP says "how much do you want to lose, 0 to 2 lbs?" Unsurprisingly, the vast majority of dieters say "2 lbs!"

MFP then says "how much do you plan to exercise?" which lots of people think means the exercise is included in the calorie goal (although it's not).

And then MFP takes your estimated maintenance when sedentary and subtracts your 1000 calories from it to give you a calorie goal.

According to M-SJ (the calculator MFP uses), if you are a 35 y-o sedentary 5'5 woman (slightly above average height), your maintenance at 250 lbs is about 2200, so this is why so many female users get 1200 or close to it. It would be nice if it were explained a bit better.