Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
Replies
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I loseBecause if OP is already frustrated at 2 months in on a cut, he is gonna be even more doing option 2.
Option 2 is a body recomp, and it takes a long time....think 10 - 12 months.
So again, please stop
Go back to the other thread where you started suggesting this and keep posting there, don't junk up this one
Seriously! I mentioned body recomp as one of the first responses to this thread and the OP said he didn't want to do that. My conclusion: cut a bit more, then bulk. Why do we keep banging our heads here?!
Recomp. That's what I want. Can I do that at 15%?
Yes, you can. Just know that it's like watching grass grow. Very, very slow progress. And you have to be super strict with your calories.
Like losing weight isn't? Every week I lift. Do the numbers go up? Barely. Then a wall. No progress. Zero. Oh, so at least I'm dropping a million pounds right? Nope. .75lbs. 1lb. .5lbs. 0lbs. Gain 1lb. Lose 1lb.
I hear that. Honestly, if those are what your numbers look like, you're probably eating very close to your maintenance right now. Are you tracking your measurements as well?
I lose relatively consistently but I just feel like all the braggers making way more progress strength wise aren't sharing some secret.
Hahaha...okay, I gotcha. Honestly, after my bulk last winter, I lost some strength relatively quickly and it took a decent amount of recomp time (I never actually cut after my bulk) to get back to where I was then. Just keep lifting.0 -
And what do you mean by braggers???
I have been lifting for almost 20 years myself.....0 -
I loseBecause if OP is already frustrated at 2 months in on a cut, he is gonna be even more doing option 2.
Option 2 is a body recomp, and it takes a long time....think 10 - 12 months.
So again, please stop
Go back to the other thread where you started suggesting this and keep posting there, don't junk up this one
Seriously! I mentioned body recomp as one of the first responses to this thread and the OP said he didn't want to do that. My conclusion: cut a bit more, then bulk. Why do we keep banging our heads here?!
Recomp. That's what I want. Can I do that at 15%?
Yes, you can. Just know that it's like watching grass grow. Very, very slow progress. And you have to be super strict with your calories.
Like losing weight isn't? Every week I lift. Do the numbers go up? Barely. Then a wall. No progress. Zero. Oh, so at least I'm dropping a million pounds right? Nope. .75lbs. 1lb. .5lbs. 0lbs. Gain 1lb. Lose 1lb.
I hear that. Honestly, if those are what your numbers look like, you're probably eating very close to your maintenance right now. Are you tracking your measurements as well?
I lose relatively consistently but I just feel like all the braggers making way more progress strength wise aren't sharing some secret.
It's not all sunshine and rainbows... People just tend to highlight only the "good" on social media and the like. I post up my training logs and it isn't always pretty...0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I loseBecause if OP is already frustrated at 2 months in on a cut, he is gonna be even more doing option 2.
Option 2 is a body recomp, and it takes a long time....think 10 - 12 months.
So again, please stop
Go back to the other thread where you started suggesting this and keep posting there, don't junk up this one
Seriously! I mentioned body recomp as one of the first responses to this thread and the OP said he didn't want to do that. My conclusion: cut a bit more, then bulk. Why do we keep banging our heads here?!
Recomp. That's what I want. Can I do that at 15%?
Yes, you can. Just know that it's like watching grass grow. Very, very slow progress. And you have to be super strict with your calories.
Like losing weight isn't? Every week I lift. Do the numbers go up? Barely. Then a wall. No progress. Zero. Oh, so at least I'm dropping a million pounds right? Nope. .75lbs. 1lb. .5lbs. 0lbs. Gain 1lb. Lose 1lb.
I hear that. Honestly, if those are what your numbers look like, you're probably eating very close to your maintenance right now. Are you tracking your measurements as well?
I lose relatively consistently but I just feel like all the braggers making way more progress strength wise aren't sharing some secret.
It's not all sunshine and rainbows... People just tend to highlight only the "good" on social media and the like. I post up my training logs and it isn't always pretty...
I only talk about the good....0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I loseBecause if OP is already frustrated at 2 months in on a cut, he is gonna be even more doing option 2.
Option 2 is a body recomp, and it takes a long time....think 10 - 12 months.
So again, please stop
Go back to the other thread where you started suggesting this and keep posting there, don't junk up this one
Seriously! I mentioned body recomp as one of the first responses to this thread and the OP said he didn't want to do that. My conclusion: cut a bit more, then bulk. Why do we keep banging our heads here?!
Recomp. That's what I want. Can I do that at 15%?
Yes, you can. Just know that it's like watching grass grow. Very, very slow progress. And you have to be super strict with your calories.
Like losing weight isn't? Every week I lift. Do the numbers go up? Barely. Then a wall. No progress. Zero. Oh, so at least I'm dropping a million pounds right? Nope. .75lbs. 1lb. .5lbs. 0lbs. Gain 1lb. Lose 1lb.
I hear that. Honestly, if those are what your numbers look like, you're probably eating very close to your maintenance right now. Are you tracking your measurements as well?
I lose relatively consistently but I just feel like all the braggers making way more progress strength wise aren't sharing some secret.
It's not all sunshine and rainbows... People just tend to highlight only the "good" on social media and the like. I post up my training logs and it isn't always pretty...
I only talk about the good....
lies0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »I loseBecause if OP is already frustrated at 2 months in on a cut, he is gonna be even more doing option 2.
Option 2 is a body recomp, and it takes a long time....think 10 - 12 months.
So again, please stop
Go back to the other thread where you started suggesting this and keep posting there, don't junk up this one
Seriously! I mentioned body recomp as one of the first responses to this thread and the OP said he didn't want to do that. My conclusion: cut a bit more, then bulk. Why do we keep banging our heads here?!
Recomp. That's what I want. Can I do that at 15%?
Yes, you can. Just know that it's like watching grass grow. Very, very slow progress. And you have to be super strict with your calories.
Like losing weight isn't? Every week I lift. Do the numbers go up? Barely. Then a wall. No progress. Zero. Oh, so at least I'm dropping a million pounds right? Nope. .75lbs. 1lb. .5lbs. 0lbs. Gain 1lb. Lose 1lb.
I hear that. Honestly, if those are what your numbers look like, you're probably eating very close to your maintenance right now. Are you tracking your measurements as well?
I lose relatively consistently but I just feel like all the braggers making way more progress strength wise aren't sharing some secret.
It's not all sunshine and rainbows... People just tend to highlight only the "good" on social media and the like. I post up my training logs and it isn't always pretty...
I only talk about the good....
lies
Except in my blog where I b*tch about the bad....0 -
Does anyone else think it's a little strange that the OP has only been cutting for 2 months and is already hitting a wall?
OP, what's your intake on your cut? What were you doing before cutting?
Let me clarify - I apologize I'm commenting as I read. I am discouraged not by my cut but by how small my arms ALREADY are. In an ideal world my arms would grow and grow on a bulk. But so would my stomach. I want to be lean. But I also want big arms. I can't have both right now. Which is why I was discouraged looking at certain body parts, feeling already small. And wondering why cut when I'm already holding small arms. That's what I meant.
Actually cutting is easy for me. I don't like to eat that much ( struggled on my last bulk) and even though I'm not super lean now, I read you don't even notice a difference between 16-13%. If that's true. Also I'm 6'2 so 5 lbs is nothing on me0 -
Does anyone else think it's a little strange that the OP has only been cutting for 2 months and is already hitting a wall?
OP, what's your intake on your cut? What were you doing before cutting?
Let me clarify - I apologize I'm commenting as I read. I am discouraged not by my cut but by how small my arms ALREADY are. In an ideal world my arms would grow and grow on a bulk. But so would my stomach. I want to be lean. But I also want big arms. I can't have both right now. Which is why I was discouraged looking at certain body parts, feeling already small. And wondering why cut when I'm already holding small arms. That's what I meant.
Actually cutting is easy for me. I don't like to eat that much ( struggled on my last bulk) and even though I'm not super lean now, I read you don't even notice a difference between 16-13%. If that's true. Also I'm 6'2 so 5 lbs is nothing on me
You don't have much fat on your arms at all, so if you maintain a deficit and lift, I'm pretty certain your arms aren't going to get smaller.0 -
I am discouraged not by my cut but by how small my arms ALREADY are....I can't have both right now. Which is why I was discouraged looking at certain body parts, feeling already small. And wondering why cut when I'm already holding small arms....
I encourage you to work through this mentality. I can't really tell you how, other than being honest about what I do to defeat this mentality which is, simply being honest with myself!! When I'm on a cut and my lack of muscle "surprises" me, I just face the fact that that part of my body lacks muscle mass.
You're muscle mass is not were you want it to be, granted, but don't disregard your need to cut in order to bulk your arms. It's my opinion that your aesthetic goals will come to a better outcome if you continue to cut...
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OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?0
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LolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?0 -
Does anyone else think it's a little strange that the OP has only been cutting for 2 months and is already hitting a wall?
OP, what's your intake on your cut? What were you doing before cutting?
Let me clarify - I apologize I'm commenting as I read. I am discouraged not by my cut but by how small my arms ALREADY are. In an ideal world my arms would grow and grow on a bulk. But so would my stomach. I want to be lean. But I also want big arms. I can't have both right now. Which is why I was discouraged looking at certain body parts, feeling already small. And wondering why cut when I'm already holding small arms. That's what I meant.
Actually cutting is easy for me. I don't like to eat that much ( struggled on my last bulk) and even though I'm not super lean now, I read you don't even notice a difference between 16-13%. If that's true. Also I'm 6'2 so 5 lbs is nothing on me
I think one of the most important things I learned doing my first cut was that I was not as big as I thought I was. When you are super lean is the time to inventory what areas lag the most. Seeing that is the fuel to push those workouts.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?
That and I also feel like I'm not at my full mass building potential yet - possibly even past my noob gains. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only bench 165 5x5 which doesnt Seem like a lot0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?
That and I also feel like I'm not at my full mass building potential yet - possibly even past my noob gains. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only bench 165 5x5 which doesnt Seem like a lot
You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?0 -
rLolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?
That and I also feel like I'm not at my full mass building potential yet - possibly even past my noob gains. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only bench 165 5x5 which doesnt Seem like a lot
You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
Well that's what I plan on when I begin to bulk again, ideally. The past 6-8 months I have been doing full body 3x week. I feel like I need to go that route to max out noob gains?
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rLolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?
That and I also feel like I'm not at my full mass building potential yet - possibly even past my noob gains. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only bench 165 5x5 which doesnt Seem like a lot
You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
Well that's what I plan on when I begin to bulk again, ideally. The past 6-8 months I have been doing full body 3x week. I feel like I need to go that route to max out noob gains?
Full body 3x week isn't necessarily the best. There's not much recovery time and unless you are spending two hours in the gym each time I don't see how you give adequate attention to each group.
I did something very similar to PHAT immediately after my first cut and between my first and second competition. I felt like it was the best of the strength and hypertrophy worlds, plus I made some great gains while staying lean. I was still undertrained at that point, meaning recomposition or noob gains was easier.
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LolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?
I totally understand, and did it for a very long time myself. It's fine to look at others for motivation, but it's toxic to hold yourself to the same standards as them. The sooner you come to this realization and accept it, the healthier mindset you'll have.
You have a base, you're just unhappy with what you see because you're comparing yourself against people that you are not.0 -
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^This. Have you been losing size on your arms on your cut? If so, how much? How much size did you gain when you bulked?Does anyone else think it's a little strange that the OP has only been cutting for 2 months and is already hitting a wall?
OP, what's your intake on your cut? What were you doing before cutting?
Let me clarify - I apologize I'm commenting as I read. I am discouraged not by my cut but by how small my arms ALREADY are. In an ideal world my arms would grow and grow on a bulk. But so would my stomach. I want to be lean. But I also want big arms. I can't have both right now. Which is why I was discouraged looking at certain body parts, feeling already small. And wondering why cut when I'm already holding small arms. That's what I meant.
Actually cutting is easy for me. I don't like to eat that much ( struggled on my last bulk) and even though I'm not super lean now, I read you don't even notice a difference between 16-13%. If that's true. Also I'm 6'2 so 5 lbs is nothing on me
You don't have much fat on your arms at all, so if you maintain a deficit and lift, I'm pretty certain your arms aren't going to get smaller.
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rLolBroScience wrote: »OP, do you find yourself comparing your physique against others often?
Haha yeah I do. It's also mostly a frustration out of the last 3 years. I have the problem of being paralyzed by too much information and trying to do everything "right" to the point I go no where. Honestly I would have made more progress by now if I had just gone to the gym without worrying about anything and just done it, I feel....
I understand this is a long journey-- a life journey. I understand that I can only gain reasonably 1-2 lbs of muscle every month or so if that. I just have lost sight of my actual appearance and wanted suggestions on where to take my next steps.
I just want to have a good base to bulk from, and bulk the right way this time. Before I wasn't really eating enough or pushing hard enough so I got sub par results. I didn't really get "fatter". I always had the fat there. so the weight I did gain was hopefully mostly lbm. It was a slow process but at least I didn't get high fat gains.
I was just wondering if you all could tel what kind of lbm I'm currently holding, and if you thought added lbm would displace my current fat. I don't want to be puffy like I felt before. I see so many guys "bulking@ and get "fluffier" yet still have good relative definition for the most part.
I never see myself being sub -10% bf. Ideally I'd like to be 12%: however, if I'm gonna bulk after, maybe I should go to 10%.
Without means of measuring, how will I know where I am?
That and I also feel like I'm not at my full mass building potential yet - possibly even past my noob gains. Maybe I'm wrong. But I can only bench 165 5x5 which doesnt Seem like a lot
You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
Well that's what I plan on when I begin to bulk again, ideally. The past 6-8 months I have been doing full body 3x week. I feel like I need to go that route to max out noob gains?
Full body 3x week isn't necessarily the best. There's not much recovery time and unless you are spending two hours in the gym each time I don't see how you give adequate attention to each group.
I did something very similar to PHAT immediately after my first cut and between my first and second competition. I felt like it was the best of the strength and hypertrophy worlds, plus I made some great gains while staying lean. I was still undertrained at that point, meaning recomposition or noob gains was easier.
Weight difference?^^^^
April 27th I was 148 pounds
October 5th I was 155 pounds
I don't remember the body fat, but I was leaner in October. Noob gains plus post cut hormone rebounding.0 -
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Go on a slight surplus and just up your cardio (fasted morning). Winter is for bulking...you can do it clean...slower...but you can stay lean if you work the cardio sessions...0
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Go on a slight surplus and just up your cardio (fasted morning). Winter is for bulking...you can do it clean...slower...but you can stay lean if you work the cardio sessions...
No. Increase calories, but increase your TDEE too by adding cardio? That doesn't make any sense.
Also, the idea that you "burn more fat" doing fasted cardio is far off. You aren't tricking the body. It doesn't matter how much fat versus glycogen is burned in any given moment. It's the total energy balance that matters.0 -
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I'm not sure I understand the question. Are you asking is it easier for me to lose weight than it is for another person to lose weight?
Ah, better wording:
Is it harder to go from say 15% body fat to 10% vs going from 25% body fat to 15%? And why? And what does one need to do differently?
I ask because people are always saying it takes so much commitment to get to a lower body fat. They never say what is so different about it vs just losing fat in general.
I can answer this one.
The main difference is the total calorie intake required to get to those lower BF%'s. As you get smaller, TDEE decreases (because of mass lost and adaptive thermogenesis)
Going from about 30% to 15% for me was definitely not "easy" as I was very strict with hitting my numbers and getting in regular exercise. I went from 95kg to 70kg over 9 months.
Going from 12% to 6% was actually "relatively" easy for me. Flexible dieting used for the majority (some CKD done in the last few weeks). My average calorie intake got down to a low of 2100. I went from 86kg to 77kg over 6 months.
Also, I basically maintained my strength over that second cut to 6%. But as soon as I upped my cals, strength started to increase.
OP: If you do cut further, remember that it for "aesthetics" it isn't always about size but the illusion of size e.g. the leaner you get the more definition you see so even though your arms are "only" 14" flexed they appear bigger. FWIW, I also have 14" flexed biceps.
#babyguns
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My arms right now are 14 and 1/8"0
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Go on a slight surplus and just up your cardio (fasted morning). Winter is for bulking...you can do it clean...slower...but you can stay lean if you work the cardio sessions...
No. Increase calories, but increase your TDEE too by adding cardio? That doesn't make any sense.
Also, the idea that you "burn more fat" doing fasted cardio is far off. You aren't tricking the body. It doesn't matter how much fat versus glycogen is burned in any given moment. It's the total energy balance that matters.
I do IF and all my workouts fasted. And I agree. Overall calories is where u need to focus.
Only do fasted workouts if u like it.0 -
It's funny how things have changed so much in my life time. I remember growing up in the 70's and 6'2" 188 would have been envied by most other guys. I think no matter what you do from here you are fine. Oh, and stay away from my daughters.
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