Getting discouraged. Lean bulk or cut? What should I do?
Replies
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Thank you all for your feedback. I will continue to cut, and hopefully reach a low enough bf that I can comfortably begin to bulk soon0
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Just continue to lift heavy, keep calories where they need to be for a gradual cut....don't do anything to drastic....like very low calories.....
This will help you keep as much LBM as possible.....
Be patient and I think in the end you will be glad with your results.
Good Luck.0 -
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You can do any routine you want.
The reason people recommend "lift heavy, do SL 5x5" is because people are usually new to weight lifting....so something like SL 5x5 is basic, and easy to pick up and work your way into the gym/weight lifting environment.....
Something like PHAT may be a bit intense if you are new....
So I would say do something basic like SL 5x5 for like 3 - 4 months.....
Then you can switch up your routine to a more focused workout program0 -
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.0 -
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So when I'm gone losing and can eat for size? Everyone says you can't get bigger on a deficit.
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.
You should be strength training while in a deficit to help preserve LBM. You can also still make strength gains while in a deficit.0 -
So when I'm gone losing and can eat for size? Everyone says you can't get bigger on a deficit.
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.
How long have you been lifting? You may not gain much, but it is possible to gain some lean mass on a deficit. If you have plateaued on a strength program there's nothing wrong with switching to a hypertrophy one. I posted pictures of a recomposition I did in a few months a page or two ago eating at just under TDEE and following a similar program to PHAT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/215585710 -
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The advice you've been given so far is obviously great. I would like to add, don't over think it. Right now focus on the weight training and losing weight. Later on worry about bulking. Don't drive yourself mad.
So when I'm gone losing and can eat for size? Everyone says you can't get bigger on a deficit.
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.
+1, it's never a good idea to have too many goals at once. Concentrate on two, or at most three, that can go together naturally. Phases towards your end goal are the way to make it lest you start spining your wheels trying to do too many things at once.0 -
Aside from gaining strength rapidly on a 5x5, another consideration is that newer trainees simply don't require as much volume as an advanced trainee in order to grow. Full body programs can be an excellent choice if you don't require high volumes.0
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So when I'm gone losing and can eat for size? Everyone says you can't get bigger on a deficit.
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.
You're going to have to make a set of priorities and make a plan based on that. You want size, strength or leaness? Priortizing those will dictate your programing.0 -
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it's winter time. bulk. get strong. get big. and prepare for a massive cut in April or whenever you think you'll need to get started to be ready for the beach.0
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So when I'm gone losing and can eat for size? Everyone says you can't get bigger on a deficit.
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.
How long have you been lifting? You may not gain much, but it is possible to gain some lean mass on a deficit. If you have plateaued on a strength program there's nothing wrong with switching to a hypertrophy one. I posted pictures of a recomposition I did in a few months a page or two ago eating at just under TDEE and following a similar program to PHAT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Nice study
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So when I'm gone losing and can eat for size? Everyone says you can't get bigger on a deficit.
At what point is it a good idea to switch? Should someone do it while they're still losing weight? The only advice I ever get is "lift heavy, do 5x5, you can't gain muscle losing weight" basically. I guess I have to pay the penalty for being fat in the first place but you can only increase the weight every week for so long before you just can't add anymore. It just seems like a waste of time to constantly stop at the same point then back off. Work back up. Stop at the same point. Back off.You follow a strength program then? Why not a hypertrophy or a typical bodybuilding program like PHAT?
1. You have to have some strength to build size.
2. Hypertrophy programs are generally pretty high volume, strength programs are not.
Once you have a good foundation of the lifts and you have added volume into the workouts then switching to a hypertrophy program is a good idea.
I personally like PHAT because it has 2 days of strength focused lifting and 3 days of hypertrophy focused lifting. It is a lot of volume though.
How long have you been lifting? You may not gain much, but it is possible to gain some lean mass on a deficit. If you have plateaued on a strength program there's nothing wrong with switching to a hypertrophy one. I posted pictures of a recomposition I did in a few months a page or two ago eating at just under TDEE and following a similar program to PHAT.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
Nice study
I've read the actual one instead of the abstract. The subjects were athletes including swimmers, hockey, baseball, gymnastics and a variety of others. They were definitely active athletes. I'm sure switching them out for competitive bodybuilders would give different results because the athletes in the study would have been comparatively under trained.0 -
Seeing gymnasts and swimmers in the field of subjects tested is nice though....
Because I would think they have some decent muscle packed on their body0 -
Yeah, I guess I'll revisit the issue down the road. It seems like a lot of the advice seems geared toward people who are already much smaller than I am or people who can eat to grow. I just wish there were better advice for people coming down from a higher weight. You see all the hype advice like "do Stronglifts, you'll squat 400lbs." OK, well why can't I then? I did the same program. Why do I get weaker every week? Why does my bench max out at 185? No one ever explains stuff like this.
Everyone will progress differently, and some are stronger in some areas and weaker than others....
My bench is maxed around 255, and I honestly don't do flat bench any more.
I have been doing incline bench, and DBs more here lately.
I do flat bench my hypertrophy days, and do like 135lbs or so.
But doing heavy day, DB bench press, I got 120 lbs for 5 reps (4 and 5 had assistance)
My legs are weak, so my squat sucks...
If you are getting "weaker"...perhaps you need to rest?
Are you giving yourself enough time to rest the muscle group?
Are you sleeping at night?
How does you diet look? Getting adequate carbs?
Sometimes changing up how you lift on a particular exercise will help you progress again....
Go heavier (with a spotter).
I had a workout partner one time do a session with me.....he is/was a retired SEAL.
We did negatives.....
Started at 185, I would hold the weight as long as I could...then would drop it....he would lift it up, then I hold again....did that for like 5 reps.
Rested.
Went to 205, same thing again.
Rested
225, same thing again....
That workout killed my chest....but it changed up things for me, and definitely helped.
Sometimes just going up in weight...not being able to actually do it for a rep.....but just feeling the actual weight/load can help....build that mind/muscle connection.
When I really started focusing on my back and pull ups...
I started at like BW + 45 lbs and went up....
I got to 90 lbs + Body weight....and got stuck....
So next time I went in, I did 100 lbs + BW, sucked, I think I got 1 rep.
But went back down to 90 lbs + BW and was able to do it for 4 - 5 reps.
Just some thoughts
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Yeah, I guess I'll revisit the issue down the road. It seems like a lot of the advice seems geared toward people who are already much smaller than I am or people who can eat to grow. I just wish there were better advice for people coming down from a higher weight. You see all the hype advice like "do Stronglifts, you'll squat 400lbs." OK, well why can't I then? I did the same program. Why do I get weaker every week? Why does my bench max out at 185? No one ever explains stuff like this.
I can only add that when I was bulking my lifts went up pretty much every week. During my cut, however, I stalled out and had to deload like crazy. I'm bulking again and lifts are going back up. More calories = more fuel. Cutting took a toll on my lifts and energy all around. Hopefully someone with some actual facts will chime in.
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What are you cutting to? Little muscle mass, bones, and organs. Eat at a slight caloric surplus with adequate protein and make ACTUAL strength and hypertrophy gains. Don't listen to the "recomp" advice. It's a surefire way to spin your wheels. Once you've made sizable gains, you'll actually have something to cut down to. I've been in your shoes. Trust me.0
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It's hard to serve to masters at the same time, so you kind of have to choose what you want to do. One one hand, it's winter time and even here in Vegas it's too cold to swim so it's a good time to work on bulking. You can try eating 500 calories above maintenance on training days and eat at maintenance or slightly below maintenance on non-training days to help manage body-fat. Train high-volume through like March 31st and then start working on a cut again.0
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What are you cutting to? Little muscle mass, bones, and organs. Eat at a slight caloric surplus with adequate protein and make ACTUAL strength and hypertrophy gains. Don't listen to the "recomp" advice. It's a surefire way to spin your wheels. Once you've made sizable gains, you'll actually have something to cut down to. I've been in your shoes. Trust me.
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What are you cutting to? Little muscle mass, bones, and organs. Eat at a slight caloric surplus with adequate protein and make ACTUAL strength and hypertrophy gains. Don't listen to the "recomp" advice. It's a surefire way to spin your wheels. Once you've made sizable gains, you'll actually have something to cut down to. I've been in your shoes. Trust me.
OP already said he's finishing cut and will transition into a lean controlled bulk.
Also, what does the bolded section even mean?
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LolBroScience wrote: »
Also, what does the bolded section even mean?
It don't matter, it's all about dem gainzzz brah!!!!
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And not one ounce of proof was seen on this day.
Oh jeez...pics of my rear to be taken when I get home from work.0 -
In for pics!0
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