General Weight Loss Advice Beyond Calories In and Calories Out
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The amount of judgment and condescension on these forums continually astounds me.0
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Who wants to knit? Calories in and calories out... Eat what you want and move however you want to. If you are like me, eat less and move more! Again and this is the gosel... Calories in and Calories out (daily basis) is how you either maintain or lose weight. Want to tone, add some muscle, lose weight faster? Exercise added to Calories in Calories out = weight loss. PERIOD! forget knitting...
You missed the whole point. You don't have to knit. If mindless snacking at night or during down time is not an issue for you, then this tip is not for you. But some people, at least initially, have trouble breaking this cycle. So what's wrong with offering hints on how to avoid this. If not knitting or sewing, maybe something else
I did not miss the point... you missed my point.. you don't have to knit to move. I am always... always thinking about food! You have to move and however, when ever, what ever you want too.. You went on and on about the reward you get in the end from knitting.. I get more from other things and other activities.. and yes I am thinking about food right now... I have just chosen to not go to the fridge.. This is not rocket science.
I don't knit. I was just responding to you. I did not make the original post about knitting. I read instead.
The idea of knitting is not to move. It is to help break the cycle of eating during down time. A number of people knit/crochet to overcome anxiety, etc.
I still think you are missing the point. And I see nothing wrong with suggestions like this. If it doesn't apply tou, so be it.
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I am getting off this forum and there is absolutely no judgement from me! I used be 90 lbs once ago... I was the anti gain weight! Now I am older and yes I have gained! There is soooooooo much that goes into play regarding weight gain, weight loss and maintaining! I am going to be honest I am 15 lbs more than I want. I have been dieting and exercising since Sept 30, 2014. I gained 4 lbs trying to loose. Guess what, I was over eating. As bad as I hate to say it... I was over eating and was not moving very much.. I am not over weight or obese (according to America) but I am older and my body does not want me to lose weight. I am having to force it off by calories in and calories out! Exercise sucks! I hate and I will always hate it.. I am still struggling.. I just had a conversation with my husband and told him not to bring anything in this house to eat! I am with the rest of you out there no matter how many pounds you want or need to lose... every single person has a struggle and most of it their relationship to food! I have it.. I have to do this, calories in and calories out. Eat what you want to, when you want to... Just do not over eat. CICO is the only response your body has to go on!0
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Some people.Who wants to knit? Calories in and calories out... Eat what you want and move however you want to. If you are like me, eat less and move more! Again and this is the gosel... Calories in and Calories out (daily basis) is how you either maintain or lose weight. Want to tone, add some muscle, lose weight faster? Exercise added to Calories in Calories out = weight loss. PERIOD! forget knitting...
Some people want to knit.
Some people want to share helpful advice and read ideas from others who offer it. Maybe knitting will work for them, maybe it won't. It's one idea that might be helpful.
Calling people names is not helpful.
Bragging that you're smart enough to understand a very basic principle and implying that others aren't up to that simple task - also not helpful.
Insulting other people's suggestions - not helpful.
If your goal is to dump on someone else's ideas, congrats. Mission accomplished.
If your goal is to help anyone, you did not accomplish your mission. Dumping on her idea that knitting might help break the habit of mindless snacking - that won't benefit anyone.
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Helen71017 wrote: »The vast majority of people who try to diet are unfortunately unable to develop a sustainable weight loss plan. Current estimates are that 2/3 of Americans are obese or overweight. I doubt that most of these people prefer to be heavy, so one has to assume that weight loss is challenging.
I don't know about this. People seem able to lose weight pretty easily for the most part, the trick is keeping it off. And that people have trouble with that--or are so often overweight or obese--doesn't mean that the strategy is the problem, so much as making the sacrifices that the strategies require.
I know from my own experience that the issue is less finding a pleasant and sustainable way of eating that would allow me to lose or (even easier) maintain weight than actually doing it always despite whatever else happens in my life or my own inability from time to time to care. That's the really hard part, IMO. I don't think most fat people are too dumb to know how to eat fewer calories; I think they decide (consciously or not) that other things are more important to them. At least that was my issue.
As for losing weight and creating a sustainable way of eating, though, I think your advice is good and have done a number of similar things myself.
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Helen,
Thank you for posting this!
It's great these things worked for you, but these things might not necessarily work for everyone. When it comes down to it, calories in/calories out is the one golden rule for anything to do with weight.- Eat more than you burn and you will gain weight
- Eat less than you burn and you will lose weight
- Eat the same amount and you burn and you will maintain weight.
That said, please see my comments to the things that would not work for me:Helen71017 wrote: »3. Vegetables and fruit – I don’t need to eat as much of a high calorie main course if half my plate is filled with vegetables. Salads with low calorie dressings like balsamic vinaigrette are great easy side items. This is food choice and has nothing to do with weight loss. I personally do not feel more full loading my plate with vegetables. I feel more full with a bit more meat (chicken, fish, turkey) on my plate.
4. Planned filling snacks – I generally stick to 200 to 400 calorie meals with 100-300 calories snacks between meals. Again I did some Google searches for ideas and personally I like pistachios, tangerines, quest chips, raspberries, Greek yogurt, carrots, fruit and quest bars. Again, personal preference. I love variety and may even eat a cookie for a snack and it will keep me full.
9. Avoid high calorie drinks. A tablespoon of hot chocolate in my morning coffee is an excellent treat, only 42 calories (including the coffee), and it does not involve fake sugar. Nope. If it fits in your calorie goals, go for it. I don't drink sugar sodas because since I was a kid I've never like them. True story. However, if I did like them, there would be no reason to not work them into my calorie goals.
12. Remember that your metabolism may slow down with prolonged dieting. I had to increase my total calories gradually after I reached my goal weight until my metabolism recovered. As you get smaller, your calorie needs lessen, but exercise helps your metabolism. If you eat very low calories for a prolonged period of time, then a person may have metabolic damage, such as anorexics.
14. Don’t keep problem foods in the house. When I eat ice cream, I buy one single serve container from the grocery store and plan for it in my daily calories. Yep, I used to believe this one too and could not keep anything in the house. Well, guess what? I now have ice cream in the freezer, chocolate chip cookies, chips, and a variety of nuts and trail mix in the cabinet, and I'm doing just fine. It's not about the food being in the house, but about controlling my hands when they want to reach for the food. I am happy to say that I no longer just reach for food but portion out what I'm going to eat and put it back into the cabinet (or freezer, or fridge). A food is only a problem if it's a problem for you (you in a general sense, not personally), and if it is a problem for you it may be best to not keep it around until the moderation tool is learned. However, I am proof that moderation is the best choice for me.0 -
Helen71017 wrote: »I see lots of posts debating the calories in versus calories out concept. Although it is an important fundamental principle for weight loss, it is also a gross oversimplification of the challenges one faces to achieve lasting weight loss. I am 5’4” and have maintained my current weight of 112-114 for about eight months after losing 15 pounds.
I have found a number of things that made this process easier:
1. Accurate calorie logging – weigh and measure everything (there are various posts that explain this further).
2. Foods that keep you full – I searched various websites for suggestions on healthy low calorie, high protein food suggestions.
3. Vegetables and fruit – I don’t need to eat as much of a high calorie main course if half my plate is filled with vegetables. Salads with low calorie dressings like balsamic vinaigrette are great easy side items.
4. Planned filling snacks – I generally stick to 200 to 400 calorie meals with 100-300 calories snacks between meals. Again I did some Google searches for ideas and personally I like pistachios, tangerines, quest chips, raspberries, Greek yogurt, carrots, fruit and quest bars.
5. Don’t go hungry. A high protein diet with fruit and vegetables generally keeps me full. But I sometimes increased my daily goal to 1500 or even 1700 (maintenance for me) as a break. I don’t like cheat days because it is easy to blow an entire week’s worth of work. It hurts sometimes, but I log all my “bad days”
6. Regular exercise helps. I have become a little addicted to exercise, but I was only working out three or four days a week when I was actively losing weight. When I work out too much (like I do sometimes now), controlling my diet is harder because I am hungrier. The only time that I watch television is at the gym, so I look forward to going.
7. Make goals and don’t use food as a reward. Personally I preferred shoes (because they still fit after I stopped losing weight).
8. Find a good support group. MFP is an excellent resource for this.
9. Avoid high calorie drinks. A tablespoon of hot chocolate in my morning coffee is an excellent treat, only 42 calories (including the coffee), and it does not involve fake sugar.
10. Learn to cook, cook in bulk and freeze meals for easy reheating. Calorie counting is hard with restaurants because very few of them publish nutritional data
11. Plan! I make a general plan for my weekly meals and snacks. Then each morning I make a plan for the day, which I modify throughout the day to reflect my actual intake.
12. Remember that your metabolism may slow down with prolonged dieting. I had to increase my total calories gradually after I reached my goal weight until my metabolism recovered.
13. Daily weight fluctuations are mostly due to salt intake. Weekly changes mean more, and it is best to weigh at the same time of the day with minimal confounding factors (i.e. clothing).
14. Don’t keep problem foods in the house. When I eat ice cream, I buy one single serve container from the grocery store and plan for it in my daily calories.
15. Eat slowly. It takes your body time to register that it has eaten enough. I like food that takes extra time to eat like salads, pistachios, crab legs and tangerines.
If you need additional assistance consider asking your doctor for a referral to a nutritionist.
I couldn't agree more!! Great tips and so kind of you to share. Congratulations on your fitness journey!0 -
Don't diet. Don't become fearful of food.
Create a specific calorie deficit plan and be CONSISTENT. That's going to be half the battle.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Yep.0 -
Eating too much and alcoholism are not even on the same spectrum. Bad comparison.Helen71017 wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »OP, it's good to hear that you've worked out something that you personally find sustainable in maintaining your ideal weight goals. However, CICO is not a gross oversimplification as you claim, because understanding and determining your personal calorie intake is the only thing that will make a difference in whatever challenge(s) you may face. Also, low-calorie, high-protein foods may be useful for some, but different people have differing macros. And things like "don't keep problem foods in the house" is not the best advice to give people who need to build healthy relationships with food. Anyhow, way to go for maintaining your weight thus far!
You are absolutely right that different systems are effective for different individuals. I had hoped to start this conversation so that other people in the MFP community could provide general advice for people who need additional help in their weight loss efforts.
One does not take an alcoholic and tell them that all they need to do is not drink alcohol. The failure rate for treatment would be abysmal. Useful financial advice must go beyond: save more than you spend. Calories in less than calories out, although simple in theory, is plagued by challenges in its execution.
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I don't see anything here that is indicates that CICO is an oversimplification. The OP basically says you need a calorie deficit to lose weight, here are some ideas of things you can do to help keep you in a calorie deficit.
But none of suggestions indicate that there is more to weight loss than CICO. Mostly it seems to be trying to overcomplicate things by confusing the science of weight loss (CICO) with the behavioral aspects (adherence to changes). Both are important for someone looking to lose weight, but many of the tips are largely subjective to the OP. I feel like many of the tips could be eliminated and replaced by tips guiding readers to examine their own lifestyle and habits to see where they might be able to allocate calories optimally or adjust meal timing to fit more efficiently in their day.0 -
I don't understand why the OP is getting so much hostility. She isn't advocating some kind of quack "magic foods" myth or arguing against CICO. She's saying that just parroting "Calories in, Calories out, end of story!!!" is completely unhelpful to people who are struggling with weight loss. Maintaining a CICO strategy over the period of time required to safely and healthily lose even ten pounds is CHALLENGING. Yes, success will biologically come down to CICO, but these long term disciplines are largely a mental game, not a "just don't do it" game.
I think OP's tips are good ones (largely common sense). However, I don't agree that there's some distinction between a mental game and a "just don't do it" game. I see people asking how to avoid going over their calories, and to be honest I find this kind of difficult to understand. You just don't. You plan what you are going to eat and eat that. Sure, it's easier if what you eat is more filling (that seems kind of obvious, doesn't it?) and takes into account when you tend to feel hungry, but ultimately it IS a don't do it game if you decide to count calories or follow some other strategy.
For example, if your goal is 1600 and you are routinely going over 1600, you need to stop that and eat to your limit. I'm not saying I never go over my limit, but it's always a choice to do so or not. Similarly, if you pick some other strategy, like IF or cutting carbs or doing paleo or whatever, there are other things you just don't do that happen to have the side effect for those for whom they are successful of cutting calories.
What am I missing here?
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Helen71017 wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »OP, it's good to hear that you've worked out something that you personally find sustainable in maintaining your ideal weight goals. However, CICO is not a gross oversimplification as you claim, because understanding and determining your personal calorie intake is the only thing that will make a difference in whatever challenge(s) you may face. Also, low-calorie, high-protein foods may be useful for some, but different people have differing macros. And things like "don't keep problem foods in the house" is not the best advice to give people who need to build healthy relationships with food. Anyhow, way to go for maintaining your weight thus far!
...
One does not take an alcoholic and tell them that all they need to do is not drink alcohol. The failure rate for treatment would be abysmal. Useful financial advice must go beyond: save more than you spend. Calories in less than calories out, although simple in theory, is plagued by challenges in its execution.
Helen, thanks for your original post. I do agree on most points with you and while it might not be the right way for all people it is still helpful.
Re. your comparison to alcohol though, I am afraid it is as simple as that: do not pick up the first glass! I have experience in that matter and it really boils down to "all you need to do is stop drinking alcohol". This is certainly not helping underlying issues but it is the most and ONLY effective step to stop you from being an active alcoholic.
This is where the link is to losing weight: at the end of the day it is "calories in versus calories out". Again, this might not help you necessarily to get fitter and healthier, but you will achieve the goal to lose weight.
For me personally though, there is so much more to health and fitness then losing weight and being slim. I believe in exercise and in eating as healthy as possible. This does not mean I cannot have snacks or special treats occassionally. Also what really helped me in maintenance is to look at my weekly calorie deficit and not my daily. If I over indulged today I make up for it one of the next days. As long as I stay under my weekly calorie goal I am fine. It worked for me so far.
Stef.
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Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.-1 -
Guys, I am one of you. If you want to read this.. It really explains a whole lot..
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/0 -
It is actually good to have an argument every now then! Bashing is NEVER intended. It is harmful and there are more people that are sensitive, angry, mad and have a lot of hatred. EVERY SINGLE TOPIC, COMMENT, REPLY is up to interpretation. I am not an angry person - I am actually planning my steak dinner hoping to stay within my calorie deficit!
Lighten up! The CICO method in the meantime is the measurement to start. And again, I am struggling just like the rest of you. The truth for me hurt like hell! CICO is the first page in the book to follow!0 -
Helen71017 wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »OP, it's good to hear that you've worked out something that you personally find sustainable in maintaining your ideal weight goals. However, CICO is not a gross oversimplification as you claim, because understanding and determining your personal calorie intake is the only thing that will make a difference in whatever challenge(s) you may face. Also, low-calorie, high-protein foods may be useful for some, but different people have differing macros. And things like "don't keep problem foods in the house" is not the best advice to give people who need to build healthy relationships with food. Anyhow, way to go for maintaining your weight thus far!
...
One does not take an alcoholic and tell them that all they need to do is not drink alcohol. The failure rate for treatment would be abysmal. Useful financial advice must go beyond: save more than you spend. Calories in less than calories out, although simple in theory, is plagued by challenges in its execution.
Helen, thanks for your original post. I do agree on most points with you and while it might not be the right way for all people it is still helpful.
Re. your comparison to alcohol though, I am afraid it is as simple as that: do not pick up the first glass! I have experience in that matter and it really boils down to "all you need to do is stop drinking alcohol". This is certainly not helping underlying issues but it is the most and ONLY effective step to stop you from being an active alcoholic.
I agree with this and almost said the same thing.This is where the link is to losing weight: at the end of the day it is "calories in versus calories out". Again, this might not help you necessarily to get fitter and healthier, but you will achieve the goal to lose weight.
For me personally though, there is so much more to health and fitness then losing weight and being slim. I believe in exercise and in eating as healthy as possible. This does not mean I cannot have snacks or special treats occassionally. Also what really helped me in maintenance is to look at my weekly calorie deficit and not my daily. If I over indulged today I make up for it one of the next days. As long as I stay under my weekly calorie goal I am fine. It worked for me so far.
Related to this, I think for a lot of people caring is the issue, and a focus on being healthy and fit--fitness goals and all of that--often go along with caring enough to put up with not being able to just eat whatever for many people. I know for me I naturally eat pretty well and a sensible amount when I'm exercising. When I'm not, it's easy to also stop caring so much about what I eat.
This maybe goes to the points people have made about strategies being somewhat individual.
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Helen71017 wrote: »I see lots of posts debating the calories in versus calories out concept. Although it is an important fundamental principle for weight loss, it is also a gross oversimplification of the challenges one faces to achieve lasting weight loss.
You’ve hit it on the head: Accurate logging; food choices; planned low-calorie snacks; some kind of exercise; No cheat days (personally I do have a “planned” treat meal a few times a month - but that doesn't mean overboard calories); goals; learning to cook with the right ingredients (I tweak high-calorie recipes by with low-calorie ingredients); Plan, plan, plan – once it becomes a habit, you don’t even think of it anymore.
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Does every topic here turn into a DEBATE? I thought this started out as possibly a good discussion but reading the thread seems so negative. It would be nice if people would only use the keyboard when they had something positive to post.0
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I have to side with the OP here. Yes, when it comes to losing weight, the only defining element of it is CICO. However, tips like those the OP are posting can be useful to help people stick to CICO and persevere till the end. More importantly, it can help them to change their lifestyle, which is necessary to a certain extent to maintain.
I really don't understand why a debate has to start whenever someone suggests any tips beyond "just do it". It is absolutely fantastic for you if you were able, from one day to the next, to eat less than you expended. For others, it may not be as easy. There may be multiple reasons for this – they may be used to a certain rhythm or lifestyle they now have to break. They may find dieting and exercising harder than they expected. They may find they get hungry really quickly and aren't sure what to do about it.
At the end of the day, if you want to lose weight, you WILL have to stick to CICO and almost certainly exercise. You WILL have to persevere. It WILL take time.
Does that mean you cannot take advantage of the experiences of others in order to stay within your calorie limit and succeed? Of course not! That is why there are websites like My Fitness Pal, that contain forums, so people can share their experiences and learn from each other.
It's not about debating CICO; it's about giving tips that could be helpful if you are having trouble staying within your calorie goals.
So, I am going to throw here a couple of other tips:
- You don't have to give up your favourite food or meal. You just have to fit it within your daily goal. Try an alternative recipe, or learn to make it yourself if it was a processed or pre-made food.
- Find a type of exercise you enjoy. There is nothing worse than putting yourself through an exercise routine you hate.
- DO consider your macros. Even if you are in it just to look good, it will be helpful on the long run.0 -
Debate is healthy, Lets you see both sides.. You can figure out the rest yourself.0
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Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSdVO7FKh7Q
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