General Weight Loss Advice Beyond Calories In and Calories Out
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Offend, hurt, whatever.GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Most people apologize when they find out they've hurt someone they didn't intend to hurt. It's usually followed with an explanation or with "It was wrong of me. You didn't deserve that."GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
Most people are not going about their lives trying to hurt others and really ARE sorry when they do.
Oh yes, I understand that. I meant the argument "People are too sensitive. I don't owe you an apology if I offended you." or the likes. Since if you hit someone sensitivities it implies you hurt them?
As in, why not just say, "I am sorry if I offended you, let me explain my argument in a different way."
We've all hurt people without trying to. Many of us have hurt people when we were trying to. If we regret the offense/hurt, we apologize.
It's human nature to apologize when you're sorry. All languages, cultures, etc.
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
A person apologizes for doing something wrong. If the other person is offended and I said nothing wrong, such as name call or attack their character or yell at them, then they are offended for their own reasons. It's their stuff and not mine, and they need to look at their reaction.
If I say something mean or stepped over the line, or I yelled at you, even if I didn't realize any of those thing were offensive at the time and you call me on it, I will apologize.
As for your last question, I don't think right or wrong plays into apologizing, because someone can be mean and still be right, and someone can be nice and still be wrong.
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Most people apologize when they find out they've hurt someone they didn't intend to hurt. It's usually followed with an explanation or with "It was wrong of me. You didn't deserve that."GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
Most people are not going about their lives trying to hurt others and really ARE sorry when they do.
Oh yes, I understand that. I meant the argument "People are too sensitive. I don't owe you an apology if I offended you." or the likes. Since if you hit someone sensitivities it implies you hurt them?
As in, why not just say, "I am sorry if I offended you, let me explain my argument in a different way."
I'm not following the back and forth on this point here, so don't know who was offended or why, but people typically won't when they are skeptical of the claim to be offended and take it as an effort to shut down discussion. For example, once I mentioned that the argument that certain foods convey energy way beyond their calories would not make them "bad foods" but actually super foods theoretically valuable in the fight against hunger and was told that I didn't understand world hunger (when that obviously was not the point) and was being offensive and insensitive to the plight of those suffering in other countries. IMO, the person who said that to me was not actually offended--because that's ridiculous--but just trying to be insulting and shut me up by claiming was saying something I clearly was not. If I had thought I'd actually hurt the person or even that her claim was not self-serving and obviously intended to be insulting, I would normally have apologized. (This also often comes up when the accusation assumes bad motives when none existed, and in those cases what often would result in an apology "oh, I had no idea," instead tends to make people defensive.)
I'll note that I've often pointed out that the usage of "clean" in "clean eating" is rude and insulting, because I think it is for reasons I have explained at length, and absolutely no one invested in the term (for some unknown reason) has thought that was a legitimate reason to stop using it or to apologize, so clearly plenty of people don't much care about the reaction of others if they think it's unreasonable. (Although obviously I am correct here.) ;-)0 -
GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Most people apologize when they find out they've hurt someone they didn't intend to hurt. It's usually followed with an explanation or with "It was wrong of me. You didn't deserve that."GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
Most people are not going about their lives trying to hurt others and really ARE sorry when they do.
Oh yes, I understand that. I meant the argument "People are too sensitive. I don't owe you an apology if I offended you." or the likes. Since if you hit someone sensitivities it implies you hurt them?
As in, why not just say, "I am sorry if I offended you, let me explain my argument in a different way."
Well, that would depend upon the situation.
This is an online forum where people discuss weight loss issues, and sometime things get heated. People have different communication styles, and we can't see facial expressions, hear tone of voice, or see body language. In my opinion, this place is a take what you like and leave the rest kind of situation, and to see it as anything else is a set up to be hurt or offended.0 -
GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Most people apologize when they find out they've hurt someone they didn't intend to hurt. It's usually followed with an explanation or with "It was wrong of me. You didn't deserve that."GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
Most people are not going about their lives trying to hurt others and really ARE sorry when they do.
Oh yes, I understand that. I meant the argument "People are too sensitive. I don't owe you an apology if I offended you." or the likes. Since if you hit someone sensitivities it implies you hurt them?
As in, why not just say, "I am sorry if I offended you, let me explain my argument in a different way."
Well, that would depend upon the situation.
This is an online forum where people discuss weight loss issues, and sometime things get heated. People have different communication styles, and we can't see facial expressions, hear tone of voice, or see body language. In my opinion, this place is a take what you like and leave the rest kind of situation, and to see it as anything else is a set up to be hurt or offended.
Thank you, thank you, I needed a good old fashioned laugh about now!
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Alright, thanks for the honest answers, a lot of valid points there. I do understand better now.
Well, that would depend upon the situation.
This is an online forum where people discuss weight loss issues, and sometime things get heated. People have different communication styles, and we can't see facial expressions, hear tone of voice, or see body language. In my opinion, this place is a take what you like and leave the rest kind of situation, and to see it as anything else is a set up to be hurt or offended.
This is interesting, because I actually see it the other way around – because I know people cannot see my facial expression or my tone of voice, I have to be more careful with my wording, as it's prone to being misinterpreted.
Which also kind of leads me to writing walls of texts at time, so I guess there are disadvantages to that as well. 0 -
I heard Bill Ayers (the American terrorist) on NPR this morning saying that half of America is not eating enough. He claimed these underfed American's are living in my own neighborhood, no less. American's are starving while being too fat. Being poor and underfed causes fatness, being wealthy and overfed causes thinness. The logic makes my head spin.0
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I heard Bill Ayers (the American terrorist) on NPR this morning saying that half of America is not eating enough. He claimed these underfed American's are living in my own neighborhood, no less. American's are starving while being too fat. Being poor and underfed causes fatness, being wealthy and overfed causes thinness. The logic makes my head spin.
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »Alright, thanks for the honest answers, a lot of valid points there. I do understand better now.
Well, that would depend upon the situation.
This is an online forum where people discuss weight loss issues, and sometime things get heated. People have different communication styles, and we can't see facial expressions, hear tone of voice, or see body language. In my opinion, this place is a take what you like and leave the rest kind of situation, and to see it as anything else is a set up to be hurt or offended.
This is interesting, because I actually see it the other way around – because I know people cannot see my facial expression or my tone of voice, I have to be more careful with my wording, as it's prone to being misinterpreted.
Which also kind of leads me to writing walls of texts at time, so I guess there are disadvantages to that as well.
No problem at all. 0 -
GingerbreadCandy wrote: »I heard Bill Ayers (the American terrorist) on NPR this morning saying that half of America is not eating enough. He claimed these underfed American's are living in my own neighborhood, no less. American's are starving while being too fat. Being poor and underfed causes fatness, being wealthy and overfed causes thinness. The logic makes my head spin.
Not sure what your post means, but I am sure the newly thin Al Sharpton will be along to explain about caloric justice.
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I heard Bill Ayers (the American terrorist) on NPR this morning saying that half of America is not eating enough. He claimed these underfed American's are living in my own neighborhood, no less. American's are starving while being too fat. Being poor and underfed causes fatness, being wealthy and overfed causes thinness. The logic makes my head spin.
I'm right there with ya..gif)
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »I heard Bill Ayers (the American terrorist) on NPR this morning saying that half of America is not eating enough. He claimed these underfed American's are living in my own neighborhood, no less. American's are starving while being too fat. Being poor and underfed causes fatness, being wealthy and overfed causes thinness. The logic makes my head spin.
Not sure what your post means, but I am sure the newly thin Al Sharpton will be along to explain about caloric justice.
I usually reserve that gif for arguments that are so out of left field I can't even start countering them.
Do I want to know about caloric justice?0 -
That is not left field, it is very far right.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't understand why the OP is getting so much hostility. She isn't advocating some kind of quack "magic foods" myth or arguing against CICO. She's saying that just parroting "Calories in, Calories out, end of story!!!" is completely unhelpful to people who are struggling with weight loss. Maintaining a CICO strategy over the period of time required to safely and healthily lose even ten pounds is CHALLENGING. Yes, success will biologically come down to CICO, but these long term disciplines are largely a mental game, not a "just don't do it" game.
I think OP's tips are good ones (largely common sense). However, I don't agree that there's some distinction between a mental game and a "just don't do it" game. I see people asking how to avoid going over their calories, and to be honest I find this kind of difficult to understand. You just don't. You plan what you are going to eat and eat that. Sure, it's easier if what you eat is more filling (that seems kind of obvious, doesn't it?) and takes into account when you tend to feel hungry, but ultimately it IS a don't do it game if you decide to count calories or follow some other strategy.
For example, if your goal is 1600 and you are routinely going over 1600, you need to stop that and eat to your limit. I'm not saying I never go over my limit, but it's always a choice to do so or not. Similarly, if you pick some other strategy, like IF or cutting carbs or doing paleo or whatever, there are other things you just don't do that happen to have the side effect for those for whom they are successful of cutting calories.
What am I missing here?
You aren't missing a LOT, just a crucial point...losing the lard HEALTHFULLY takes TIME. And, sustaining CICO for months or years at a time can lead to a tougher mental game than "just do it" satisfies. I lost 10% of my body weight (I'm a small framed woman, so the number of pounds there is very small compared to many others) over 2 months, and before I gave myself a break for Thanksgiving, I was literally DREAMING about food every night, chewy bread, mashed potatoes...anything but turkey breast and hummus. I can't imagine how challenging those cravings must be for people who have 10 times the weight loss goal as I have...especially because to get that big, they have probably become very accustomed to foods and/or portions I've never dreamed of. "Just do it" isn't enough for a person who has been denying themselves for MONTHS and hit a plateau. Sometimes, mental tricks like adding veggies or timed protein snacks or, yes, knitting--- those are the simple actions that help someone choose that fork in the road that carries on with CICO.
Because, if I can whine that "I miss food" after a month of trying to get below 135, I can't imagine the struggles of will faced by the many people here who are trying to lose fully half of their body weight. Snarking that they should "just do it" doesn't feel like enough support to me. Back in his 20s, my husband ran ultra-marathons. He says he spent the whole time after mile 20 or so playing mental games with himself, "what if" mental exercises to spur him forward for the miles to come.
If "just do it" is all you need, then good for you. I just don't see any reason to come and crap on this thread except for "NEENER NEENER, I'M SO MUCH MORE DISCIPLINED THAN YOU PLEBES!!!!" If people need mental strategies and tricks to get over humps along the way, why storm in and snark at them? If I say (and I am the one who did) "Try knitting, it helps keeps your hands busy not snacking!" is there really something to be gained from sneering "who wants to knit?" (n.b. about 4-5 million people, if Ravelry stats are to be believed) I mean, I get being a naysayer on a thread where someone is spouting hokum about silly miracle or demon foods, or acting like drinking MLM shakes is the path to enlightenment....but seriously, I can't think of one decent reason for people to be crapping on Helen's willingness to share what's worked for her.0 -
Can someone sparknotes this ?0
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If "just do it" is all you need, then good for you. I just don't see any reason to come and crap on this thread except for "NEENER NEENER, I'M SO MUCH MORE DISCIPLINED THAN YOU PLEBES!!!!" If people need mental strategies and tricks to get over humps along the way, why storm in and snark at them?
This is a truly bizarre reaction to my post.
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At the end of the day, it does come down to "Just Do It". That's the unfortunate reality.
Either put yourself in a position where there simply isn't much excess food around (very difficult in the developed world!) or find the inner strength to say no.
At the root of it all - there is no other answer. Yes, I know it sucks. But what can you do - it is what it is.
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Some of the tips in the OP work for me, some don't apply. I appreciate the spirit of it though, her attempts to offer actual steps that might help people execute CICO.
Some of us are very well equipped and able to just get down to business, find what works for us, and move toward our goals. But plenty of people need more guidance, tips and examples. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what the OP did.
Different strokes, folks. We need MORE variety of roads that lead to Rome around here, not less. This board seem to become more and more myopic by the day.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »People generally fail at maintaining a healthy weight because ultimately most people talk a good talk about "lifestyle change"...but in reality, those are just words and they have no idea how to actually implement a change of lifestyle.
I don't think CICO is a gross oversimplification...but I would agree that people need to adopt a more healthful lifestyle in general if they want to maintain a healthy weight and their health and well being in general. The problem is that people lose weight and they just go back to whatever they were doing before...eating the S.A.D...they stop exercising, etc. I mean look at how many threads there are in RE to "I'm in maintenance, can I stop exercising" or whatever.
Generally speaking, most people can't even conceptualize what a change of lifestyle really means or is, let alone actually implement such a change.
^^This, every word.^^^ Couldn't have said it better myself.
Look at the daily influx of "I'm back, I lost it all but 'fell off the wagon' of..... "
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