General Weight Loss Advice Beyond Calories In and Calories Out
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I don't know why, but once it finally "clicked," I just made weight loss part of my life.
I really do eat pretty much whatever I want, and I eat until I am satisfied.
I workout to feel better and maintain muscle mass, but it really doesn't make much difference in how much I lose.
I overeat some days, and may be at maintenance for that day, but I don't freak out about it, and I don't make it a pattern. The next day I just get on with it, like it never happened.
There is no food that is off limits, but I don't keep a lot of junk in the house. I do value having chocolate and certain snacks, as well as healthy foods, in the house at all times, but I can eat out as well, and still stick to my diet.
I know the calorie content of most everything I eat, so even if I don't log, I have a good general idea.
I know that I am going to keep at this until I reach my goal, so there is no question; I have to continue. And there is no pressure. I don't have a deadline I have to meet.
This is what works for me. What works for you may be totally different. That is the beauty of the process.0 -
Iwishyouwell wrote: »Some of the tips in the OP work for me, some don't apply. I appreciate the spirit of it though, her attempts to offer actual steps that might help people execute CICO.
Some of us are very well equipped and able to just get down to business, find what works for us, and move toward our goals. But plenty of people need more guidance, tips and examples. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what the OP did.
Different strokes, folks. We need MORE variety of roads that lead to Rome around here, not less. This board seem to become more and more myopic by the day.
QFT0 -
Iwishyouwell wrote: »Some of the tips in the OP work for me, some don't apply. I appreciate the spirit of it though, her attempts to offer actual steps that might help people execute CICO.
Some of us are very well equipped and able to just get down to business, find what works for us, and move toward our goals. But plenty of people need more guidance, tips and examples. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what the OP did.
Different strokes, folks. We need MORE variety of roads that lead to Rome around here, not less. This board seem to become more and more myopic by the day.
QFT
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I appreciate the advice of the OP and find it fits well for me. I look forward to the day it all just fits together and becomes automatic.0
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Iwishyouwell wrote: »Some of the tips in the OP work for me, some don't apply.
Agreed.Some of us are very well equipped and able to just get down to business, find what works for us, and move toward our goals. But plenty of people need more guidance, tips and examples. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what the OP did.
For some reason, and as I said I might be misreading tone, it felt somewhat condescending to me. There's a difference between saying "these are things I did" in response to an actual question vs. a post that purports to tell everyone what we must do (which should be what OP did). Especially when it's stuff that largely seems like rather obvious common sense, and when it was clarified by a post that in essence said that lots of people are fat, so they must not know these things. But I admit my reaction to this is not the only legitimate one, and as I said before I expect it was well-intentioned. It just read a bit like "anyone fat must also be a moron."
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Look at the daily influx of "I'm back, I lost it all but 'fell off the wagon' of..... "
Absolutely, but the question is whether people fall off the wagon because they can't figure out the kinds of common sense matters that OP was focusing on, or whether they lose motivation or stop caring about doing those kinds of things for other reasons. Who knows, but for me it's not an inability to figure out that I should eat foods that are filling for me. (Of course, for me gaining weight isn't really about true hunger, but that's another issue.)
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It's funny, but I read it the other way around. For me, the OP was trying to offer helpful tips and advice for people who might find them useful or who might be struggling to stick to their CICO goals. That didn't strike me as patronizing at all.
What struck me as patronizing was the responses along the lines of "come on people, just do it, it's not hard!" or "you don't need to know anything other than CICO", which, while technically true, is also a bit unhelpful for people who are genuinely trying but who find it harder than others.
FWIW, this is my third attempt at MFP. This time, unlike the other times, something just 'clicked' for me and I'm finding it a LOT easier to "just do it". But the site is full of thousands of people, a large percentage of whom have weight loss goals and many of whom are second-, third- or fourth-time returnees. Why? Because this is really hard for some people! If it was easy for everyone to be disciplined and motivated and to stick to CICO all the time, there wouldn't be so many people struggling to lose weight.
So if it's easy for you, then great. Seriously, that's not sarcastic. All the kudos and applause in the world.
But if someone came to me trying to figure out a math problem and was struggling with it, I wouldn't say "just solve it". I'd help them through it, try to work out what concepts were tripping them up, explain it a different way until they got it. I'd offer encouragement and support as they studied and tried to figure out an approach that worked for them.
Well, likewise with weight loss. If people want to share some common-sense strategies that work for them, well, hey, I'm all for it! As long as they're not spreading pseudoscience or myths, I say, why not? You don't have to take that advice. But maybe someone having a tough day will read it and say, hey, let me try that, maybe it will work for me!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »For some reason, and as I said I might be misreading tone, it felt somewhat condescending to me. There's a difference between saying "these are things I did" in response to an actual question vs. a post that purports to tell everyone what we must do (which should be what OP did). Especially when it's stuff that largely seems like rather obvious common sense, and when it was clarified by a post that in essence said that lots of people are fat, so they must not know these things. But I admit my reaction to this is not the only legitimate one, and as I said before I expect it was well-intentioned. It just read a bit like "anyone fat must also be a moron."
The OP didn't come off to me like that, but obviously I can't speak to her intentions one way or another. I get being irked by your interpretation of tone. Hell I usually don't like list threads like this on MFP for the plethora of OPs who flat out state some variation of "these are the rules you must follow to lose/maintain".
Which, tone aside, the OP didn't do. She stated "I have found a number of things that made this process easier:". That leaves me with the distinct impression that she simply was embarking on a list of things that worked...for her. Either way, I've said my peace on this side debate about perceived tone.
As far as the info being common sense? I'd lay cards on the table that some of the sense in the OP isn't all that common at all. There is still a very pervasive ignorance about much of this stuff.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »(Of course, for me gaining weight isn't really about true hunger, but that's another issue.)
1000% this, for me too. I've never become fat off true hunger. I am very well aware of that now.
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It's funny, but I read it the other way around. For me, the OP was trying to offer helpful tips and advice for people who might find them useful or who might be struggling to stick to their CICO goals. That didn't strike me as patronizing at all.
It wouldn't have seemed condescending to me if someone had been asking "how did you handle this?" It was the apparent message-from-on-high aspect of it, which seemed to say "you all must be wondering about this, let me tell you how it's done." And then followed by stuff like "you might want to eat some vegetables" and a post saying that she thought we needed this because lots of people are fat, thus indicating that apparently people are fat because they don't know to google to get ideas about filling foods or to eat vegetables.What struck me as patronizing was the responses along the lines of "come on people, just do it, it's not hard!" or "you don't need to know anything other than CICO", which, while technically true, is also a bit unhelpful for people who are genuinely trying but who find it harder than others.
Yeah, if there were someone asking for advice on how to stick to a particular calorie limit or to get started, I wouldn't think "calories in, calories out, is all you need to know" would be good advice either--it's the absence of a question that creates the weirdness.
But also, ultimately, just do it is part of it. You need to figure out how to help yourself do it, but you also need to make that choice and if you are out of calories (or otherwise have a particular plan for achieving weight loss), don't go have another snack.This time, unlike the other times, something just 'clicked' for me and I'm finding it a LOT easier to "just do it".
Totally get that--I didn't do MFP, but I tried to get myself back on track several times before I finally was able to this time, and that's despite being aware of the various tricks that tend to work for me, as well as how to eat a healthy filling meal and meal plan, etc. No clue why this time I was able to "just do it" vs. the others, but none of the kinds of advice that OP gave seem to me to get at that--although I do think they could be helpful for other kinds of questions (had one been asked), along with strategies that others followed, of course.
Hmm. That's not totally true--one thing I realized had been helpful to me when I lost weight before and which I didn't realize had been helpful until I'd been on MFP for a bit was the community aspect. Helps keep you interested (IMO) when you might otherwise get tired or burnt out.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Hmm. That's not totally true--one thing I realized had been helpful to me when I lost weight before and which I didn't realize had been helpful until I'd been on MFP for a bit was the community aspect. Helps keep you interested (IMO) when you might otherwise get tired or burnt out.
Yeah, I think one thing I did differently this time, now that you mention it, is that I got more community support! In the past, I sort of approached weight loss as something to keep secret, to not tell anyone about, maybe because of all the feelings of shame associated with fat.
This time, I not only involved a very wonderful friend / fitness buddy / cheerleader in RL, but I also embraced this community (well, most people) and founded a 60-day challenge group full of people who keep me motivated. I also added more MFP friends who log in daily and opened my diary to them so they could keep me honest and motivated.
I'm still not going up to everyone I meet and talking about diet and exercise. But I've let in a select group of people, and that's making a huge difference so far.0 -
Helen71017 wrote: »I see lots of posts debating the calories in versus calories out concept. Although it is an important fundamental principle for weight loss, it is also a gross oversimplification of the challenges one faces to achieve lasting weight loss. I am 5’4” and have maintained my current weight of 112-114 for about eight months after losing 15 pounds.
I have found a number of things that made this process easier:
1. Accurate calorie logging – weigh and measure everything (there are various posts that explain this further).
2. Foods that keep you full – I searched various websites for suggestions on healthy low calorie, high protein food suggestions.
3. Vegetables and fruit – I don’t need to eat as much of a high calorie main course if half my plate is filled with vegetables. Salads with low calorie dressings like balsamic vinaigrette are great easy side items.
4. Planned filling snacks – I generally stick to 200 to 400 calorie meals with 100-300 calories snacks between meals. Again I did some Google searches for ideas and personally I like pistachios, tangerines, quest chips, raspberries, Greek yogurt, carrots, fruit and quest bars.
5. Don’t go hungry. A high protein diet with fruit and vegetables generally keeps me full. But I sometimes increased my daily goal to 1500 or even 1700 (maintenance for me) as a break. I don’t like cheat days because it is easy to blow an entire week’s worth of work. It hurts sometimes, but I log all my “bad days”
6. Regular exercise helps. I have become a little addicted to exercise, but I was only working out three or four days a week when I was actively losing weight. When I work out too much (like I do sometimes now), controlling my diet is harder because I am hungrier. The only time that I watch television is at the gym, so I look forward to going.
7. Make goals and don’t use food as a reward. Personally I preferred shoes (because they still fit after I stopped losing weight).
8. Find a good support group. MFP is an excellent resource for this.
9. Avoid high calorie drinks. A tablespoon of hot chocolate in my morning coffee is an excellent treat, only 42 calories (including the coffee), and it does not involve fake sugar.
10. Learn to cook, cook in bulk and freeze meals for easy reheating. Calorie counting is hard with restaurants because very few of them publish nutritional data
11. Plan! I make a general plan for my weekly meals and snacks. Then each morning I make a plan for the day, which I modify throughout the day to reflect my actual intake.
12. Remember that your metabolism may slow down with prolonged dieting. I had to increase my total calories gradually after I reached my goal weight until my metabolism recovered.
13. Daily weight fluctuations are mostly due to salt intake. Weekly changes mean more, and it is best to weigh at the same time of the day with minimal confounding factors (i.e. clothing).
14. Don’t keep problem foods in the house. When I eat ice cream, I buy one single serve container from the grocery store and plan for it in my daily calories.
15. Eat slowly. It takes your body time to register that it has eaten enough. I like food that takes extra time to eat like salads, pistachios, crab legs and tangerines.
If you need additional assistance consider asking your doctor for a referral to a nutritionist.
This is EXCELLENT advice! I'm also 5'4" and I lost 50 lbs and have maintained my current weight of 130 lbs for almost two years now. I did almost every single one of your tips and it has made my weight loss and maintenance easier and more sustainable.
I definitely agree with you that while the calories in versus calories out concept is a basic fundamental principle for weight loss, there's a little more to it than simply eating less than you burn. I've found that while it's definitely possible to lose weight eating all junk food but limiting your calorie intake, it's harder to keep that up because it doesn't leave you feeling as full and satisfied. Your tips make the process of calories in versus calories out easier to maintain in the long term because when you eat the right food, you don't need as many calories to feel full and satisfied, so it's easier because you don't feel like you're "dieting."
In my experience, eating a diet high in protein and fiber along with moderate exercise 4-5 days/week has made maintenance, and even the weight loss part, almost a cakewalk.
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PrettyPearl88 wrote: »I definitely agree with you that while the calories in versus calories out concept is a basic fundamental principle for weight loss, there's a little more to it than simply eating less than you burn. I've found that while it's definitely possible to lose weight eating all junk food but limiting your calorie intake, it's harder to keep that up because it doesn't leave you feeling as full and satisfied.
Why do people say stuff like this? I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but genuinely curious. When you started, did you think that losing weight eating "all junk food" would be a good idea? Do you assume that others trying to lose weight typically follow that approach unless advised otherwise?
I think I was probably a bit too quick assume condescension in the OP's post and I feel a little bad about that, but this is the kind of thing that led to me seeing it--I tend to assume that others are generally as knowledgeable about stuff as I am (since why would I be so special), so if something seems like common sense or basic knowledge to me I don't typically assume that others are operating without such insight. If someone asks questions that indicate that they are seeking such information, that's (of course) different.
But then I also find it odd that people want to be told what to eat and seem not to have an understanding of what a basic healthy diet would be sometimes (although of course there's a tremendous variation of possibilities within this category and room for debate), so it's entirely possible I'm the weird one here.
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I think it's a little of both.
Yes, the information is out there and available to anyone who takes an interest. In theory, if someone finds the will to lose weight and eat right, they'll put the time and effort into researching, reading up, and finding the way.
But no, it's not always that easy. For one thing, the signal-to-noise ratio is terrible, especially with so much misinformation and false information, so many fad diets and fake 'miracle diets', and an overall lack of scientific literacy. Not everyone knows how to sift through the volumes of *kitten* to weed out the real stuff, or how to suss out peer-reviewed evidence-based recommendations from the other stuff. That's one issue.
The other issue is that, for a lot of people, knowing how to do something in theory and knowing how to do it in practice are two different things. So in theory, for instance, you may know that it's good to eat fewer calories and to eat healthier food. In practice, though, what does that actually involve? It involves changing a lot of deeply ingrained habits. Maybe it involves learning how to cook new foods and recipes instead of stopping at the drive-through. Maybe it involves grocery shopping for things you've never eaten before, or figuring out how to say no to that extra slice of pizza or chocolate cake. These are skills that come naturally to people who have been doing these things their whole lives, but not so naturally to people who are new at it.
So you stumble at first. You practice. You maybe fail a bit but you come back and try again. You ask questions. Maybe you get conflicting answers. To be told that "CICO is all that matters; there are no good or bad foods" on the one hand, and "eat more healthy food and less junk" on the other is not a contradiction at all, but to people sorting out all the different pieces of advice, they can seem contradictory. Then you have the bros telling people that they have to eat 200g of protein and lift 200 pounds, and the runners telling them to sign up for marathons, and the vegans touting an all-vegan diet, and the anti-GMO crowd chimes in with the latest scare tactic article... Well, you get the idea. It's enough to make anyone's head spin.
tl;dr: There's a lot of information out there and it can be overwhelming at first. Remember, everyone was a newbie once.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »PrettyPearl88 wrote: »I definitely agree with you that while the calories in versus calories out concept is a basic fundamental principle for weight loss, there's a little more to it than simply eating less than you burn. I've found that while it's definitely possible to lose weight eating all junk food but limiting your calorie intake, it's harder to keep that up because it doesn't leave you feeling as full and satisfied.
Why do people say stuff like this? I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but genuinely curious. When you started, did you think that losing weight eating "all junk food" would be a good idea? Do you assume that others trying to lose weight typically follow that approach unless advised otherwise?
I think I was probably a bit too quick assume condescension in the OP's post and I feel a little bad about that, but this is the kind of thing that led to me seeing it--I tend to assume that others are generally as knowledgeable about stuff as I am (since why would I be so special), so if something seems like common sense or basic knowledge to me I don't typically assume that others are operating without such insight. If someone asks questions that indicate that they are seeking such information, that's (of course) different.
But then I also find it odd that people want to be told what to eat and seem not to have an understanding of what a basic healthy diet would be sometimes (although of course there's a tremendous variation of possibilities within this category and room for debate), so it's entirely possible I'm the weird one here.
No, I didn't think that losing weight eating ALL junk food would be a good idea when I started...but honestly, I did think that I could still eat a decent portion of junk food (just lower calorie junk food or smaller amounts of junk food) and that that would be perfectly okay and healthy.
I said what I said purely for argument's sake though, for the sole purpose of refuting the opposing argument. The opposing argument (the version I hear too often) is basically this: You don't have to restrict any foods; eat whatever you want as long as you're eating less than you burn and you'll lose weight. To help their argument, they often use extreme examples, such as "Eating only Oreos while still consuming less calories than you burn will result in weight loss." They seem to focus on the question of whether it's POSSIBLE to eat junk food and lose weight, instead of whether it's ADVISABLE to do so. My comment was specifically addressing people who make these kind of arguments.
And believe it or not, there are actually people who think that a healthy plan for weight loss includes an average day such as this:
-A Fiber One bar for breakfast
-4 oz of chicken plus a lettuce salad with Walden Farms 0-calorie Caesar dressing for lunch
-Snacks of: one banana, one little pudding cup of Jello sugar-free chocolate pudding, and one serving of Lays Salt and Vinegar potato chips
-4 oz of chicken with steamed broccoli for dinner
Not only are these people all over MFP, but I, myself, used to be one of them. I used to strive to eat a diet pretty much exactly like that at first.
But then I realized that while I could, and was, losing weight that way, it was too hard after a while. I wasn't feeling full and satisfied. That's because a lot of my calories were empty calories. Once I started eating less junk food and replaced that with more protein and fiber, I felt more full and satisfied and sticking to my "diet" didn't feel nearly as hard.
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Good tips OP. I'll offer one too. Incorporate refeed days. It's been shown to make calories in calories out even more effective with fat loss.
http://suppversity.blogspot.de/2014/11/calorie-shifting-refeeding-for-max-fat.html0 -
Many people don't know what foods are healthy and what aren't. The information around here is quite varied. Hell, someone will probably chastise me for that first sentence, with a "Don't be judgmental about food! There is no unhealthy food!"lemurcat12 wrote: »PrettyPearl88 wrote: »I definitely agree with you that while the calories in versus calories out concept is a basic fundamental principle for weight loss, there's a little more to it than simply eating less than you burn. I've found that while it's definitely possible to lose weight eating all junk food but limiting your calorie intake, it's harder to keep that up because it doesn't leave you feeling as full and satisfied.
Why do people say stuff like this? I'm honestly not trying to be argumentative, but genuinely curious. When you started, did you think that losing weight eating "all junk food" would be a good idea? Do you assume that others trying to lose weight typically follow that approach unless advised otherwise?
I think I was probably a bit too quick assume condescension in the OP's post and I feel a little bad about that, but this is the kind of thing that led to me seeing it--I tend to assume that others are generally as knowledgeable about stuff as I am (since why would I be so special), so if something seems like common sense or basic knowledge to me I don't typically assume that others are operating without such insight. If someone asks questions that indicate that they are seeking such information, that's (of course) different.
But then I also find it odd that people want to be told what to eat and seem not to have an understanding of what a basic healthy diet would be sometimes (although of course there's a tremendous variation of possibilities within this category and room for debate), so it's entirely possible I'm the weird one here.
Just the other day, I saw a post from someone who argued that she met all her macros for the day, so her diet couldn't be unhealthy. She really believed that, too. Dollars to donuts, she learned that on these boards.
Until the new "My Plate" thing, the information kids were taught in school was either incomplete (have something from each of the four food groups) or too darn complicated (the pyramid.) I think this new My Plate may do a lot of good!
Having been a person who had absolutely no excuse to not know better, I didn't know. I was able to find the information - consulted a dietitian and read books - but I didn't know. I seriously have NO excuse to not have known. God knows I was given the info and told to learn it. I blew it off. (Although, just as well for me, since things keep changing, I'd have had to re-learn it, anyway.)
You might not be "special", lol, but you probably know more than a lot of people. It's great that you don't get a big head about it and make fun of people, but you do know more about that subject than a whole big bunch of people.
Most people know almost nothing about nutrition.0 -
i find that simple is better. i dont plan my meals in advance day to day but i do when i grocery shop. i dont plan my workouts, i do cardio when i feel energetic and weights when i feel low key and nothing or jut walking when i dont feel like doing anything. i consider my weight loss plan to be less of a plan and more finding my way to enjoy eating less and moving more. if i dont enjoy it, if i force it... i never succeed.
if i were to offer any advice outside of calories in calories out it would be lighten up. be patient. dont take yourself too seriously. it is about overall change not perfection or racing to meet a weight loss goal.
i just really disagree that plan plan plan weigh and measure set dates etc is a workable thing for every personality type. definitely not mine. but thats me.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Iwishyouwell wrote: »Some of the tips in the OP work for me, some don't apply.
Agreed.Some of us are very well equipped and able to just get down to business, find what works for us, and move toward our goals. But plenty of people need more guidance, tips and examples. There is absolutely nothing wrong with what the OP did.
For some reason, and as I said I might be misreading tone, it felt somewhat condescending to me. There's a difference between saying "these are things I did" in response to an actual question vs. a post that purports to tell everyone what we must do (which should be what OP did). Especially when it's stuff that largely seems like rather obvious common sense, and when it was clarified by a post that in essence said that lots of people are fat, so they must not know these things. But I admit my reaction to this is not the only legitimate one, and as I said before I expect it was well-intentioned. It just read a bit like "anyone fat must also be a moron."
I apologize if my tone came off as condescending. I failed my previous casual attempts at dieting prior to MFP. When I started MFP, I spent hours reading various websites on weight loss and nutrition. Most of the things that work for me came from these sources and MFP friends. As you point out, most of my suggestions seem like common sense, but it helped me to have someone spell it out. MFP allowed me to lose weight fairly easily without giving up the food that I enjoy or going hungry. I had hoped that some of what worked for me might help other people facing similar challenges.
I do not believe that being overweight is synonymous with being less intelligent. Quite the opposite, some of the most intelligent people that I know are overweight. In my personal experience, weight seems to correlate better with stress and age than education and intellect.0
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