General Weight Loss Advice Beyond Calories In and Calories Out
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Guys, I am one of you. If you want to read this.. It really explains a whole lot..
http://www.acaloriecounter.com/blog/why-am-i-not-losing-weight/0 -
It is actually good to have an argument every now then! Bashing is NEVER intended. It is harmful and there are more people that are sensitive, angry, mad and have a lot of hatred. EVERY SINGLE TOPIC, COMMENT, REPLY is up to interpretation. I am not an angry person - I am actually planning my steak dinner hoping to stay within my calorie deficit!
Lighten up! The CICO method in the meantime is the measurement to start. And again, I am struggling just like the rest of you. The truth for me hurt like hell! CICO is the first page in the book to follow!0 -
Helen71017 wrote: »ithrowconfetti wrote: »OP, it's good to hear that you've worked out something that you personally find sustainable in maintaining your ideal weight goals. However, CICO is not a gross oversimplification as you claim, because understanding and determining your personal calorie intake is the only thing that will make a difference in whatever challenge(s) you may face. Also, low-calorie, high-protein foods may be useful for some, but different people have differing macros. And things like "don't keep problem foods in the house" is not the best advice to give people who need to build healthy relationships with food. Anyhow, way to go for maintaining your weight thus far!
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One does not take an alcoholic and tell them that all they need to do is not drink alcohol. The failure rate for treatment would be abysmal. Useful financial advice must go beyond: save more than you spend. Calories in less than calories out, although simple in theory, is plagued by challenges in its execution.
Helen, thanks for your original post. I do agree on most points with you and while it might not be the right way for all people it is still helpful.
Re. your comparison to alcohol though, I am afraid it is as simple as that: do not pick up the first glass! I have experience in that matter and it really boils down to "all you need to do is stop drinking alcohol". This is certainly not helping underlying issues but it is the most and ONLY effective step to stop you from being an active alcoholic.
I agree with this and almost said the same thing.This is where the link is to losing weight: at the end of the day it is "calories in versus calories out". Again, this might not help you necessarily to get fitter and healthier, but you will achieve the goal to lose weight.
For me personally though, there is so much more to health and fitness then losing weight and being slim. I believe in exercise and in eating as healthy as possible. This does not mean I cannot have snacks or special treats occassionally. Also what really helped me in maintenance is to look at my weekly calorie deficit and not my daily. If I over indulged today I make up for it one of the next days. As long as I stay under my weekly calorie goal I am fine. It worked for me so far.
Related to this, I think for a lot of people caring is the issue, and a focus on being healthy and fit--fitness goals and all of that--often go along with caring enough to put up with not being able to just eat whatever for many people. I know for me I naturally eat pretty well and a sensible amount when I'm exercising. When I'm not, it's easy to also stop caring so much about what I eat.
This maybe goes to the points people have made about strategies being somewhat individual.
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Helen71017 wrote: »I see lots of posts debating the calories in versus calories out concept. Although it is an important fundamental principle for weight loss, it is also a gross oversimplification of the challenges one faces to achieve lasting weight loss.
You’ve hit it on the head: Accurate logging; food choices; planned low-calorie snacks; some kind of exercise; No cheat days (personally I do have a “planned” treat meal a few times a month - but that doesn't mean overboard calories); goals; learning to cook with the right ingredients (I tweak high-calorie recipes by with low-calorie ingredients); Plan, plan, plan – once it becomes a habit, you don’t even think of it anymore.
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Does every topic here turn into a DEBATE? I thought this started out as possibly a good discussion but reading the thread seems so negative. It would be nice if people would only use the keyboard when they had something positive to post.0
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I have to side with the OP here. Yes, when it comes to losing weight, the only defining element of it is CICO. However, tips like those the OP are posting can be useful to help people stick to CICO and persevere till the end. More importantly, it can help them to change their lifestyle, which is necessary to a certain extent to maintain.
I really don't understand why a debate has to start whenever someone suggests any tips beyond "just do it". It is absolutely fantastic for you if you were able, from one day to the next, to eat less than you expended. For others, it may not be as easy. There may be multiple reasons for this – they may be used to a certain rhythm or lifestyle they now have to break. They may find dieting and exercising harder than they expected. They may find they get hungry really quickly and aren't sure what to do about it.
At the end of the day, if you want to lose weight, you WILL have to stick to CICO and almost certainly exercise. You WILL have to persevere. It WILL take time.
Does that mean you cannot take advantage of the experiences of others in order to stay within your calorie limit and succeed? Of course not! That is why there are websites like My Fitness Pal, that contain forums, so people can share their experiences and learn from each other.
It's not about debating CICO; it's about giving tips that could be helpful if you are having trouble staying within your calorie goals.
So, I am going to throw here a couple of other tips:
- You don't have to give up your favourite food or meal. You just have to fit it within your daily goal. Try an alternative recipe, or learn to make it yourself if it was a processed or pre-made food.
- Find a type of exercise you enjoy. There is nothing worse than putting yourself through an exercise routine you hate.
- DO consider your macros. Even if you are in it just to look good, it will be helpful on the long run.0 -
Debate is healthy, Lets you see both sides.. You can figure out the rest yourself.0
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Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.0 -
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Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?0 -
Haha! I thought you might appreciate it. 0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't understand why the OP is getting so much hostility. She isn't advocating some kind of quack "magic foods" myth or arguing against CICO. She's saying that just parroting "Calories in, Calories out, end of story!!!" is completely unhelpful to people who are struggling with weight loss. Maintaining a CICO strategy over the period of time required to safely and healthily lose even ten pounds is CHALLENGING. Yes, success will biologically come down to CICO, but these long term disciplines are largely a mental game, not a "just don't do it" game.
I think OP's tips are good ones (largely common sense). However, I don't agree that there's some distinction between a mental game and a "just don't do it" game. I see people asking how to avoid going over their calories, and to be honest I find this kind of difficult to understand. You just don't. You plan what you are going to eat and eat that. Sure, it's easier if what you eat is more filling (that seems kind of obvious, doesn't it?) and takes into account when you tend to feel hungry, but ultimately it IS a don't do it game if you decide to count calories or follow some other strategy.
For example, if your goal is 1600 and you are routinely going over 1600, you need to stop that and eat to your limit. I'm not saying I never go over my limit, but it's always a choice to do so or not. Similarly, if you pick some other strategy, like IF or cutting carbs or doing paleo or whatever, there are other things you just don't do that happen to have the side effect for those for whom they are successful of cutting calories.
What am I missing here?
First of all thank you for being so clear. This is so far the only post that actually made me understand the other side to the debate.
I agree that in the end, you need to face the fact that the only real solution is staying under your calorie goal. I think, however, that especially beginners and people with little knowledge of dieting and nutrition could find it helpful to read through tips such as the ones the OP posted. Obviously, one person's tips may not work for another person. Although, I do think that the OP's aim was to allow people to debate what had and had not worked for them so that newcomers could find ideas and help in these tips.
For instance, one thing I would have never thought of a year ago is to favour foods with low calories but large volumes to calorie-dense but low-volume foods. And it does work for me! Someone may find the opposite is true, but the tip may still help someone who had not thought of it.
I think this is what people are seeing as advantageous int he OP's post, whereas others are taking it as a blanket statement to apply to everyone, when I think the OP herself stated was not her intention.0 -
Most people apologize when they find out they've hurt someone they didn't intend to hurt. It's usually followed with an explanation or with "It was wrong of me. You didn't deserve that."GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
Most people are not going about their lives trying to hurt others and really ARE sorry when they do.0 -
Most people apologize when they find out they've hurt someone they didn't intend to hurt. It's usually followed with an explanation or with "It was wrong of me. You didn't deserve that."GingerbreadCandy wrote: »
Yes it does.
If someone tells you that you're being offensive, the proper response is to say "sorry" and not to defend yourself by attacking the person you're offending.
Learn to have a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners. These things will get you far in life.
Really.....?
Wow. Just wow.
Just because somebody has offended you does not mean said person has a duty to apologize to you. It also does not mean that person is trying to offend you, or that their words were even offensive. It just means they are communicating in a way that you don't like, or they are saying something you don't want to hear.
By the way, while you're pointing that finger at whomever offended you, and while you are pointing that finger at me telling me to have "a little bit of compassion, empathy and just plain manners," there are three more fingers pointing back at you.
There is nothing wrong with discussions, heated discussions, arguments, and pointing out when someone is giving incorrect information or making blanket statements about the right and wrong way to do eat, exercise, etc.
Something I never understand in this kind of arguments… and this is a genuine question, by the way.
If you did not want to offend the person, why wouldn't you apologise if they said they were offended? Refusing, from my point of view, just makes you sound antagonistic. I don't see any added value from it. If anything, it is counterproductive to the debate, as it moves the discussion on a more personal level distracting from the arguments and facts at hand.
Is it because you are afraid it would imply the other person is right?
Most people are not going about their lives trying to hurt others and really ARE sorry when they do.
Oh yes, I understand that. I meant the argument "People are too sensitive. I don't owe you an apology if I offended you." or the likes. Since if you hit someone sensitivities it implies you hurt them?
As in, why not just say, "I am sorry if I offended you, let me explain my argument in a different way."0 -
OP--an idea from another member which seems to resonate is eat at maintenance for 5 days and eat your deficit for 2. The idea is to be restrictive for 2 versus 7 days. Mild PITA everyday versus 2 days of greater discipline or so the story goes. Seems to work pretty well for some folks. Best of luck everybody.0
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »I have to side with the OP here. Yes, when it comes to losing weight, the only defining element of it is CICO. However, tips like those the OP are posting can be useful to help people stick to CICO and persevere till the end. More importantly, it can help them to change their lifestyle, which is necessary to a certain extent to maintain.
That's basically what kgeyser said, but like she said its an issue of what works for weight loss vs. what behavior tips might help someone do what they need to do to stick to CICO. The problem is when people seem to think that what worked for them will necessarily work for someone else or that because something did not work for them it cannot work for someone else.
What rubbed me the wrong way a bit about OP's post (although I thought the tips were generally sensible and well-intentioned) is that it suggested that someone not succeeding at losing weight was stupid and couldn't think of these things.It's not about debating CICO; it's about giving tips that could be helpful if you are having trouble staying within your calorie goals.
Yes, this is true and perhaps I misread the tone.So, I am going to throw here a couple of other tips:
- You don't have to give up your favourite food or meal. You just have to fit it within your daily goal. Try an alternative recipe, or learn to make it yourself if it was a processed or pre-made food.
- Find a type of exercise you enjoy. There is nothing worse than putting yourself through an exercise routine you hate.
- DO consider your macros. Even if you are in it just to look good, it will be helpful on the long run.
I like these. I'd add:
--It never has to be all or nothing. That Chicago-style pizza from Pequod (excellent place) probably will never fit easily in my daily calories doesn't mean I can never have it, it's just a rare treat. It's also not a "bad food," just an indulgent one for occasional indulgences (which I don't personally call cheat days, but also do not think dooms one to failure).
--You might not enjoy everything right away--lots of exercise seems unpleasant or uncomfortable when you are out of shape or just don't yet have confidence. Give it a real try or keep coming back to it, you might change your mind. Similarly, try to have an open mind about foods, and try lots of different veggies and ways to cook them.
--Think about how what you are eating makes you feel, and if you lack energy or get hungry and specific times of the day, don't be afraid to try new things and change things up. It's about what works for you.
And again all of these are based on what worked for me. They may not work for everyone or even for me always--I know that I don't have it all figured out.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSdVO7FKh7Q
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