Thoughts on 'Vanity Weight'
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mollymarionet wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Not exactly the best way to put things and not fully accurate either, if eating disorders are cought in young childhood they can recover and never have another problem. Anorexia isn't terminal cancer and negativity is never the way to go.
Not my fight. BUT WELL SAID!
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^^agree. I have been "recovering" for two years now. I don't engage in behaviors and I really do love myself and I finally have a realistic and healthy attitude on food, portions and my weight. However, if it were not for my child, given a bad day or enough stress I could go back to that in a heartbeat. [/quote]
I couldn't agree more. I was anorexic and bulimic and have been 'recovered' for two years as well. I have to be extremely careful that I don't slip back into my old habits. My pregnancy saved me, and my son is the sole reason I will never go back to ED. But it's a slippery slope and without him I'm not sure where I would be at this point. It's a lifelong illness, whether it's 'active' or not.
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If you're seriously recovering, you know only too well how silly the idea of "just a kg or two" would be. Girls with EDs don't stop at "just a few pounds" and if having an ED and going through recovery teaches you anything, it teaches you that.
The girl on that picture is very thin, has a gorgeous body, has no vanity weight to lose and is the envy of most women in America, including me. Five or ten more pounds wouldn't even change it.
Personally, I began my weight loss journey with a bit of a health crisis, so health was and remains my top priority. If I could be healthier at 250 pounds, I'd go back to it. I do like looking better! Except for the money I have to spend on clothes, I love all the many little changes to my life. All good.
I agree with you that for most people, the weight loss journey is more about vanity and less about health. They may get more into being healthy and they may not. But it's their life and their call to make. They aren't our problem. We are each our own problem.
There are guys in the gym with muscle dysmorphia, but many people who are pumping iron are not doing it because their muscles can never get big enough, just like many people who diet aren't anorexic. Many do it for health and a little vanity without getting crazy about it.0 -
Both. People don't have one weight at which they are healthy. They have a range. You can be at a healthy weight and still be healthy if you are 5 pounds less or 5 pounds more. Or maybe even 10 depending on your body type, height, etc.
Within that range, I say pick the place where you think you look best. I wouldn't fixate on a number...more just the look. If you are happy with how you look and know the weight is healthy, then stop there. If you think you look better a little lighter...and know you can lose it and still be at a healthy weight...then do that.0 -
I'm not sure your age but if it helps, I think as you get older it tends to become less of an issue for most women-- the vanity weight thing. Not that it ever goes away. But perspective changes and you begin to see that you really are good at any size and life becomes more about other things, often.I'm not going to tell you how much I weigh, sorry.
And I will not lose weight probably, just because I don't really have enough motivation and I hate calorie restricting. I could do it, and I could do it healthily, but I don't know if I can be bothered.
But as someone who is neither overly thin nor fat, I cannot help noticing how people my size are still constantly on about weightloss, even though it is unnecessary for them, or even if they're not actively trying to lose weight. Yes I think I would look 'better,' if I weighed less, and I don't think that's unusual. Take away the eating disorder and it's actually a totally normal thing for someone my age and weight to think. It's an unfortunate fact that we live in a society where women are made to feel so bad about themselves.
And that is why I was curious about whether people think vanity weight loss is still a good thing.
And I agree that it's too bad the women in the media tend to be underweight but I guess it's a byproduct of our affluence and perfectionism as a society, which do have their upsides as well. There are worse things to have to worry about than dropping two sizes, in the big picture across history and the world.
Congrats on your recovery and your healthy attitude! I agree that sometimes it's best to view ourselves as 'recovered', from whatever life issues.
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All I know is that it's extremely depressing to think that a struggle with food will be lifelong. I know relapse is always possible, but I refuse to believe that you carry the disorder around in your head for the rest of your life. I believe a neutral relationship with food is possible.
An eating disorder is only a manifestation of a deeper problem, some kind of profound self loathing. For me: thoughts of being a failure, of 'sucking,' of not being good enough. I think it's unlike being another kind of addict because it's possible separate those thoughts from weightloss, and detatch the significance of it held by the eating disorder. You can't detatch the being drunk from the alcohol.
You can change your relationship with food. Changing the reason(s) the unhealthy relationship with food started (and maintaining it) is another issue entirely.
Only you know yourself. As a psychologist, I can tell you I believe your thinking is dangerous for your health. A recovering ED person who thinks they can diet (for whatever reason), is like a recovering alcoholic thinking they can have one drink. They can't--it's a slippery, steep, downhill slope.
I would really encourage you to focus on health--the vanity will follow. Great health shows. When you are mentally and emotionally ready to see yourself as beautiful, vanity pounds and all, you will. Until you're in that place, the vanity pounds will make a difference in how you see yourself, which is an indication that you haven't achieved a neutral relationship with food.
Please take care of yourself. Your body and mind have been through so much already--give them some patience and grace.0 -
For me, anyway, weight loss is about appearance, not health. I'm overweight, but am already healthy. I'm concerned about how others see me. As you say, there's nothing unusual or wrong about that.
But in your case, you are already slim. You look healthy and great. Since you have a history of being underweight, I'd approach additional weight loss with caution. Focus on maintaining a healthy weight and not slipping back into disordered eating.
I also think you should discard your old "too small" clothes, just as I'm discarding my old "too big" ones. They don't fit you at a healthy weight. Find clothes you love that fit you now. And congratulations on your progress!0 -
Have you thought about thinking about stepping aside from "health" as a passive goal and "looks" as an even MORE passive goal? How about looking at what your body DOES and how you FEEL when doing it? Stop thinking about "being small" and taking up less space in the world. Think about what you can DO, how fast you can run, how STRONG you can be....try lifting heavier weights and building some muscles (which is important for the longterm health of all women, but especially those with a history of disordered eating...I know it seems like a long way off, but bone density will be a concern of yours before you know it, and weight lifting is the best protection you've got!)
Get rid of your scale. Get rid of your mirror, if it's a trigger for you. set better
goals! Be strong and powerful and BIG in the BEST WAYS.0 -
jenifer7teen wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
I am a recovered anorexic. it is absolutely possible. to think otherwise, or tell other people that once they are anorexic they will always be... that they are NOT recovered is crazy to me. If someone was depressed at one point, and believed they would never stabilize... especially into adulthood... is unfair and untrue. I've met many women who have reached their 30s without any relapses and with a healthy relationship with food and their body. not to diminish the struggle of recovery (which took a about nine years for me to fully achieve) but it is possible for many.
it is important for people to realize this, and not be trapped into thinking they are slaves to a label, even when they are symptom free or have experienced growth as a human being into greater health and personal insight! not all mental illnesses are lifetime sentences... what a shame so many believe this.
I find it interesting that you consider yourself 'recovered' but you are on here trying to lose weight and have a calorie goal of 1200. Recovering anorexics are advised to eat 2000+ calories a day and to NOT diet/try to lose weight.
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Spending a semester working as a student aide in ED nursing (or whatever your brief past experience was) doesn't make you qualified to give out advice, judgement or sweeping statements about ED treatment.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »Recovering anorexics are advised to ...
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Exactly what is this statement trying to accomplish?FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »jenifer7teen wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
I am a recovered anorexic. it is absolutely possible. to think otherwise, or tell other people that once they are anorexic they will always be... that they are NOT recovered is crazy to me. If someone was depressed at one point, and believed they would never stabilize... especially into adulthood... is unfair and untrue. I've met many women who have reached their 30s without any relapses and with a healthy relationship with food and their body. not to diminish the struggle of recovery (which took a about nine years for me to fully achieve) but it is possible for many.
it is important for people to realize this, and not be trapped into thinking they are slaves to a label, even when they are symptom free or have experienced growth as a human being into greater health and personal insight! not all mental illnesses are lifetime sentences... what a shame so many believe this.
I find it interesting that you consider yourself 'recovered' but you are on here trying to lose weight and have a calorie goal of 1200. Recovering anorexics are advised to eat 2000+ calories a day and to NOT diet/try to lose weight.
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I did not read a single reply here...I don't need to. You look great and are more than fine. BREATHE!! ANd address whatever causes you to feel you aren't great right now! A religious leader a counselor, a great friend, anyone. You are not seeing yourself as others do.0
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For me it's how it makes me feel. I've noticed that my body image is influenced mostly by how I physically feel and how the last workout went more than what my weight is. A normal BMI for me is 107.5-145 lbs and my 20 BMI is 116.5 lbs and longevity has been mostly associated with a BMI of 20-24.9 so I like to keep my weight around 116.5 lbs (currently 127.5 lbs... there was a man involved lol Now that I got the dating out of the way and we're engaged and I'm moving in I can go back to the regularly scheduled programming with some rearranging).
I've personally noticed once I get over 130 lbs I feel very sluggish and out of energy and under 120 lbs I feel absolutely fantastic and light. So my peak weight for me is between 116.5 lbs and 120 lbs (at 5'4"... I started at 230 lbs... that's another reason I hate going over 130 lbs, I lose out of the 100-lb club).0 -
I do it for both health and aesthetics, personally. I see nothing wrong with a little vanity. OP, you look great already, but as long as you know you can handle it and you can keep within a healthy BMI range, I guess it's up to you and your doctor to decide.
I'm at a BMI of 20.4. I think I'm about perfect, but if I lost a few more pounds, it wouldn't be a terrible thing - I just don't think it's necessary.
Personally, I don't think you need to lose more weight at all. Just work on body composition and I think you'll get the look you want at your current weight. Do you do any strength training? That could be the key for you. 0 -
Do you aim for health or aesthetics?
Honestly? Aesthetics, personally. And fwiw, I've also struggled with disordered eating habits in the past, and don't consider myself to have a healthy self-image, though I'm working on it. I don't think vanity weight loss is a good thing in that it most likely preoccupies waaaay more time than it should in our brains when there are more meaningful, important things to be concerned about.
I'm not in the 'how much farther should I go?' part of my weight loss yet, but I can see how it can be really difficult to distinguish if it's societal pressure or actual personal unhappiness with your weight in wanting to lose more. We're constantly reminded in the media how we can improve ourselves, even if there's no need to. It's exhausting![:\](https://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/resources/emoji/confused.png ":\")
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middlehaitch wrote: »Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
Yup, I am totally vain.
I have never hit an overweight BMI.
I have never hit an underweight BMI.
I prefer being at the lower end, so I lost 30 lb.
I want to look better in a bikini, so I am strength training.
I want to dance until 2, so I do aquafit.
I have never had a weight related health problem, and like that my vanity will help me retain both bone density LBM, and cardiovascular health.
Vanity weight is completely legitimate.
That is my reply to ES110791's question.
Happy holidays, h.
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Perhaps work on strength training, lifting, toning. This would perhaps help you lose inches, to help you fit into old clothes without worrying about losing kgs.0
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Citation required.
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LumberJacck wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Citation required.
@lumberJacck (I'll tag @WalkingAlong and @Kalikel too), if you were familiar with ED's or worked in mental health, you would know/understand that recovery from an illness (which has both physical and mental dimensions) cannot be defined. Many medical experts agree that full recovery from an eating disorder is elusive. While a patient may get better, many aspects of the disease continue to persist. So while they may be physically 'recovered', the cognitive symptoms don't necessarily get better… Hence why you can find hundreds of anorexics in recovery on MFP. Because they are still preoccupied with the calorie content of food.
Here's a study that concluded anorexia has a high rate of partial recovery but a low rate of full recovery. You won't be able to access the full study unless you pay for it or have the necessary login credentials (and sorry, but I'm not handing out my login information to give you the full study) but you get the general gist from the abstract. http://www.jaacap.com/article/S0890-8567(09)66531-X/abstract0 -
LumberJacck wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Citation required.
Here's some info that may answer your question.
There has been research about the genetic factors, specifically regarding anorexia. You can't escape your own biology. All you can do is establish healthy patterns and strategies to stay on track.
"The role of genetics on eating disorders is of particular interest to researchers. Our knowledge at this point indicates that genes load the gun and the environment pulls the trigger. We are far from knowing specific genes that cause eating disorders. There are a number of genes that work with environmental triggers. Dieting and loss of weight may influence the development of anorexia by turning on a gene that may influence an eating disorder. There are many cases of transgenerational eating disorder and twin studies which make this connection."
http://www.anad.org/get-information/about-eating-disorders/general-information/
Anorexia also doesn't respond to medical intervention effectively, which can make short-term and long-term treatment more challenging.
http://umm.edu/health/medical/reports/articles/eating-disorders
As with any addictive behavior, relapses can be expected, especially if the underlying issues that contributed to the behavior are still present or re-assert themselves:
http://www.nationaleatingdisorders.org/slips-lapses-and-relapses
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Thanks for the links (some of which I viewed) but I'm still not convinced that the rate of elimination type eating disorders at age 70 is the same at age 20, and the people who had it at age 70 also had it at age 20.0
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I'm almost reluctant to revive this thread, but I did want to say something that I didn't really see represented yet:
I don't think there's anything wrong with losing weight for vanity. Recently I think you hear a lot of emphasis on wanting to be strong and healthy, instead of thin, and while it comes from a good place I don't really see much of a problem with someone deciding they'd like to look thinner, provided that they're being healthy.
As someone with a history of disordered eating and body image problems, I know myself well enough to know that making that a goal for myself is not healthy. It doesn't go well. As for you, none of us know many details, and it's none of our business--so the decision of whether it's safe for you to have a vanity weight goal is up to you and your therapist/doctor. As an uninformed stranger I'd advise you to be very, very thoughtful about it.
I've found a lot of other ways to measure progress and feel prouder of myself. Health is a good one, especially the A1C test results. I like to measure physical performance, like steps per day, weight lifted, or that kind of thing--right now I've been trying to increase the height of my squat jumps and I'm having a blast. The most important part for me is keeping track of how I feel. A big motivator for me in my weight loss was that I was depressed and exhausted all the time. Things that used to be easy for me slowly became harder and harder. So one of my best successes is having a day where I feel energized and happy after a workout. I've tried to sort of "reprogram" myself to feel happy about that in the way that I do about seeing myself looking better in the mirror, and it's an ongoing struggle, but it gets easier and easier!0 -
IM ALL ABOUT IT!
I aim for strong AND for beautiful.
and not the beautiful that society or family wants me to have, but the part where *I FEEL BEAUTIFUL TO MYSELF*.
thats important to me.
my own opinion of how I look matters more than how I would look to my mother or cousin or frenemies.
GO FOR IT - you know to do it the healthy way - SO GO FOR IT SMARTLY!0 -
I struggle with this too. I'm at the top end of healthy for my height, but I don't like the way my body looks. I started running for Ragnar, then a half marathon, in which I attained my lowest weight as an adult. After the half marathon I found it hard to get back into running and gained all the weight back. Now, sometimes I run for the run, I like the feeling, I'm training for another half marathon, and it helps with my depression. But because I know that I lost weight training last time, I expect to do the same this time, and get disappointed when it doesn't happen. I try to focus on getting stronger, going further and feeling good, but I can't help thinking that I wish the scale would reflect my hard work.0
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Confused by previous post.
sarcasm...got it
romeo and juliet reference...got it
Still confused.0 -
Hearts_2015 wrote: »
Seriously???, because I think most people deep down don't care too much about health and it's all about the aesthetics.
I find much in your posts very concerneing...
I'm in it for the healthy, anything that comes along with is extra awesome! To me lifting is part of the 'healthy' phase though.
it's a valid point- most people don't want to be fat- then they couple that with being healthy- and there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to look fabulous.
I wish we would get away from this idea that wanting to feel good and look good was some sort of crime.
Seriously.
I look fabulous. I LOVE it- and guess what- because I know i look good- I'm confident - it's a self perpetuating cycle- looking good and confidence. And there is NOTHING wrong with it.
Secondly- I AM healthy!!!
SHOCKER!
I life- I'm fit- and I'm fabulous.
Win win everywhere.
OP- I don't think you need to lose weight- I think you need muscle- and to put on weight- in a controlled and efficient manner and rebuild yourself a different body- rather than just a smaller one than you have now.
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I'm all about performance. I want to be wherever my body wants to be to perform at its best for my sports (powerlifting and competitive Crossfit). I'm in recovery for bulimia and BED. I think that if you are still worried about vanity weight, you're not fully recovered. Find something that gives you worth that is unrelated to appearance or scale. Your BMI is fine, so it must be your perception that is off. You won't look better smaller. You'll just look different. If you like to see your bones poking out more, you still have an ED.0
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Big_Bob_Lob wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »mollymarionet wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Not exactly the best way to put things and not fully accurate either, if eating disorders are cought in young childhood they can recover and never have another problem. Anorexia isn't terminal cancer and negativity is never the way to go.
Every single psychologist/psychiatrist I've worked with who specializes in ED's has said they would never refer to a client as "recovered" because someone with an ED can relapse at any given time. Therefore, they are in recovery. Recovery from anorexia or bulimia or EDNOS is an ongoing, lifelong process.
As a former addict and alcoholic, I disagree with that particular opinion. I've always found it interesting how easily that idea was accepted. Granted, I've never worked with a psychologist, and I have no clinical background that gives my opinion much weight, I just find it convenient that by convincing people of that, they are basically ensuring that they are never out of work. It certainly benefits them if they can convince me that I can never get well.
If moderation can't be learned by those who have established compulsive patterns of abuse and over indulgence...why are any of us even here?
I'm with you Bob. I'm a recovered meth user, gambling addict, blah blah blah, and am in recovery for ED. I say in recovery for ED because I absolutely know I would never ever under any circumstances be addicted to gambling or meth again but am still new in my recovery for ED. I think it's a bunch of BS and a limitation/option we don't have to give ourselves.
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I personally always go for aesthetics. I've been in shape and thin before and loved how I looked. I love how I look in clothes now but I want to feel comfortable and look good naked. Health is a big motivator but the end goal is to look fabulous. :] As long as you have a healthy outlook of your body when you're at a healthy weight, and know that perfection may not be attainable because there is no such thing as perfect, then I think you're fine.0
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