Thoughts on 'Vanity Weight'
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I'm not going to tell you how much I weigh, sorry.
And I will not lose weight probably, just because I don't really have enough motivation and I hate calorie restricting. I could do it, and I could do it healthily, but I don't know if I can be bothered.
But as someone who is neither overly thin nor fat, I cannot help noticing how people my size are still constantly on about weightloss, even though it is unnecessary for them, or even if they're not actively trying to lose weight. Yes I think I would look 'better,' if I weighed less, and I don't think that's unusual. Take away the eating disorder and it's actually a totally normal thing for someone my age and weight to think. It's an unfortunate fact that we live in a society where women are made to feel so bad about themselves.
And that is why I was curious about whether people think vanity weight loss is still a good thing.
So many people are unaware that they can change their entire body composition simply by weight training. If you are unhappy with the way your body looks, I highly suggest looking into body recomposition. At this point, I believe trying to lose weight is too risky and I think you will agree that it is not worth spiraling down that tunnel again when the same results (if not better), can be achieved by lifting.0 -
I'll put in my 2 cents. First of all, you look fantastic as is. Second, I honestly think that for you at this weight the only improvement can be done by shaping your body with weight training. I don't believe that anyone would look at you and say that you could use losing some extra pounds. I wish you luck and confidence!0
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Health over vanity, always. The whole point should be about all the health benefits. It should be about YOU, not other people.0
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I have set my goal at the upper end of the healthy range for my age/height. That said, I have a second goal which is 10lbs lower but still within the healthy range. I would say that second goal is my vanity weight.0
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Well, if you don't want to share your weight, how about your BMI now and the BMI at the weight you want to be.0
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coming also from a disordered background I am aiming overall for health, but aesthetics is always going to be a big part of it, because I need to be able to be happy with myself it's an on going struggle. You need to do what you want to, and just be mindful & careful of relapses, ensuring you have a support network.0
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Big_Bob_Lob wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »mollymarionet wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Not exactly the best way to put things and not fully accurate either, if eating disorders are cought in young childhood they can recover and never have another problem. Anorexia isn't terminal cancer and negativity is never the way to go.
Every single psychologist/psychiatrist I've worked with who specializes in ED's has said they would never refer to a client as "recovered" because someone with an ED can relapse at any given time. Therefore, they are in recovery. Recovery from anorexia or bulimia or EDNOS is an ongoing, lifelong process.
As a former addict and alcoholic, I disagree with that particular opinion. I've always found it interesting how easily that idea was accepted. Granted, I've never worked with a psychologist, and I have no clinical background that gives my opinion much weight, I just find it convenient that by convincing people of that, they are basically ensuring that they are never out of work. It certainly benefits them if they can convince me that I can never get well.
If moderation can't be learned by those who have established compulsive patterns of abuse and over indulgence...why are any of us even here?
Actually in the industry of mental health we treat alcoholism & EDs as both mental illnesses, relapse is very possible after the point of 'recovery' and that is why they are lifelong. My mom is now a 7 year recovered alcoholic if she were to have a drink now she would relapse into a very damaging cycle, this is coming from her self awareness. She still struggles if there is alcohol in the house & we are very careful to ensure that alcohol isn't used in any ingredients as like chocolate or paté.
These both seriously are lifelong struggles for the vast majority of people unlucky enough to experience them. Most people are unable to recover without intervention, so well done to you! that is thoroughly impressive.
- to add, i'm in the UK, so we have no targets & are paid a fixed wage, nothing benefits us personally other than the recovery & well being of our patients/clients, who do not pay for medical care. (we being the NHS)0 -
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All I know is that it's extremely depressing to think that a struggle with food will be lifelong. I know relapse is always possible, but I refuse to believe that you carry the disorder around in your head for the rest of your life. I believe a neutral relationship with food is possible.
An eating disorder is only a manifestation of a deeper problem, some kind of profound self loathing. For me: thoughts of being a failure, of 'sucking,' of not being good enough. I think it's unlike being another kind of addict because it's possible separate those thoughts from weightloss, and detatch the significance of it held by the eating disorder. You can't detatch the being drunk from the alcohol.0 -
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I think that's a healthy attitude, as long as you are vigilant and self-aware enough to realize if you're slipping into unhealthy behaviors.All I know is that it's extremely depressing to think that a struggle with food will be lifelong. I know relapse is always possible, but I refuse to believe that you carry the disorder around in your head for the rest of your life. I believe a neutral relationship with food is possible.
An eating disorder is only a manifestation of a deeper problem, some kind of profound self loathing. For me: thoughts of being a failure, of 'sucking,' of not being good enough. I think it's unlike being another kind of addict because it's possible separate those thoughts from weightloss, and detatch the significance of it held by the eating disorder. You can't detatch the being drunk from the alcohol.
I don't think everyone harping on you is going to help you, so hugs to you!
I will ask, though, how do you feel about the way you look now? Do you think you look fit? Chubby? Fat? How do you feel about yourself? Strong? Healthy? I think the answers to these questions will in some way indicate if you have a healthy self-image.
I think you would benefit greatly from strength training -- not necessarily because your physique needs it, but it will help you view your body as strong and healthy rather than simply about aesthetics. Good luck to you.
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Trying to answer the original question: I think there's too much variance among individuals and even within one individual's lifetime to give a pat answer.
The bros hitting the weights at the gym, the 20somethings getting their bodies ready for the beach...they're only a small sample of the population.
I can answer for myself. When I was a teenager I was short and curvy -- 5'3" and about 115 lbs, about a size 4, and with a big butt. I felt FAT. I wanted more than anything to be tall and willowy. I took diet pills, starved, lived on black coffee and cigarettes, and prayed I would develop anorexia. Senior year I got down to 90 lbs and I was so proud! I passed out all the time, but that didn't matter. My jeans were falling off, my girlfriends were jealous of my collar bones, and guys were fawning all over me. College was the same...my main goal was to be skinny no matter what it took to stay there. Healthy wasn't exactly a main concern. I couldn't sustain the starvation diet and started yo-yoing all over the place...fad diets, obsessive exercise, lose 5, gain 15, repeat, etc. etc.
Fast forward 30 years: married, two kids. My highest weight ever was about 250 lbs --> anxiety, depression. I was over 200 lbs for about 15 years. No major health issues, but I knew it was just a matter of time before I would start having problems. I've seen some of my friends struggle with health problems, some weight related, others not. I watched my father die of cancer. I started to realize you can't take your health for granted. At 250 lbs I felt like an alien in my own body. I was always uncomfortable, always in pain. It's disgusting that I had to get so huge before something finally clicked, but there it is. We were on vacation one summer and I realized I just couldn't keep up with my kids and husband. They were all scrambling down a cliff to get to a beautiful beach below, and I was scared -- I didn't trust my body, my sense of balance was off, and I was afraid I'd break a bone and ruin everyone's vacation. So I stayed behind and hated myself. I think that was the tipping point. Also, having kids changes everything. They are more important than anything else in my life, and I didn't want to have a heart attack and leave them without a mother.
Now I'm 5'3", 175 lbs, about a size 14-16, (and sill have a big butt! ha). I'm not at all happy with my weight, aesthetically. I still cringe when I look in the mirror, and I hate buying clothes. I'd definitely like for that to change. I think 130 might look good on me, but I really have no idea. Maybe I'll stop at 140 and be happy at a size 8 or 10. I really don't know. Health-wise, my indicators (cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.) were never bad, so they haven't changed. But I don't smoke any more, I drink in moderation, I eat pretty healthy, and I exercise as much as I can. I actually enjoy it. My goals are more exercise than weight related...running a little faster, a little further, lifting a little heavier, etc. I'll never look like a model -- even if I were built like one, I'm 49 years old and getting older. My main desire is to be present for my kids and husband and to be active and enjoy life as much as I can.
Sorry for writing a novel. I'm at work and procrastinating. LOL0 -
I think you look beautiful and honestly I'm not sure you need to lose vanity pounds. Why don't you try lifting and see if that give you the "toned" look that you're probably after?
ETA: To answer the actual question... I don't think it's bad to want to lose a few vanity pounds as long as your health is number one priority. With an eating disordered background, I'd highly recommend consulting with your doctor before making any decision.
All the best to you!0 -
I'm also in recovery for anorexia...my last very bad relapse was 5 years ago but I've had plenty of smaller slips. I wouldn't ever say I'm 100% recovered. Even if I have no symptoms for months, I think I fundamentally view food differently to someone who is not eating disordered.
I've not weighed myself for over a year and it was the best thing for me. I focus on eating healthily and enough (I tend to track for a few weeks, get bored, stop, notice I'm eating too much junk/not balanced meals, track for awhile, stop, and so the cycle continues). I focus on things I can do exercise-wise--lift x amount, run x distance, rather than "hey I burned x calories". That way, if I lose some, then fine, but I don't see the weight go down on the scale and think "oh, why not another 1kg or 2kg more?" and then end back right where I was.0 -
Meh, I don't like vanity weight people because they're the ones most likely to get the most help and attention here. If you say you have 3lbs to lose or want to get that one extra ab to show people will pretty much line up around the block to help you. 50lbs overweight and having trouble? You're mostly out of luck. You get either "it's so easy!" or just ignored all together. So yeah, vanity weight people are bad.
I actually find the opposite happens. If you say you want abs I guess the weight lifters will help, but I've never seen anyone say 'I need to lose 3lbs!' and be well supported, because everyone knows that 3lbs will make no difference considering that daily fluctuations can be more than this. It's the same, mostly, for people who want to lose 10lbs on here. You'll find that people are more likely to help those who need to lose 50lbs than 10lbs.0 -
I've wondered what would happen if fit people went around and posted their weights on their foreheads. Assuming that the majority of the responses would be "You weigh that much?" or "You don't look like you weigh that much."
As to the OP, worrying about vanity pounds after claiming recovering from ED issue shows that you're mindset still lingers there.
Wishing you good luck in your future. Stay strong.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Hearts_2015 wrote: »
Seriously???, because I think most people deep down don't care too much about health and it's all about the aesthetics.
I find much in your posts very concerneing...
I'm in it for the healthy, anything that comes along with is extra awesome! To me lifting is part of the 'healthy' phase though.
Yeah, seriously. I don't believe the bros lifting in the gym are all that concerned about their health. They want to be 'ripped.' The girls signing up for 'Ahsey Bines Bikini Body Challenge' don't care about their health. They want the beach bikini body.
Most of the people I know who express a desire to lose weight or 'tone up,' are already a healthy weight and they only want to get slimmer for superficial reasons.
"Lose those lovehandles!" "Get ready for summer" "You best body EVER". Please. The weight loss industry is built on making people feel bad about themselves. If it was only aimed at people who genuinely need to lose weight for health reasons they would lose half the target consumer, and since the industry only appears to be growing i'd say they're getting business.
I agree that there's a dysfunctional relationship with food and body in the world around us. But here's the thing:
(1) These people who you see in your environment aren't being healthy. They are very mixed up people on an unhealthy path. You don't need to take them as your role models, ESPECIALLY post-recovery. Find people on a healthy path to use as role models. They are out there. They are on this thread trying to help you see a better way, but it seems like you are rejecting what they say.
(2) The people in your world aren't representative of what's "normal" for everyone in the world. Just representative of the "normal" people who influenced/encouraged your development of an eating disorder and who didn't change when you changed. They are the people that your formerly eating disordered self picked as friends. They are people that your mind--influenced by an eating disorder--wants to notice, to care about how they think, to LISTEN to... as they reinforce your desire to lose more weight.
My formerly binge eating and obese self has friends and family who all overeat, who think your skinny friends who are worried about their abs are completely ridiculous. My friends/family don't care about their abs, and only care about their health in an abstract way (as in "It would be nice to be healthy, but I can't seem to lose weight"). These were my role models, the friends my former self picked. Now I don't know how to relate to them. I have changed, but they haven't, and it is stressful sometimes to feel the clash between who I want to be and who they want me to be. AS for the people I notice on commercials.... they don't show those "trim your abs" and "lose weight' commercials during the shows I like to watch on TV. They show pizza commercials. And ads for drugs to fix all the problems caused by eating too much pizza.
I don't have those ads showing up on my Facebook either--mostly just ads for McDonalds and things related to other hobbies I have. I'm starting to see ads for hiking gear a lot, so maybe Facebook is catching up with me. I know facebook friends in a certain demographic and with a certain pattern of interests get those "get skinny" ads all the time because they comment on being bombarded with them.
To continue the alcoholic analogy, I know it is common for alcoholics in recovery to experience the same issue... they start to get sober, then go back to a the dysfunctional context in which their addiction developed. They have ads for bars and drinks popping up online! The shows they watch on TV have beer ads at every commercial! Their friends keep wanting to go out partying! At every Christmas party, someone is trying to stuff a drink in their hand because that's how you have fun, right? They go out to dinner with friends who pity them for being the only one drinking a plain coke. Their former self made (and was made by) this world, and it doesn't support the "new self" anymore.
I think you might be feeling some of the same stress, but with a different type of social group. Just realize that your formerly-unhealthy self created this social world (and that this world created your former self), so don't use it as a reference for what is right or healthy or normal. Develop a healthy vision of who you want to be and find some people and hobbies that support THAT. As for me, I wouldn't know that health-minded people even existed in the world if not for interacting with new people online and while pursuing fitness and nutrition-related hobbies (like joining running groups, taking healthy cooking classes at Whole Foods, joining a group of coworkers who organize wellness-related events for my workplace). The more I engage with a new social world that matches the person I want to be, the more I realize that other options exist. And the more I see the dysfunction in my old "normal" world.
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I confess! For me it is about how I look. The health benefits are a bonus!0
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So, i've gained about 6kg this year, coming from an eating disorder background. I'm still a healthy weight, sitting on BMI of about 20.5, and while I don't necessarily want to get back down to my old weight I wouldn't mind losing about 3kg. I'm recovered and I know I can do it in a healthy way now. But I know i'm healthy and it's unnecessary, really. It's just 'vanity weight,' so I keep wondering if I actually should make an effort or just accept myself.
I know in the end people will be like 'do what you want,' but JW people's thoughts. Do you aim for health or aesthetics?
At this point, my goal is the upper edge of healthy weight for my height. I have 18 more pounds to go to get there. Losing weight is a health choice right now. I know that I do want to have my waist and hips in the same clothing size and I'll probably look better when they are.
I don't know if when I am at a healthy weight I will be more concerned about appearance than health. I doubt it. I weighed 40 to 50 pounds less than my goal weight when I was younger and I didn't really feel attractive then or care what clothing size I wore. It wasn't until I was about the middle of the healthy weight range for my height that I felt that I looked my best. I could see myself trying to get to that point- about 20 more pounds- but I still wouldn't consider that a very vain weight loss goal. It is hard to even think of being at the point where I might view just 5 more pounds lost as being slightly more attractive. Not losing weight to fit into a dress one size too small or a bikini.0 -
Docbanana2002 wrote: »Hearts_2015 wrote: »
Seriously???, because I think most people deep down don't care too much about health and it's all about the aesthetics.
I find much in your posts very concerneing...
I'm in it for the healthy, anything that comes along with is extra awesome! To me lifting is part of the 'healthy' phase though.
Yeah, seriously. I don't believe the bros lifting in the gym are all that concerned about their health. They want to be 'ripped.' The girls signing up for 'Ahsey Bines Bikini Body Challenge' don't care about their health. They want the beach bikini body.
Most of the people I know who express a desire to lose weight or 'tone up,' are already a healthy weight and they only want to get slimmer for superficial reasons.
"Lose those lovehandles!" "Get ready for summer" "You best body EVER". Please. The weight loss industry is built on making people feel bad about themselves. If it was only aimed at people who genuinely need to lose weight for health reasons they would lose half the target consumer, and since the industry only appears to be growing i'd say they're getting business.
I agree that there's a dysfunctional relationship with food and body in the world around us. But here's the thing:
(1) These people who you see in your environment aren't being healthy. They are very mixed up people on an unhealthy path. You don't need to take them as your role models, ESPECIALLY post-recovery. Find people on a healthy path to use as role models. They are out there. They are on this thread trying to help you see a better way, but it seems like you are rejecting what they say.
(2) The people in your world aren't representative of what's "normal" for everyone in the world. Just representative of the "normal" people who influenced/encouraged your development of an eating disorder and who didn't change when you changed. They are the people that your formerly eating disordered self picked as friends. They are people that your mind--influenced by an eating disorder--wants to notice, to care about how they think, to LISTEN to... as they reinforce your desire to lose more weight.
My formerly binge eating and obese self has friends and family who all overeat, who think your skinny friends who are worried about their abs are completely ridiculous. My friends/family don't care about their abs, and only care about their health in an abstract way (as in "It would be nice to be healthy, but I can't seem to lose weight"). These were my role models, the friends my former self picked. Now I don't know how to relate to them. I have changed, but they haven't, and it is stressful sometimes to feel the clash between who I want to be and who they want me to be. AS for the people I notice on commercials.... they don't show those "trim your abs" and "lose weight' commercials during the shows I like to watch on TV. They show pizza commercials. And ads for drugs to fix all the problems caused by eating too much pizza. I don't have those ads showing up on my Facebook either--mostly just ads for McDonalds and things related to other hobbies I have. I'm starting to see ads for hiking gear a lot, so maybe Facebook is catching up with me. I know facebook friends in a certain demographic and with a certain pattern of interests get those "get skinny" ads all the time because they comment on being bombarded with them.
To continue the alcoholic analogy, I know it is common for alcoholics in recovery to experience the same issue... they start to get sober, then go back to a the dysfunctional context in which their addiction developed. They have ads for bars and drinks popping up online! The shows they watch on TV have beer ads at every commercial! Their friends keep wanting to go out partying! At every Christmas party, someone is trying to stuff a drink in their hand because that's how you have fun, right? They go out to dinner with friends who pity them for being the only one drinking a plain coke. Their former self made (and was made by) this world, and it doesn't support the "new self" anymore.
I think you might be feeling some of the same stress, but with a different type of social group. Just realize that your formerly-unhealthy self created this social world (and that this world created your former self), so don't use it as a reference for what is right or healthy or normal. Develop a healthy vision of who you want to be and find some people and hobbies that support THAT. As for me, I wouldn't know that health-minded people even existed in the world if not for interacting with new people online and while pursuing fitness and nutrition-related hobbies (like joining running groups, taking healthy cooking classes at Whole Foods, joining a group of coworkers who organize wellness-related events for my workplace). The more I engage with a new social world that matches the person I want to be, the more I realize that other options exist. And the more I see the dysfunction in my old "normal" world.
Thanks for taking time to share what you did, it's really benefiting me reading it as well! It makes so much sense, I'd never thought of it like this before.. This really breaks it down and explains our past behavior/friends and our new lifestyles and like you shared, how they can clash. 0 -
I am not in a position to comment on the ED part of the post, but the vanity vs health thing is relevant.
I'm all about health & function foremost(strength mainly, flexibility & conditioning too) I am pretty lean as is, however sometimes I'd like to just keep seeing how far I can get. It's all vanity because I'm already quite healthy.0 -
FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
I am a recovered anorexic. it is absolutely possible. to think otherwise, or tell other people that once they are anorexic they will always be... that they are NOT recovered is crazy to me. If someone was depressed at one point, and believed they would never stabilize... especially into adulthood... is unfair and untrue. I've met many women who have reached their 30s without any relapses and with a healthy relationship with food and their body. not to diminish the struggle of recovery (which took a about nine years for me to fully achieve) but it is possible for many.
it is important for people to realize this, and not be trapped into thinking they are slaves to a label, even when they are symptom free or have experienced growth as a human being into greater health and personal insight! not all mental illnesses are lifetime sentences... what a shame so many believe this.
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congratulations on your recovery! the longer you go living free (not just from behaviors but also from anorexic thoughts), I hope you realize that you can trust yourself even more to never go back. I can say honestly... about 6 years without any anorexic lapses... that i will never go back. I'd be more likely to just kill myself- my life would have to be THAT bad- I wouldn't even bother to starve myself! Anyway, i know there are those that might struggle all their lives, but there are also those that are lucky enough to walk away and live the rest of their lives recovered and free. now I just struggle with new things haha.FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »mollymarionet wrote: »FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Not exactly the best way to put things and not fully accurate either, if eating disorders are cought in young childhood they can recover and never have another problem. Anorexia isn't terminal cancer and negativity is never the way to go.
Every single psychologist/psychiatrist I've worked with who specializes in ED's has said they would never refer to a client as "recovered" because someone with an ED can relapse at any given time. Therefore, they are in recovery. Recovery from anorexia or bulimia or EDNOS is an ongoing, lifelong process.
^^agree. I have been "recovering" for two years now. I don't engage in behaviors and I really do love myself and I finally have a realistic and healthy attitude on food, portions and my weight. However, if it were not for my child, given a bad day or enough stress I could go back to that in a heartbeat.0 -
I would say that with a background of disordered eating, vanity weight loss is a very bad idea. It takes you back down a bad path - putting more attention on your food and body which is fuel for obsessiveness and restriction. In addition, you are likely not seeing yourself as other do so listening to what your mind tells you about your body is not going to be very helpful to you in the long run. I'm glad that you've settled at a very healthy weight - this will really help you stay in recovery. Enjoy all the benefits of recovery and focus as other have stated on building up all the other parts of your life.0
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FatFreeFrolicking wrote: »You are NOT recovered. Anorexics are never recovered. Once you are anorexic, you are anorexic for life. Just like an alcoholic. You are in recovery for the remaining years of your life.
Not sure why this is flagged, there's actually a lot of truth in it.
As someone with an eating disorder, I realize... dieting is not for me. Dieting can trigger the behaviors, as often times the behaviors are born from dieting. The same way one drink can trigger an alcoholic, one day of eating a 'healthy' 1600 calories can (and sometimes does) trigger me to restrict less, and less. Until I'm back at less than 1000. There is much debate about whether full recovery is possible. Some people believe in it. Many of us are a bit more realistic, and realize that while we can recover, we can never fully recover. Not in the sense that relapse is entirely impossible. I have heard stories from people who have been recovered for twenty years relapsing because they thought they could lose an extra five pounds the healthy way. Then five pounds wasn't enough, they had to lose ten.
Dieting is a behavior if you have an eating disorder, and it is best to abstain from it. The same way someone in recovery from bulimia should not purge, someone recovering from anorexia should not diet.
Work on maintaining, and tackle the reasons why you may feel you could or should lose that weight. From your picture, I don't think you have any weight to lose.0 -
Vanity, vanity, all is vanity.
Yup, I am totally vain.
I have never hit an overweight BMI.
I have never hit an underweight BMI.
I prefer being at the lower end, so I lost 30 lb.
I want to look better in a bikini, so I am strength training.
I want to dance until 2, so I do aquafit.
I have never had a weight related health problem, and like that my vanity will help me retain both bone density LBM, and cardiovascular health.
Vanity weight is completely legitimate.
That is my reply to ES110791's question.
Happy holidays, h.
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I think the fact that you think losing extra lbs on an already thin body is "vanity" weight is very telling. People come in all shapes and sizes and there is a range that is healthy and also beautiful. I hope you don't think that everyone, who isn't trying to be at the very lowest weight that their doctor would accept, is lacking in confidence and/or isn't considered "hot" by others. I also think that most people are motivated by vanity and health. For people who have had major health scares, health will rank a bit higher but vanity is still there big time. Yes, people who weight train look great but the training also makes them healthier, stronger and more confident. As others have suggested I think you should concentrate on lifting and other exercise instead of losing weight. A more holistic look at what constitutes health and good looks, that doesn't just focus on being as thin as possible, is in order.0
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Pattience, your response is motivating for me. I need to focus on more than weight, calories, etc. It is so easy to get back on eating-disordered thinking.0
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