Define "healthy" food...
Replies
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No....what people are saying is having a can of coke with a bowl of stew, that has veggies and proteins in it, is not considered unhealthy as I met all my macs and micros for the day, if I have room I will fit ice cream or a cookie or whatever.
Some are, but some are saying both are equally heatlhy foods becasue they both can be part of an overall healthy diet. They can't seem to separate the terms.
You can't calculate the health of one food over another in a complete diet, You have to look at the diet as a whole not just one particular food item
See. Here is an example that seems to suggest a can of coke is as healthy as a bowl of raw kale.
And I agree with it. My statement was probably not worded as accurately as it should have been.
This is the issue with having a nebulous term like 'healthy' or 'unhealthy'.0 -
Which thread is that?MoiAussi93 wrote: »
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Didn't say it was bad, but tried to clarify in a later post that it wasn't necessary. Meaning, there's still a fair amount of fat in the pizza as a whole and in my diet.JeffseekingV wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
You're missing it. If you saw the post I made earlier about the ingredients in Dominoes pizza, maybe it'd be easier for you to understand her point.sweetdixie92 wrote: »sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
oh really??? care to elaborate?
so if my macors are 35p/35c/30 fats and I hit them all with eggs, chicken, rice, bread, etc and then filled in rest of day with ice cream and some cookies, you are saying that is an unhealthy day just because I got 500 - 600 from ice cream and cookies...really?
As I said, look at the ingredients. That is, unless you're going with organic or natural. It's not necessarily the food itself that's the problem. Food colorings and artificial flavors? Preservatives and other chemicals they put in a lot of foods? No thank you.
First, all food has "chemicals" so unless you are drinking pure water you are ingesting *gasp* chemiclas.
That post you made actually made no sense. All you did was list ingredients in a pizza and pick what you thought was unhealthy. Which there was absolutely no reason why it would have been healthy.
If he's referencing the post I think, he posted the ingredients of something like Dominos and then posted the ingredients of his homemade versions. Then went on to explain why his was healthier than the other (IN HIS OPINION)
Exactly. Where he said full-fat mozzarella was bad, but never explained why...
Edit: Just saw Dominoes uses part skim cheese as well. If they don't even use it, and yet their pizza certainly has plenty of fat, I really see no need why I should use full fat.0 -
sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
you do realize you don't get bonus points for hitting macros right?
also good luck trying to bulk one day on that type of food.
I did it...in 2012...but it wasn't easy...and so much damn eating. My fat macros were really high to help me get there though...like 40-50% some days. (My food diary in 2012 is kind of comical.) 20 pounds over the course of nearly a year.
Not anything like my current bulk where I've added ~20 pounds in about four months. So much easier and more efficient.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No....what people are saying is having a can of coke with a bowl of stew, that has veggies and proteins in it, is not considered unhealthy as I met all my macs and micros for the day, if I have room I will fit ice cream or a cookie or whatever.
Some are, but some are saying both are equally heatlhy foods becasue they both can be part of an overall healthy diet. They can't seem to separate the terms.
Well, in that context, then I cannot see that it is incorrect statement.
Niether do I. I just think it's a cop-out.0 -
I am oddly fascinated by all of the animosity and poor grammar on this post.0
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Context....you seem to be missing it.0 -
cmasongreen wrote: »I am oddly fascinated by all of the animosity and poor grammar on this post.
Careful, mentioning grammar will actually get you a legit warning here. The type that puts you a step closer to a full forum ban.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
you do realize you don't get bonus points for hitting macros right?
also good luck trying to bulk one day on that type of food.
I did it...in 2012...but it wasn't easy...and so much damn eating. My fat macros were really high to help me get there though...like 40-50% some days. (My food diary in 2012 is kind of comical.) 20 pounds over the course of nearly a year.
Not anything like my current bulk where I've added ~20 pounds in about four months. So much easier and more efficient.
I think I remember you mentioning that a while back- you went like all dirty for your cut- and low carb clean for your bulk??
LOL- so silly now to look back- so much extra work!! LOL0 -
No, I'm really not.MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Context....you seem to be missing it.0 -
cmasongreen wrote: »I am oddly fascinated by all of the animosity and poor grammar on this post.
i noes it ben krazy
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »
I linked directly to it in another thread. Am I now obligated to link it every time somebody else brings it up for the rest of my life? LOL! Sorry...no.SingRunTing wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
You can either take my word for it or read the study yourself...that's how it works!!! LOL!MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Where do people come up with this kind of stuff^^^^ You want to reference studies but we have to go read the studies for ourselves? Lol
If you don't give people a link to the study or at the very least give the full title with authors and year so they can find the actual study you read, how can people read said study??
What other thread?
Apparently one that doesn't exist anymore.
And yet we are supposed to somehow know which study he is talking about....hmmm...sounds legit.
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Depending on the situation, it can be significant IMO. Comparing some commercial brands of ice-cream with homemade yogurt would yield a good bit of differences, IMO. Homemade yogurt can be loaded with probiotics, added sugar does not have to be as high as in commercial ice-cream, and it is also lower in lactose.Calcium, iron, Vitamins A, D, K, E, etc. are naturally occurring parts of nutrition in whole, unprocessed foods. You aren't going to find those quality micronutrients in pizza, ice cream, funnel cakes, candy bars, soda, etc. And, even if you do get some micronutrients in the ingredients used to make those foods, you will also get a huge dose of sodium (implicated in high blood pressure), saturated fats (implicated in cardiovascular diseases) and sugar (which has a whole slew of diet related health issues attributed with it).
A bonus: what sort of education or research do you have to assert this position? I'd love to know.
What's the difference between eating some ice cream or having a yogurt?
In that case, next we should compare some commercial brands of yogurt with homemade ice cream...because cherry-picking is so persuasive.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No....what people are saying is having a can of coke with a bowl of stew, that has veggies and proteins in it, is not considered unhealthy as I met all my macs and micros for the day, if I have room I will fit ice cream or a cookie or whatever.
Some are, but some are saying both are equally heatlhy foods becasue they both can be part of an overall healthy diet. They can't seem to separate the terms.
Well, in that context, then I cannot see that it is incorrect statement.
Niether do I. I just think it's a cop-out.
I'm 300 calories under my goal and zombies are getting ready to chase me. I have the choice of 300 calories of kale before I go or 300 calories of sugar...which do I eat? Sugar...it's faster releasing and keeps me from getting ate by zombies, therefore, sugar is healthier than kale in that instance....BOOM! BOOYAH!!
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JeffseekingV wrote: »sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
Can you elaborate.
ETA: lol...behind - was already asked. This thread is moving too fast to keep up.
it is the like the gift that keeps on giving...or maybe not ...
Can you detail the micronutrient importance as it pertains to your original post?
The point that I was trying to make was that dietary context matters. So if you hit your macro/micro/calorie target for the day but you have filled that in with say 400 calories of ice cream is that then "unhealthy" < this would also boil down to individual goals - losing fat, bulking, recomping, overall health, etc...
Got it. but in your original post, micronutrients and the fact that both were met, wasn't mentioned.
But in general, I agree with you above.
I'd also suggest that the micros/macros are being met but not overly exceeded. If you hit your nutrients then eat a good amount of junk foods or healthy (even though it would take a lot of something like broccoli to do it) on top of it, may not be a good idea.0 -
cmasongreen wrote: »I am oddly fascinated by all of the animosity and poor grammar on this post.
Careful, mentioning grammar will actually get you a legit warning here. The type that puts you a step closer to a full forum ban.
Did I say grammar? I meant...not that.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Depending on the situation, it can be significant IMO. Comparing some commercial brands of ice-cream with homemade yogurt would yield a good bit of differences, IMO. Homemade yogurt can be loaded with probiotics, added sugar does not have to be as high as in commercial ice-cream, and it is also lower in lactose.Calcium, iron, Vitamins A, D, K, E, etc. are naturally occurring parts of nutrition in whole, unprocessed foods. You aren't going to find those quality micronutrients in pizza, ice cream, funnel cakes, candy bars, soda, etc. And, even if you do get some micronutrients in the ingredients used to make those foods, you will also get a huge dose of sodium (implicated in high blood pressure), saturated fats (implicated in cardiovascular diseases) and sugar (which has a whole slew of diet related health issues attributed with it).
A bonus: what sort of education or research do you have to assert this position? I'd love to know.
What's the difference between eating some ice cream or having a yogurt?
In that case, next we should compare some commercial brands of yogurt with homemade ice cream...because cherry-picking is so persuasive.
dude... what page are you on. That was like, so last hour or two.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Where do people come up with this kind of stuff^^^^ You want to reference studies but we have to go read the studies for ourselves? Lol
Indeed. "Studies prove I am right." "What studies?" "You have to find them yourself."
I'm quickly becoming a proponent for mandatory logic and argumentative debate classes for all.0 -
the zombie analogy- wins every time.Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No....what people are saying is having a can of coke with a bowl of stew, that has veggies and proteins in it, is not considered unhealthy as I met all my macs and micros for the day, if I have room I will fit ice cream or a cookie or whatever.
Some are, but some are saying both are equally heatlhy foods becasue they both can be part of an overall healthy diet. They can't seem to separate the terms.
Well, in that context, then I cannot see that it is incorrect statement.
Niether do I. I just think it's a cop-out.
I'm 300 calories under my goal and zombies are getting ready to chase me. I have the choice of 300 calories of kale before I go or 300 calories of sugar...which do I eat? Sugar...it's faster releasing and keeps me from getting ate by zombies, therefore, sugar is healthier than kale in that instance....BOOM! BOOYAH!!
I'm also going to be deeply devastated I"m leaving in 10 min. When I get done with dance tonight and go rush home to the dimly lit room where my computer sits- I fear I'll NEVER be able to catch up!!!
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »
At not wasting my time providing links to people who have no genuine interest in them? Actually, I'm pretty good at that.MoiAussi93 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
because if you are going to make outrageous claims you should have something to back them up with ..its not my job to prove a negative.
Saying sugar is linked to a higher risk of death by heart disease is not outrageous. Please prove that it is outrageous. Where is your link?
You aren't very good at this are you?
But I do have a genuine interest.0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »
Where do people come up with this kind of stuff^^^^ You want to reference studies but we have to go read the studies for ourselves? Lol
Indeed. "Studies prove I am right." "What studies?" "You have to find them yourself."
I'm quickly becoming a proponent for mandatory logic and argumentative debate classes for all.
Do we have to pass the class, or just show up to get an A?0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
Can you elaborate.
ETA: lol...behind - was already asked. This thread is moving too fast to keep up.
it is the like the gift that keeps on giving...or maybe not ...
Can you detail the micronutrient importance as it pertains to your original post?
The point that I was trying to make was that dietary context matters. So if you hit your macro/micro/calorie target for the day but you have filled that in with say 400 calories of ice cream is that then "unhealthy" < this would also boil down to individual goals - losing fat, bulking, recomping, overall health, etc...
Got it. but in your original post, micronutrients and the fact that both were met, wasn't mentioned.
But in general, I agree with you above.
yea, I mentioned it later on like page 1 but I left it out of the original post...
maybe that is where some folks got confused...0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that some foods are not healthier than others.
It would be similarly ludicrous to suggest that someone cannot be HEALTHY and eat UNHEALTHY foods sometimes.
However, a person cannot be HEALTHY and eat ONLY EXCLUSIVELY UNHEALTHY foods. (capitals for emphasis, not sass.)
Here is my simplified example:
Op said something along the lines of "I've hit my macros/micros for the day, why can't I have a donut?" No one is saying you can't. Go right ahead. Enjoy.
But if donuts were ALL you ate, you'd get pretty sick pretty quickly even if you ate them within a calorie limit. Now, in the context of WEIGHT LOSS, you would still lose weight eating 1000 calories of donuts per day and nothing else. But you would also be hungry, iron deficient, calcium deficient, protein deficient, etc.
If you eat a relatively balanced diet there is absolutely no reason you can't indulge in unhealthy treats. But suggesting that in the abstract a can of coke is as healthy as a bowl of raw kale is downright silly. I think most of the people suggesting this are trying to use semantics to make a controversial argument and fluff some feathers.
Someone a while back brought up the recommend diet for women during pregnancy, and it was dismissed as "well that's one of the only times it is reasonable to consider those things." I understand pregnant women need a greater amount of certain nutrients, like folic acid, etc, but I don't understand the logic of dismissing the implications of eating a better diet during pregnancy. Think about it this way- if you wouldn't want it going into the body of your growing child, why would you want it going into your own body? My personal answer? I don't, but I'm still going to have treats occasionally when I want to.
Also, and this is an aside to the main point, given that this is a weight loss website I think it is important to note that it is MUCH easier to overeat on UNHEALTHY foods for most people. Most (not all, but most) people to not become obese by eating a diet comprised solely of HEALTHY foods. That is something that I think deserves consideration in this debate.
This whole debate is a little like saying the following: Is smoking healthy? NO. Can a smoker BE a healthy person? YES. What determines whether or not that individual ends up dying at a young age of cancer? Who knows, it is a toss up. Some smokers will live to be 100. But many of us feel like we'd rather not take the risk.
why is the healthy eating crews immediate fall back to ALWAYS build a straw man argument about having 100% of your diet from donuts. No one is advocating that.
so if I eat kale, and ice cream and I have fulfilled micro/macro/calorie goals does that convert the ice cream from unhealthy to healthy?
No, that is absurd. Ice cream is still an unhealthy FOOD, but if it is part of an OVERALL HEALTHY DIET then it is not at all a problem to have it. I'm not sure how you are not getting that, I am not the first person to explain it.
Name something in it that is inherently detrimental to health.
trans fat
At what dosage though?
Irrelevant!
You must choose...either a month of eating nothing but transfat or nothing but kale.
(As if you can even find foods rich in transfats now. Well, I mean, except for the naturally occurring transfats, but even those are relatively low.)0 -
Im p sure its healthy because of the nutrients, vitamins, and what not there is more of it in fish, veggies, than it there are in snacks and icecream. They also help ur organs for some reason. But when it comes to calories then it wouldnt matter if you ate a bowl of veggies or icecream if you end up with the same amount of calories0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
You're missing it. If you saw the post I made earlier about the ingredients in Dominoes pizza, maybe it'd be easier for you to understand her point.sweetdixie92 wrote: »sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
oh really??? care to elaborate?
so if my macors are 35p/35c/30 fats and I hit them all with eggs, chicken, rice, bread, etc and then filled in rest of day with ice cream and some cookies, you are saying that is an unhealthy day just because I got 500 - 600 from ice cream and cookies...really?
As I said, look at the ingredients. That is, unless you're going with organic or natural. It's not necessarily the food itself that's the problem. Food colorings and artificial flavors? Preservatives and other chemicals they put in a lot of foods? No thank you.
First, all food has "chemicals" so unless you are drinking pure water you are ingesting *gasp* chemiclas.
That post you made actually made no sense. All you did was list ingredients in a pizza and pick what you thought was unhealthy. Which there was absolutely no reason why it would have been healthy.
Was Sodium Bicarbonate the toxin?0 -
i got bail for a bit ...yall play nice and thanks for making this one epic!!!0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
You're missing it. If you saw the post I made earlier about the ingredients in Dominoes pizza, maybe it'd be easier for you to understand her point.sweetdixie92 wrote: »sweetdixie92 wrote: »So if I get 500 to 600 calories from ice cream and cookies to fill in my diet, does that make me less healthy than the person that is getting 75% of their calories from fish, rice, and vegetables?
Yes. Just look at the ingredient list.
Where your nutrients, fat, carbs, etc. are coming from do matter.
oh really??? care to elaborate?
so if my macors are 35p/35c/30 fats and I hit them all with eggs, chicken, rice, bread, etc and then filled in rest of day with ice cream and some cookies, you are saying that is an unhealthy day just because I got 500 - 600 from ice cream and cookies...really?
As I said, look at the ingredients. That is, unless you're going with organic or natural. It's not necessarily the food itself that's the problem. Food colorings and artificial flavors? Preservatives and other chemicals they put in a lot of foods? No thank you.
First, all food has "chemicals" so unless you are drinking pure water you are ingesting *gasp* chemiclas.
That post you made actually made no sense. All you did was list ingredients in a pizza and pick what you thought was unhealthy. Which there was absolutely no reason why it would have been healthy.
Was Sodium Bicarbonate the toxin?
Pretty sure that was someone else. Could be wrong though.0 -
If you did, you would research the issue yourself. It's really not that hard. You obviously have internet access. If you don't care enough to research it, why should I do it for you?MoiAussi93 wrote: »At not wasting my time providing links to people who have no genuine interest in them? Actually, I'm pretty good at that.
But I do have a genuine interest.
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squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »squirrelzzrule22 wrote: »It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that some foods are not healthier than others.
It would be similarly ludicrous to suggest that someone cannot be HEALTHY and eat UNHEALTHY foods sometimes.
However, a person cannot be HEALTHY and eat ONLY EXCLUSIVELY UNHEALTHY foods. (capitals for emphasis, not sass.)
Here is my simplified example:
Op said something along the lines of "I've hit my macros/micros for the day, why can't I have a donut?" No one is saying you can't. Go right ahead. Enjoy.
But if donuts were ALL you ate, you'd get pretty sick pretty quickly even if you ate them within a calorie limit. Now, in the context of WEIGHT LOSS, you would still lose weight eating 1000 calories of donuts per day and nothing else. But you would also be hungry, iron deficient, calcium deficient, protein deficient, etc.
If you eat a relatively balanced diet there is absolutely no reason you can't indulge in unhealthy treats. But suggesting that in the abstract a can of coke is as healthy as a bowl of raw kale is downright silly. I think most of the people suggesting this are trying to use semantics to make a controversial argument and fluff some feathers.
Someone a while back brought up the recommend diet for women during pregnancy, and it was dismissed as "well that's one of the only times it is reasonable to consider those things." I understand pregnant women need a greater amount of certain nutrients, like folic acid, etc, but I don't understand the logic of dismissing the implications of eating a better diet during pregnancy. Think about it this way- if you wouldn't want it going into the body of your growing child, why would you want it going into your own body? My personal answer? I don't, but I'm still going to have treats occasionally when I want to.
Also, and this is an aside to the main point, given that this is a weight loss website I think it is important to note that it is MUCH easier to overeat on UNHEALTHY foods for most people. Most (not all, but most) people to not become obese by eating a diet comprised solely of HEALTHY foods. That is something that I think deserves consideration in this debate.
This whole debate is a little like saying the following: Is smoking healthy? NO. Can a smoker BE a healthy person? YES. What determines whether or not that individual ends up dying at a young age of cancer? Who knows, it is a toss up. Some smokers will live to be 100. But many of us feel like we'd rather not take the risk.
why is the healthy eating crews immediate fall back to ALWAYS build a straw man argument about having 100% of your diet from donuts. No one is advocating that.
so if I eat kale, and ice cream and I have fulfilled micro/macro/calorie goals does that convert the ice cream from unhealthy to healthy?
No, that is absurd. Ice cream is still an unhealthy FOOD, but if it is part of an OVERALL HEALTHY DIET then it is not at all a problem to have it. I'm not sure how you are not getting that, I am not the first person to explain it.
Name something in it that is inherently detrimental to health.
Arsenic, but that's what I add for people that make me grumpy.
In ice cream? wtf brands are you buying
For people I don't like? Dryers, than I add the arsenic. lol.
why would you give them dryers i'd purchase the store generic brand? although i've heard if you really want to do in with someone you get them ben and jerrys the sanctimonious hypocrisy will kill anyone
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
No....what people are saying is having a can of coke with a bowl of stew, that has veggies and proteins in it, is not considered unhealthy as I met all my macs and micros for the day, if I have room I will fit ice cream or a cookie or whatever.
Some are, but some are saying both are equally heatlhy foods becasue they both can be part of an overall healthy diet. They can't seem to separate the terms.
Well, in that context, then I cannot see that it is incorrect statement.
Niether do I. I just think it's a cop-out.
You agree with the statement, but you think its a cop out? In what way?0
This discussion has been closed.
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