Is this rude, or am I just exaggerating the issue

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Replies

  • magsmichelle
    magsmichelle Posts: 34 Member
    DavPul wrote: »
    you paid for the right to use one machine. they paid for the right to use one machine. you don't get to dictate which machine they exercise that right upon. they can't use yours.....and that's it. everything else is fair game. you don't get to get the screen showing Wheel of Fortune and force everyone else to other side of the room to watch CNBC while they whittle away an hour on a deathmill.

    feel free to run outside if you want to be alone

    You totally missed where I have asthma and cannot breathe when one of my triggers is present..it had nothing to do with being alone it had everything to do with her smell flared up my asthma, and I couldn't really breathe.

  • Oi_Sunshine
    Oi_Sunshine Posts: 819 Member
    Jennloella wrote: »
    Jennloella wrote: »
    it's annoying whether they smell or not. And yes smokers reek, no matter how careful they are. I can always tell if my father in law has been in my home, I hate it and he is no longer allowed on upholstered furniture, kitchen chairs for him. I can't stand the smell.

    Wow... I don't like the smell either, but I would just Febreze my chairs after. Seems really rude to your F-I-L.

    nah it's rude to make my furniture stink, my babies don't need to inhale the residual stink either. I hate febreeze. don't smoke before you come over, change your shirt, wash your hands, no smoking in my home or in my yard. those are the rules! I totally have a right to control the quality of air in my home......

    Some people can't handle synthetic scents like Febreze either. Plus the smell of Febreze just let's people know that there's something that stinks in the room and an attempted cover-up.
  • deluxmary2000
    deluxmary2000 Posts: 981 Member
    I personally would avoid using a machine next to someone if another one was open. As a smoker and an adult it is my decision to smoke, just like some people choose to overload on spray and that God awful Axe stuff. I'm not oblivious to the fact I smell like a smoker, but it's my choice, so in public I could really give two *kitten* whether someone is bothered or not. I've quit every time I was pregnant and nursing but I always start back up because I want to. I know all the risks and have seen the negative effects of smoking due to the complications my grandfather had from being a life long smoker. I worked in the healthcare field for eight years and I've done my research. It's something that I enjoy and when I stop enjoying it I'll quit. I'm not one to get in someone's personal space anyway if I don't have to. I choose not to smoke in my house and I also am respectful of other's rules on smoking. I don't smoke in public places unless it is a designated zone. Not all smokers are horrible people, they just smell like smokers, which obviously offends tons of people on here. I hate the smell of alcohol and beer and I choose not to drink anymore but I don't chastise anyone who smells like it. God forbid an adult makes their own decisions that doesn't agree with everyone.

    Does the smell of alcohol and beer affect your breathing? can you die because your lungs closed up due to the smell?
    Not everyone can tolerate the smell of smoke. it isn't just a matter of opinion for some people, it is a matter of being able to breathe, you know to stay alive.

    Ok, NOW you're being overly dramatic.
    Yes, what she did was mildly annoying. I'm sure she didn't realize that the faintest whiff of cigarettes would put you in the morgue.
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    hi! can you explain your post? i didn't get it, english it's not my primary lenguage and basically everything i know was learn from watching friends/everybody loves Raymond, so i miss a lot of fun post because of it
    Ignore it. It's probably some jab at your English, though why it references reading, I have no idea.

    Good job on your English. Post away. It's against the rules to correct others on language issues. :)
  • debubbie
    debubbie Posts: 767 Member
    I had someone today get on a treadmill beside me that smelled like she had bathed in her perfume. It smelled so bad! I somehow finished my workout, but I had a headache from the smell.
  • dbanks80
    dbanks80 Posts: 3,685 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    hi! can you explain your post? i didn't get it, english it's not my primary lenguage and basically everything i know was learn from watching friends/everybody loves Raymond, so i miss a lot of fun post because of it

    If you re-read the OP post the woman was not smoking while exercising. She took off her jacket and she smelled of smoke which it says in her post.

  • FatFreeFrolicking
    FatFreeFrolicking Posts: 4,252 Member
    edited January 2015
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    Did it cross your mind that maybe English isn't her first language?

  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    DavPul wrote: »
    you paid for the right to use one machine. they paid for the right to use one machine. you don't get to dictate which machine they exercise that right upon. they can't use yours.....and that's it. everything else is fair game. you don't get to get the screen showing Wheel of Fortune and force everyone else to other side of the room to watch CNBC while they whittle away an hour on a deathmill.

    feel free to run outside if you want to be alone

    You totally missed where I have asthma and cannot breathe when one of my triggers is present..it had nothing to do with being alone it had everything to do with her smell flared up my asthma, and I couldn't really breathe.

    so....having asthma means you get to dictate machine usage beyond the one that you're on? or does it mean that you can't run outside?

    feel free to buy your own treadmill and use it in the comfort and privacy of your own home.
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    hi! can you explain your post? i didn't get it, english it's not my primary lenguage and basically everything i know was learn from watching friends/everybody loves Raymond, so i miss a lot of fun post because of it
    Ignore it. It's probably some jab at your English, though why it references reading, I have no idea.

    Good job on your English. Post away. It's against the rules to correct others on language issues. :)

    it's not a jab at their ESL. the OP said the other person smell of smoke, not that they were smoking while on the equipment. that's what he was taking a cheap shot at.
  • Hollywood_Porky
    Hollywood_Porky Posts: 491 Member
    That is so gross. I would've been offended - enough to move to another treadmill. Maybe it's not worth the conversation out loud, but maybe discussing to club staff and moving away from her would be good moves. Sorry to hear about that. Yuck!
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    edited January 2015
    I personally would avoid using a machine next to someone if another one was open. As a smoker and an adult it is my decision to smoke, just like some people choose to overload on spray and that God awful Axe stuff. I'm not oblivious to the fact I smell like a smoker, but it's my choice, so in public I could really give two *kitten* whether someone is bothered or not. I've quit every time I was pregnant and nursing but I always start back up because I want to. I know all the risks and have seen the negative effects of smoking due to the complications my grandfather had from being a life long smoker. I worked in the healthcare field for eight years and I've done my research. It's something that I enjoy and when I stop enjoying it I'll quit. I'm not one to get in someone's personal space anyway if I don't have to. I choose not to smoke in my house and I also am respectful of other's rules on smoking. I don't smoke in public places unless it is a designated zone. Not all smokers are horrible people, they just smell like smokers, which obviously offends tons of people on here. I hate the smell of alcohol and beer and I choose not to drink anymore but I don't chastise anyone who smells like it. God forbid an adult makes their own decisions that doesn't agree with everyone.

    Does the smell of alcohol and beer affect your breathing? can you die because your lungs closed up due to the smell?
    Not everyone can tolerate the smell of smoke. it isn't just a matter of opinion for some people, it is a matter of being able to breathe, you know to stay alive.

    umm....do you have a doctor's note? because a deadly reaction to the mere whiff of cigarrete smoke.....well, i guess i haven't seen everything, so sure, why not?

    but....it would seem to me that you would need to take extra precautions for you needs, not that the public at large has to take special precautions just in case you're the one person in 20 million that immediately seizes up and dies at the smell of a pack of Kools



    ETA: i'm going to go out on a limb and say the answer to the question in the title of this thread is "yes".
  • lynn1982
    lynn1982 Posts: 1,439 Member
    I don't think the person who took the machine next to you is being "rude" but I also don't think you're exaggerating the overall issue. People can take whatever machine they like. I am very picky about the treadmills at my gym and if two in particular are not taken, I will use them regardless of whether there is someone next to them and lots of other empty machines. The lighting is just better and they are better positioned in front of the televisions.

    I am going to take a wild guess here and suggest that the person who smelled of smoke probably does not know that he/she smells of smoke. I don't think the person did it on purpose to bother you... but I also understand where you're coming from. I had to leave a spin class (it was full, so I couldn't switch bikes) because the woman next to me reeked of smoke. She's a nice woman and we often chat, and she always stinks, but for some reason on that day my lungs couldn't take it. I truly don't think she knows how bad she smells though.
  • lynn1982
    lynn1982 Posts: 1,439 Member
    That is so gross. I would've been offended - enough to move to another treadmill. Maybe it's not worth the conversation out loud, but maybe discussing to club staff and moving away from her would be good moves. Sorry to hear about that. Yuck!

    Out of curiosity, and I'm being completely serious, what is the OP supposed to discuss with club staff about? Should the staff tell this member not to smoke in the privacy of his/her own home?
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    DavPul wrote: »
    DavPul wrote: »
    you paid for the right to use one machine. they paid for the right to use one machine. you don't get to dictate which machine they exercise that right upon. they can't use yours.....and that's it. everything else is fair game. you don't get to get the screen showing Wheel of Fortune and force everyone else to other side of the room to watch CNBC while they whittle away an hour on a deathmill.

    feel free to run outside if you want to be alone

    You totally missed where I have asthma and cannot breathe when one of my triggers is present..it had nothing to do with being alone it had everything to do with her smell flared up my asthma, and I couldn't really breathe.

    so....having asthma means you get to dictate machine usage beyond the one that you're on? or does it mean that you can't run outside?

    feel free to buy your own treadmill and use it in the comfort and privacy of your own home.

    Dave, can't you see in the OP where it triggered her asthma and she had an attack and was hospitalized?

    It might be in between the lines "the smell bothered me".
  • DavPul
    DavPul Posts: 61,406 Member
    DavPul wrote: »
    DavPul wrote: »
    you paid for the right to use one machine. they paid for the right to use one machine. you don't get to dictate which machine they exercise that right upon. they can't use yours.....and that's it. everything else is fair game. you don't get to get the screen showing Wheel of Fortune and force everyone else to other side of the room to watch CNBC while they whittle away an hour on a deathmill.

    feel free to run outside if you want to be alone

    You totally missed where I have asthma and cannot breathe when one of my triggers is present..it had nothing to do with being alone it had everything to do with her smell flared up my asthma, and I couldn't really breathe.

    so....having asthma means you get to dictate machine usage beyond the one that you're on? or does it mean that you can't run outside?

    feel free to buy your own treadmill and use it in the comfort and privacy of your own home.

    Dave, can't you see in the OP where it triggered her asthma and she had an attack and was hospitalized?

    It might be in between the lines "the smell bothered me".

    good catch. i totally missed that. i should have figured it out by the end where she also threw in, "it really annoyed me". obviously this was a life or death situation. how could i be so callous?
  • karyabc
    karyabc Posts: 830 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    hi! can you explain your post? i didn't get it, english it's not my primary lenguage and basically everything i know was learn from watching friends/everybody loves Raymond, so i miss a lot of fun post because of it
    Ignore it. It's probably some jab at your English, though why it references reading, I have no idea.

    Good job on your English. Post away. It's against the rules to correct others on language issues. :)

    hi! thanks. i get the you don't belong here feeling insecurity a lot and try a lot to make my self as clear as i can but apparently i read wrong the post and thought the OP was talking about a lady who was smoking while using the machine
  • dbanks80
    dbanks80 Posts: 3,685 Member
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    Did it cross your mind that maybe English isn't her first language?

    She typed out a well thought out understandable response. She can go back RE-READ the OP post. To think that someone would smoke next to someone on the TM I for one would go back and re-read the OP to make sure I am reading it correctly since it sounds so absurd.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    DavPul wrote: »
    DavPul wrote: »
    DavPul wrote: »
    you paid for the right to use one machine. they paid for the right to use one machine. you don't get to dictate which machine they exercise that right upon. they can't use yours.....and that's it. everything else is fair game. you don't get to get the screen showing Wheel of Fortune and force everyone else to other side of the room to watch CNBC while they whittle away an hour on a deathmill.

    feel free to run outside if you want to be alone

    You totally missed where I have asthma and cannot breathe when one of my triggers is present..it had nothing to do with being alone it had everything to do with her smell flared up my asthma, and I couldn't really breathe.

    so....having asthma means you get to dictate machine usage beyond the one that you're on? or does it mean that you can't run outside?

    feel free to buy your own treadmill and use it in the comfort and privacy of your own home.

    Dave, can't you see in the OP where it triggered her asthma and she had an attack and was hospitalized?

    It might be in between the lines "the smell bothered me".

    good catch. i totally missed that. i should have figured it out by the end where she also threw in, "it really annoyed me". obviously this was a life or death situation. how could i be so callous?

    If they kicked out the people in the gym that smelled ...
  • karyabc
    karyabc Posts: 830 Member
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    Did it cross your mind that maybe English isn't her first language?

    She typed out a well thought out understandable response. She can go back RE-READ the OP post. To think that someone would smoke next to someone on the TM I for one would go back and re-read the OP to make sure I am reading it correctly since it sounds so absurd.

    you know thank you because i've realize my mistake and on the "absurd" thing like i said i assume that was a American acceptable thing to do and i post it, might be news to you but there a lot of cultural differences out there and things the would sound absurd to you is quite acceptable in other cultures .
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    Did it cross your mind that maybe English isn't her first language?

    She typed out a well thought out understandable response. She can go back RE-READ the OP post. To think that someone would smoke next to someone on the TM I for one would go back and re-read the OP to make sure I am reading it correctly since it sounds so absurd.

    you know thank you because i've realize my mistake and on the "absurd" thing like i said i assume that was a American acceptable thing to do and i post it, might be news to you but there a lot of cultural differences out there and things the would sound absurd to you is quite acceptable in other cultures .

    I've yet to see a gym where smoking is ok in any country.
    Although my gym, in Germany, does serve beer.
  • Cranquistador
    Cranquistador Posts: 39,744 Member
    Running? Not even once.
  • karyabc
    karyabc Posts: 830 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    Did it cross your mind that maybe English isn't her first language?

    She typed out a well thought out understandable response. She can go back RE-READ the OP post. To think that someone would smoke next to someone on the TM I for one would go back and re-read the OP to make sure I am reading it correctly since it sounds so absurd.

    you know thank you because i've realize my mistake and on the "absurd" thing like i said i assume that was a American acceptable thing to do and i post it, might be news to you but there a lot of cultural differences out there and things the would sound absurd to you is quite acceptable in other cultures .

    I've yet to see a gym where smoking is ok in any country.
    Although my gym, in Germany, does serve beer.

    you see that where i live would be in the absurd things book , the most you can get in my country is a protein shake and a granola bar

  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    karyabc wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    dbanks80 wrote: »
    karyabc wrote: »
    :o wait what!?? i just really?? smoking while on the gym plus using a machine? oh god i must sound so silly but i have ever ever seeing that and i didn't think that was possible, i don't know i would be so upset and in shock i suppose although i live outside the U.S so i'll assume that it's consider quite normal there.

    ps: to the OP above :( of course everyone should respect other people choices BUT my grandma die of lung cancer, she smoke her whole life and when she got to her 50 or 60 she quit.. 15 years later ---) lung cancer, love her and miss her like hell but boy that was a selfish adult decision she did

    Reading is funde.....Oh never mind.

    Did it cross your mind that maybe English isn't her first language?

    She typed out a well thought out understandable response. She can go back RE-READ the OP post. To think that someone would smoke next to someone on the TM I for one would go back and re-read the OP to make sure I am reading it correctly since it sounds so absurd.

    you know thank you because i've realize my mistake and on the "absurd" thing like i said i assume that was a American acceptable thing to do and i post it, might be news to you but there a lot of cultural differences out there and things the would sound absurd to you is quite acceptable in other cultures .

    I've yet to see a gym where smoking is ok in any country.
    Although my gym, in Germany, does serve beer.

    you see that where i live would be in the absurd things book , the most you can get in my country is a protein shake and a granola bar
    Hopefully just different and not absurd.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    I would rather not have someone take the machine right next to me, but wouldn't really care much if they did. I do think you are being overly dramatic. As others have said, they may like that particular treadmill for whatever reason...some people are creatures of habit...or just not have the same need for space and not think anything of it.

    I run in the park now, but when I used to go to the gym I definitely had preferences. I didn't like being in the second row of treadmills if I didn't have to, so even if the entire second row was empty I would take a treadmill in the first row even if I had to be right next to somebody. I liked being able to look out over the main room instead of at the back of whoever was in front of me. View matters when you are stuck in one spot for a half hour or 45 minutes. LOL!

    I also preferred being on an end, so would take a treadmill on the end next to someone instead of one in the middle with nobody on either side. Just my own personal preferences...nothing wrong with that. That's part of going to a gym...you have to deal with other people.
  • Daiako
    Daiako Posts: 12,545 Member
    edited January 2015
    You are, I'm afraid, exaggerating the issue. Do you have a 'The very smell of smoke might kill me' sign around your neck? Is a person just supposed to intuit that your health issues are so serious that you can't deal with the day to day irritants that come with being exposed to other members of the human race?

    And don't even get me started on this issue people seem to have with people getting on a treadmill next to them. I wasn't aware of any 'must leave one treadmill of space between people least you be a social misfit/jerk/hitting on them' etiquette and I tend to hop on whichever one is closest to the TV I wanna stare at.
  • goldthistime
    goldthistime Posts: 3,213 Member
    At my old gym they had a row of treadmills in front of a row of tvs, on various stations. I would get on the treadmill in front of the tv that was playing something I was interested in. Sometimes it meant I was right beside the only other person using the treadmill.
  • kodiak1957
    kodiak1957 Posts: 13 Member





    chodde wrote: »
    Another thought is that possibly that is the treadmill the person runs on every day. I know in my old gym, when you found a treadmill that didn't slip or stop suddenly on you, you used it and never changed (took me 5 treadmills one day before I could effectively run my 5 miles). I don't have that problem in my new gym but then again all 25 are filled up too.

    This. I use the same machine every time, since it is tough to find one that doesn't have something non-functional. Most runners don't use the incline, but I incline to the max when walking, so I need a machine where the incline functions. I also need the heart rate monitor to work.
  • mikedenali
    mikedenali Posts: 181 Member
    Smoking STINKS. that is all
  • sympha01
    sympha01 Posts: 942 Member
    I like to play hookey and go to a matinee when the movie theater is almost completely empty, and I can't tell you the number of times a single person has come into the damn near empty theater and sat down right next to me.

    I really think some people just can't handle being by themselves. Either it just freaks them out to be alone with their thoughts (these people are annoying if you know them IRL, because they tend to be clingy), or for some reason they are just embarrassed that someone will see them by themselves and they try to hide it by sitting next to another person.
  • Maryt1961
    Maryt1961 Posts: 280 Member
    I think there is something of a herd mentality also, that if there are numerous open spots and one person occupying palace, the next perso is going to comeup right next to the first person...kind of a primitive safety in numbers thing...but also, people who smoke, cannot smell iron themselves and don't realize how strong an odor it is
This discussion has been closed.