The January Gym Crowd
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3dogsrunning wrote: »goddessofawesome wrote: »Crossfit is an affiliate, not a franchise. The difference being that you do not have the same level of requirement that you see in franchising.
The crossfit boxes here do next to no marketing. One guy has his truck painted. They have signs on their building. That's about it.
That doesn't mean he's making bank off of it. Sure the fee is $3k a year but then there's your rent. Depending on how many SF your place is and your location you could be paying $3-4k/month -- or more -- for rent. And then there's your utilities: water, heat, electricity. Not to mention all the insurance you have to carry, plus the cost of all the equipment that has to be bought. Oh, and don't forget about salaries! And with the salaries comes all the employment taxes that you have to pay. Then there's your quarterly taxes, yearly taxes . . .
You would have to have more than one affiliate (not even sure you can do that with this sort of business model) to be profitable. One location ain't going to do it no matter how much you jack the membership fees.
My post wasn't meant to imply they were. I was just clearing up the difference between an affiliate and franchise as I understand where the other poster was coming from with the high costs that can be associated with franchises.
I am in total agreement with you.
I also don't believe you are allowed to have more than one affiliate. Although I seem to remember seeing some controversy about one owner that was allowed to have two.
Gotcha. I misread your original post.
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What you're not realizing, and where my line of thinking is moving towards, is that this model is very susceptible to walmart style pricing, and the fractured affiliate system would make it fairly easy to take over a non-metro market.5. you are comparing a boutique niche service to walmart pricing and you don't seem to realize it.
Now, easy doesn't mean cheap, but that's something else. Once you take over the market, it's easy to monetize out of that. Like I said, it might tickle my pickle to look further into this. A major metro would be a lot more challenging, but some pissant place like where I like right now? Totally doable.
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What you're not realizing, and where my line of thinking is moving towards, is that this model is very susceptible to walmart style pricing, and the fractured affiliate system would make it fairly easy to take over a non-metro market.5. you are comparing a boutique niche service to walmart pricing and you don't seem to realize it.
Now, easy doesn't mean cheap, but that's something else. Once you take over the market, it's easy to monetize out of that. Like I said, it might tickle my pickle to look further into this. A major metro would be a lot more challenging, but some pissant place like where I like right now? Totally doable.
well go get that money son! you've got it all figured out so start clocking them dollars, yo0 -
What do you think I do for a day job? I create money out of nothing.
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I really don't mind new people as long as they clean the machines and ask questions when they are lost.
I haven't noticed a huge number of new people at my current gym, but I am doing a lot of my workouts very late at night and taking some classes at an outside studio right now, so I'm not there at the most peak times. When I noticed the biggest problem with January exercisers was when I lived in a small town with only one gym--horrible.
Most resolution exercisers will be gone/done by next week...if they are in your way, just wait a few days until almost all of them give up.0 -
Yup, a much as I would love to be supportive of all the new members it's hard when classes fill up quickly and you lose your spot in class to someone that isn't going to show up again ever.0
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The gym I go to is even more crowded now because the other "local" gym had closed it's doors at the end of December to make way for a Whole Foods. From what I heard, my gym had over 350 new members sign up in January. It's all good though. Everybody deserves a chance to be healthy and with the hours I work, I can go in the off-peak hours when most people are in work. My neighbor, however, was telling me if you want to get a bike in the spin class, you have to get there at least 1/2 hour before the class starts and wait on line.
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I haven't really noticed any newbies at my gym. It was a bit more crowded early this morning but other than that I haven't seen a big rush. But then again I'm not really paying attention to it. If there ARE newbies there they're pretty much sticking to the cardio machines right now.0
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Lol!0
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I've just started a gym as I sold my own treadmill and crosstrainer when I moved to a smaller place.
It's a bit daunting I must say. Everyone has opinions of who should join a gym. But the staff have made me feel so welcome. I'm not a fitness fanatic I'm a half an hour girl at the mo as I've just started again and finding it difficult.
These were no new year resolutions rather my doctor told me to.0 -
Yup, a much as I would love to be supportive of all the new members it's hard when classes fill up quickly and you lose your spot in class to someone that isn't going to show up again ever.
Life is so unfair. Sucks when gyms have a ridiculous policy like First Come, First Served.
In a completely unrelated story, I was quite miffed this morning when I lost my spot to post in the forums to someone that is unlikely to post in the forums again0 -
Just lift...who cares. Everything will workout okay. If this bothers you thats kinda like road rage in the gym. Let the little things go. Besides you may get to see one of em shoot off the back of a treadmill...that one kills me everytime.0
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My understanding of the niche fitness business is that a key part of the business model is that it takes far fewer members to reach a break-even point if you have an attractive product. The initial capital investment is lower, overhead costs are lower, and members are willing to pay a higher price for the increased attention (which can also result in lower turnover rate). Starting a traditional club with a lot of equipment require a much larger volume of members. And unless you are a higher-end premium facility, you are usually competing on price with a bunch of other chains. It turns into a race to the bottom that needs a constant flow of new members to sustain.
A boutique club usually doesn't require anywhere near that much churn and burn.
I think the fact that the product might be "hot" right now drives the decision to open the business and increases the chances for success--as opposed to being a "price gouging" strategy to line the pockets of the owner.0 -
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Or stop doing classes.0
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My understanding of the niche fitness business is that a key part of the business model is that it takes far fewer members to reach a break-even point if you have an attractive product. The initial capital investment is lower, overhead costs are lower, and members are willing to pay a higher price for the increased attention (which can also result in lower turnover rate). Starting a traditional club with a lot of equipment require a much larger volume of members. And unless you are a higher-end premium facility, you are usually competing on price with a bunch of other chains. It turns into a race to the bottom that needs a constant flow of new members to sustain.
A boutique club usually doesn't require anywhere near that much churn and burn.
I think the fact that the product might be "hot" right now drives the decision to open the business and increases the chances for success--as opposed to being a "price gouging" strategy to line the pockets of the owner.
Yep.
http://blog.kimcorealty.com/2012/10/the-economics-of-crossfit-paying-premium-prices-to-be-in-pain/0 -
My understanding of the niche fitness business is that a key part of the business model is that it takes far fewer members to reach a break-even point if you have an attractive product. The initial capital investment is lower, overhead costs are lower, and members are willing to pay a higher price for the increased attention (which can also result in lower turnover rate). Starting a traditional club with a lot of equipment require a much larger volume of members. And unless you are a higher-end premium facility, you are usually competing on price with a bunch of other chains. It turns into a race to the bottom that needs a constant flow of new members to sustain.
A boutique club usually doesn't require anywhere near that much churn and burn.
I think the fact that the product might be "hot" right now drives the decision to open the business and increases the chances for success--as opposed to being a "price gouging" strategy to line the pockets of the owner.
Yep.
http://blog.kimcorealty.com/2012/10/the-economics-of-crossfit-paying-premium-prices-to-be-in-pain/
TL;DR - I'll just assume that Crossfit gyms are gouging members with incoherently high prices.0 -
@harmar21 thank you! It's always nice to hear from someone who was in a similar position. You make some good points. I would probably go with my husband and maybe a session or 2 with a trainer would be valuable too as some of the others mentioned too. To be honest, once I go for the first time I will be fine, it's just the first time somewhere new that's scary.
Do you talk to the people who happen to go when you're there? I think working out with people can be motivating,studies show when there's a group it creates friendly competition which can be a good thing sometimes 0 -
I've noticed a handful of newer members at 5am. Most of them are still there now that we are a few weeks out and they seem like they are going to stay which is nice. I went to the gym after work one day to run and it looked pretty crowded in both the cardio and free weight section. I found an open treadmill and just ran what I needed to run and left.0
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Already started to lessen. :-) The NYR'ers were getting on my nerves.0
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Have a home gym.
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jofjltncb6 wrote: »My gym doesn't seem any more of less crowded...
...but I'll keep an eye on it.
LOL0 -
gamesandgains wrote: »Wish I knew you personally. I'd bring you along with me and show you the ropes. Don't be timid or intimated; everyone had to start somewhere.
Aww, that's really sweet and reassuring to hear! Thank you@gamesandgains
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goddessofawesome wrote: »No need to be scared or to let these types of threads scare you off from joining a gym. Everyone had to start off some where and even the people who are complaining here started out as a newbie once too. Just make sure you know the gym "rules" (ie: re-rack your weights, wipe down your equipment, don't hoard equipment, etc). Chances are really good that no one in the gym will even notice you.
My gym hasn't been too busy with newbies and even if it were I really wouldn't know who was new and who wasn't because I really don't care. I'm focused more on my workout than on someone who just started the gym. Not only that but for all I know you could be someone who used to workout later in the day and switched to mornings.
Seriously. Just do some research and find a gym that will suit you. There's no reason you shouldn't go.
Thanks for taking the time to reply @goddessofawesome That's reassuring to hear, and you make logical points.
I definitely will do more research, there's one in particular that I like and I think the next step is to just go and talk to the the reception people about gym membership prices etc (even though I already know) and take it from there. That way, the first visit has been done before I actually use it to workout.
I think you're right, as some others have said as well. They won't even notice me. It's an irrational fear but I'm getting there 0 -
jofjltncb6 wrote: »My understanding of the niche fitness business is that a key part of the business model is that it takes far fewer members to reach a break-even point if you have an attractive product. The initial capital investment is lower, overhead costs are lower, and members are willing to pay a higher price for the increased attention (which can also result in lower turnover rate). Starting a traditional club with a lot of equipment require a much larger volume of members. And unless you are a higher-end premium facility, you are usually competing on price with a bunch of other chains. It turns into a race to the bottom that needs a constant flow of new members to sustain.
A boutique club usually doesn't require anywhere near that much churn and burn.
I think the fact that the product might be "hot" right now drives the decision to open the business and increases the chances for success--as opposed to being a "price gouging" strategy to line the pockets of the owner.
Yep.
http://blog.kimcorealty.com/2012/10/the-economics-of-crossfit-paying-premium-prices-to-be-in-pain/
TL;DR - I'll just assume that Crossfit gyms are gouging members with incoherently high prices.
Yup. $100-$150 per month around here. And they have "classes" so you have to get to a class at a certain time if you want to compete with the others in the class. I might try one on a groupon for LOLs but other than that0 -
This is one advantage to belonging to an expensive gym. It's more crowded than usual, but the increase is no where near where it usually is at the Y (where I used to go). When I was a member for the Y, I pretty much gave up on formal exercise during the month of January because of the crowds.0
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JeffseekingV wrote: »jofjltncb6 wrote: »My understanding of the niche fitness business is that a key part of the business model is that it takes far fewer members to reach a break-even point if you have an attractive product. The initial capital investment is lower, overhead costs are lower, and members are willing to pay a higher price for the increased attention (which can also result in lower turnover rate). Starting a traditional club with a lot of equipment require a much larger volume of members. And unless you are a higher-end premium facility, you are usually competing on price with a bunch of other chains. It turns into a race to the bottom that needs a constant flow of new members to sustain.
A boutique club usually doesn't require anywhere near that much churn and burn.
I think the fact that the product might be "hot" right now drives the decision to open the business and increases the chances for success--as opposed to being a "price gouging" strategy to line the pockets of the owner.
Yep.
http://blog.kimcorealty.com/2012/10/the-economics-of-crossfit-paying-premium-prices-to-be-in-pain/
TL;DR - I'll just assume that Crossfit gyms are gouging members with incoherently high prices.
Yup. $100-$150 per month around here. And they have "classes" so you have to get to a class at a certain time if you want to compete with the others in the class. I might try one on a groupon for LOLs but other than that
whoops0 -
So then that's all pure profit.3dogsrunning wrote: »and how much are the co-marketing costs?
They aren't spending on equipment, or staffing. Again, we go back to higher costs due to cult status and marketing costs. This isn't magic. It's done every day.
Exposed franchise fees are a simple $3k yearly plus some derptificate, that's fine. What are the other costs? Considering my one experience with having bought into a food franchise, those costs are fairly extreme, and come with requirements to pay for marketing, regional fees, management fees, logistical fees, etc. etc. etc.
Again, cult + marketing of cool = excessive membership charge.and how much are the co-marketing costs?
They aren't spending on equipment, or staffing. Again, we go back to higher costs due to cult status and marketing costs. This isn't magic. It's done every day.
Exposed franchise fees are a simple $3k yearly plus some derptificate, that's fine. What are the other costs? Considering my one experience with having bought into a food franchise, those costs are fairly extreme, and come with requirements to pay for marketing, regional fees, management fees, logistical fees, etc. etc. etc.
Again, cult + marketing of cool = excessive membership charge.
Crossfit is an affiliate, not a franchise. The difference being that you do not have the same level of requirement that you see in franchising.
The crossfit boxes here do next to no marketing. One guy has his truck painted. They have signs on their building. That's about it.
No *kitten*.
I'm going to review this more in depth, $3k and a few fees to clean up? yeah bob.
Not so fast chief. Just because you waaaay estimated the franchise fees doesn't mean it's all profit. I think you're still failing to do a proper accounting of what it costs to run a gym and how many members you need to have to turn a profit.
But maybe next time a little research before accusing a company of soaking it's members just because.....made up reasons.
Cult costs are excessive, and why the average CF gym in my little slice of the outer rim is $150 a month for unlimited.
Back when I lived in Boston, one opened for the grand discount of $175 a month unlimited. At that price level, they're pricing out most folks, and ensuring that the in-house body count stays at a particular level, but it's pretty damn silly to think that they have to charge that much to run a gym.
They don't, it's the result of cult marketing pricing. It's even more obvious since the fees are so low, and apparently there aren't your average franchise co-marketing fees, management fees, etc. We're already seeing "knock offs" here, so it's only a matter of time before coherent pricing comes to the CF world.
wrong wrong wrong. like, record levels of wrongness in here. but i guess it's more fun to take jabs at CF than to try to write a functioning business plan?
1. $150 per month is cheap. dirt cheap
2. you're not worried about pricing out a bunch of people, only pricing in your target audience.
3. i charge $400 per month on average to run my gym and a couple of months back a client laughed in my face because she thought it was too cheap for what she was getting. she said she would have paid double.
4. not only am i not a cult, no one in my local area knows who i am.
5. you are comparing a boutique niche service to walmart pricing and you don't seem to realize it.
$150 is not dirt cheap for a Crossfit gym.0
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