Giving up diet soda. So hard!
Replies
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Aviva, you definitely have a flagging fiend after you or maybe they are a pizza maker from the east coast. Either way - what a jerk!
On the positive side, my post directing OP to MFP's Facebook page which received 7 flags for Spam and was sadly buried
has reappeared. Apparently, it was reviewed by MFP and they found that the article written by their own registered dietitian was not spam after all. 0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »In this topic I have learned that the educational system is failing. Oh and giving up soft drinks and diet soft drinks is fine if that's your thing, but not really necessary and won't make the slightest difference if you still consume above your calorie allowance.
Apart from that... not a lot.
Yes I thought the same thing about the education system. They definitely need to concentrate on teaching manners.
I take it they didn't in your day?
My comment was a generalisation, yours was personal.
My kids would find it funny though as they would say to their friends who stayed for dinner "don't sit next to mum, she is a manners freak."
Yes Herrspoon, back in my day, manners were important and were a massive part of the education system. And yes, I do think it is something that is missing in todays society and is evident in the exchanges on this forum. Once again, a generalisation.0 -
BinaryPulsar wrote: »
there is a lot of really bad pizza on the east coast. i'm from new york.
There is also a lot of good pizza. I'm from Boston and lived in New York. My husband is from New Jersey. On the west coast pizza is only good from very good Italian restaurants. Also fresh made pasta is so yummy!
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »
there is a lot of really bad pizza on the east coast. i'm from new york.
There is also a lot of good pizza. I'm from Boston and lived in New York. My husband is from New Jersey. On the west coast pizza is only good from very good Italian restaurants. Also fresh made pasta is so yummy!
maybe i'm picky then. most random pizza joints in ny just aren't good to me. they have to be really highly rated to be good.0 -
I've never had a great slice of pizza in NJ.BinaryPulsar wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »
there is a lot of really bad pizza on the east coast. i'm from new york.
There is also a lot of good pizza. I'm from Boston and lived in New York. My husband is from New Jersey. On the west coast pizza is only good from very good Italian restaurants. Also fresh made pasta is so yummy!
I didn't like the pizza in NJ either, but it's very close to NY. We have lived and worked in NY. He has family in NY. We have a lot of friends in NY. Always go to NY when visiting NJ. I'm sure there are a lot of crappy pizza places. But, there are a lot of good pizza places to choose from. Don't go to the bad ones. Do go to the good ones. I have had good pizza in Boston and NY. That doesn't mean all the pizza places are good. But, if you know the area, you can choose good places. I miss it. But there was one good place in California. A couple good places here. But, those are restaurants. Not pizza delivery or grab it by the slice. If you move away, you will see the pizza in other places is often all bad (in my opinion). When I am back in Boston and NY I love having pizza (from good places, not every single place). This is in response to Aviva.
Edit to add: I did have good pizza on the Jersey Shore once.
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BinaryPulsar wrote: »
I've never had a great slice of pizza in NJ.BinaryPulsar wrote: »BinaryPulsar wrote: »
there is a lot of really bad pizza on the east coast. i'm from new york.
There is also a lot of good pizza. I'm from Boston and lived in New York. My husband is from New Jersey. On the west coast pizza is only good from very good Italian restaurants. Also fresh made pasta is so yummy!
I didn't like the pizza in NJ either, but it's very close to NY. We have lived and worked in NY. He has family in NY. We have a lot of friends in NY. Always go to NY when visiting NJ. I'm sure there are a lot of crappy pizza places. But, there are a lot of good pizza places to choose from. Don't go to the bad ones. Do go to the good ones. I have had good pizza in Boston and NY. That doesn't mean all the pizza places are good. But, if you know the area, you can choose good places. I miss it. But there was one good place in California. A couple good places here. But, those are restaurants. Not pizza delivery or grab it by the slice. If you move away, you will see the pizza in other places is often all bad (in my opinion). When I am back in Boston and NY I love having pizza (from good places, not every single place).
oh yeah, we have some good grab by the slice places here for sure.0 -
Everyone loves pizza.
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herrspoons wrote: »realharlot wrote: »realharlot wrote: »
You don't have time to post links to studies? Right. Maybe there are none.realharlot wrote: »While I can't be bothered to find it right now there are studies that show drinking diet soda can and will make you consume more calories. You're telling your brain that you are consuming very sugary things and then letting it know you lied to it.
In addition to that, when you drink sugary things all the time your tolerance for sweets goes way up. Soda suddenly doesn't taste as sweet as it used to because your taste buds have adjusted. If you spend a few months traveling India you probably wouldn't find Americanized Indian food very spicy anymore either. It's the same thing for sweet, salty, sour, and umami.
Think about the effect water is supposed to have in your body. It's supposed to replace the water that has been excreted (through crying, breathing, sweating, urinating, defecating, and menstruating). When you eat dry things it helps you push it along. Soda is basically sugary high ph acid for your body or low calorie chemical high ph acid for your body. When soda is your primary choice for liquid intake it's sure to take its toll on your organs.
It's all a matter of framing and finding a healthy substitute.
That said, maybe soda does make some people hungrier but not everyone.
Eating sweets might cause some people to want more but, again, not everyone.
Your assertions are very general.
Links to peer reviewed studies, please.
For you too, buddy! Clicky clicky!
Yeah, it seems to me you're trying to one up with your snark replies, but its not working. Your link is opinion only and not facts (as I posted a few posts up, but I guessed you missed it
), therefore it is not all that reliable.
Have you found any peer reviewed studies to support your opinion?.
This is the Yale Journal of Biology and Medicine article that was linked on the right hand side of the VIDEO you clicked play on:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2892765/pdf/yjbm_83_2_101.pdf
It covers multiple clinical studies which can be cited with a teensy little bit of leg work. I consider it to be the most relevant seeing as it cites many opposed to few.
I've studied this - both the review paper (it's not a study) you link to and the referred studies. First of all, the control of confounding variables is at best dubious in a number of studies - for example, it is as likely that those using artificial sweetners were more prone to excess calorie consumption, and this was the cause of their weight gain, and that the use of sweeteners was incidental. As the review paper says:A strict differentiation between artificial sweetener users and non-users was not possible.
In other words, people who are more likely to over consume are more likely to use artificial sweeteners. It is not, however, the artificial sweeteners themselves that cause the weight gain. Again, as the review paper states:Vigilant monitoring, caloric restriction, and exercise were likely involved in the weight loss seen in multidisciplinary programs that included artificial sweeteners
Which is true - artificial sweeteners will not in themselves help weight loss. They are merely a means to potentially reduce calorie intake which will do nothing if overall calorie intake is not reduced.
So, unfortunately, this paper rather puts the cart before the horse and doesn't prove anything either way, hence the use of the word 'suggest' and, to be honest, the studies cited are so fundamentally flawed that they don't even suggest anything.
Yep. This author is trying to prove a link between artificial sweeteners with increased calorie consumption and higher BMI, but there is nothing on whether overeating was present prior to the studies, but my guess is that it was.
I love my sugar with a passion, as well as agave nectar and Stevia, but sometimes I'll put that splenda in my coffee at the coffee shop. Do I feel hungry after. No.
When I drank a liter of diet soda I was not any hungrier than usual, and my weight loss or gain or maintenance depended on what I chose to put in my mouth.
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realharlot wrote: »Thank you. Back later to read because we are out the door in a few.
THANK YOU.
Why are shouting? I hear just fine.
I replied to your "study" just above.0 -
sewright84 wrote: »My hubby and I quit soda a long time ago and we replaced it with Crystal Light Ice Tea, it only has 5 calories a glass and after a while your craving for soda will go away
Crystal Light has artificial sweetener, correct? Do you feel hungrier drinking it?
I like Crystal Light as well, but it is sometimes too sweet for me.0 -
good for you!!0
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OK after 15 pages of reading for and against soda, pizza and goodness knows what else, I have made my decision.
Yes, I love pizza - the good healthy, homemade or good restaurant type pizza (wheat free for me) Yummy!!! Not a problem.
Soda of any type - forget it!! It has no nutritional value whatsoever and is a waste of my tummy space.
Hoooooorrrrrrrroooooo
Edited because I couldn't spell "hooroo" and I realised I was shouting.0 -
Interestingly, the demands to know why people want to do things only come up in the threads where people wish to discourage the behavior. I believe many people ask why just so that they can argue with the reason and mock the OP if the OP believes things they don't believe.lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Mamapeach, why the interest in getting people to drink diet soda? I would have thought someone with your medical history would be more interested in nutrition.
She's debunking false information. She has not expressed an interest in whether anyone drinks diet soda or not. Sometimes it seems like some people (you know who you are) would prefer that false information not be debunked if that false information might scare others into doing what you think is in their best interest. I think that's horrible, and that it's more important to have as much accurate information as possible. Then other adults can decide what they want to do based on facts.
Yes, I'm an eternal optimist.
For me, it's not that. It's about respecting their decision. Their reasons don't matter.
I don't believe that seeking more information to better give them the advice asked for or to have a discussion is "not respecting their decision." I see it as having a discussion and sharing thoughts and experience. I've also seen tons of people on these boards seem genuinely relieved in realizing that their diet didn't have to be as onerous as all that. I've also seen people get upset because others didn't go along with their super special cleanse plan, of course (OP is not in that category in any way), but I still think it was good people shared the facts.
I have yet to see the mocking crowd ask anyone Why they want to increase their protein or throw out the Science! that suggests there is no benefit to going over a certain amount. When people ask how to increase protein, they're given answers. When they ask for helpful strategies to decrease pop or sweets, they get asked why and then mocked.
Not you, personally, but it happens. A lot.
If people want to cut pop, for whatever reason, they should be able to discuss it without being discouraged, much less mocked. It certainly won't harm them.
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Lynette4321 wrote: »i gave up sweets and diet soda and it's the diet soda that I miss so badly! I was drinking soda that didn't even have caffeine, but I apparently have quite an addiction.
I don't like spring water and I'm sick of water. What am I going to drink with pizza? Any ideas?
It's hard at first but you can do this. Diet soda can be just as bad for you as regular. It makes you more thirsty but masks it to your body like you are hungry and you end up eatting more than you realize. I drink water, flavored water, green teas w/ sucralose not aspertame, coffee. Good luck to you.
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Lemon juice in water, then just water. I think I'm lucky, I just decided to stop and stopped (same with smoking). But my boyfriend is trying to go from Coke to Coke Zero to no soda and it's been an eye opener watching how much he seems to crave it.
Maybe those water flavours, like Mio? I've seen some sweetened with stevia (don't get sucralose stuff if you're quitting diet soda for the chemicals).
Good luck.0 -
Personally it just about the misinformation. Unfortunately those same people have a difficult time with science. This is a nutritional forum after all and we discuss nutrition and then people wonder why they come up against an argument that is science based...... maybe a blog would be better with like minded people, and there's many here on just about any subject where science isn't much of a factor....... but for the new members it's important that they at least here what the science model has to say. I suspect this will not sit well with a certain demographic here, and of course it never will.
Interestingly, the demands to know why people want to do things only come up in the threads where people wish to discourage the behavior. I believe many people ask why just so that they can argue with the reason and mock the OP if the OP believes things they don't believe.lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Mamapeach, why the interest in getting people to drink diet soda? I would have thought someone with your medical history would be more interested in nutrition.
She's debunking false information. She has not expressed an interest in whether anyone drinks diet soda or not. Sometimes it seems like some people (you know who you are) would prefer that false information not be debunked if that false information might scare others into doing what you think is in their best interest. I think that's horrible, and that it's more important to have as much accurate information as possible. Then other adults can decide what they want to do based on facts.
Yes, I'm an eternal optimist.
For me, it's not that. It's about respecting their decision. Their reasons don't matter.
I don't believe that seeking more information to better give them the advice asked for or to have a discussion is "not respecting their decision." I see it as having a discussion and sharing thoughts and experience. I've also seen tons of people on these boards seem genuinely relieved in realizing that their diet didn't have to be as onerous as all that. I've also seen people get upset because others didn't go along with their super special cleanse plan, of course (OP is not in that category in any way), but I still think it was good people shared the facts.
I have yet to see the mocking crowd ask anyone Why they want to increase their protein or throw out the Science! that suggests there is no benefit to going over a certain amount. When people ask how to increase protein, they're given answers. When they ask for helpful strategies to decrease pop or sweets, they get asked why and then mocked.
Not you, personally, but it happens. A lot.
If people want to cut pop, for whatever reason, they should be able to discuss it without being discouraged, much less mocked. It certainly won't harm them.
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Lynette4321 wrote: »i gave up sweets and diet soda and it's the diet soda that I miss so badly! I was drinking soda that didn't even have caffeine, but I apparently have quite an addiction.
I don't like spring water and I'm sick of water. What am I going to drink with pizza? Any ideas?
I'm on day 26 of no diet soda so I feel for you! I just had to suck it up and drink water with lemon or plain water, but I let myself have one cup of coffee just to take the edge off the caffeine withdrawals. The weird thing is i realize I am craving less sugar now than I did before.
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kathryn2130 wrote: »Lynette4321 wrote: »i gave up sweets and diet soda and it's the diet soda that I miss so badly! I was drinking soda that didn't even have caffeine, but I apparently have quite an addiction.
I don't like spring water and I'm sick of water. What am I going to drink with pizza? Any ideas?
It's hard at first but you can do this. Diet soda can be just as bad for you as regular. It makes you more thirsty but masks it to your body like you are hungry and you end up eatting more than you realize. I drink water, flavored water, green teas w/ sucralose not aspertame, coffee. Good luck to you.
What is wrong with aspartame and coffee?0 -
Advertising and infomercials makes peoples research ability go full camo.kathryn2130 wrote: »Lynette4321 wrote: »i gave up sweets and diet soda and it's the diet soda that I miss so badly! I was drinking soda that didn't even have caffeine, but I apparently have quite an addiction.
I don't like spring water and I'm sick of water. What am I going to drink with pizza? Any ideas?
It's hard at first but you can do this. Diet soda can be just as bad for you as regular. It makes you more thirsty but masks it to your body like you are hungry and you end up eatting more than you realize. I drink water, flavored water, green teas w/ sucralose not aspertame, coffee. Good luck to you.
What is wrong with aspartame and coffee?
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http://www.arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/articles/aspartame_addiction.html
"Aspartame beverages contain 55 mg methanol per liter"
"The body attempts to detoxify methyl alcohol by oxidizing it to
formaldehyde (a deadly neurotoxin and Class A carcinogen), and then to
formate or formic acid within minutes. Formate and formaldehyde each may
contribute to toxicity and nervous system/immune dysfunction through
various mechanisms. One is the conjugation of formaldehyde with human
serum albumin (F-HSA) to form a new antigenic determinant. Patients
with multiple health complaints who had been exposed chronically to
formaldehyde develop anti F-HSA antibodies and elevated Tal cells
(antigen memory cells), consistent with sustained antigenic
stimulation of the immune system"
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v514/n7521/full/nature13793.html
Artificial sweeteners alter gut flora, causing glucose intolerance (prediabetes)
There you has it folks - a couple of mechanisms. The dangers of artificial sweeteners have been known for decades. Individual responses to artificial sweetners vary.
Artificial sweetner withdrawal can last a month, during which your body will get rid of substances like methanol, phenylalanine and aspartic acid, leading to headaches, sweet cravings, varying energy levels, and mood disruption. Try to drink a lot of water, eat a healthy diet, and exercise to help this process. Be patient with yourself, many other people have gone through the same thing, and experienced the benefits of living without diet sodas. Good for you for taking care of yourself this way - it's a challenge, you can do it 0 -
Wow what a response this has drummed up! I just want to give you some support for giving up diet sodas. Plenty of studies show serious side effects of those chemicals. I gave up diet soda about 15 years ago (along with cigarettes) and I do not miss it. I drink water. Here's a tip: fill a beautiful glass pitcher with filtered water and add slices of orange and lemon, you can also add mint, any fruit you enjoy. Use organic fruit. Drink it throughout the day. BRAVO! You will save plenty of money and can use it instead on buying better quality foods. Take it day by day and reward yourself when you hit 30 days in a row free! Good luck.
Why does she need to use organic fruit? Especially with something like oranges and lemons?
Also, how likely is it that she's still reading and looking for drink advice? I think all drink options were covered in the first 5 pages and everything since then has been a repeat.0 -
Can't read the full study, do you have it? Was wondering the dosages and durations, maybe you have that information, thanks. What about naturally occurring formaldehyde found in fruit and vegetables, what should people do, you think?http://www.arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/articles/aspartame_addiction.html
"Aspartame beverages contain 55 mg methanol per liter"
"The body attempts to detoxify methyl alcohol by oxidizing it to
formaldehyde (a deadly neurotoxin and Class A carcinogen), and then to
formate or formic acid within minutes. Formate and formaldehyde each may
contribute to toxicity and nervous system/immune dysfunction through
various mechanisms. One is the conjugation of formaldehyde with human
serum albumin (F-HSA) to form a new antigenic determinant. Patients
with multiple health complaints who had been exposed chronically to
formaldehyde develop anti F-HSA antibodies and elevated Tal cells
(antigen memory cells), consistent with sustained antigenic
stimulation of the immune system"
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v514/n7521/full/nature13793.html
Artificial sweeteners alter gut flora, causing glucose intolerance (prediabetes)
There you has it folks - a couple of mechanisms. The dangers of artificial sweeteners have been known for decades. Individual responses to artificial sweetners vary.
Artificial sweetner withdrawal can last a month, during which your body will get rid of substances like methanol, phenylalanine and aspartic acid, leading to headaches, sweet cravings, varying energy levels, and mood disruption. Try to drink a lot of water, eat a healthy diet, and exercise to help this process. Be patient with yourself, many other people have gone through the same thing, and experienced the benefits of living without diet sodas. Good for you for taking care of yourself this way - it's a challenge, you can do it
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I hope you are a step closer to giving up the diet soda 0
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Interestingly, the demands to know why people want to do things only come up in the threads where people wish to discourage the behavior.
Since I ask why all the time to better understand and give the advice asked, I know for a fact that's simply not true, at least not as a generalization.I have yet to see the mocking crowd ask anyone Why they want to increase their protein
I have quite often asked people struggling to get their protein up to a level that seemed high to me why they wanted it so high (while answering the question as I did in this case).When they ask for helpful strategies to decrease pop or sweets, they get asked why and then mocked.
She wasn't mocked and was given lots of helpful answers, including--again--by me and others who asked why.
I think you assume that people are delicate flowers in a way someone posting on an internet board really shouldn't be and occasionally see mockery where it does not exist. I have strong ideas about what I want to do with respect to my own diet, but I wouldn't post about it outside of a support group thread unless I was quite willing to discuss my reasons (which I am). I've posted lots of times about giving stuff up for a time and not gotten flack either, since I have reasons (some people probably think they aren't good ones, but since I don't try to impose my views on others as the only way to do things no one seems to care). Similarly, the OP explained her reasons here and people seemed to accept them perfectly well. The argument went on interminably because others got so upset on her behalf that anyone dared ask questions/say it wasn't necessary in general, and--of course--because we got into the typical "diet pop is evil and bad" from some of the usual suspects, which had nothing whatsoever to do with the OP.0 -
Interestingly, the demands to know why people want to do things only come up in the threads where people wish to discourage the behavior. I believe many people ask why just so that they can argue with the reason and mock the OP if the OP believes things they don't believe.lemurcat12 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Mamapeach, why the interest in getting people to drink diet soda? I would have thought someone with your medical history would be more interested in nutrition.
She's debunking false information. She has not expressed an interest in whether anyone drinks diet soda or not. Sometimes it seems like some people (you know who you are) would prefer that false information not be debunked if that false information might scare others into doing what you think is in their best interest. I think that's horrible, and that it's more important to have as much accurate information as possible. Then other adults can decide what they want to do based on facts.
Yes, I'm an eternal optimist.
For me, it's not that. It's about respecting their decision. Their reasons don't matter.
I don't believe that seeking more information to better give them the advice asked for or to have a discussion is "not respecting their decision." I see it as having a discussion and sharing thoughts and experience. I've also seen tons of people on these boards seem genuinely relieved in realizing that their diet didn't have to be as onerous as all that. I've also seen people get upset because others didn't go along with their super special cleanse plan, of course (OP is not in that category in any way), but I still think it was good people shared the facts.
I have yet to see the mocking crowd ask anyone Why they want to increase their protein or throw out the Science! that suggests there is no benefit to going over a certain amount. When people ask how to increase protein, they're given answers. When they ask for helpful strategies to decrease pop or sweets, they get asked why and then mocked.
Not you, personally, but it happens. A lot.
If people want to cut pop, for whatever reason, they should be able to discuss it without being discouraged, much less mocked. It certainly won't harm them.
I didn't see the mockery, but you may have read something into a reply that I missed.
Regarding the questioning about giving up sodas or sweets, with so much misinformation on nutrition everywhere we look, wouldn't it be better that people are aware that they do not need to 'give up' certain foods that they enjoy to have success? It could be the difference between adherence to an enjoyable diet and throwing in the towel due to intolerable restriction.
BTW, I thought you were in favour of different opinions and ideas...(not trying to sound snarky, if it comes off that way)
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I'm doing well staying off both diet soda and sweets. Thank you to all who have been supportive.
I found sparkling water in a can with flavoring. Made by Schweppes. Now I have something to drink with pizza.
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neanderthin wrote: »
Can't read the full study, do you have it? Was wondering the dosages and durations, maybe you have that information, thanks. What about naturally occurring formaldehyde found in fruit and vegetables, what should people do, you think?http://www.arizonaadvancedmedicine.com/articles/aspartame_addiction.html
"Aspartame beverages contain 55 mg methanol per liter"
"The body attempts to detoxify methyl alcohol by oxidizing it to
formaldehyde (a deadly neurotoxin and Class A carcinogen), and then to
formate or formic acid within minutes. Formate and formaldehyde each may
contribute to toxicity and nervous system/immune dysfunction through
various mechanisms. One is the conjugation of formaldehyde with human
serum albumin (F-HSA) to form a new antigenic determinant. Patients
with multiple health complaints who had been exposed chronically to
formaldehyde develop anti F-HSA antibodies and elevated Tal cells
(antigen memory cells), consistent with sustained antigenic
stimulation of the immune system"
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v514/n7521/full/nature13793.html
Artificial sweeteners alter gut flora, causing glucose intolerance (prediabetes)
There you has it folks - a couple of mechanisms. The dangers of artificial sweeteners have been known for decades. Individual responses to artificial sweetners vary.
Artificial sweetner withdrawal can last a month, during which your body will get rid of substances like methanol, phenylalanine and aspartic acid, leading to headaches, sweet cravings, varying energy levels, and mood disruption. Try to drink a lot of water, eat a healthy diet, and exercise to help this process. Be patient with yourself, many other people have gone through the same thing, and experienced the benefits of living without diet sodas. Good for you for taking care of yourself this way - it's a challenge, you can do it
7 healthy humans were given the maximum FDA allowable amount of aspertame, saccharine, and sucralose for 6 days. Four of them started showing signs of glucose intolerance (high blood sugar), replicating the results earlier established with rats.
Glucose intolerance with the rats was avoided if the rats were given antibiotics. They transferred fecal material from the treatment rats to other rats, and the transfer recipients showed the same glucose intolerance, establishing the microflora connection (aren't rat experiments horrible?).
Results indicate that some healthy humans can become prediabetic due to exposure to non-caloric sugar substitutes.
As for formaldehyde in fruits, the load of methanol in diet pops is 55 mg/liter.
The load of formaldehyde in fruits goes from the possible high 60 mg/kg in pears (about 10 mg/pear) to about 2.3 mg/kg in cucumbers (about .7 mg/cucumber, if you eat a whole cucumber at a time), with most fruits logging in at less than 20 mg/kg. A serving of fruit has a small fraction of the formaldehyde that you would get with the aspertame in a diet soda. I'm thinking with a known carcinogen, less is more. Also, when you eat the fruit/cucumber, you are gaining vitamins/minerals/macros/fiber/antioxidants, which you are not gaining with the diet pop. Eating a variety of fruits and vegetables is essential for health. Drinking diet pop is not, is poorly tolerated by some, and has health risks for others.0 -
PeLynette4321 wrote: »I'm doing well staying off both diet soda and sweets. Thank you to all who have been supportive.
I found sparkling water in a can with flavoring. Made by Schweppes. Now I have something to drink with pizza.
And the flavoring is aspartame free?
Otherwise it's the same as diet soda.0
This discussion has been closed.
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