All those asking and answeing questions
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Are you kidding? I LOVE those people! It's like they're wearing a giant sign that says "please ignore everything I've ever said because I can't back up anything."If you want kinder, gentler advice, that's fine. There's plenty to be had here. However, that style of communication doesn't work for everyone. It's unfair to ask that everyone present information only in the way you want to hear it. If I'm wrong, tell me. Give me the science and spare me the touchy-feely stuff. I respond better, I appreciate that approach and I would rather not waste my time hearing inaccurate information that's designed to soothe my feelings. There has to be room on a public forum for people who learn that way too.
except when you ask for the study the comeback is then "well MFP is not a scholarly site, and I do not have to prove anything..." LOL
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WalkingAlong wrote: »Suggesting that some people need a "good old fashioned b*tch slap" isn't an insult? It doesn't violate this?
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger.
It's not 'hurt feelings' that people don't care for. It's the arrogant "my way is right, you're an idiot" stance. It's not mature discussion. It's childish insults.
It's even worse that the people who want mature discussion are mostly women and the "you're just too touchy feely, let me bit*ch-slap you with my truth" are mostly men, in this thread and often all over here. An active female moderator would be a welcome addition, especially one with some familiarity with and acceptance for various diet schools of thought, or that understands there is not one way to skin this cat.
If you feel that way, you need to report the post and not flag it. The flagging system is for immediately quickly removing content that should not be seen (spam bots for the spam flag; porn or something similar for abuse flag).
Flagging that post is actually not how it should be reported and is an abuse of the flag system. Just a warning as (hopefully) there will be a new policy about inappropriate flagging, which may have repercussions as well.0 -
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »It's all subjective. You saw his comments as aggressive, I didn't. Comments you find negative someone else might see as being told the truth. On MFP too many of you guys think that people not agreeing with you or correcting you is negative, when it's not. It could be a result of when we were over weight many of us suffered from low self esteem and are very defensive or just that ego doesn't want to allow us to be corrected. It's time to let go of that.
The comments are both truthful and negative. People are telling the truth, but they tell it in an aggressive, hostile way. It's difficult for people who are unprepared for the hostility to not respond with hostility, which turns the conversation into a pissing contest rather than a thoughtful discussion about the issue.
^^^^ All of that, for me, is applicable for newbies only. I was shocked and angry when I first started posting. After a while (like, 30 posts in), when I saw how it worked, I stopped taking the hostility personally.
I do see people here who have 500 or 1000 posts and who are *still* taking it personally. That's crazy town, as far as I am concerned.
Seriously.0 -
SingRunTing wrote: »Of course there is also the cultural difference in this international site and the age difference amongst the users
Warning - major stereotypes coming up
I'm English, a lot of us have a tendency to self-deprecation and sarcasm; we tend to go for direct rather than touchy-feely
As for age, many of us were brought up in an age where we told to pull our socks up and just get on with it. The victim mentality is a new one for us eg it's always something or someone at fault,
I would find over-sentimentality and cheerleading from my countrymen shocking and probably more irritating than supportive, as I would assume they were patronising or taking the p!ss. However from Americans it's a cultural response and I accept that
But I still enjoy posters who are direct, intelligent and amusing . I have barked with laughter at some things people have posted, I thank them for the amusement factor ...I also note that these people are far more likely to get abuse flags
I'm from New England. We have a very similar reputation. The rest of the country finds us very standoffish and unfriendly (stereotyping of course).
It may be a Northeast thing
I'm from NY- people assume I'm going to be mean
NY/North Jersey here. We don't sugar coat things much, either.
Well I'd hope not, don't you know sugar is the root of all evil
(Do you see what I did there?)
that is only added sugar...0 -
You want to be coddled or do you want the cold hard truth and actually make gains towards your goal(s)
/thread0 -
Are you kidding? I LOVE those people! It's like they're wearing a giant sign that says "please ignore everything I've ever said because I can't back up anything."If you want kinder, gentler advice, that's fine. There's plenty to be had here. However, that style of communication doesn't work for everyone. It's unfair to ask that everyone present information only in the way you want to hear it. If I'm wrong, tell me. Give me the science and spare me the touchy-feely stuff. I respond better, I appreciate that approach and I would rather not waste my time hearing inaccurate information that's designed to soothe my feelings. There has to be room on a public forum for people who learn that way too.
except when you ask for the study the comeback is then "well MFP is not a scholarly site, and I do not have to prove anything..." LOL
ha! I agree ...
but then they start a thread about it..which I find more amusing...0 -
WalkingAlong, you've got several women calling you out that you are wrong. Is it different that they are calling you out as opposed to if it were us guys calling you out? Does it make it not as bad that it's women? And for the record, the group of women that have replied to you so far are some of the more honest, no frills women I know on this forum. So you went ahead and said it's the guys saying things to other women, I think you stand corrected.
something tells me she has disengaged from this thread, and literally walked right out of it...0 -
WalkingAlong, you've got several women calling you out that you are wrong. Is it different that they are calling you out as opposed to if it were us guys calling you out? Does it make it not as bad that it's women? And for the record, the group of women that have replied to you so far are some of the more honest, no frills women I know on this forum. So you went ahead and said it's the guys saying things to other women, I think you stand corrected.
something tells me she has disengaged from this thread, and literally walked right out of it...
Legit LOL'ed0 -
SingRunTing wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »Of course there is also the cultural difference in this international site and the age difference amongst the users
Warning - major stereotypes coming up
I'm English, a lot of us have a tendency to self-deprecation and sarcasm; we tend to go for direct rather than touchy-feely
As for age, many of us were brought up in an age where we told to pull our socks up and just get on with it. The victim mentality is a new one for us eg it's always something or someone at fault,
I would find over-sentimentality and cheerleading from my countrymen shocking and probably more irritating than supportive, as I would assume they were patronising or taking the p!ss. However from Americans it's a cultural response and I accept that
But I still enjoy posters who are direct, intelligent and amusing . I have barked with laughter at some things people have posted, I thank them for the amusement factor ...I also note that these people are far more likely to get abuse flags
I'm from New England. We have a very similar reputation. The rest of the country finds us very standoffish and unfriendly (stereotyping of course).
It may be a Northeast thing I'm from NY- people assume I'm going to be mean
NY/North Jersey here. We don't sugar coat things much, either.
Yeah, you guys are right. I'm just going off of what I've heard my whole life. But I would agree that the mindset would extend to NY/NJ. We just don't have time for other people's bullsh*t in the Northeast.
TIL that someplace in America thinks it has the monopole on frankness. Quaint.
Come to Germany, where telling someone "you got fat," is the expected truth, if, indeed, you got fat. "Rude" doesn't even exist in the local dialect.
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JeffseekingV wrote: »You want to be coddled or do you want the cold hard truth and actually make gains towards your goal(s)
/thread
sadly about 90% of people on here want to be coddled and told that what they are doing is right, and we should just be 100% supportive of clean eating, cleanses, water fasts, sugar is bad, etc, etc, etc...0 -
it's fine for people to disagree and try and stop someone from an unhealthy diet plan, but i've seen people get nit picky over such unimportant things where i can only conclude that they are trolling. there is nothing helpful about these posts. there's a difference.
only read the o.p. and still need to read the entire thread, so not sure what was said about this.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »Of course there is also the cultural difference in this international site and the age difference amongst the users
Warning - major stereotypes coming up
I'm English, a lot of us have a tendency to self-deprecation and sarcasm; we tend to go for direct rather than touchy-feely
As for age, many of us were brought up in an age where we told to pull our socks up and just get on with it. The victim mentality is a new one for us eg it's always something or someone at fault,
I would find over-sentimentality and cheerleading from my countrymen shocking and probably more irritating than supportive, as I would assume they were patronising or taking the p!ss. However from Americans it's a cultural response and I accept that
But I still enjoy posters who are direct, intelligent and amusing . I have barked with laughter at some things people have posted, I thank them for the amusement factor ...I also note that these people are far more likely to get abuse flags
I'm from New England. We have a very similar reputation. The rest of the country finds us very standoffish and unfriendly (stereotyping of course).
It may be a Northeast thing I'm from NY- people assume I'm going to be mean
NY/North Jersey here. We don't sugar coat things much, either.
Yeah, you guys are right. I'm just going off of what I've heard my whole life. But I would agree that the mindset would extend to NY/NJ. We just don't have time for other people's bullsh*t in the Northeast.
TIL that someplace in America thinks it has the monopole on frankness. Quaint.
Come to Germany, where telling someone "you got fat," is the expected truth, if, indeed, you got fat. "Rude" doesn't even exist in the local dialect.
ha, when I first moved to the south people thought I was the biggest A hole because I just told things like they were...
the thing about the south that is hilarious is that people can say things that sound so nice, but they are really saying go screw yourself...LOL0 -
As is the case with real life, different people have different ideas about what is and is not polite, along with the relative importance of being polite. If we think of that as quadrant system, friction is going to happen when people from opposing quadrants collide.0
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »But you're the one attaching those emotions to those words. That doesn't mean that was the intent, or that was how anyone else read it.
There can only be a flame war with two actively participating sides.
All words carry two meanings -- the denotative meaning and the connotative meaning -- that are culturally assigned when we learn them. It's not like we exist in a lexical vacuum where the denotative meaning is shared but the connotative meaning is a personal choice.
It's our response to those words that we have control over. I choose to take offense or not, but even if I don't choose to take offense, the denotative and connotative meanings are still there.
People come here for help, they are b*tchslapped with the truth. That doesn't feel like help, it feels like getting b*itchslapped.
So they slap back. Boom, war started.
Again, I'm talking about newbies here. People who have 50 or most posts are choosing to swim in the deep end and are on their own, as far as I'm concerned.
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it's fine for people to disagree and try and stop someone from an unhealthy diet plan, but i've seen people get nit picky over such unimportant things where i can only conclude that they are trolling. there is nothing helpful about these posts. there's a difference.
only read the o.p. and still need to read the entire thread, so not sure what was said about this.
Most the people that you see as being nitpicky aren't actually trolling - they are addressing the specifics because they see the devil in the details.
Trolling is an entirely different thing.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »You want to be coddled or do you want the cold hard truth and actually make gains towards your goal(s)
/thread
well unfortunately you cant express how you get your information delivered
but if you are asking, it would be nice to get the facts and then the receiver can take it from there. what you cant do is force them to accept it. i think thats what alot of people get annoyed by
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There have been instances in which I've posted in threads and got called out not because of what I've said, but because of things I've posted in the past in other threads. To me, I would consider that trolling. The intent is not to debate what I say or acknowledge it, it's simply to get me out of the thread.0
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You have never been bullied if you think this online stuff is bullying.SMH - amazing how folks feel privileged enough to attack, mock, insult people - and then do not accept any responsibility for their behavior. Mis-information can be corrected without resorting to bullying. Speaking of gender, pause to consider where the term "b*tch-slap" came from and why anyone would think that the act is OK. Language is not harmless.
Seriously. The word bullying is thrown about so often it's nearly lost any and all meaning. Unless someone is following you around the internet, degrading, insulting, and shaming you, you're not being bullied.
And I'm in Texas, and I'm pretty blunt/straightforward. I think.0 -
Capt_Apollo wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »Of course there is also the cultural difference in this international site and the age difference amongst the users
Warning - major stereotypes coming up
I'm English, a lot of us have a tendency to self-deprecation and sarcasm; we tend to go for direct rather than touchy-feely
As for age, many of us were brought up in an age where we told to pull our socks up and just get on with it. The victim mentality is a new one for us eg it's always something or someone at fault,
I would find over-sentimentality and cheerleading from my countrymen shocking and probably more irritating than supportive, as I would assume they were patronising or taking the p!ss. However from Americans it's a cultural response and I accept that
But I still enjoy posters who are direct, intelligent and amusing . I have barked with laughter at some things people have posted, I thank them for the amusement factor ...I also note that these people are far more likely to get abuse flags
I'm from New England. We have a very similar reputation. The rest of the country finds us very standoffish and unfriendly (stereotyping of course).
It may be a Northeast thing I'm from NY- people assume I'm going to be mean
i always assume when people say they're from New York, that they're from the city. i forget that there is a whole "upstate" part of New York.
I'm used to it. I'm close to the city so I just roll with it haha
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »SingRunTing wrote: »Of course there is also the cultural difference in this international site and the age difference amongst the users
Warning - major stereotypes coming up
I'm English, a lot of us have a tendency to self-deprecation and sarcasm; we tend to go for direct rather than touchy-feely
As for age, many of us were brought up in an age where we told to pull our socks up and just get on with it. The victim mentality is a new one for us eg it's always something or someone at fault,
I would find over-sentimentality and cheerleading from my countrymen shocking and probably more irritating than supportive, as I would assume they were patronising or taking the p!ss. However from Americans it's a cultural response and I accept that
But I still enjoy posters who are direct, intelligent and amusing . I have barked with laughter at some things people have posted, I thank them for the amusement factor ...I also note that these people are far more likely to get abuse flags
I'm from New England. We have a very similar reputation. The rest of the country finds us very standoffish and unfriendly (stereotyping of course).
It may be a Northeast thing I'm from NY- people assume I'm going to be mean
NY/North Jersey here. We don't sugar coat things much, either.
Yeah, you guys are right. I'm just going off of what I've heard my whole life. But I would agree that the mindset would extend to NY/NJ. We just don't have time for other people's bullsh*t in the Northeast.
TIL that someplace in America thinks it has the monopole on frankness. Quaint.
Come to Germany, where telling someone "you got fat," is the expected truth, if, indeed, you got fat. "Rude" doesn't even exist in the local dialect.
Saying that we have that reputation to other Americans =/= the only place in the world with that reputation
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ForecasterJason wrote: »There have been instances in which I've posted in threads and got called out not because of what I've said, but because of things I've posted in the past in other threads. To me, I would consider that trolling. The intent is not to debate what I say or acknowledge it, it's simply to get me out of the thread.
Credibility? How else do you show that in a forum?
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Therealobi1 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »You want to be coddled or do you want the cold hard truth and actually make gains towards your goal(s)
/thread
well unfortunately you cant express how you get your information delivered
but if you are asking, it would be nice to get the facts and then the receiver can take it from there. what you cant do is force them to accept it. i think thats what alot of people get annoyed by
What is annoying is when you give them the correct information, then dispute is as incorrect. Then you have two things going:
1) You have to correct the incorrect information
2) You know your information will help so you want to keep trying to convince them0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »It's all subjective. You saw his comments as aggressive, I didn't. Comments you find negative someone else might see as being told the truth. On MFP too many of you guys think that people not agreeing with you or correcting you is negative, when it's not. It could be a result of when we were over weight many of us suffered from low self esteem and are very defensive or just that ego doesn't want to allow us to be corrected. It's time to let go of that.
The comments are both truthful and negative. People are telling the truth, but they tell it in an aggressive, hostile way. It's difficult for people who are unprepared for the hostility to not respond with hostility, which turns the conversation into a pissing contest rather than a thoughtful discussion about the issue.
^^^^ All of that, for me, is applicable for newbies only. I was shocked and angry when I first started posting. After a while (like, 30 posts in), when I saw how it worked, I stopped taking the hostility personally.
I do see people here who have 500 or 1000 posts and who are *still* taking it personally. That's crazy town, as far as I am concerned.
Someone being negative is subjective. I have thick skin, NYC born and raised and it's just water of a ducks back with me. Again, you think it's negative while others may not. There is also a lot of misinformation and even more people with the lack of desire to learn. You specifically complain about us. And by us I mean myself, NDJ and other guys and say we gang up on people when it's not true. In return, you along with the other people that believe the same misinformation you do all agree with each other and call us rude. You specifically have called us bros and have tried to put us down saying we are "bodybuilders" as if it were a bad thing. It's hypocritical.
You call us a gang but we're not. In reality it's just you, you're standing in the middle of the room giving misinformation to people that don't know better, then 1 person comes towards you and corrects you, then another does and another and so on. It's not really and gang. It's a bunch of individuals all moving in the same direction appearing to look like a pose.
And here I thought you all had matching tats....*mind blown*0 -
it's fine for people to disagree and try and stop someone from an unhealthy diet plan, but i've seen people get nit picky over such unimportant things where i can only conclude that they are trolling. there is nothing helpful about these posts. there's a difference.
only read the o.p. and still need to read the entire thread, so not sure what was said about this.
Most the people that you see as being nitpicky aren't actually trolling - they are addressing the specifics because they see the devil in the details.
Trolling is an entirely different thing.
no, they are trolling with entirely off topic nit picky subjects. i'd bring up actual examples, but the threads were locked, so that is probably against forum rules.0 -
NiceSmile17 wrote: »I have read a few questions and response that people have written on here. It's really discouraging as a new user to ask a question or suggest a helpful answer. There are so many people that feel that they have the right answer and everyone else's is wrong. Let's just be helpful not rude as this is supposed to be a helpful source of information. What works or has worked for you does not make it the only way or the right way way for others. It is nice to hear what has worked for others and some people can take from many different ideas to make their own work for them. I hope everyone that uses this wonderful app finds it helpful and encouraging, not opinionated and intimidating.
Couldn't agree more, great post! I am also new here and have already experienced far too many who feel they know everything and don't even attempt the help the op with their question.
one example is the op asking about healthy snacks only to have people answer with "if it fits in your macros... there is no such thing as unhealthy foods! trans fats are healthy!"
I too am disappointed in many responses so far but I will continue to weed out those posts and do this best I can to learn and help others.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »There have been instances in which I've posted in threads and got called out not because of what I've said, but because of things I've posted in the past in other threads. To me, I would consider that trolling. The intent is not to debate what I say or acknowledge it, it's simply to get me out of the thread.
yep, that's trolling. pretty sure i've seen that happen to you.0 -
You know, i knew I should have lock thread after the OP posted it because these never end well. Below are some of the few reason this got locked.
1. No Attacks or Insults and No Reciprocation
a) Do not attack, mock, or otherwise insult others. You can respectfully disagree with the message or topic, but you cannot attack the messenger. This includes attacks against the user’s spelling or command of written English, or belittling a user for posting a duplicate topic.
b) If you are attacked by another user, and you reciprocate, you will also be subject to the same consequences. Defending yourself or a friend is not an excuse! Do not take matters into your own hands – instead, use the Report Post link to report an attack and we will be happy to handle the situation for you.
4. Show Respect to All Groups and Individuals
No derogatory references to sex, gender, age, weight, body-type, disability, ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation, or endorsement of violence against any person or group, even if couched in humor, will be permitted. This includes expressing stereotypes about any group or community.
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This discussion has been closed.
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