Body Positive or Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle
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racheljonel wrote: »I just don't see how anyone can be "happy" or "ok" with that much extra weight. I had almost exactly that same body at one point (I'm a little taller) and I wasn't happy at all. Not because I necessarily hated myself, but because that much weight is so uncomfortable. NO clothing is comfortable at that size....it's either bunching up under rolls, digging into fat or clinging in a weird way. Not to mention getting winded when doing ANYTHING, the sweating, the chaffing, not being able to literally fit in chairs or seats or back seats of cars...god I could go on and on.....it's just not fun. I guess she really doesn't know how inconvenient and ridiculous is to deal with all of that and that life can be so different, because she said she's been this way her whole life. I feel bad for her for that. To each their own I guess....
I don't know. I do agree that I'm much healthier and somewhat happier at size 10 than I was at size 22. But everyone's experiences are a little bit different I'd say. I never had "sweating and chafing", in fact I marvel at the discussions on MFP among men & women of all sizes regarding this. I felt like clothes were comfortable at size 22 (even jeans, bras, etc) unless I tried to box myself into a size 18 dress that simply was too small for me.
I do agree with you about fitting badly into chairs and seats and things. That was becoming an issue for me at my heaviest and was a major motivator for losing weight.
I ALSO agree with you 100% that this model probably doesn't realize how much better/different things could be. I was thinking about this just yesterday as I shopped in at least 15 mall stores for clearance fashions and realized that (until last year) since age 14 that wasn't possible for me...it was strictly plus size stores. Just a limitation I accepted without much consideration...
I definitely don't want to return to that size -- but I wasn't all that miserable to be honest. Most of the time I felt pretty great.
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Modeling and healthy lifestyles don't go together. Whether it's big or skinny models0
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she is truly stunning
its about damn time the "mainstream" recognized that women of her size not only exist but deserve more attention and beautiful clothing too
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I would think it is up to her and her doctors to determine what her "healthy lifestyle" is0
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Nordstrom uses some pretty hefty-looking plus size models. I honestly found it difficult to be drawn to the clothes those models were selling. If the model looks like a great big lumpy fatso in that, then it stands to reason that I will too.
I wouldn't buy any of the underwear that the model in the article is modeling. Sorry. She has a pretty face, but she's caked on the makeup so I'm not even interested in whatever beauty products she is using.
Most models are selling goods, not themselves. Models that are successful in selling goods make money.
As a poster-woman for unapologetic body-acceptance and self-love, that's fine I guess. More power to her and hers. People got to be able to live with themselves.
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seltzermint wrote: »I definitely don't want to return to that size -- but I wasn't all that miserable to be honest. Most of the time I felt pretty great.
This is true for me too. By the end I did feel it physically--I knew my feet would ache at the end of the day or I'd get tired from standing a long time in a way I wouldn't have if thinner, and I did dress to avoid chafing and feel uncomfortable because I wouldn't dress properly for warm weather. But for the most part I wasn't miserable being fat, and I don't think feeling miserable and worthless would have helped me decide to lose. For me, being miserable and feeling worthless tends to be de-motivating.
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She's gorgeous. The question is will the new beauty standards make women be more comfortable with who they are, or will it encourage girls/women to gain too much weight? There can be a positive and negative effect. Like the butt thing. It's great that women with coca-cola shape are finally getting acknowledged for their beautiful shape. Many women could now just live who they naturally are. But are more women getting outrageously large butt implants as a result? Yup. And it's not just butts: One brazilian beauty queen has terrible issues from trying injections to make her thighs fuller.
I think "real beauty" is more about the spectrum of beauty than one "style" of beautiful.
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Does a plus size model promote an unhealthy lifestyle? Maybe, but the current modeling industry already promotes an unhealthy lifestyle, since models go to extremes (bulimia, anorexia) to stay stick-thin. I see a need in the modeling industry for plus-size women. I'd like to see heavier models posing in the plus-size catalogs I shop from. It's hard to tell how something will look on me when a thin woman is modeling.0
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I don't think it's promoting an unhealthy lifestyle. On another note, I like her message. After all what is beauty really?0
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Lourdesong wrote: »Nordstrom uses some pretty hefty-looking plus size models. I honestly found it difficult to be drawn to the clothes those models were selling. If the model looks like a great big lumpy fatso in that, then it stands to reason that I will too.
I wouldn't buy any of the underwear that the model in the article is modeling. Sorry. She has a pretty face, but she's caked on the makeup so I'm not even interested in whatever beauty products she is using.
Most models are selling goods, not themselves. Models that are successful in selling goods make money.
As a poster-woman for unapologetic body-acceptance and self-love, that's fine I guess. More power to her and hers. People got to be able to live with themselves.
This is exactly what I was going to say.
All that should matter here is this: Is this model going to increase profits for whatever company she models for?
I don't think so.
I personally am so distracted by her bodyshape that I fail to notice anything she is wearing, and that includes her hairstyle and makeup.0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »
Big people shouldn't be relegated to wearing tarps because the current market doesn't "like" the way they look!
Or America could follow other country leads and make it hard to find clothes above a size 14 or 16. That way, people might be a bit more motivated to lose weight, if they actually had to wear tarps because they are too big.
I don't think it's ok to give the message that you can be morbidly obese like that woman and that it's ok. It's just not ok. And no, I don't like skinny models either, but at least they are 20-30 pounds from a normal weight... not 200+.
So...what... we endeavor to make them feel like crap so that they'll lose weight? You think that will motivate the masses?
Getting healthy is hard work. Losing weight is hard work. You need to invest in yourself in order to make a change that is worth changing. That does not work well with self hatred. Do you think someone in a tarp is going to want to go work out? Do you think they will be able to hold their head high if nothing fits?
Example:
I'm not overweight, I'm at goal weight actually... but I am tall. Very tall (6'1"). And when nothing I try on fits me, I get upset, and angry, and frustrated, and I don't wanna go out. I feel like a mutant and I'm embarrassed.
I have long legs (37" inseam). I have long arms. I have a long torso. Dresses don't fit well. Long sleeve shirts don't fit well. NOTHING fits well, unless I buy from a tall store. But if my clothes don't fit me... I AM MISERABLE. I don't want to go to work. I feel uncomfortable there because I feel like people are staring. And by the end of the day, I am demotivated. I just wanna go home and flop down on the couch.
Being overweight and being tall are very different, I get that. But if my clothes impact me that strongly, how much more so will someone who has too much weight feel EVEN IF THEY'RE TRYING TO LOSE IT?
But hey... if we shame them into hiding... at least we don't have to look at them, right? /sarcasm0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Any time people see a behavior or condition that was previously viewed as a negative becoming more mainstream, more accepted, it lowers the incentive for people who do that behavior or have that condition to change (which can be good or bad, depending).
The point is I don't think one model--or even multiple models--makes much difference. A majority of the US is apparently now overweight, and yet when I was overweight (and certainly when I was obese) it never felt like something acceptable or desirable, because of the overall societal message (which is not primarily from models--I never had any interest or expectation in looking like a model or actress). Obviously we are in no grave danger of teen girls deciding that it's desirable to be a size 24. When people claim that as an excuse to slam someone who is simply saying she's happy with her own size, it seems to me that something else is going on, since the world I live in does not tell us that it's cool to be a 24 (or anywhere near that).
In any event, I don't think models are so much of an influence as people like to claim. Normal people don't care that much what models look like. People are influenced by the people in their life and who they actually know or interact with, as well as their internal ideas about themselves. I was super insecure as a teen and thought I was fat when I wasn't (I was about what I am now or thinner) and self-conscious about my body (and was embarrassed about all kind of other things about myself), but that wasn't about models, who I never compared myself with, but about the fact that I was insecure and filled with self-judgment and self-hatred for other reasons. Now I still know I've got way more body fat than a model, and am also happy with my body and comfortable with myself (while wanting to improve it my body still, to reach fitness goals mainly). Again comparing myself with models isn't the issue (and nor does being happy with your body mean that you don't want to improve it).
Broader point is that people are usually more able to make healthy changes when they have a more positive self-image. Becoming more confident as an adult, even when fat, certainly made me more able to lose weight, as well as more able to be a happy fat person.
What makes a difference is not that there are models of some weight.
What makes a difference is having those models plastered in every teen and adult fashion or makeup magazine and clearly held up as the standard of beauty in most forms of media - or at least as those that wear clothes the best.
That's the difference at this point between the plus-sized models and the underweight models. One has been held up as the gold standard, and the other, at this point, simply exists. That's why people don't look at the plus-sized model and are influenced to 'become like her'. If they already are like her, they might be less inclined to change.
You were never influenced by the underweight model media blitz. Neither was I. Being concerned about fashion and makeup, etc, was not at all my thing. But it was and is a big deal to a large number of people, especially teens. How many diet to achieve the airbrushed perfection they see in the media? Surely you're not going to tell me that kind of unrealistic example has no effect.0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »Here's my two cents...
There are many overweight people in this world, and those people need clothes.
Whether those people like being where they are, or whether they are trying to lose weight, or in some cases gain - doesn't matter. They still need clothes.
Overweight people need clothes.
Underweight people need clothes.
Tall people need clothes.
Short people need clothes.
And as far as I'm concerned - there should be models for ALL OF THOSE PEOPLE.
Because this "article" is pointed at plus-size, I'll use that example, but really - substitute any outlier body type...
Big people need underwear. Big people need bras.
Big people like to swim - they deserve to have a bathing suit that works for them.
Big people need to go to work and look professional. Big people like to relax too.
Big people like to exercise.
Big people shouldn't be relegated to wearing tarps because the current market doesn't "like" the way they look!
As such... yes to plus size models! Make clothes that fit them, that flatter them, that help them feel good about themselves at their current state.
Because as far as I am concerned... many of our issues with food come from using it to medicate our emotional scars. And being dressed in a tarp because noone wants to design for it, is emotionally scarring.
What she said.0 -
if advertising didn't work... no one would advertise.0
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You were never influenced by the underweight model media blitz. Neither was I. Being concerned about fashion and makeup, etc, was not at all my thing. But it was and is a big deal to a large number of people, especially teens. How many diet to achieve the airbrushed perfection they see in the media? Surely you're not going to tell me that kind of unrealistic example has no effect.
It seems like we are in agreement on the actual topic of this thread, the plus-sized model, so maybe we shouldn't go off topic. However, no, I do not agree on this. I know it's like an item of faith for some that the fashion industry or media is to blame for teen girls wanting to be thin or being insecure, but I don't think that's accurate.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »You were never influenced by the underweight model media blitz. Neither was I. Being concerned about fashion and makeup, etc, was not at all my thing. But it was and is a big deal to a large number of people, especially teens. How many diet to achieve the airbrushed perfection they see in the media? Surely you're not going to tell me that kind of unrealistic example has no effect.
It seems like we are in agreement on the actual topic of this thread, the plus-sized model, so maybe we shouldn't go off topic. However, no, I do not agree on this. I know it's like an item of faith for some that the fashion industry or media is to blame for teen girls wanting to be thin or being insecure, but I don't think that's accurate.
For some, maybe not. But can't you agree that for a significant percent of the female population, this is true? I am sure I can find some past studies that back this up.
For me, I agree. This was not a factor in my desire to look a certain way as a teen.
ETA: On the actual topic at hand, I don't necessarily agree this is "promoting" an unhealthy lifestyle. Just like any other model, this woman is doing a job. And just like any other company, they are trying to sell goods. I think it's just marketing to those you desire to sell to. End of story. No need to shame.0 -
WillLift4Tats wrote: »But can't you agree that for a significant percent of the female population, this is true? I am sure I can find some past studies that back this up.
No, and none of the studies I've ever seen were convincing at all. It's just not consistent with my understanding of human nature and something that rather bugs me when pushed as a feminist issue (and I'm a feminist, I just don't think that skinny models are really the issue). In particular with something like anorexia the evidence seems to be that it predates current fashion norms and the tendency is probably more biological, from what I've read.
But I'm sorry to have brought this off topic, so will drop it now.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WillLift4Tats wrote: »But can't you agree that for a significant percent of the female population, this is true? I am sure I can find some past studies that back this up.
No, and none of the studies I've ever seen were convincing at all. It's just not consistent with my understanding of human nature and something that rather bugs me when pushed as a feminist issue (and I'm a feminist, I just don't think that skinny models are really the issue). In particular with something like anorexia the evidence seems to be that it predates current fashion norms and the tendency is probably more biological, from what I've read.
But I'm sorry to have brought this off topic, so will drop it now.
I totally agree here. I think the issue really starts at home with self esteem and what we're taught to value in other people and ourselves.
Sorry to butt in
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I don't think it's promoting any kind of lifestyle, I have more issue with the fact that the photos in the article seem to promote a specifc, objectified and cliched version of femininity, regardless of size.
As far as body positivity is concerned, to me that's an important and huge issue that involves a lot more than "fat acceptance". People with all kind of body issues should not be shamed. People in general are very rarely shamed into anything good, I think.
Finally, it's just marketing. And while I still buy plus sizes I am a lot more likely to buy from companies who use actual plus-sized models in their clothes, for purely practical reasons and nothong to do with ideology.0 -
Why wouldn't we have models in all sizes? How can you tell what your clothes are going to look like in a size 24 on a size 2 model? As far as her life style, I don't know how healthy she is. I hope she's healthy. But she got the job to model clothing, not to promote a life style.
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Woman Within is one of the most amusing plus size companies I've seen. Not only do they do the most absurd vanity sizing I've ever come across, the models they use are so slim that the clothes are baggy as heck on them, like they belong on someone 75 lbs heavier.
Yet, they're a very popular plus size clothing retailer despite this.0 -
I don't think she's promoting an unhealthy lifestyle at all. We don't know what the overall picture of her health is just like we don't know how she got to be the weight she is.
But based on her social media followers, the #EffYourBeautyStandards movement and the large amount of press she's recently received, we do know that she's has given thousands of individuals the encouragement to love their bodies.
Seeing her model a pair of jeans or a dress isn't going to make me want to run out and gorge myself on fried food and wave goodbye to the gym. But women like her, who are so gloriously comfortable in their own skin, makes me a little less embarrassed to wear a bathing suit at a crowded beach.
I don't care if you're a size 4 or a size 24. Anyone who loves their body and is comfortable in their own skin is wonderful in my book. Besides, what's it to me if someone likes the way they look and is happy with themselves? It's not like their happiness is going to rain piss in my egg whites and ruin my day.
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I think that there is a difference between feeling good about having a healthy, strong but imperfect/real body, vs. being defiant about being 100+ pounds overweight. The latter doesn't seem very psychologically healthy to me.
I don't understand why people think she is attractive--even if she got down to a more average weight, she doesn't have a unique or interesting look and her features aren't very nice.
If she were thin, nobody would look twice at her. Maybe that is why she is fighting so hard for this--she just wants the attention.
She is WAY too short to model--it is really quite silly, weight aside.0 -
I have body image issues, but I find it condescending when any movement tries to get me to chant that I'm beautiful.
You don't have to convince beautiful people to chant that they are beautiful.
The whole self-esteem stuff just comes off as false to me, like giving everyone a sticker or a participation ribbon. Who showcases that on their mantel?0 -
Lourdesong wrote: »I have body image issues, but I find it condescending when any movement tries to get me to chant that I'm beautiful.
You don't have to convince beautiful people to chant that they are beautiful.
The whole self-esteem stuff just comes off as false to me, like giving everyone a sticker or a participation ribbon. Who showcases that on their mantel?
I get that.0 -
azulvioleta6 wrote: »I think that there is a difference between feeling good about having a healthy, strong but imperfect/real body, vs. being defiant about being 100+ pounds overweight. The latter doesn't seem very psychologically healthy to me.
I don't understand why people think she is attractive--even if she got down to a more average weight, she doesn't have a unique or interesting look and her features aren't very nice.
If she were thin, nobody would look twice at her. Maybe that is why she is fighting so hard for this--she just wants the attention.
She is WAY too short to model--it is really quite silly, weight aside.
FALSE.
I looked twice at her, while she was overweight. And attractiveness is so much more than facial features. Confidence, that shine in a person's eyes.. that is where a lot of attraction comes from. And I DO believe that she is attractive, and if she were thin, she probably WOULD turn heads.
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Lourdesong wrote: »I have body image issues, but I find it condescending when any movement tries to get me to chant that I'm beautiful.
You don't have to convince beautiful people to chant that they are beautiful.
The whole self-esteem stuff just comes off as false to me, like giving everyone a sticker or a participation ribbon. Who showcases that on their mantel?
For me the whole self esteem stuff matters, because I'm raising two girls. I want them to know it's okay to think they are good at something, or smart, or kind - that it's not immodest or wrong to celebrate things you like about yourself. I don't want them to fall into the same self loathing trap loop that I did.
I do agree about the chanting stuff though. I don't think I'm beautiful (and I'm super okay with that), so being told I must think that makes me uncomfortable. But I hate to be bossed around
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