Body Positive or Promoting an unhealthy lifestyle
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I love Tess, she is smart and funny and beautiful. I am a fat girl, and will be for a while and when I see "plus size" models that are a size 12 trying to sell me clothes it sucks. I mean they look awesome in the clothes and they appeal to the general masses it is a gross misinterpretation of what the clothing they are selling is going to look like on my body. At least Tess is real.
And for those bashing her fat.. eff off. Seriously she works out 4 times a week.
I'm really sick of this sentiment. If she works out 4 times a week, she obviously eats a lot of food to maintain her weight (any and all "health issues" aside). The amount of visceral fat that she has is not good for her, no matter how much she exercises. I'm not bashing her or hating on her. The facts are the facts.
She should love herself. Absolutely and 100%. But that doesn't negate the facts.0 -
SingRunTing wrote: »I do have a problem with her "effyourbeautystandards" campaign. I'm noticing a lot of makeup, hair dos, trendy clothing, and even, gasp, shaved legs & underarms for someone who's trying to rebel against the current standards of beauty. Someone who doesn't care about beauty standards is someone who doesn't try to conform to beauty standards. Like my friends who don't ever wear makeup, or have shaved their heads, or dress modestly in long skirts and zero cleavage ever. That's effing the beauty standards.
All of the above, or the fact that the campaign is coming from a girl that uses corsets and photo angles to make herself appear thinner. But she really loves her body, yall.
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Tess is a beautiful person and I applaud her for the things she does to try and promote body positivity. That being said, it is one thing to be positive and to love and accept yourself today just as you are......until you can be better. One should never stop trying to improve and be better than yesterday or even 5 minutes ago. I know it sounds like I am being an *kitten* but, I use to be one of those who thought, "If you can't love me the way I am, then you don't love me at all", and "I am a big beautiful woman and if you don't like it, who cares". I would get mad if anyone even suggested I try to do something to change it. I only got mad though because I didn't want to put in the work. I didn't want to have change my eating habits. I wanted people to accept me without me having to change anything. So, yes, you are beautiful today no matter what your size, but don't just accept it because you don't want to do the work. People tell themselves all kinds of things to make what they are doing or not doing sound ok.0
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I don't think her existing as a model will make much difference or "encourage people to be unhealthy" (or to strive to gain weight for that matter).
Many models are unhealthy by definition because they are too low on the BMI scale and you don't see it encouraging many people to lose weight to the point of being unhealthy (there are exceptions, but these have more deeply rooted issues than simply looking at models). Why is it acceptable to have representation at one end of the unhealthy spectrum but not at the other?
There will always be people who are obese and don't care, and people who are thin but have body dysmorphia regardless of how models look like.
I think this is good. It's really nice to have representation at any size. It used to be annoying that when I wanted to shop for plus size clothes, as a size 26 person, to see a size 8 "plus size" model wearing a medium or a small when real plus size starts at 1X. It did not represent the actual item of clothing I wanted to consider buying. It did not show how it sits on an actual overweight person, how the sleeves fit, how the curves modify the length.. etc. I had to imagine myself wearing something, then imagine the worst possible fit scenario, then pick the ones that were the least offensive in my head.
Now that I'm a smaller size, some brands cast plus size models in my size (14/16) and shopping has become much easier.
I personally did not mind my body when I was morbidly obese, and I don't mind it now that I'm plain old obese, and I know for a fact I won't mind it when I reach my maintenance. This "body acceptance" and "beauty standards" schtick applies at all sizes and shapes, you know. Glorifying obesity alone as the epitome of challenging beauty standards is at best shortsighted.0 -
I love Tess, she is smart and funny and beautiful. I am a fat girl, and will be for a while and when I see "plus size" models that are a size 12 trying to sell me clothes it sucks. I mean they look awesome in the clothes and they appeal to the general masses it is a gross misinterpretation of what the clothing they are selling is going to look like on my body. At least Tess is real.
And for those bashing her fat.. eff off. Seriously she works out 4 times a week.
She is still unhealthy and if she truly is working out 4 times a week, she's doing something wrong considering she still looks the way she does.
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I'm curious if anyone would be still be interested in her as a model if she lost 100lbs. Even though the revolution claims to be "embrace" who you are, I recall backlash when other large people who are an inspiration losing weight, and then they are shunned by the "fat community". The mentality almost seems to encourage her to stay fat.0
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I think she's radiant. I also think if I had an ounce of her self esteem at her age, that I would have had the self worth and courage to start my fitness journey a long time ago. I don't think appreciating her beauty is going to encourage people to get fatter, but it will inspire some to see beauty in themselves.0
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I'm curious if anyone would be still be interested in her as a model if she lost 100lbs. Even though the revolution claims to be "embrace" who you are, I recall backlash when other large people who are an inspiration losing weight, and then they are shunned by the "fat community". The mentality almost seems to encourage her to stay fat.
I agree. They say she works out 4 times a week. If someone her size was working out 4 times a week AND eating less calories, the weight would be falling off. Based on the photos, that's not the case which leads me to believe she is eating at maintenance and has no intent of losing weight (because then she'd be seen as a hypocrite).0 -
I can't believe this thread is still going ..
she wants to be a plus size model, who cares????
some people like it, some don't....
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GingerbreadCandy wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »
Big people shouldn't be relegated to wearing tarps because the current market doesn't "like" the way they look!
Or America could follow other country leads and make it hard to find clothes above a size 14 or 16. That way, people might be a bit more motivated to lose weight, if they actually had to wear tarps because they are too big.
I don't think it's ok to give the message that you can be morbidly obese like that woman and that it's ok. It's just not ok. And no, I don't like skinny models either, but at least they are 20-30 pounds from a normal weight... not 200+.
well i guess i better get down to millets and buy a tent then.
i dont need motivation from being forced to dress like im a freak. ive lost 165lb and still dont fit under your size catagory
why dont i deserve to dress nicely and comfortably? why should i be singled out because im bigger?
i gained weight as a combo of health problems and being attacked when younger so i gained as a protection. im losing now for my health but ill damn well dress nicely and hold my head up high while i work my way down the scale
What countries are forcing fat women to wear tarps. In all my travels, I've never been there.
Could I get a list? Or is this just fanciful victimhood?
China I believe?
Alright, but if we start comparing Asian sizes to Western sizes it is a sure-fire way to get everyone on this forum depressed.
That said, Japan did sort of "forbid" waistlines over a certain measure. I can't find any source with more reliability than just rumours though, so I don't know the details.
Was this the all powerful Ministry of Waistlines and Foot Binding?
Again, no. No tarps there for the obese.
Nah, it was a bit more complex than that and did not really have anything to do with tarps or clothing.
This is pretty much the only more or less reliable article i could find on it: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html?em&ex=1213502400&en=c6f2623fbee96495&ei=5087
ETA: Foot binding was also never a Japanese practice.
So there is a recommendation for waistline measurements like there is one for weight/height BMI measurements by the occupational/annual check physician in most of the western world.
If you smoke, in many countries the health ministries require that you be provided with information about risks and stopping. It doesn't make smoking "forbidden".
Obligatory foot binding is as common as obligatory tarps.0 -
racheljonel wrote: »seltzermint wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »It's all good if you don't mind panting like a hound after a flight of stairs... I don't mean to sound harsh at all and this has nothing to do with her looks or her confidence. Being a size 20 is just bad for your heart... and the notion that someone size 20 is "as healthy" as lower weight women (barring other health factors) is just not true. I am not trying to trash her by any means... I need to lose weight myself, but I am also a realist.
I was a size 20 when I started this whole thing, and I assure you that I never panted like a dog.
Yes. Isn't it offensive when people assume? I feel similarly when I read about sweating & chafing. WTF
It's offensive for me to share my personal experience as a morbidly obese woman? I did experience sweating and chaffing...and "panting like a dog" at light activity. I'm glad for you that you didn't, but my experience was just different, unfortunately.
What IS offensive is that people actually say you can not judge "health" by body weight. Maybe in certain cases, but that is certainly the exception and NOT the rule. If it were the rule, obesity (or obesity related disease) would not be the number one cause of preventable death in this country and we would not all be here wanting to do something different for ourselves.
Prepare to be offended.
You can't judge a person's health solely by weight.
While it certainly is a risk factor and adipose tissue is metabolically active there are a lot of overweight and obese people that are healthy.
It is the single most important risk factor for metabolic disease. It is NOT the sole indicator of a disease.
Meet Cheryl:
By any standard - BMI or circumference, etc she's probably in the obese class.
She's also an Olympian and healthy. Lifts more than any woman on these boards.
Actively practices several sports - had, when I read about it, great health markers.
Risks are for groups - don't use those evaluations for a specific individual because, unless you are her doctor, you really can't know.
Being obese, like smoking, is an unhealthy practice, in general but an individual might just slip through and still be healthy despite those risks. So no, you don't know anything about her in particular unless she tells you.
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Again, I still say that is the exception, and not the rule. This "you're not her doctor you don't know" argument can go both ways.0
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racheljonel wrote: »Again, I still say that is the exception, and not the rule. This "you're not her doctor you don't know" argument can go both ways.
Elaborate0 -
It's a double line sword.. really is. Body image issues suck but I know that if I didn't have any, I would probably not have gone through the steps to lose weight (and my health was fine, really, but let's stop the denial there - there were issues I didn't notice until I lost weight, and for how long was it going to be fine anyway?).
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.
Athletes being obese is another thing entirely though... they obviously don't have the same bodyfat % and it's really what matters.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »GingerbreadCandy wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »ruqayyahsmum wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »
Big people shouldn't be relegated to wearing tarps because the current market doesn't "like" the way they look!
Or America could follow other country leads and make it hard to find clothes above a size 14 or 16. That way, people might be a bit more motivated to lose weight, if they actually had to wear tarps because they are too big.
I don't think it's ok to give the message that you can be morbidly obese like that woman and that it's ok. It's just not ok. And no, I don't like skinny models either, but at least they are 20-30 pounds from a normal weight... not 200+.
well i guess i better get down to millets and buy a tent then.
i dont need motivation from being forced to dress like im a freak. ive lost 165lb and still dont fit under your size catagory
why dont i deserve to dress nicely and comfortably? why should i be singled out because im bigger?
i gained weight as a combo of health problems and being attacked when younger so i gained as a protection. im losing now for my health but ill damn well dress nicely and hold my head up high while i work my way down the scale
What countries are forcing fat women to wear tarps. In all my travels, I've never been there.
Could I get a list? Or is this just fanciful victimhood?
China I believe?
Alright, but if we start comparing Asian sizes to Western sizes it is a sure-fire way to get everyone on this forum depressed.
That said, Japan did sort of "forbid" waistlines over a certain measure. I can't find any source with more reliability than just rumours though, so I don't know the details.
Was this the all powerful Ministry of Waistlines and Foot Binding?
Again, no. No tarps there for the obese.
Nah, it was a bit more complex than that and did not really have anything to do with tarps or clothing.
This is pretty much the only more or less reliable article i could find on it: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/world/asia/13fat.html?em&ex=1213502400&en=c6f2623fbee96495&ei=5087
ETA: Foot binding was also never a Japanese practice.
So there is a recommendation for waistline measurements like there is one for weight/height BMI measurements by the occupational/annual check physician in most of the western world.
If you smoke, in many countries the health ministries require that you be provided with information about risks and stopping. It doesn't make smoking "forbidden".
Obligatory foot binding is as common as obligatory tarps.
Yes, I agree forbidden was the wrong choice of words. I was rather fuzzy on the details of the regulation when I first posted the answer.0 -
It's a double line sword.. really is. Body image issues suck but I know that if I didn't have any, I would probably not have gone through the steps to lose weight (and my health was fine, really, but let's stop the denial there - there were issues I didn't notice until I lost weight, and for how long was it going to be fine anyway?).
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.
Athletes being obese is another thing entirely though... they obviously don't have the same bodyfat % and it's really what matters.
Yet the Olympian posted above clearly does have a relatively high %BF. I can't tell if it's the 30% or higher that would classify her as obese, but this is definitely NOT a case of being overweight just because she has high LBM (which she's going to have as well).
Anyway, the point being that obese athletes may still have obese %BF. There have been plenty of studies showing exercise reduces risk factors in the obese. I wonder if a serious athlete would have their risk factors lowered to the point they're equivalent or lower than a healthy weight 'average Joe'?0 -
It's a double line sword.. really is. Body image issues suck but I know that if I didn't have any, I would probably not have gone through the steps to lose weight (and my health was fine, really, but let's stop the denial there - there were issues I didn't notice until I lost weight, and for how long was it going to be fine anyway?).
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.
Athletes being obese is another thing entirely though... they obviously don't have the same bodyfat % and it's really what matters.
Yet the Olympian posted above clearly does have a relatively high %BF. I can't tell if it's the 30% or higher that would classify her as obese, but this is definitely NOT a case of being overweight just because she has high LBM (which she's going to have as well).
Anyway, the point being that obese athletes may still have obese %BF. There have been plenty of studies showing exercise reduces risk factors in the obese. I wonder if a serious athlete would have their risk factors lowered to the point they're equivalent or lower than a healthy weight 'average Joe'?
Yeah that's a good question. She has more muscles to carry her fat, obviously, but at what point is the overall weight too much for her joints etc?0 -
It's a double line sword.. really is. Body image issues suck but I know that if I didn't have any, I would probably not have gone through the steps to lose weight (and my health was fine, really, but let's stop the denial there - there were issues I didn't notice until I lost weight, and for how long was it going to be fine anyway?).
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.
Athletes being obese is another thing entirely though... they obviously don't have the same bodyfat % and it's really what matters.
Yet the Olympian posted above clearly does have a relatively high %BF. I can't tell if it's the 30% or higher that would classify her as obese, but this is definitely NOT a case of being overweight just because she has high LBM (which she's going to have as well).
Anyway, the point being that obese athletes may still have obese %BF. There have been plenty of studies showing exercise reduces risk factors in the obese. I wonder if a serious athlete would have their risk factors lowered to the point they're equivalent or lower than a healthy weight 'average Joe'?
The answer from my reading on the subject is, usually, no.
Study after study of obese athletes shows 25% or higher risk for these groups. The overall risk factors (of metabolic related diseases) is higher for heavier athletes.
However, it doesn't say anything about the individual.racheljonel wrote: »Again, I still say that is the exception, and not the rule. This "you're not her doctor you don't know" argument can go both ways.
No, it doesn't go both ways. I. don't. know. Neither do you.
I'm not saying she's healthy. Far from it - I've states it is an unhealthy practice (don't do it, kids) but anyone commenting on her personal health is just guessing. There are plenty of overweight people that are in good health. It's her decision.
She might very well out live you - she reportedly works out with some frequency.
Again, her personal story doesn't interest me - but those that are here to "judge" her health and are carrying this under the false pretense of concerned it is not founded on her actual life but on your projections of what is/is not acceptable.
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It's a double line sword.. really is. Body image issues suck but I know that if I didn't have any, I would probably not have gone through the steps to lose weight (and my health was fine, really, but let's stop the denial there - there were issues I didn't notice until I lost weight, and for how long was it going to be fine anyway?).
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.
Athletes being obese is another thing entirely though... they obviously don't have the same bodyfat % and it's really what matters.
Children should always always always love themselves. Should they be satisfied with their weight and do nothing to change it? Probably not. But they should most definitely love themselves.0 -
Suggested reading for those that insist that an individual that is overweight must be unhealthy.
http://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_journals/eurheartj/press_releases/freepdf/prpaper.pdf
http://healthland.time.com/2012/09/05/can-you-be-fat-and-fit-or-thin-and-unhealthy/
From that article:
'That’s why some heavy people can be fit on the inside — healthier even than some of their thinner peers. Many people who diet but don’t exercise to lose weight, for example, may technically reach a “healthy” weight, but their fitness level doesn’t match. They may appear trim on the outside, but still carry too much visceral fat and not enough muscle on the inside. “They’re not physically active. They have horrible and restrictive diets. They might not be overweight, but metabolically they’re a mess,” says Church.'0 -
seltzermint wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Woman Within is one of the most amusing plus size companies I've seen. Not only do they do the most absurd vanity sizing I've ever come across, the models they use are so slim that the clothes are baggy as heck on them, like they belong on someone 75 lbs heavier.
Yet, they're a very popular plus size clothing retailer despite this.
I touched on this in an earlier post...but I really think thin-looking "plus size" models are part of the appeal for many women shopping plus.
I think some women look at those catalogs and others, thinking "well this woman is all proportional and lovely, but she's plus sized" and they aspire to be like that as well. They may naively imagine that's what the slightly smaller sizes like 12-14 look like (assuming they wear larger plus sizes) - I honestly thought that myself for years. I'm sure part of it is also imagining that the clothes' clever designs are really working to disguise "flaws" and unwanted extra pounds.
Is that a little nuts? Of course. Denial plays a huge role. But also, I think most of us have our favorite body parts and not so favorite, regardless of weight. As silly & shallow as it sounds when I'd see photos of plus size models who were truly plus size, even though they might weigh the same as I did, I couldn't help but think "yes but my arms are not quite like that thank goodness" and other ridiculous judgy thoughts. I think for some, seeing clothes on a regular everyday person is more disturbing than seeing them on a thin model and while that may be sad, it's one of the MAJOR reasons you don't see more truly plus models...yet?
Target has a new plus line coming out and I noticed some of the models are very much outside the norm. I looked at the photos and part of me was like "that looks fantastic" while another part of me was thinking "hmmm they are not going to sell skinny jeans to a plus sized teenager when they're on someone who looks (to their eye) like their dowdy History teacher".
http://www.refinery29.com/2015/01/81102/target-plus-size-lookbook-ava-viv#slide
Advertising/marketing is all about fantasy and that is going to take a lot to completely change.
Just my thoughts.
Apologies for not having time to respond to this yesterday. Interesting article about Target, I didn't even know about the past controversies they've had over plus size so catching up on that drama was pretty interesting as well.
I agree with your points. Marketing isn't about honesty, often the underlying message is "This good will make your life easier/better/complete", thinner models do tend to appear more effortless than heavier models, even so for the models of misses sizes, the bigger the model, the less effortless they appear. The plus size model in the article does not look effortless in the least to me, how many hours did it take to get her stuffed into her garb? The plus size models modeling Targets new plus size clothing also look stuffed and tucked and complicated, their clothes do not look effortless or like my life would be made any easier by owning them.
I've been shopping for a new bathrobe and in my searches I've come across many housecoat type robes and find myself amused that these garments that are mostly popular among aged women are modeled by 20-something women. Made me wonder if the housecoats don't sell as well if they are modeled by the demographic that typically purchases housecoats.
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »I have body image issues, but I find it condescending when any movement tries to get me to chant that I'm beautiful.
You don't have to convince beautiful people to chant that they are beautiful.
The whole self-esteem stuff just comes off as false to me, like giving everyone a sticker or a participation ribbon. Who showcases that on their mantel?
For me the whole self esteem stuff matters, because I'm raising two girls. I want them to know it's okay to think they are good at something, or smart, or kind - that it's not immodest or wrong to celebrate things you like about yourself. I don't want them to fall into the same self loathing trap loop that I did.
I do agree about the chanting stuff though. I don't think I'm beautiful (and I'm super okay with that), so being told I must think that makes me uncomfortable. But I hate to be bossed around
A healthy self-image, sure. But encouraging boasting for sake of "self-esteem" seems to me to be something we tolerate and/or encourage from people who probably have a lot of legitimate reasons to not think too highly of themselves. Reasons such as, being overweight and out-of-shape, not taking good care of themselves, etc.
We don't like it when people with actual talents and enviable qualities boast about it. We expect them to be modest and hold back on expressing any thought that might even resemble that they have very high opinions of themselves.
So encouraging certain people to do it seems to me to only be out of pity and because their boasts are not actually true and everyone knows it.
It's like the participation ribbon. Intended to help self-esteem but it might as well be the "You lose" ribbon. Only the losers get that ribbon and a condescending pat on the head.
Self esteem does not, in any way, equal boastfulness though.
I didn't say it did equal boastfulness. I said boasting is being encouraged for sake of self-esteem.Just because I know I'm smart doesn't mean I go around telling everyone that I am. It means I'm okay admitting so as it pertains to the conversation (as opposed to trying to deflect or minimize).
I don't expect anyone to be modest and I don't think talking about a talent you have (again, as it pertains to whatever conversation you're having) is a negative thing. I love watching people talk about things they are good at.
Boasting is talking with excessive pride. Just like anything else - in excess it's obnoxious. *shrug*
I don't like participation ribbons, but I don't think they are comparable to self esteem. Those contribute to an "everyone's a winner" mentality.
Modesty doesn't mean not acknowledging your worth or talents or achievements. That would be something more like false modesty or false humility.
What I am seeing from the fat is beautiful folks is in-your-face boasting and the encouragement of such. Imagine if this behavior was conducted by conventionally beautiful people, or if they were encouraged to do it. It would be obnoxious. And I think that is because they actually are beautiful. Whereas the former group are actually not, but hey, whatever for sake of fostering self-esteem of the pitiable.
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Lourdesong wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »TheVirgoddess wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »I have body image issues, but I find it condescending when any movement tries to get me to chant that I'm beautiful.
You don't have to convince beautiful people to chant that they are beautiful.
The whole self-esteem stuff just comes off as false to me, like giving everyone a sticker or a participation ribbon. Who showcases that on their mantel?
For me the whole self esteem stuff matters, because I'm raising two girls. I want them to know it's okay to think they are good at something, or smart, or kind - that it's not immodest or wrong to celebrate things you like about yourself. I don't want them to fall into the same self loathing trap loop that I did.
I do agree about the chanting stuff though. I don't think I'm beautiful (and I'm super okay with that), so being told I must think that makes me uncomfortable. But I hate to be bossed around
A healthy self-image, sure. But encouraging boasting for sake of "self-esteem" seems to me to be something we tolerate and/or encourage from people who probably have a lot of legitimate reasons to not think too highly of themselves. Reasons such as, being overweight and out-of-shape, not taking good care of themselves, etc.
We don't like it when people with actual talents and enviable qualities boast about it. We expect them to be modest and hold back on expressing any thought that might even resemble that they have very high opinions of themselves.
So encouraging certain people to do it seems to me to only be out of pity and because their boasts are not actually true and everyone knows it.
It's like the participation ribbon. Intended to help self-esteem but it might as well be the "You lose" ribbon. Only the losers get that ribbon and a condescending pat on the head.
Self esteem does not, in any way, equal boastfulness though.
I didn't say it did equal boastfulness. I said boasting is being encouraged for sake of self-esteem.Just because I know I'm smart doesn't mean I go around telling everyone that I am. It means I'm okay admitting so as it pertains to the conversation (as opposed to trying to deflect or minimize).
I don't expect anyone to be modest and I don't think talking about a talent you have (again, as it pertains to whatever conversation you're having) is a negative thing. I love watching people talk about things they are good at.
Boasting is talking with excessive pride. Just like anything else - in excess it's obnoxious. *shrug*
I don't like participation ribbons, but I don't think they are comparable to self esteem. Those contribute to an "everyone's a winner" mentality.
Modesty doesn't mean not acknowledging your worth or talents or achievements. That would be something more like false modesty or false humility.
What I am seeing from the fat is beautiful folks is in-your-face boasting and the encouragement of such. Imagine if this behavior was conducted by conventionally beautiful people, or if they were encouraged to do it. It would be obnoxious. And I think that is because they actually are beautiful. Whereas the former group are actually not, but hey, whatever for sake of fostering self-esteem of the pitiable.
The "fat" are "pitiable"?
Really, you went there?
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It's a double line sword.. really is. Body image issues suck but I know that if I didn't have any, I would probably not have gone through the steps to lose weight (and my health was fine, really, but let's stop the denial there - there were issues I didn't notice until I lost weight, and for how long was it going to be fine anyway?).
And I'll never think it's ok when I see mothers of obese or underweight kids telling them that they should love themselves the way they are, instead of doing something about it... it's a VERY fine line.
Athletes being obese is another thing entirely though... they obviously don't have the same bodyfat % and it's really what matters.
The bolded part is one of the main reasons I believe I have self-esteem issues. My mom put me on a diet at 10 while she fed my brothers oreos. Throughout HS, I was constantly trying to lose weight. When I was in college, my mom told me I could get a better job if I lost weight. This stemmed from her having her own EDs and projecting them onto me.
You tell your children you love them. You teach them good habits. You don't shame them into thinking they aren't good enough because they prefer to cook and read books instead of run outside and eat carrots.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
The "fat" are "pitiable"?
Really, you went there?
Read the whole conversation. I am among this pitiable group that needs a self-esteem boost so is being encouraged to boast about qualities I do not possess.
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Lourdesong wrote: »seltzermint wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Woman Within is one of the most amusing plus size companies I've seen. Not only do they do the most absurd vanity sizing I've ever come across, the models they use are so slim that the clothes are baggy as heck on them, like they belong on someone 75 lbs heavier.
Yet, they're a very popular plus size clothing retailer despite this.
I touched on this in an earlier post...but I really think thin-looking "plus size" models are part of the appeal for many women shopping plus.
I think some women look at those catalogs and others, thinking "well this woman is all proportional and lovely, but she's plus sized" and they aspire to be like that as well. They may naively imagine that's what the slightly smaller sizes like 12-14 look like (assuming they wear larger plus sizes) - I honestly thought that myself for years. I'm sure part of it is also imagining that the clothes' clever designs are really working to disguise "flaws" and unwanted extra pounds.
Is that a little nuts? Of course. Denial plays a huge role. But also, I think most of us have our favorite body parts and not so favorite, regardless of weight. As silly & shallow as it sounds when I'd see photos of plus size models who were truly plus size, even though they might weigh the same as I did, I couldn't help but think "yes but my arms are not quite like that thank goodness" and other ridiculous judgy thoughts. I think for some, seeing clothes on a regular everyday person is more disturbing than seeing them on a thin model and while that may be sad, it's one of the MAJOR reasons you don't see more truly plus models...yet?
Target has a new plus line coming out and I noticed some of the models are very much outside the norm. I looked at the photos and part of me was like "that looks fantastic" while another part of me was thinking "hmmm they are not going to sell skinny jeans to a plus sized teenager when they're on someone who looks (to their eye) like their dowdy History teacher".
http://www.refinery29.com/2015/01/81102/target-plus-size-lookbook-ava-viv#slide
Advertising/marketing is all about fantasy and that is going to take a lot to completely change.
Just my thoughts.
Apologies for not having time to respond to this yesterday. Interesting article about Target, I didn't even know about the past controversies they've had over plus size so catching up on that drama was pretty interesting as well.
I agree with your points. Marketing isn't about honesty, often the underlying message is "This good will make your life easier/better/complete", thinner models do tend to appear more effortless than heavier models, even so for the models of misses sizes, the bigger the model, the less effortless they appear. The plus size model in the article does not look effortless in the least to me, how many hours did it take to get her stuffed into her garb? The plus size models modeling Targets new plus size clothing also look stuffed and tucked and complicated, their clothes do not look effortless or like my life would be made any easier by owning them.
I've been shopping for a new bathrobe and in my searches I've come across many housecoat type robes and find myself amused that these garments that are mostly popular among aged women are modeled by 20-something women. Made me wonder if the housecoats don't sell as well if they are modeled by the demographic that typically purchases housecoats.
Thanks for your response! It sounds like you truly get what I'm talking about, and I'm glad that someone enjoyed that Target link as much as I did.
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Lourdesong, you sound just like people who are put off by "excessive" displays of affection by gay people in public... Frankly, you are espousing weight bias.
Everyone deserves respect at all sizes. Everyone deserves to feel attractive and worthy. Sometimes you have to fight to feel that way about yourself because you get the message over and over it's not true.
I know that many people do not see me as beautiful because of my size. However, that does not mean it is true for all people. And it does me no good to buy into that. So I will accept myself as an imperfect, fat woman, with generous curves and all that goes along with that. I am beautiful, and I am ugly, and I am myself.
I am also someone who is absolutely 100% committed to being healthy. For me that involves eating well, being active, and losing weight. Accepting myself enables me to do this in a more realistic, kind, and sustainable way than any shame or self-criticism would do.
I'm 100% about size acceptance, health at every size, and self-compassion. A big component of self-compassion is knowing and doing what is right for you. For me, that is losing weight and being body positive all along the way.0 -
Lourdesong wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »
The "fat" are "pitiable"?
Really, you went there?
Read the whole conversation. I am among this pitiable group that needs a self-esteem boost so is being encouraged to boast about qualities I do not possess.
So only the fat that don't have self esteem are pitiable?
And it's ok to call them that if you belong to them. Got it.0 -
honkytonks85 wrote: »What always gets me is the assumption that being big = unhealthy lifestyle and being slim = healthy lifestyle. Not really the case. It is possible to be overweight and still be healthy. It is possible to be slim and be unhealthy.
if you're 100 pounds overweight, how could you possibly have a healthy lifestyle?0
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