My 600 Pound Life?
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Lourdesong wrote: »If you want people to believe she's some faultless saint whose hands were tied and was an utter victim of her circumstances, good luck with that.
Her husband waved a burger in her face and refused to get her a salad. He didn't gang rape her. Get a grip.
Hmmm.
Who said that?
ANY of that?
Re: "Get a grip"...why so defensive? Just curious. How about just a normal, polite adult conversation?Lourdesong wrote: »As far as him wanting a happy 300 lb woman, if she was 300 when they met (she looked a lot bigger, but I don't recall the number they said she was so I'll take 300 for sake of argument) then he had to have been into feederism or something because she was hundreds of pounds larger than that when he was waving burgers in her face.
Whoa, assumptions much? Not sure where you're getting any of this...? I am much heavier than I was when my husband met me and I can assure you he is not into feederism. There is NO reason to believe that because she continued to get bigger after they married, it must be because he's a feeder...my goodness, that's quite a leap.
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Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
She'd been active on general BBW boards for a while beforehand. I posted something a while back on the second point, but I don't want to get into trouble here.
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Lourdesong wrote: »If you want people to believe she's some faultless saint whose hands were tied and was an utter victim of her circumstances, good luck with that.
Her husband waved a burger in her face and refused to get her a salad. He didn't gang rape her. Get a grip.
Hmmm.
Who said that?
ANY of that?
Re: "Get a grip"...why so defensive? Just curious. How about just a normal, polite adult conversation?Lourdesong wrote: »As far as him wanting a happy 300 lb woman, if she was 300 when they met (she looked a lot bigger, but I don't recall the number they said she was so I'll take 300 for sake of argument) then he had to have been into feederism or something because she was hundreds of pounds larger than that when he was waving burgers in her face.
Whoa, assumptions much? Not sure where you're getting any of this...? I am much heavier than I was when my husband met me and I can assure you he is not into feederism. There is NO reason to believe that because she continued to get bigger after they married, it must be because he's a feeder...my goodness, that's quite a leap.
The accusation of victim-blaming is generally reserved for rape and domestic abuse apologists. It's a dark and uncharitable accusation, not an innocent observation.
As far as leaps, I was speculating, given that he didn't want her to lose any weight, not even the 300 or so estimated pounds she gained since they were married. Forgive me, but could the same be said of your husband?
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deathninja82 wrote: »Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
She'd been active on general BBW boards for a while beforehand. I posted something a while back on the second point, but I don't want to get into trouble here.
Oh, I see, thank you. So they met via a BBW board? Just as non-overweight people meet through meetup boards, both general and specific (race-specific, body-specific, age-specific, religious-specific, interests-specific and so on) boards? (BBW boards being important to overweight women who may indeed have trouble finding men who will love both their minds and their bodies, but who want to have love, homes, possibly families and so on.)
Okay, so she had been on BBW boards. Which would have seemed like a good place for a very overweight woman looking for love to be - not looking for a feeder (isn't that a pretty small subset of the population?) or a fetishist, per se, but someone who was going to love her despite her size? The way, for instance, a Christian person might go on Christian Mingle-type boards since that was their specific interest, that sort of thing? Without those people being communion wafer fetishists or something.
I do also know she had a "site" or channel of some kind...again, something some thin women do too, but we don't point our fingers saying they later deserve what they can get if they wind up abused. Why? Because they had their own reasons - perhaps money, perhaps a desperate need for attention. That's the point - there could be ANY reason and who's to judge or claim they somehow psychically know? They wanted someone to love them, that's about all we know. Which isn't unusual. Some may have very low self-esteem. Which isn't unusual either.
None of it really points to "she knew what she was getting into," IMO. She may have thought she found a man who loved her AND her body, something many people have trouble finding - and not just overweight people, either. I really, really doubt she should have anticipated abuse and that she brought it all on herself/it's her comeuppance for having accepted herself as very overweight, which has been both intimated and outright stated here.
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I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.0
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Okay, so she had been on BBW boards. Which would have been a good place for a very overweight woman looking for love to be - not looking for a feeder (isn't that a pretty small subset of the population) or a fetishist, per se, but someone who was going to love her despite her size? The way, for instance, a Christian person might go on Christian Mingle-type boards since that was their specific interest, that sort of thing?
Kind of, a lot of them involve posting images as a confidence thing, general chat, dating, some are a bit more, erm, direct... You'll find feeders and gainers on all of them, the latter's quite a common angle with the models/would-be models, but there it's completely different as it's the woman in control of her own body. I wouldn't say feederism is 'rare', but it's definately not the norm, and there's varying degrees (foodplay being fairly common, but even so about as common as a cheat day).I do also know she had a "site" or channel of some kind...again, something some thin women do too, but we don't point our fingers saying they later deserve what they can get if they wind up abused. Why? Because they had their own reasons - perhaps money, perhaps a desperate need for attention. That's the point - there could be ANY reason and who's to judge or claim they somehow psychically know? They wanted someone to love them, that's about all we know. Which isn't unusual. Some may have very low self-esteem. Which isn't unusual either.
The BBW/SSBBW scene can actually be quite lucrative, as well as being a confidence thing, the difference between camming and a relationship is that there's little outside pressure to gain/change in the former.None of it really points to "she knew what she was getting into," IMO. She may have thought she found a man who loved her AND her body, something many people have trouble finding - and not just overweight people, either. I really, really doubt she should have anticipated abuse and that she brought it all on herself/it's her comeuppance for having accepted herself as very overweight, which has been both intimated and outright stated here.
Not seen the show, but I'm guessing she neglected to mention she was actively gaining herself for a while beforehand? IIRC she was comfortable around 350-400, but then I presume he took over. And there it's toxic because with the increased weight is increased dependency, where it's practically a prisoner relationship. While sometimes that goes down well with both parties, when it's non-consensual it's totally unacceptable, as in this case.
While I can understand that people unfamiliar with the (Culture?, Scene?, Lifestyle?) may find it hard to comprehend her choices, it boils down to her originally making a choice, with HER body and HER life, then having that taken away from her. No-one deserves that, let alone being told she "brought it on herself" (no-one dares try that argument re: short skirts & sex attacks, so why anywhere else?), but I'm seeing that line a lot here, sadly.0 -
Yeah, it's uncanny how much he resembles me. He must get that all the time.
I agree, and yet there was also something positive about that group in affirming themselves as valuable and appealing even though they were at the opposite extreme of the culturally defined image of attractiveness.Lourdesong wrote: »... My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
I just wanted to say I love your profile pic Sean Connery is THE man.
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deathninja82 wrote: »
Not seen the show, but I'm guessing she neglected to mention she was actively gaining herself for a while beforehand? IIRC she was comfortable around 350-400, but then I presume he took over. And there it's toxic because with the increased weight is increased dependency, where it's practically a prisoner relationship. While sometimes that goes down well with both parties, when it's non-consensual it's totally unacceptable, as in this case.
Wow, no, I definitely don't remember hearing this on the show, unless I missed it. Where did you hear this?
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Thank you @LAwoman72 for a good analogy.
Say someone met her husband on a Christian dating site, and maybe they were both Baptists but just regular, and then he decided after they married that they were going full on Evangelical Fundie and she had no say in the matter. Would that be her fault? Should she have expected it?
Zsalynn WAS in fact abused, we all saw it on camera. So to say she got herself into it and should have known better is straight up blaming her for it.0 -
levitateme wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
Hmmmm.
I'm wondering what non-fat "fetishist" sites don't involve the men scrolling through pictures and making sure the woman they choose to contact will give them a boner (and you can be darned sure there are tons of bikini pics on dating sites - of thin women) consistently before contacting them since, you know, sexual attraction is part of a romantic relationship. Do you know of any? Go on lots of dating sites where no pictures are allowed, because unless they're all after one another for their hearts and brains first, they should expect to be abused? They know what they're getting into, etc.?
When you really, really, really love somebody's heart and brain but aren't sexually attracted to him/her, there's a simple word for that. That word is "friends." (Or possibly "mother," "father" or "sibling.")
The take-home here being "pretty much every instance of a man approaching a woman for a romantic partnership necessarily requires he be sexually attracted to her, but while thin people shouldn't expect a negative result due to that simple, biological fact, fat people should expect it, because it's a 'culture' with a 'predictable' outcome. This should be the obvious expectation of any fat person who dares to want a relationship, so the blame is on her."
I disagree. However, I don't know about the "culture" of fat "fetishists" so I am going to take your word for this.
Now before you say "but these are specifically fat fetishist sites!," I think fat people do know the playing field is smaller. They must. Therefore the people they seek must necessarily enjoy or at least not mind the weight when it comes to a romantic relationship; ergo, sites specifically for heavier people, because on regular dating sites, they will definitely be passed by. But I'm not sure that has to fall under "fetishist" in every case nor do I think the person can expect abuse and "know what she is getting into" and that the relationship is doomed. There are sites specifically for black people; I doubt you could classify all visitors as fetishists and state "well, then, any black woman on the site knows what she's getting into, with a predictable outcome." Same with Christian sites...sites for people over 50...dating sites for any specific category of individuals.
Fat fetishists, or "feeders" prefer for their women to be fat and are turned on by their partner getting fatter. I don't condone these men being abusive, but if they are meeting their wives on fat fetishist websites, that in itself is saying "i don't want you to lose weight." It's not about "not minding" that someone is fat, it's about preferring an obese mate.
Look at Betty-jo and her husband, he didn't want her to lose weight because part of his fetish is knowing his partner is immobile and needs him to care for her.
Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
I see. I thought someone in the thread mentioned that she had previously posed online on a fetish website. I know Pauline used to do that.
The fat acceptance movement isn't the same as fat fetishism. And fat fetishists are not necessarily feeders, but most of the dudes on this show seem to be specifically into super-morbidly obese women. Zsallyn (not sure of correct spelling) - her husband made a comment that he "married a happy fat girl" and expected that she'd stay such, not that she'd eventually want to lose the weight. I don't really see having a specific sexual preference as "abuse" like a lot of people seem to. I don't remember the whole episode, but I recall that he was a jerk and not supportive of her diet but it was because he wanted a fat wife because that's his preference.
Physical attraction is important in a relationship and if one partner goes through a tremendous change either by losing OR gaining a lot of weight, it would be understandable if the other partner is no longer attracted to them. If you really love someone, you may be able to overlook it, but obviously that wasn't the case for Z's husband. All of these women would be better off if they dumped all the enablers in their lives anyway so good thing he's gone.0 -
Actually, a better analogy might be that someone met her husband on a Christian website, and they were both regular boring Baptists, and then the wife decided that Christianity is more destructive than helpful or is a lie and not true and she always kind of knew that but never wanted to come to terms with her doubts, and so becomes an atheist.
Then, surprise surprise to no one, her husband is still a Christian and still wants a wife that is a Christian. Perhaps even going to so far as to wave a crucifix in his atheist wife's face. While wrong, not surprising.
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deathninja82 wrote: »
Not seen the show, but I'm guessing she neglected to mention she was actively gaining herself for a while beforehand? IIRC she was comfortable around 350-400, but then I presume he took over. And there it's toxic because with the increased weight is increased dependency, where it's practically a prisoner relationship. While sometimes that goes down well with both parties, when it's non-consensual it's totally unacceptable, as in this case.
Wow, no, I definitely don't remember hearing this on the show, unless I missed it. Where did you hear this?
I used to see her around on some of the message boards years ago, at least that was her stance back then. Then again it was also a common angle for a lot of the models and aspiring models (the higher you go, the more of a niche for your site).
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shortntall1 wrote: »I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.
That is awesome! Go, you!
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levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
Hmmmm.
I'm wondering what non-fat "fetishist" sites don't involve the men scrolling through pictures and making sure the woman they choose to contact will give them a boner (and you can be darned sure there are tons of bikini pics on dating sites - of thin women) consistently before contacting them since, you know, sexual attraction is part of a romantic relationship. Do you know of any? Go on lots of dating sites where no pictures are allowed, because unless they're all after one another for their hearts and brains first, they should expect to be abused? They know what they're getting into, etc.?
When you really, really, really love somebody's heart and brain but aren't sexually attracted to him/her, there's a simple word for that. That word is "friends." (Or possibly "mother," "father" or "sibling.")
The take-home here being "pretty much every instance of a man approaching a woman for a romantic partnership necessarily requires he be sexually attracted to her, but while thin people shouldn't expect a negative result due to that simple, biological fact, fat people should expect it, because it's a 'culture' with a 'predictable' outcome. This should be the obvious expectation of any fat person who dares to want a relationship, so the blame is on her."
I disagree. However, I don't know about the "culture" of fat "fetishists" so I am going to take your word for this.
Now before you say "but these are specifically fat fetishist sites!," I think fat people do know the playing field is smaller. They must. Therefore the people they seek must necessarily enjoy or at least not mind the weight when it comes to a romantic relationship; ergo, sites specifically for heavier people, because on regular dating sites, they will definitely be passed by. But I'm not sure that has to fall under "fetishist" in every case nor do I think the person can expect abuse and "know what she is getting into" and that the relationship is doomed. There are sites specifically for black people; I doubt you could classify all visitors as fetishists and state "well, then, any black woman on the site knows what she's getting into, with a predictable outcome." Same with Christian sites...sites for people over 50...dating sites for any specific category of individuals.
Fat fetishists, or "feeders" prefer for their women to be fat and are turned on by their partner getting fatter. I don't condone these men being abusive, but if they are meeting their wives on fat fetishist websites, that in itself is saying "i don't want you to lose weight." It's not about "not minding" that someone is fat, it's about preferring an obese mate.
Look at Betty-jo and her husband, he didn't want her to lose weight because part of his fetish is knowing his partner is immobile and needs him to care for her.
Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
I see. I thought someone in the thread mentioned that she had previously posed online on a fetish website. I know Pauline used to do that.
The fat acceptance movement isn't the same as fat fetishism. And fat fetishists are not necessarily feeders, but most of the dudes on this show seem to be specifically into super-morbidly obese women. Zsallyn (not sure of correct spelling) - her husband made a comment that he "married a happy fat girl" and expected that she'd stay such, not that she'd eventually want to lose the weight. I don't really see having a specific sexual preference as "abuse" like a lot of people seem to. I don't remember the whole episode, but I recall that he was a jerk and not supportive of her diet but it was because he wanted a fat wife because that's his preference.
Physical attraction is important in a relationship and if one partner goes through a tremendous change either by losing OR gaining a lot of weight, it would be understandable if the other partner is no longer attracted to them. If you really love someone, you may be able to overlook it, but obviously that wasn't the case for Z's husband. All of these women would be better off if they dumped all the enablers in their lives anyway so good thing he's gone.
I don't see simply not being very supportive of her weight loss, or losing attraction to her, as abuse - I see the nasty things he said to both her and her daughter (so what did the daughter do to "deserve" it?? Was she too fat? Not fat enough...? What?), as well as actions such as pushing a burger in her face driving home from her WLS, then commanding that she hold his burger for him and then laughing at her, as abuse. The woman was, what, two days, three days max post-op? And ALL the jeering, making fun and literally laughing at her and in her face. Yes, I see that as abusive. That's WAY farther than just not being overly supportive. Not everyone is supportive of our weight loss efforts, that's just a given. But there's a difference between not being a rah-rah cheerleader, and basically telling a person she's repellant, she is definitely going to fail, and laughing outright at her when she takes walks and so on.
As for simply preferring overweight women: I don't know that anyone here has said that having a specific sexual preference is abuse. If he wasn't attracted to her any more after she lost weight, then he wasn't, and probably, that would be something he couldn't help. But it was nowhere near just that.
My husband is extremely obese and I am not sexually attracted to him right now. I don't tell him that he's repellant to me right now or jeer at and laugh at him or yank food from under his face (the parallel for Gareth shoving food under Z's face). If I did, I would fully expect him to leave me. I'd deserve it. He is still a human being and doesn't automatically become less of a human being because *I* have a specific preference.
Nor would he deserve my abuse because he was much thinner when I met him so he must have "known what he was in for" and that if he veered from that body type, I would automatically turn around and act worse toward him than I'd ever act toward an animal - shoving food in its face that it couldn't physically eat and then laughing at it, abusing its offspring and so on.
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Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.0
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Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
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shortntall1 wrote: »I was 315lbs and in bad shape when I watched that show. I literally said to myself, "Omg..Im over halfway there!" and I cried and cried. Then and there I decided to get my act together and my life in order. That was last March. Ive worked my tushy off to drop 111lbs through diet and exercise. I have 40ish more to go. I have little patience for those like Penny.
Wow - fantastic!
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Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Who has argued that Zsalynn deserves abuse? I feel like some people are arguing against points that NO ONE has made.
Perhaps there's a distinction here and perhaps you're correct. The argument was that she "knew what she was in for." The intimation on the heels of that is that she should have expected it and hence, has no right to be upset by/object to it.
So perhaps you're right, technically.
The bolded doesn't follow. She has every right to be upset and object, even her husband's behavior was expected and predictable and so on.
Even when taken in context along with the whole "she is to blame" for accepting herself bit...?
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levitateme wrote: »levitateme wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
Hmmmm.
I'm wondering what non-fat "fetishist" sites don't involve the men scrolling through pictures and making sure the woman they choose to contact will give them a boner (and you can be darned sure there are tons of bikini pics on dating sites - of thin women) consistently before contacting them since, you know, sexual attraction is part of a romantic relationship. Do you know of any? Go on lots of dating sites where no pictures are allowed, because unless they're all after one another for their hearts and brains first, they should expect to be abused? They know what they're getting into, etc.?
When you really, really, really love somebody's heart and brain but aren't sexually attracted to him/her, there's a simple word for that. That word is "friends." (Or possibly "mother," "father" or "sibling.")
The take-home here being "pretty much every instance of a man approaching a woman for a romantic partnership necessarily requires he be sexually attracted to her, but while thin people shouldn't expect a negative result due to that simple, biological fact, fat people should expect it, because it's a 'culture' with a 'predictable' outcome. This should be the obvious expectation of any fat person who dares to want a relationship, so the blame is on her."
I disagree. However, I don't know about the "culture" of fat "fetishists" so I am going to take your word for this.
Now before you say "but these are specifically fat fetishist sites!," I think fat people do know the playing field is smaller. They must. Therefore the people they seek must necessarily enjoy or at least not mind the weight when it comes to a romantic relationship; ergo, sites specifically for heavier people, because on regular dating sites, they will definitely be passed by. But I'm not sure that has to fall under "fetishist" in every case nor do I think the person can expect abuse and "know what she is getting into" and that the relationship is doomed. There are sites specifically for black people; I doubt you could classify all visitors as fetishists and state "well, then, any black woman on the site knows what she's getting into, with a predictable outcome." Same with Christian sites...sites for people over 50...dating sites for any specific category of individuals.
Fat fetishists, or "feeders" prefer for their women to be fat and are turned on by their partner getting fatter. I don't condone these men being abusive, but if they are meeting their wives on fat fetishist websites, that in itself is saying "i don't want you to lose weight." It's not about "not minding" that someone is fat, it's about preferring an obese mate.
Look at Betty-jo and her husband, he didn't want her to lose weight because part of his fetish is knowing his partner is immobile and needs him to care for her.
Well, AFAIK, the husband didn't meet her via a fat fetishist site; he met her at a fat acceptance gathering (somebody correct me as I could be wrong about this) and I don't believe the FA movement is exclusively about feederism...?
I see. I thought someone in the thread mentioned that she had previously posed online on a fetish website. I know Pauline used to do that.
The fat acceptance movement isn't the same as fat fetishism. And fat fetishists are not necessarily feeders, but most of the dudes on this show seem to be specifically into super-morbidly obese women. Zsallyn (not sure of correct spelling) - her husband made a comment that he "married a happy fat girl" and expected that she'd stay such, not that she'd eventually want to lose the weight. I don't really see having a specific sexual preference as "abuse" like a lot of people seem to. I don't remember the whole episode, but I recall that he was a jerk and not supportive of her diet but it was because he wanted a fat wife because that's his preference.
Physical attraction is important in a relationship and if one partner goes through a tremendous change either by losing OR gaining a lot of weight, it would be understandable if the other partner is no longer attracted to them. If you really love someone, you may be able to overlook it, but obviously that wasn't the case for Z's husband. All of these women would be better off if they dumped all the enablers in their lives anyway so good thing he's gone.
I don't see simply not being very supportive of her weight loss, or losing attraction to her, as abuse - I see the nasty things he said to both her and her daughter (so what did the daughter do to "deserve" it?? Was she too fat? Not fat enough...? What?), as well as actions such as pushing a burger in her face driving home from her WLS, then commanding that she hold his burger for him and then laughing at her, as abuse. The woman was, what, two days, three days max post-op? And ALL the jeering, making fun and literally laughing at her and in her face. Yes, I see that as abusive. That's WAY farther than just not being overly supportive. Not everyone is supportive of our weight loss efforts, that's just a given. But there's a difference between not being a rah-rah cheerleader, and basically telling a person she's repellant, she is definitely going to fail, and laughing outright at her when she takes walks and so on.
As for simply preferring overweight women: I don't know that anyone here has said that having a specific sexual preference is abuse. If he wasn't attracted to her any more after she lost weight, then he wasn't, and probably, that would be something he couldn't help. But it was nowhere near just that.
My husband is extremely obese and I am not sexually attracted to him right now. I don't tell him that he's repellant to me right now or jeer at and laugh at him or yank food from under his face (the parallel for Gareth shoving food under Z's face). If I did, I would fully expect him to leave me. I'd deserve it. He is still a human being and doesn't automatically become less of a human being because *I* have a specific preference.
Nor would he deserve my abuse because he was much thinner when I met him so he must have "known what he was in for" and that if he veered from that body type, I would automatically turn around and act worse toward him than I'd ever act toward an animal - shoving food in its face that it couldn't physically eat and then laughing at it, abusing its offspring and so on.
If you read my post, i said i didn't recall what happened in the episode, all I remember is him being a jerk and saying he married a fat woman because he likes fat women and didn't expect her to eventually decide to lose weight. I never said she deserved abuse, I was not sure what people were talking about when they mentioned that she was abused so I mentioned a few reasons that get thrown around the boards. YES I have seen people say that their partner mentioning that they gained weight is abusive. It's not.
This is obviously an emotional topic for you because of your husband and your analogies don't make sense. I am willing to bet you didn't start dating him specifically because he was thin. Z's husband started dating her specifically because she was fat and wanted her to remain fat.
You don't have to be rude and dehumanize your husband to tell him you think he needs to lose weight.
Where did I say I condoned treating obese people like they aren't humans?0
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