"Clean" eating vs. Moderation- what works for you?
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I eat in moderation, making sure I hit macs and mics.
Lost 121 pounds, been maintaining for almost 6 months now.
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Moderation for sure. I've noticed in the short term that cutting out refined sugars does seem to help weight drop off at the beginning, but that's not a sustainable lifestyle for me.0
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Honestly, I believe in both. I like starting off by completely eating clean. No breads, pastas, or extra carbs. A strict diet of protein/veggies/fruits. It helps me clean my slate completely and helps me stop having cravings for certain things. After about a month or so of this I eat in moderation but I stay away from fatty beef/pork and white pastas/breads/rice. I limit myself to things that I know I will get carried away with.0
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PrizePopple wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Aren't moderation and clean eating (depending on your definition) essentially the same thing? Eating the majority of your calories in nutrient rich foods with some room for less nutritionally dense foods? That's exactly what I do and what has been working for me. Call it "clean + treats", call it moderation, call it whatever you want. The problem is that those who call it clean eating build a straw man of people living on nothing but brownies. Even by moderation standards this is not sustainable nor realistic, since you would be hungry all the time.
And then there are different kinds of moderation. Some eat a square of chocolate every days, others eat a whole bar every few days/weeks. For me, I do a little of both. I can easily have a mini chocolate and be satisfied, but I can't easily have a sliver of cheesecake and be done with it. So I just have a normal-large slice of cheesecake, make up for it, and don't do it often.
Me too!0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Aren't moderation and clean eating (depending on your definition) essentially the same thing? Eating the majority of your calories in nutrient rich foods with some room for less nutritionally dense foods? That's exactly what I do and what has been working for me. Call it "clean + treats", call it moderation, call it whatever you want. The problem is that those who call it clean eating build a straw man of people living on nothing but brownies. Even by moderation standards this is not sustainable nor realistic, since you would be hungry all the time.
And then there are different kinds of moderation. Some eat a square of chocolate every days, others eat a whole bar every few days/weeks. For me, I do a little of both. I can easily have a mini chocolate and be satisfied, but I can't easily have a sliver of cheesecake and be done with it. So I just have a normal-large slice of cheesecake, make up for it, and don't do it often.
Me too!
OMG I so would ...
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In the past 5 years or so, I have really noticed what seems to be an enormous shift in what is considered the "ideal" diet. So much emphasis is now placed on eating only whole, unprocessed foods, no added sugar, nothing artificial, ditch "white" carbs, etc. Paleo this, Whole 30 that, don't eat gluten, don't eat bread, etc. I totally get that nutrition and weight loss are two totally different things. What I am curious about is how are "real" people who are currently *successfully* losing weight actually eating? Do you have the occasional bowl of sugar cereal if it fits into your calorie allowance, or are your 1200 calories (or whatever your number is) strictly filled with vegetables, nuts, and organic chicken breasts? I want to know what REALLY works for you, not just what is "ideal".
I'm at maintenance. But am also in menopause, so I'm keeping the same close eye on things.
I've been maintaining for 14 years.
Not clean. Not moderation. I eat the way that works for me.
I try to eat a primarily whole food plant based diet. Lots of vegetables, legumes, nuts and seeds, some fruit, 100% whole grains, dairy, some seafood, some red meat.
I DON'T eat much in the way of heavily refined carbs. I don't eat much refined sugar. To me: both are a waste of calories and don't work well with *my* lifestyle. (they don't fill me up, and don't fuel my body.)
I've been eating this way for 14 years. I did go gluten free for about 2 years in the middle. But I found that it wasn't the gluten that bothered my stomach, because it hurt after a gluten free whole grain breads as well.
I don't eat "sugar" cereal, but will have a nice hearty cereal from time to time.
I don't count calories per se. And no, I don't stay at 1200.
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definitely moderation/IIFYM approach. losing weight is hard enough as it is for some people, why add even more pressure to be perfect?0
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Aren't moderation and clean eating (depending on your definition) essentially the same thing? Eating the majority of your calories in nutrient rich foods with some room for less nutritionally dense foods? That's exactly what I do and what has been working for me. Call it "clean + treats", call it moderation, call it whatever you want. The problem is that those who call it clean eating build a straw man of people living on nothing but brownies. Even by moderation standards this is not sustainable nor realistic, since you would be hungry all the time.
And then there are different kinds of moderation. Some eat a square of chocolate every days, others eat a whole bar every few days/weeks. For me, I do a little of both. I can easily have a mini chocolate and be satisfied, but I can't easily have a sliver of cheesecake and be done with it. So I just have a normal-large slice of cheesecake, make up for it, and don't do it often.
Me too!Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Aren't moderation and clean eating (depending on your definition) essentially the same thing? Eating the majority of your calories in nutrient rich foods with some room for less nutritionally dense foods? That's exactly what I do and what has been working for me. Call it "clean + treats", call it moderation, call it whatever you want. The problem is that those who call it clean eating build a straw man of people living on nothing but brownies. Even by moderation standards this is not sustainable nor realistic, since you would be hungry all the time.
And then there are different kinds of moderation. Some eat a square of chocolate every days, others eat a whole bar every few days/weeks. For me, I do a little of both. I can easily have a mini chocolate and be satisfied, but I can't easily have a sliver of cheesecake and be done with it. So I just have a normal-large slice of cheesecake, make up for it, and don't do it often.
Me too!
OMG I so would ...
Add me to the list
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Unlike many of the posters here, moderation is something I just can't handle - one slice of cake sends my mind into a food-craving frenzy...never a good idea for me. Also, when I eat 'clean' (i.e. lean meat, veg, fruit), I feel more positive mentally
One thing which surprises me is that people don't want to categorise 'good' and 'bad' foods. For the record, I completely support whatever healthy methods everyone here has used to lose weight, but am curious how, for example, pizza cannot be considered a 'bad' food, considering the chemicals etc. companies add to it?
Again, I am not in any way knocking the IIFYM method, but am just questioning the idea that broccoli is as 'good' a food as pizza?
ain't no chemicals (by which I assume you mean preservatives / MSG) in the fresh made pizza I eat - but it's full of calcium, vitamin A, vitamin C, yummy carbs etc
Dependent on your nutritional needs a pizza (even a pre-made shop-bought one) could be better for you than that brocolli
also - have you ever seen the chemical breakdown of what you would call 'good' foods
STRAW MAN BERRIES0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »This comes up a lot, and it never ends well.
Most of the successful people on the site had success learning how to fit the foods that they love into their calorie/macro goals. Once you hit your protein/fat goals, and you have calories leftover, eat a bowl of ice cream or a candy bar if you want. Or some Doritos. Or have a beer. There is no harm in fitting "junk" food (which is in quotations because there really is no junk food, all food is energy and fuel for your body) into an otherwise healthy diet.
Then you get the people who will fight to the death to tell you that eating "clean" is the only way. But they then tell you not to pay attention to the pina coladas in their diary, or that brownie they had yesterday because they had a bad day. When in reality they are practicing moderation as well, but for some reason having that label of "clean eating" makes them feel better about themselves.
I'm personally a member of the former group, and I've lost 6 pounds since January.
This is exactly my take on all of this. I am by no stretch of the imagination an expert on anything, especially weight loss. But what I have learned after years of trying everything from no/low carb diets to WW to killing myself with T25 while not knowing how to control my food intake is that you have to moderate. Everything in moderation, plain and simple.
But what I have also learned, since I began this particular journey at the first of January, is that now that I am controlling what I put into my mouth everyday, that I want the yucky stuff less and less. I allow myself the occasional cookie, mac and cheese, etc, all within my calorie limits for the day. But I am learning that those things aren't necessarily worth it to me anymore. Eating a bowl of fresh cut pineapple is far more mentally satisfying to me that 1 cookie or a small bowl of chips.0 -
Moderation is the key to everything. Clean eating is a myth (http://evidencemag.com/clean-eating/)0
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holliebaker90 wrote: »Honestly, I believe in both. I like starting off by completely eating clean. No breads, pastas, or extra carbs. A strict diet of protein/veggies/fruits. It helps me clean my slate completely and helps me stop having cravings for certain things. After about a month or so of this I eat in moderation but I stay away from fatty beef/pork and white pastas/breads/rice. I limit myself to things that I know I will get carried away with.
See, this just goes to show what a vague term "clean" is, though. I'm a vegetarian who needs a moderate amount of carbs to not feel lethargic/over hungry. I get my protein from eggs, dairy, beans, and legumes. I do love my non-starchy veggies too. That's my usual, day-to-day diet. I supplement my protein intake with limited ingredient protein powder or protein bars. It's pretty clean, from a vegetarian perspective. No meat analogs, I make most of my food from scratch.
So, what exactly is clean?
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I don't tend to label how I eat but when trying to lose weight I go for moderation. I also try and meet my protein, fat and fibre goals by eating nutritious foods, which includes processed packaged foods, I just have to read the labels to make sure it fits with my personal nutrient goals.
Once I have met those goals then if I want some wine, ice cream or pizza why not?
Most peoples goals are personal to them, some for medical reasons, others because its about what we think we know based on our own understanding & research.
Things are always changing, look how long it has taken the scientific community to actually admit that the 'fat is bad' campaign' actually had no factual basis. What it did do was lead companies to load products with sugar and salt to put back the flavour they lost with the removal of the fat!
I try to be open minded about things because for every study someone posts there seems to another claiming the opposite. However I am probably not the only one who switches off when reading posts that come across as fanatical preaching about what THE WAY of eating is.0 -
I just try to find healthier versions of the things I like and eat the correct serving size. I've been making a lot of homemade flatbread pizzas, rather than splitting a stuffed bacon cheese crust pizza from Pizza Hut, for example.0
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So far moderation has helped me more than clean eating has. But when I lose all the weight I want to I'm going to focus more on clean eating than I am on moderation.0
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juliet3455 wrote: »My standard suggestion is to do some reading.
Visit the Eat-Train-Progress group and read the pinned topics. If you click on the little STAR you can bookmark the topic for future reference.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/10118-eat-train-progress
Read the information at these MFP post. They have links to multiple very good reads.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1080242/a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/833026/important-posts-to-read/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/categories/getting-started
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1234699/logging-accurately-step-by-step-guide/p1
Try the USDA site as a cross reference for nutrition values of different food diary entries.
http://ndb.nal.usda.gov/
A Recipe Swap Group
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/148-recipe-swap
A Recipe Blog Site
https://blog.myfitnesspal.com/category/eat/recipes/
Lots of great comments from everyone.
Some of these links will show up in the other Groups and discussions.
There are lots of other good groups and discussions with really good information and some with a more Social aspect.0 -
DebHutton55 wrote: »Eat the right carbs, proteins and fats. Watch the quantity. Move! There's the key to healthy living and an outcome in your later years that has you with your memory and the ability to move around with ease. If you are just eating for your weight, wise up. It's taken me most of my life to figure that out.
Someone said, sugar is nothing unless you have a medical condition. So wrong! Read, read, read. What all this stuff is doing to your brain, is more important than what it is doing to your butt.
Of course, eat an occasional bad but if you start eating correctly, you don't have that desire anymore.
are you going to clarify that or just make blanket statements about sugar...?0 -
tedboosalis7 wrote: »DebHutton55 wrote: »tedboosalis7 wrote: »DebHutton55 wrote: »Eat the right carbs, proteins and fats. Watch the quantity. Move! There's the key to healthy living and an outcome in your later years that has you with your memory and the ability to move around with ease. If you are just eating for your weight, wise up. It's taken me most of my life to figure that out.
Someone said, sugar is nothing unless you have a medical condition. So wrong! Read, read, read. What all this stuff is doing to your brain, is more important than what it is doing to your butt.
Of course, eat an occasional bad but if you start eating correctly, you don't have that desire anymore.
This is awesome. I love this statement: "What all this stuff is doing to your brain, is more important than what it is doing to your butt." Very well put. ♥
Some people tolerate a high carb diet better than others, certainly I am not in the lot of that kind of tolerance. I was borderline Type II and have an auto-immune disorder and had to change my diet completely - I lost the weight, gained muscle and strength, lost many of the symptoms of the auto-immune disorder (not all), and now awaiting my physical this week to check my blood work one year after I made this change.
I can say I have cheated maybe 5 times in one year - and during that time, it was morsels - I still eat chocolate but it has to be pure dark chocolate. I know what is good because I was a chocolatier at one time - successfully owned a business and sold it 5 years ago. I know what goes into confections and there's no way I would eat any of them now unless its pure dark chocolate. Chocolate has fiber - that makes it palatable to eat.
There's a real difference calorie for calorie between different foods - meat <> broccoli, for example. Both provide specific nutrients (or densities of nutrients) the other doesn't have. Further, to achieve the caloric equivalent of meat, it takes a hellalot of broccoli. Say an 8oz hamburger or salmon or tenderloin - take those three calorically and you would need to eat ALOT of broccoli - in fact, all three meats contain differences in nutrition unto themselves.
I do believe CICO matters but it matters within the context of your macros. For instance, not all fiber is digestible (insoluble v. soluble). Not all soluble fiber is digestible - those calories can essentially be thrown out - fiber is used by the body in a much different way than the "net" carb of that food. You can't store fiber (or most of it) because it's not made to be stored. It's made to be moved through the body and aids in the elimination process.
Protein requires protein calories to process it - then some protein is used for muscle synthesis and hypertrophy:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11255140
"Resistance exercise improves muscle protein balance, but, in the absence of food intake, the balance remains negative (i.e., catabolic)."
So one can "move around" but if one doesn't eat the required macro, one creates a catabolic state that in essence wipes out the whole concept of "moving around"!
The remaining protein is then "storable." So figure 33% of your protein calories are convertible to fat.
I don't think there's a magic number when it comes to weight loss - for instance, many purport that eating 1500 calories would garner weight loss - but 1500 calories of what - does that figure exercise into it, and is that enough to sustain muscles over the long-term? Does that raise the metabolic set point to where you need to eat even less once your metabolism slows to 1500?
That's the problem with looking at things from just the CICO perspective. I do agree (and often get mislabeled on here) that CICO matters, but it matters within the perspective of your macros, the kinds of foods you are eating, the processing (or lack thereof) of that food, and your body's metabolic resistance (or lack thereof) to certain macros and foods.
Thanks Ted! So many haters when it comes to "food talk". I stay informed and read everything I can. Looks like you do, also. Stress is another factor and I think I will walk away from this forum and instead, walk in the beautiful sunshiny eighteen below morning.
♥ Yeah I hear ya. Hormones - awesome suggestion.
Another is what you just described - it's much harder to lose fat during the winter months because the body is preserving as much fat as possible to stay warm. I find it very easy to lose fat during the summer.
LOL OK ...
so if I eat in a deficit during winter, I won't lose as much fat...??0 -
Obviously what works for one person, might not work for someone else. Not because we're all special snowflakes, but because some of us - admittedly - have more willpower than others and just prefer a certain way of eating.
Personally, I tried the "clean" eating thing. I know, I know, it's such a subjective term. But to me, it was lean meats, veggies, fruits, high fiber, no processed sugars, no soda, no alcohol, no fat, no pasta and by the end of my month-long stint, I was a *kitten* to everyone I came into contact with, and I dove so fast into a chocolate cake it was like Lindsay Lohan inhaling a pile of coke.
For me, it's moderation. And - quite frankly - I couldn't imagine a world where I couldn't have Doritos. Or donuts. Or Toaster Strudel. Or chicken wings and beer while I watch football. But it's balance. For me, it's working in the treats I've always loved in with my goals. If I want wine, I'm going to drink some damn wine. And if one of the vendors at work brings in a box of donuts...well...I might have one. Because #yolodonuts.
I will say, one of my favorite things, is to take food that is high in calories and fat and what some high atop their horses would call "bad food", and try to make it healthy and fit within my macros (I'm one of those IIFYM *kitten*). I find it fun to be creative in the kitchen and thinking about ways I can put spins on the food I love makes it so I rarely run out of ideas of food to make.
I also absolutely go bananas over meal planning. It's my gluten-free-non-GMO-organically-farmed-prayed-over-by-clean-eating-Buddhist-monks-goat-sacrificing jam.
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It depends on what suits you. Overall, eating clean is healthier, more nutritionally balanced. But eating in moderation is more realistic for most people.0
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My diet is mainly made up of what would be classed as 'clean' food I think (although I'm sure some clean eating enthusiast would gleefully correct me on that). But this isn't some deliberate effort to avoid demonised food items, it's just that what I enjoy eating and what helps me hit my macros and fibre targets happens to be that sort of food usually. My target is always to hit macros and a calorie deficit, regardless of what helps me reach that. I fit in plenty of the treat type food as well, because I love chocolate croissants and peanut butter cups.0
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SconnieCat wrote: »I was a *kitten* to everyone I came into contact with, and I dove so fast into a chocolate cake it was like Lindsay Lohan inhaling a pile of coke.
When you read that quote alongside your current profile photo, it's quite something.0 -
Here's a sample of what I'm eating on my cut down to 181:
Staples:
Beef
Chicken
Pork
Turkey
Bacon
Eggs
Greek Yogurt
Pizza
Protein Bars
Milk
Bread
Cheese
Sausage
Potatoes
Vegetables (a variety)
Protein Powder (for shakes, typically if I'm running behind in the morning and don't have time to cook my eggs for breakfast)
Occasional:
Beer
Liqueur
Carrot Cake
Ice Cream
Pasta
Chips & Salsa
Peanut Butter
Popcorn0 -
To be completely honest, I have no idea if I am eating clean or not. I have been doing this 7 months and so far I have eaten the following "dirty" foods over that time....
+One McRib meal with fries
+One mini-blizzard (red velvet)
+About six pieces of chocolate
+Three donuts
+One cup of frozen yogurt
+A couple of brownies
+A couple of cookies
+Probably about a half a bag of potato chips
The rest of the time I eat fish, lots of veggies, and chicken. BUT, this is not that far from how I ate normally before. I just cut way back on booze, cheese, and bread - which I don't consider unhealthy. I have never liked sweets that much.0 -
70 pounds lost with moderation.0
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I definitely eat more "clean" foods now than I did before starting this logging journey. It's all about moderation though, even with the "clean" foods. I do eat some processed things, but definitely make a lot more effort to find and cook nutritionally dense foods now. All I'm doing is getting back to how I ate when I was slender. Moderation moderation moderation
My "sensitivities" to certain ingredients already had me reading food labels even before I got serious about weight loss.0 -
It depends on what suits you. Overall, eating clean is healthier, more nutritionally balanced. But eating in moderation is more realistic for most people.
how would clean eating be healthier if someone ate in moderation but hits their macro/micro/calorie target for the day?
does the fact that one adds in ice cream and some cookies negate the rest of their day, because dirty?0 -
DebHutton55 wrote: »Eat the right carbs, proteins and fats. Watch the quantity. Move! There's the key to healthy living and an outcome in your later years that has you with your memory and the ability to move around with ease. If you are just eating for your weight, wise up. It's taken me most of my life to figure that out.
Someone said, sugar is nothing unless you have a medical condition. So wrong! Read, read, read. What all this stuff is doing to your brain, is more important than what it is doing to your butt.
Of course, eat an occasional bad but if you start eating correctly, you don't have that desire anymore.
Your brain actually functions on glucose.
Or ketones0 -
To be completely honest, I have no idea if I am eating clean or not. I have been doing this 7 months and so far I have eaten the following "dirty" foods over that time....
+One McRib meal with fries
+One mini-blizzard (red velvet)
+About six pieces of chocolate
+Three donuts
+One cup of frozen yogurt
+A couple of brownies
+A couple of cookies
+Probably about a half a bag of potato chips
The rest of the time I eat fish, lots of veggies, and chicken. BUT, this is not that far from how I ate normally before. I just cut way back on booze, cheese, and bread - which I don't consider unhealthy. I have never liked sweets that much.
This is moderation. Which is great and healthy. So, yay!0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »To be completely honest, I have no idea if I am eating clean or not. I have been doing this 7 months and so far I have eaten the following "dirty" foods over that time....
+One McRib meal with fries
+One mini-blizzard (red velvet)
+About six pieces of chocolate
+Three donuts
+One cup of frozen yogurt
+A couple of brownies
+A couple of cookies
+Probably about a half a bag of potato chips
The rest of the time I eat fish, lots of veggies, and chicken. BUT, this is not that far from how I ate normally before. I just cut way back on booze, cheese, and bread - which I don't consider unhealthy. I have never liked sweets that much.
This is moderation. Which is great and healthy. So, yay!
OK, thanks. I really wasn't sure.
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This discussion has been closed.
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