Lift heavy, get strong, rawr! - Total load of crap
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PikaKnight wrote: »
You can't be serious.- Not a lot of people have access to good face-to-face instruction. Lots can't afford it, but also, there's a lack of good instruction at a lot of gyms. So even those who can afford a trainer sometimes come up craps
That's due to a failure in proper research. I live in BFE. Seriously, Thai food and food trucks are the new "hot trends". That came, got hot, and chilled about what, 15 years ago in LA?
I decided I wanted to learn olympic lifting. So instead of going to the Y and asking for a derptrainer, or going to a crossfit place to sign up with an unknown who got his weekend certification last week. I got on teh innerwebbinz did some research, contacted the state president of the coaching system I wanted to find a coach from, and then got a referral based on my specific parameters provided to the person I contacted.
We're talking like, sub 2 hours of research, and three emails to find quality. It's not hard, it just requires a teeny bit of work.
There are far more derptrainers than there are good ones, are you kidding? Further, a lot of non derptrainers might be great at training 20 y/o males with no vulnerabilities, but not have experience with older, sedentary bodies and/or training after rehab.
Still doesn't excuse someone from taking responsibility to learn proper form. You talk about money but there are a bunch of good websites and form videos for FREE that you can view.
You talk about older people and training after rehab like somehow that makes it totally acceptable to just not even try.
There are a ton of people, young and old, that use only free resources available and do just fine. Sarauk2sf is a perfect example of both someone older, used these free resources, and also did so after surviving a double cerebral aneurysm.
Sorry, where are you getting this?? I talked about preparatory training being important, and I think trainers should have knowledge about different populations.
I have a crap-ton of problems with joints and I work out around them. Unfortunately, I only learned how to do that AFTER I got injured. Getting injured is what tipped me off to the fact that I had bad biomechanics and other vulnerabilities. Lots of people are in that situation. That's why I think it's best for everyone to be cautious up front. (I know that's not how people usually work, but it would be ideal.)
I've seen Sarauk2sf's contributions, she's great and offers a lot of sense, but everyone's body is different. Some people only discover they have problems once they get them.0 -
I self taught all my own lifts and haven't ever been evaluated by a trainer. I have however, had collective feedback on certain technical breakdowns of lifts which have helped with moving more weight, more efficiently... but, my form has never sucked so terribly on any lift to the point of injury or impending injury.0
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PikaKnight wrote: »
You can't be serious.- Not a lot of people have access to good face-to-face instruction. Lots can't afford it, but also, there's a lack of good instruction at a lot of gyms. So even those who can afford a trainer sometimes come up craps
That's due to a failure in proper research. I live in BFE. Seriously, Thai food and food trucks are the new "hot trends". That came, got hot, and chilled about what, 15 years ago in LA?
I decided I wanted to learn olympic lifting. So instead of going to the Y and asking for a derptrainer, or going to a crossfit place to sign up with an unknown who got his weekend certification last week. I got on teh innerwebbinz did some research, contacted the state president of the coaching system I wanted to find a coach from, and then got a referral based on my specific parameters provided to the person I contacted.
We're talking like, sub 2 hours of research, and three emails to find quality. It's not hard, it just requires a teeny bit of work.
There are far more derptrainers than there are good ones, are you kidding? Further, a lot of non derptrainers might be great at training 20 y/o males with no vulnerabilities, but not have experience with older, sedentary bodies and/or training after rehab.
Still doesn't excuse someone from taking responsibility to learn proper form. You talk about money but there are a bunch of good websites and form videos for FREE that you can view.
You talk about older people and training after rehab like somehow that makes it totally acceptable to just not even try.
There are a ton of people, young and old, that use only free resources available and do just fine. Sarauk2sf is a perfect example of both someone older, used these free resources, and also did so after surviving a double cerebral aneurysm.
Agree!! I watched a ton of videos on how to do lifts and their forms, over and over until I got it down and ask questions when I couldn't find the answers.
I think people are just making excuses now why they can't do this or that.
I have osteoarthritis in both knees, I still lift heavy, I am just more careful when I do squats, I don't go low on them, nor do I do lunges, advised by my doctor. I have also had rotator cuff surgery and lifting has done wonders for my shoulder.
Oomph. That sucks about your injury but yay for getting better :bigsmile:
To add, aside from free form videos and instructions, there are websites/forums (including here on MFP, especially through the Eat Train Progress group) that you can link/upload form videos and have the more experienced lifters critique them.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »What's s/he not getting? There definitely is research on "prehab" and "preparatory" programs. One I saw recently was about preventing anterior knee pain in military recruits. (This kind of thing is now required because a lot of the recruits lately are apparently overweight.)
here
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224867744_Exercise_training_to_prevent_anterior_knee_pain_in_military_recruits
Absolutely. In school and in working on my PES certification I spent a lot of time studying about preventing non-contact ACL and Ankle injuries and there is a lot of good data out there that supports such exercise. These aren't rehab programs and would fall into a "preparatory" category like he mentioned above. Some folks do need a prep resistance training period before they get into things like certain compound lifts, because they just don't have the proper function to correctly perform certain movements.
That's great! I'm glad to hear this is being disseminated.0 -
AllanMisner wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »
I also think you’re over emphasizing the inherent weaknesses of the untrained. Most will never come close to pushing themselves past the limitations of their connective tissue.
totally disagree with bolded.
Then it is your experience that most newbies over-train?
Injury isn't just due to overtraining. I think a lot of newbies have crappy biomechanics and bad habits and don't even know how to look for that in a mirror. Also, as I mentioned, a lot of them don't have access to good trainers who can help them.
Any given day on MFP, you'll see a bunch of posts about someone's knee or back, and how they can't walk to the bathroom but want to train through it.
I don't think this even has anything to do with people being ignorant or not knowing how their bodies work...this is just people have zero common sense and quite frankly just being stupid...there's a difference between ignorant and stupid...if you're legitimately hurt and want to "push through it"...well, that's just stupid and you really can't fix that.0 -
Serious question here. If it looks like you're doing it right, and it feels like you're doing it right... how will anyone ever know that you're not? i.e. yourself, your trainer, etc. I'm genuinely confused. If you look like you're doing it right, then what exactly is wrong?
In each exercise, there are a set of visual cues that you’re in proper alignment. For example, how the knees track out over the toes in a squat or deadlift and the alignment of the back. An experienced trainer should see some of these and be able to help the trainee diagnose the issue. Is it a mobility or a muscle imbalance.
Even lifters that have great form will often lose some form as they get fatigued. A good trainer will catch it and remind the trainee. You can lose some form and not suffer any damage. But it is always safer to lift using good form. If you notice any joint discomfort after lifting (not muscle soreness, but actual joint pain), you probably had some form issues.
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »What's s/he not getting? There definitely is research on "prehab" and "preparatory" programs. One I saw recently was about preventing anterior knee pain in military recruits. (This kind of thing is now required because a lot of the recruits lately are apparently overweight.)
here
http://www.researchgate.net/publication/224867744_Exercise_training_to_prevent_anterior_knee_pain_in_military_recruits
Absolutely. In school and in working on my PES certification I spent a lot of time studying about preventing non-contact ACL and Ankle injuries and there is a lot of good data out there that supports such exercise. These aren't rehab programs and would fall into a "preparatory" category like he mentioned above. Some folks do need a prep resistance training period before they get into things like certain compound lifts, because they just don't have the proper function to correctly perform certain movements.
That's great! I'm glad to hear this is being disseminated.
At nauseum... In all seriousness it is really important to discuss. Non-contact ACL injuries are serious, as somebody that undergoes ACL reconstruction has a 20% chance of re-injuring the same ACL. With that being said, it's obvious that trying to prevent them from happening in the first place is incredibly important. Additionally, once somebody experiences one it's even more important. That's why I get irritated when people are like, "aw just squat and deadlift" and it's not necessarily an appropriate starting point for everybody. For many, yes but not all. Often, some unilateral work and Core work is needed first.0 -
You can't be serious.- Not a lot of people have access to good face-to-face instruction. Lots can't afford it, but also, there's a lack of good instruction at a lot of gyms. So even those who can afford a trainer sometimes come up craps
That's due to a failure in proper research. I live in BFE. Seriously, Thai food and food trucks are the new "hot trends". That came, got hot, and chilled about what, 15 years ago in LA?
I decided I wanted to learn olympic lifting. So instead of going to the Y and asking for a derptrainer, or going to a crossfit place to sign up with an unknown who got his weekend certification last week. I got on teh innerwebbinz did some research, contacted the state president of the coaching system I wanted to find a coach from, and then got a referral based on my specific parameters provided to the person I contacted.
We're talking like, sub 2 hours of research, and three emails to find quality. It's not hard, it just requires a teeny bit of work.
There are far more derptrainers than there are good ones, are you kidding? Further, a lot of non derptrainers might be great at training 20 y/o males with no vulnerabilities, but not have experience with older, sedentary bodies and/or training after rehab.
that's why you research.
I have two inflamed knees, and some soft tissue injuries, yet. Amazingly, I was able to find someone qualified via this little thing called google, and a seldom known term, "investigation".
Training is something that very much adheres to, what you get out is equal to what you put in. That includes your research in finding the right trainer.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I self taught all my own lifts and haven't ever been evaluated by a trainer. I have however, had collective feedback on certain technical breakdowns of lifts which have helped with moving more weight, more efficiently... but, my form has never sucked so terribly on any lift to the point of injury or impending injury.
There's a theme I seem to be getting from your comment...
tomatoey should really pay attention.
That theme?
Research.0 -
Yeah, that's people just being dumb as doorknobs.cwolfman13 wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »AllanMisner wrote: »
I also think you’re over emphasizing the inherent weaknesses of the untrained. Most will never come close to pushing themselves past the limitations of their connective tissue.
totally disagree with bolded.
Then it is your experience that most newbies over-train?
Injury isn't just due to overtraining. I think a lot of newbies have crappy biomechanics and bad habits and don't even know how to look for that in a mirror. Also, as I mentioned, a lot of them don't have access to good trainers who can help them.
Any given day on MFP, you'll see a bunch of posts about someone's knee or back, and how they can't walk to the bathroom but want to train through it.
I don't think this even has anything to do with people being ignorant or not knowing how their bodies work...this is just people have zero common sense and quite frankly just being stupid...there's a difference between ignorant and stupid...if you're legitimately hurt and want to "push through it"...well, that's just stupid and you really can't fix that.
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The only thing I'm getting from the OP is that it sounds like you need to sit on your *kitten* and never exercise because you don't have the conditioning to do exercise that will make you able to exercise.
Amiright?0 -
Being in favour of applying established evidence and best practice on a wide scale isn't lacking "personal responsibility". Jesus.0 -
The average person doesn't have the background or time to wade through the mountain of crap on the internet about fitness. Also, many lack the training experience to understand the feedback their bodies are giving them. "Is this normal pain?" "Is this DOMS?" "Is this the beginning of a stress fracture?"
People with athletic backgrounds, who've been coached, know better how to tell the difference.0 -
You can't be serious.- Not a lot of people have access to good face-to-face instruction. Lots can't afford it, but also, there's a lack of good instruction at a lot of gyms. So even those who can afford a trainer sometimes come up craps
That's due to a failure in proper research. I live in BFE. Seriously, Thai food and food trucks are the new "hot trends". That came, got hot, and chilled about what, 15 years ago in LA?
I decided I wanted to learn olympic lifting. So instead of going to the Y and asking for a derptrainer, or going to a crossfit place to sign up with an unknown who got his weekend certification last week. I got on teh innerwebbinz did some research, contacted the state president of the coaching system I wanted to find a coach from, and then got a referral based on my specific parameters provided to the person I contacted.
We're talking like, sub 2 hours of research, and three emails to find quality. It's not hard, it just requires a teeny bit of work.
There are far more derptrainers than there are good ones, are you kidding? Further, a lot of non derptrainers might be great at training 20 y/o males with no vulnerabilities, but not have experience with older, sedentary bodies and/or training after rehab.
that's why you research.
I have two inflamed knees, and some soft tissue injuries, yet. Amazingly, I was able to find someone qualified via this little thing called google, and a seldom known term, "investigation".
Training is something that very much adheres to, what you get out is equal to what you put in. That includes your research in finding the right trainer.
You also, it seems, can afford this trainer you found after your research. Not everyone could.0 -
The average person doesn't have the background or time to wade through the mountain of crap on the internet about fitness. Also, many lack the training experience to understand the feedback their bodies are giving them. "Is this normal pain?" "Is this DOMS?" "Is this the beginning of a stress fracture?"
People with athletic backgrounds, who've been coached, know better how to tell the difference.
Athletic background or not... if you can't tell the difference between soreness and acute pain...
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The average person doesn't have the background or time to wade through the mountain of crap on the internet about fitness. Also, many lack the training experience to understand the feedback their bodies are giving them. "Is this normal pain?" "Is this DOMS?" "Is this the beginning of a stress fracture?"
People with athletic backgrounds, who've been coached, know better how to tell the difference.
No, people with working brains who understand the concepts of analysis, observation, and experimentation will be more than equipped to perform the fairly simple and basic research needed to find a decent trainer. Hell, even to find an expert trainer.
the rest? Comes from experience, observation, analysis, and assessment. Something we all do on the daily, even the most cognitively impaired in our society.
PS - don't touch fire, it's hot.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »The average person doesn't have the background or time to wade through the mountain of crap on the internet about fitness. Also, many lack the training experience to understand the feedback their bodies are giving them. "Is this normal pain?" "Is this DOMS?" "Is this the beginning of a stress fracture?"
People with athletic backgrounds, who've been coached, know better how to tell the difference.
Athletic background or not... if you can't tell the difference between soreness and acute pain...
It's a fine line, sometimes. A teensy little twinge while running can be a warning sign of plantar fasciitis showing up in a month. Or, it could be that your shoes are too tight.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »The average person doesn't have the background or time to wade through the mountain of crap on the internet about fitness. Also, many lack the training experience to understand the feedback their bodies are giving them. "Is this normal pain?" "Is this DOMS?" "Is this the beginning of a stress fracture?"
People with athletic backgrounds, who've been coached, know better how to tell the difference.
Athletic background or not... if you can't tell the difference between soreness and acute pain...
You mean, I shouldn't eat broken glass?0 -
Oh, whatever. Talk to me when your knees don't hurt through your squats.0
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