Can you really eat a burger?
Replies
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maillemaker wrote: »it all comes down to CICO my friend...
consume less than you are burning and you will lose weight.
Yes! Absolutely!Unless of course your claim is that being obese puts you outside of the realm of math and physics that apply to all of this?
Gah! No! Please, please when you have an hour, watch the video. It's pretty easy to follow in spite of the medical and genetic lingo.
All this this is saying is that when you have been obese for some period of time (and they are not clear on exactly how much time is required) if you lose body fat it triggers a loss of Leptin (among other unknown-at-this-time effects) that trigger defensive mechanisms to try and restore fat levels to their previous high levels. It does this by reducing metabolism (primarily by making skeletal muscle about 20% more efficient), increasing hunger, and increasing preoccupation with food. And so far as scientists can tell at this point, this effect may be permanent. They can't tell that everyone is effected this way, but so far, everyone they have studied has been effected this way.
The upshot of this is that when a formerly obese person loses weight, they end up with a metabolism that is 10-15% less than someone of the same weight who was never obese.
So not only do you have to learn to make due with eating maintenance for the new weight, you have to learn to make due with eating 10-15% less than that. Most people can't tolerate this which is probably why most people end up failing wait loss long-term.
The only known mechanism at this time that permanently stops this mechanism is bariatric surgery. Leptin replacement therapy seems to also quiet the defense mechanism but obviously is not permanent.
Another option is appetite suppressants, which is the route I'm currently going. Like Leptin replacement therapy, it's not permanent, either, but my hope is I can use it to get to maintenance and then ride it on and off on maintenance until a better solution to the problem comes along.
Instead of watching another 1 hour video why don't you go for a jog?
You'd get sweaty. Far more sweaty than wearing chainmail to a renaissance festival on a hot day...
Ba ha ha!
Do they have burgers at RenFest? I just remember giant turkey legs...
It's been too long since I've been to one, so I was inspired to look up the menu (this is for the Bristol Faire), and so far as I can tell no actual burgers, but many other options, some possibly related. Some selected items (all the notes are from the menu):
Portabella sandwich
Fresh cut curly fries (vegan) can also add cheese or chili
French doughnuts (beignets)
Ice cold chai latte
Pizza pyes (veg)
Turkey drumsticks with and without BBQ sauce (ONLY gluten free without BBQ sauce)
Giant beef ribs
"Children's" chicken basket (breaded chicken shaped like sea creatures)
Shepherd's Pye
Calzones
Gelato
Onion Stryngs
Monkey tails (chocolate covered banana on a stick)
Nuts (vegan)
Steak on a stake
Cornish pasties
Cornish dogs
Pretzel dogs
Bacon cheeseburger nachos
Bacon cheeseburger potato
Dragon tails (veg) (fried mac and cheese bites)
Tasty kabobwich
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So what we know so far is:
You've lost like 16 lbs in over 2 years while weighing at least 350 lbs.
You eat less than many of the women in this forum
You don't exercise because you don't like sweat or exertion
You are destined to fail because science told you that you are
I think I got it all
In the past 2 years I've lost like 50 pounds, regaining 30 of it.
I have never weighted more than 290.
I don't like to exercise.
Most people will fail to keep weight off long term.
Congrats, you got 50% right.Instead of watching another 1 hour video why don't you go for a jog?
I tried once. I am unable to jog 1/8th of a mile. Why don't you try watching the video?You'd get sweaty. Far more sweaty than wearing chainmail to a renaissance festival on a hot day
Heh, the photo is not from a renaissance festival. It's from an SCA event. I used to do armoured combat. However I was never really good at it and didn't have the physical stamina to get good at it.I have been reading alot of your posts lately and it almost seems like instead of listening to the people on this site that have been in your shoes and lost tons of weight you rather try to find any excuse to hinder your own progress. Do you want to tlose weight or not?
Once again, I am not finding excuses, I am presenting facts as to what causes problems with weight loss for most people, myself included. Yes, I want to lose weight, which is why I am taking weight loss drugs to mitigate the hunger problems associated with fat loss.
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mraudit2000 wrote: »14 pages? I just asked if a cheeseburger is allowed. By the way, it was awesome!!!
Thank heavens you didn't ask if you could also put added sugar in it0 -
Heck yeah. If you start early enough in the day and eat enough vegetables you can even work in a large vanilla milkshake once in while. Like I just did.0
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ceoverturf wrote: »mraudit2000 wrote: »14 pages? I just asked if a cheeseburger is allowed. By the way, it was awesome!!!
Thank heavens you didn't ask if you could also put added sugar in it
Or how to make his burger "clean."0 -
maillemaker wrote: »
I tried once. I am unable to jog 1/8th of a mile.
The first time I rode my new bicycle, I was unable to make it up any hill - even a small knoll - without stopping multiple times - ridiculous multiple times.
The 2nd time I rode my new bicycle, I was unable to make it up those same hills, but I made myself go just a smidge further than the last time (I used landmarks like certain rocks, utility poles, driveways, mailboxes).
I did this each and every time. Last summer I rode my bike in Smoky Mountain National Park - Cades Cove Loop. I forget how many miles it was, but darnit, I did it. I also rode my bike around a local lake - 6 miles - a couple times. Rode 19 miles along the river. Being tenacious pays off.
When I walked my dog there was no way I could run even a smidge. But I chose a landmark, and tried to run to it. I failed. But the next time, I tried again, and I got further.
Using this method, I finally managed to run 1/4 mile. I posted it here as a NSV:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1389196/nsv-i-jogged-25-mile-without-stopping-yes-a-big-deal#latest
Now, of course - I for whatever reason - gave up at some point, ended up gaining weight back - but I am now almost back to that 226 weight I was when I posted that. I have since been going to the gym - using the elliptical "just a few seconds longer" or "a little faster pace" than the last time. Using the weights. I joined a spin class. Thought I was going to die the first class - I looked at the clock thinking 10 or 15 minutes had passed and it was only 5 minutes. I stopped multiple times during the class. I was too proud to leave the class though I wanted to.
The next class - when I looked at the clock the first time, it was 15 minutes before I looked at the clock, and I said "Heck yes, I'm going to finish this class." I didn't stop once. I may not have done all the "moves" but I never stopped pedaling.
Stop giving in. Push yourself just a little. So you can't go 1/8 of a mile. Go as far as you can, then the next time, tell yourself to go "just a little" bit further. Just a little. And each time, do it.
It's amazing how powerful you feel, instead of defeated.0 -
mraudit2000 wrote: »14 pages? I just asked if a cheeseburger is allowed. By the way, it was awesome!!!
Some of us are very passionate about our consumption of cow.
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maillemaker wrote: »
I tried once. I am unable to jog 1/8th of a mile.
The first time I rode my new bicycle, I was unable to make it up any hill - even a small knoll - without stopping multiple times - ridiculous multiple times.
The 2nd time I rode my new bicycle, I was unable to make it up those same hills, but I made myself go just a smidge further than the last time (I used landmarks like certain rocks, utility poles, driveways, mailboxes).
I did this each and every time. Last summer I rode my bike in Smoky Mountain National Park - Cades Cove Loop. I forget how many miles it was, but darnit, I did it. I also rode my bike around a local lake - 6 miles - a couple times. Rode 19 miles along the river. Being tenacious pays off.
When I walked my dog there was no way I could run even a smidge. But I chose a landmark, and tried to run to it. I failed. But the next time, I tried again, and I got further.
Using this method, I finally managed to run 1/4 mile. I posted it here as a NSV:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1389196/nsv-i-jogged-25-mile-without-stopping-yes-a-big-deal#latest
Now, of course - I for whatever reason - gave up at some point, ended up gaining weight back - but I am now almost back to that 226 weight I was when I posted that. I have since been going to the gym - using the elliptical "just a few seconds longer" or "a little faster pace" than the last time. Using the weights. I joined a spin class. Thought I was going to die the first class - I looked at the clock thinking 10 or 15 minutes had passed and it was only 5 minutes. I stopped multiple times during the class. I was too proud to leave the class though I wanted to.
The next class - when I looked at the clock the first time, it was 15 minutes before I looked at the clock, and I said "Heck yes, I'm going to finish this class." I didn't stop once. I may not have done all the "moves" but I never stopped pedaling.
Stop giving in. Push yourself just a little. So you can't go 1/8 of a mile. Go as far as you can, then the next time, tell yourself to go "just a little" bit further. Just a little. And each time, do it.
It's amazing how powerful you feel, instead of defeated.
Yep. Your body has to adjust to exercise when it's not used to getting any. The point is to stop making excuses like "I can't," or "I get out of breath," or "It hurts." Before calling the waaambulance, maybe just try. Do what you can, and do a little more each time. Our bodies are made to move - you'd be surprised at what you're capable of.
I thought I was going to die when I first started my circuit training routine - I sweated and I wheezed, my belly jiggled. But I did it. I took a few breaks in there, but I did it. Now I do it without any breaks, and I feel amazing after a workout.
You'll get there, you just have to stop telling yourself that you can't do it - because that's a lie. You owe it to yourself to be honest.0 -
It has been entertaining.
I do theme weeks at my house sometimes and was thinking of doing a burger theme. Some great ideas here.0 -
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maillemaker wrote: »[ . . . snip . . .]
Once again, I am not finding excuses, I am presenting facts as to what causes problems with weight loss for most people, myself included. Yes, I want to lose weight, which is why I am taking weight loss drugs to mitigate the hunger problems associated with fat loss.
Knowledge is great, but knowing how to use it is critical. Even if it's true that formerly long-term obese will effectively have a lower NEAT / TDEE at the same weight than another person at that weight who has not been long-term obese, it is irrelevant to you unless and until you reach that point. Your NEAT / TDEE will be what it will be when you're at any given weight.
Only chiming in to say that if willpower over hunger is an issue for you, as it seems to be with your move to appetite suppressants, etc., then setting calorie goals based on a goal weight maintenance level, which is further reduced by your anticipated 15%-20% reduction due to long-term obesity, is one of the most self-defeating approaches I can imagine to getting down to a goal weight where you'll actually get to see what your maintenance calories are in reality.
Figure out your TDEE or NEAT, set a reasonable deficit that balances progress in weight loss (this doesn't mean you have to be dropping pounds and pounds each week) with your capability to manage that deficit, and go from there. Setting a calorie goal so low as to make adherence impossible or nearly so is basically guaranteeing failure -- you'll never get to the point of seeing what your actual NEAT / TDEE is at maintenance weight and whether or not long-term obesity has affected it in the way you suspect it will.
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Sure you can have it. But, I find that the burgers at most chain restaurants (Applebees, Ruby Tuesday, Five Guys, etc) have more calories than I am allotted for the day. They have lower cal ones at fast food restaurants like McDonald's, depending on which one you get.0
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You want me to watch the video so I can understand how people have their predetermined notion ed that they will fail validated?
I want you to watch the video to have an understanding of the how weight loss works in obese people. Why are you so resistant to learning what a scientist has to say about the subject? I suspect you will agree with much that is in the video. For example, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Diet composition has virtually no impact on body fat mass.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »[ . . . snip . . .]
Once again, I am not finding excuses, I am presenting facts as to what causes problems with weight loss for most people, myself included. Yes, I want to lose weight, which is why I am taking weight loss drugs to mitigate the hunger problems associated with fat loss.
Knowledge is great, but knowing how to use it is critical. Even if it's true that formerly long-term obese will effectively have a lower NEAT / TDEE at the same weight than another person at that weight who has not been long-term obese, it is irrelevant to you unless and until you reach that point. Your NEAT / TDEE will be what it will be when you're at any given weight.
Only chiming in to say that if willpower over hunger is an issue for you, as it seems to be with your move to appetite suppressants, etc., then setting calorie goals based on a goal weight maintenance level, which is further reduced by your anticipated 15%-20% reduction due to long-term obesity, is one of the most self-defeating approaches I can imagine to getting down to a goal weight where you'll actually get to see what your maintenance calories are in reality.
Figure out your TDEE or NEAT, set a reasonable deficit that balances progress in weight loss (this doesn't mean you have to be dropping pounds and pounds each week) with your capability to manage that deficit, and go from there. Setting a calorie goal so low as to make adherence impossible or nearly so is basically guaranteeing failure -- you'll never get to the point of seeing what your actual NEAT / TDEE is at maintenance weight and whether or not long-term obesity has affected it in the way you suspect it will.
Well put my friend.
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maillemaker wrote: »
I tried once. I am unable to jog 1/8th of a mile.
The first time I rode my new bicycle, I was unable to make it up any hill - even a small knoll - without stopping multiple times - ridiculous multiple times.
The 2nd time I rode my new bicycle, I was unable to make it up those same hills, but I made myself go just a smidge further than the last time (I used landmarks like certain rocks, utility poles, driveways, mailboxes).
I did this each and every time. Last summer I rode my bike in Smoky Mountain National Park - Cades Cove Loop. I forget how many miles it was, but darnit, I did it. I also rode my bike around a local lake - 6 miles - a couple times. Rode 19 miles along the river. Being tenacious pays off.
When I walked my dog there was no way I could run even a smidge. But I chose a landmark, and tried to run to it. I failed. But the next time, I tried again, and I got further.
Using this method, I finally managed to run 1/4 mile. I posted it here as a NSV:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1389196/nsv-i-jogged-25-mile-without-stopping-yes-a-big-deal#latest
Now, of course - I for whatever reason - gave up at some point, ended up gaining weight back - but I am now almost back to that 226 weight I was when I posted that. I have since been going to the gym - using the elliptical "just a few seconds longer" or "a little faster pace" than the last time. Using the weights. I joined a spin class. Thought I was going to die the first class - I looked at the clock thinking 10 or 15 minutes had passed and it was only 5 minutes. I stopped multiple times during the class. I was too proud to leave the class though I wanted to.
The next class - when I looked at the clock the first time, it was 15 minutes before I looked at the clock, and I said "Heck yes, I'm going to finish this class." I didn't stop once. I may not have done all the "moves" but I never stopped pedaling.
Stop giving in. Push yourself just a little. So you can't go 1/8 of a mile. Go as far as you can, then the next time, tell yourself to go "just a little" bit further. Just a little. And each time, do it.
It's amazing how powerful you feel, instead of defeated.
You're doing it wrong. Progressive improvement is just silly and only happens in movie montages. Regardless of your endeavor, you're supposed to attempt to beat the current world record on your first attempt and then when you can't, that's proof that you're just not meant for that activity, because people who are good at anything were all lucky to be born with all their skills and abilities.0 -
I hate evangelical videos, even if the presenter is wearing a lab coat. I'm essentially a captive audience until the end, waiting for the punch line. Give me something to read and I can zip through it in no time, at my own pace. Any woo "science" however and I am out of there.
@maillemaker , you would honor me by reading a blog by a premier obesity expert here in Canada. I'd be interested in your opinion.
http://www.drsharma.ca/running-down-the-up-escalator.html0 -
maillemaker wrote: »So what we know so far is:
You've lost like 16 lbs in over 2 years while weighing at least 350 lbs.
You eat less than many of the women in this forum
You don't exercise because you don't like sweat or exertion
You are destined to fail because science told you that you are
I think I got it all
In the past 2 years I've lost like 50 pounds, regaining 30 of it.
I have never weighted more than 290.
I don't like to exercise.
Most people will fail to keep weight off long term.
Congrats, you got 50% right.Instead of watching another 1 hour video why don't you go for a jog?
I tried once. I am unable to jog 1/8th of a mile. Why don't you try watching the video?You'd get sweaty. Far more sweaty than wearing chainmail to a renaissance festival on a hot day
Heh, the photo is not from a renaissance festival. It's from an SCA event. I used to do armoured combat. However I was never really good at it and didn't have the physical stamina to get good at it.I have been reading alot of your posts lately and it almost seems like instead of listening to the people on this site that have been in your shoes and lost tons of weight you rather try to find any excuse to hinder your own progress. Do you want to tlose weight or not?
Once again, I am not finding excuses, I am presenting facts as to what causes problems with weight loss for most people, myself included. Yes, I want to lose weight, which is why I am taking weight loss drugs to mitigate the hunger problems associated with fat loss.
You are finding excuses. I am a 52 year old woman with chronic medical conditions, including debilitating autoimmune arthritis
I started walking with a cane and hobbled 1/4 mile my first day. I can walk quite comfortably now on an inclined treadmill at 3.2 miles an hour. Still nothing major, but for where I started? It's something.
You don't need to run, you can walk. Cardio suppresses appetite, btw.
And have you even listened to the people who have lost and who are maintaining without this 10-15% reduction in calories you keep banging on about?
You're not being a REALIST, you're setting yourself up to fail.
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The question is can you really not eat a burger? Burgers are delicious and I'm not giving them up!0
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I LOVE Burgers... BUT I will only eat them at home now...or at least until i can get a whole wheat bun...0
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maillemaker wrote: »[ . . . snip . . .]
Once again, I am not finding excuses, I am presenting facts as to what causes problems with weight loss for most people, myself included. Yes, I want to lose weight, which is why I am taking weight loss drugs to mitigate the hunger problems associated with fat loss.
Knowledge is great, but knowing how to use it is critical. Even if it's true that formerly long-term obese will effectively have a lower NEAT / TDEE at the same weight than another person at that weight who has not been long-term obese, it is irrelevant to you unless and until you reach that point. Your NEAT / TDEE will be what it will be when you're at any given weight.
Only chiming in to say that if willpower over hunger is an issue for you, as it seems to be with your move to appetite suppressants, etc., then setting calorie goals based on a goal weight maintenance level, which is further reduced by your anticipated 15%-20% reduction due to long-term obesity, is one of the most self-defeating approaches I can imagine to getting down to a goal weight where you'll actually get to see what your maintenance calories are in reality.
Figure out your TDEE or NEAT, set a reasonable deficit that balances progress in weight loss (this doesn't mean you have to be dropping pounds and pounds each week) with your capability to manage that deficit, and go from there. Setting a calorie goal so low as to make adherence impossible or nearly so is basically guaranteeing failure -- you'll never get to the point of seeing what your actual NEAT / TDEE is at maintenance weight and whether or not long-term obesity has affected it in the way you suspect it will.
You, sir, are a better man than I. I was thinking this same basic thing, but you put it much nicer than I would have.0 -
I hate evangelical videos, even if the presenter is wearing a lab coat. I'm essentially a captive audience until the end, waiting for the punch line. Give me something to read and I can zip through it in no time, at my own pace. Any woo "science" however and I am out of there.
@maillemaker , you would honor me by reading a blog by a premier obesity expert here in Canada. I'd be interested in your opinion.
http://www.drsharma.ca/running-down-the-up-escalator.html
I don't like that article. Mostly because it kinda reads like a "it's not your fault, there's nothing you can do about it, here's a surgery to make it easier for you.". When you could "slow down the escalator" (burn more calories) yourself by exercising. It also doesn't talk about how, as the escalator gets faster (you lose weight and your TDEE slowly drops accordingly), you too should get more comfortable running at a steady pace (eating at a certain amount of calories).0 -
I hate evangelical videos, even if the presenter is wearing a lab coat. I'm essentially a captive audience until the end, waiting for the punch line. Give me something to read and I can zip through it in no time, at my own pace. Any woo "science" however and I am out of there.
@maillemaker , you would honor me by reading a blog by a premier obesity expert here in Canada. I'd be interested in your opinion.
http://www.drsharma.ca/running-down-the-up-escalator.html
It just says, "it's too hard, life is unfair to you, you need the surgery that I'm selling."0 -
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Of course you can, if within calorie and macro goals.
I ate a 1900 cal burger for lunch last week. That's just under my daily goal, so...ate 400 cal less the day before and worked out a little extra, so I could have a small breakfast and dinner in case I got hungry. Still within my goal for the week.
Would not do that all the time!
The biggest advantage of cal counting is flexibility. Cals in vs cals out works. So long as you plan for it, why not eat what you want?0 -
stevencloser wrote: »I don't like that article. Mostly because it kinda reads like a "it's not your fault, there's nothing you can do about it, here's a surgery to make it easier for you.". When you could "slow down the escalator" (burn more calories) yourself by exercising. It also doesn't talk about how, as the escalator gets faster (you lose weight and your TDEE slowly drops accordingly), you too should get more comfortable running at a steady pace (eating at a certain amount of calories).
Dr. Sharma works in the public health care system like all Canadian doctors. His reasoning and the studies he cites are of the highest quality. He came and visited a group of us in a nutrition class when he first started here in Alberta and he spent the whole time listening to us and asking questions. He struck me as a most compassionate and understanding man. Here's someone who would not accuse me of being "lazy".
I have no illusions that to maintain my loss it will take constant vigilance.0 -
njitaliana wrote: »Sure you can have it. But, I find that the burgers at most chain restaurants (Applebees, Ruby Tuesday, Five Guys, etc) have more calories than I am allotted for the day. They have lower cal ones at fast food restaurants like McDonald's, depending on which one you get.
Plus they cost $10 a burger. For less than $10 I made 6 delicious burgers at home last night that would rival any restaurant burger. And mine (1/4 lb) was only 379 calories WITH 2 slices of bacon and almost an ounce of cheddar cheese.
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Eat a cheeseburger. Look up nutritional facts beforehand and see how you will need to adjust your other calories.
And for the other conversation happening, excuses are excuses are excuses. It takes a LOT of effort to make a habit of moving more. I started out at 262lbs, severely lacking in exercises and stuffing my face with vending machine food. This was about 7months ago. I have ALWAYS been overweight. I started walking, I had a good motivator to help me get outside and walk. I started using smaller plates, measuring in cups and tablespoons to get a general idea of how much I should be eating.
I have been losing an average of 8-10lbs a month since August. ALWAYS HAVING BEEN MORBIDLY OBESE. I do intermittant jogging now, I do intermittant stair sprinting.
A lifestyle change TAKES TIME. Gradual increase in ability only happens when you KEEP AT IT. I have my slip ups, everyone does. But I learned that that isn't a reason to say "f*** it, let's have 10 beers and an entire pile of Super Nachos" and ruin my whole week. Sometimes I lose half a pound, sometimes I lose 3lbs. I am still heavy enough where this is not unhealthy weightloss.
And for me, my bad habits are stuck with me FOR LIFE. This will be a battle even when I am at maintence weight. Because I'm addicted to stuffing myself to the brim and emotional overeating. I had an Oreo shake from Jack in the Box yesterday because I was upset that my iron was low and I couldn't donate plasma.
The battle to control my bad habits will NOT prevent me from getting down to a healthy weight. I don't care if I have to log my food for the rest of my life, I'm not staying a giant beach ball the rest of my life.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »You want me to watch the video so I can understand how people have their predetermined notion ed that they will fail validated?
I want you to watch the video to have an understanding of the how weight loss works in obese people. Why are you so resistant to learning what a scientist has to say about the subject? I suspect you will agree with much that is in the video. For example, a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. Diet composition has virtually no impact on body fat mass.
I am obese. When I started in January 25 of this year, I was 104 lbs over my goal weight of 140. Medically, at that point, I could be called "morbidly obese" because I was 100 lbs or more overweight.
But I may quit at 155, if I want to. Even with a goal of 155, I was, and am still obese.
And I just got back from a 2 mile walk/run with the dog - we did it in about 44 minutes, and I did several bursts of jogging along the way.
Dude, you can do it, you just start out small. When I first started walking the dog, I barely went 1 mile. Before spring, we'll probably be doing 2.5 miles a day several days a week. My end goal is to do 3 or 4 miles with her every day along with riding my bike.
Oh wait, I forgot I am obese, I can't do these things!
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This discussion has been closed.
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