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Sugar as evil

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  • This content has been removed.
  • Posts: 1,297 Member
    Mr_Knight wrote: »

    And honey. Don't forget honey, which has more fructose than many HFCS formulations.

    Oh well, yes, honey, frankly I have no idea of what Lustig thinks about it.
    But please compare the nutrition facts of honey and HFCS:
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5568/2
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5600/2
    Honey is a whole food that comes with minerals and vitamins, doesn't give just "empty calories", so I go for it.
  • Posts: 28,072 Member
    edited March 2015

    Oh well, yes, honey, frankly I have no idea of what Lustig thinks about it.
    But please compare the nutrition facts of honey and HFCS:
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5568/2
    http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5600/2
    Honey is a whole food that comes with minerals and vitamins, doesn't give just "empty calories", so I go for it.

    Honey really does not have much in the way of minerals and vitamins at all and HFCS has trace amounts of a few.

    The benefit of one food having more nutrients than another assumes that you have not already met your micronutrient goals in any event.
  • Posts: 17,857 Member
    cwolfman13 wrote: »

    My ticker says different too...40 Lbs down and I don't worry about fructose at all....and I just generally kick *kitten* in the fitness department to boot....
    How does this post register as "abuse" to anyone?
  • Posts: 1,663 Member
    Kind of amazing to leave a thread and see 35 replies. Well, today I went over on sugar, even before I had the small mint chocolate frosted brownie for St. Pat's day at church coffee hours. Breakfast was non fat yogurt, strawberries, blueberries, and tinned mandarin oranges. Let's see if I'm in a diabetic coma by the end of the day.
  • Posts: 17,857 Member
    I know what you meant, but it made me laugh. Bambi's mom makes poison? Is Thumper running a meth lab?
    THIS is abuse? REALLY? What moron is flagging these posts?
  • This content has been removed.
  • Posts: 3,171 Member
    edited March 2015
    Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.

    Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:

    Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
    Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396
  • Posts: 28,072 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »

    I'm not sure what's going on either. Someone decided to flag the post below as well. I don't understand how rules are being enforced. I thought MFP was cracking down on those things.



    I think 'random flagging' should be added to the bingo card.
  • Posts: 1,938 Member
    THIS is abuse? REALLY? What moron is flagging these posts?

    Apparently, caring about grammar is a warnable offense. I won't tell you how I know.
  • Posts: 1,297 Member
    EWJLang wrote: »
    Apparently, caring about grammar is a warnable offense.

    Selfishly, I think it is a reasonable rule. Otherwise, considering my poor English, I wouldn't dare to post anything :smile:

  • Posts: 1,938 Member
    I tend to be more lenient when I can tell it's someone with legit questions and a language barrier. Am admittedly more arbitrary in my rage when it's just someone spouting nonsense.
  • Posts: 1,025 Member
    Don't look at me. I don't use the flagging system because it's pretty lame and ambiguous.

    Speaking of, we should get a petition going for this possible flagging upgrade:

    Honest Flagging System
  • Posts: 391 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »

    I'm not sure what's going on either. Someone decided to flag the post below as well. I don't understand how rules are being enforced. I thought MFP was cracking down on those things.



    Yeah, it was flagged so quick, my initial thought was WTF? But I saw I had a swear word in there and went back and edited it, that's probably what it was.
  • Posts: 17,857 Member
    EWJLang wrote: »

    Apparently, caring about grammar is a warnable offense. I won't tell you how I know.
    Nah, caring isn't the offense. (If it were I'd be gone long ago.) Expressing it is. It's more like don't ask don't tell.
  • Posts: 1,938 Member
    Nah, caring isn't the offense. (If it were I'd be gone long ago.) Expressing it is. It's more like don't ask don't tell.

    Ah, so yet another case of "me and my big mouth?"

    I'm 45. I should know better by now.
  • Posts: 4,301 Member
    Sarauk2sf wrote: »

    I think 'random flagging' should be added to the bingo card.

    And this was flagged?!? Is Lustig's publisher a Moofper(MPFER)
  • Posts: 17,857 Member
    Sarauk2sf wrote: »

    I think 'random flagging' should be added to the bingo card.

    Not gonna lie, I laughed HARD when I saw this post was flagged.
  • Posts: 28,072 Member

    Not gonna lie, I laughed HARD when I saw this post was flagged.

    I have a sneaking suspicion (which could be because the 'culprit' just told me) that they flagged it as a joke. :smile:

  • Posts: 391 Member
    Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.

    Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:

    Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
    Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396

    Interesting thanks

  • Posts: 8,911 Member
    Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.

    Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:

    Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
    Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396

    So, more bread, less fruit? There's some paleo people who are gathering their sharp sticks somewhere.
  • Posts: 391 Member

    So, more bread, less fruit? There's some paleo people who are gathering their sharp sticks somewhere.

    Lol. Or more bread less coke and juice. I didn't catch how much they were drinking to begin with, I imagine it was a lot.

  • Posts: 3,171 Member

    So, more bread, less fruit? There's some paleo people who are gathering their sharp sticks somewhere.

    Well, I'd opt for the less sugar, more vegetables option since that confirms what I already believe to be healthful. But the really interesting part, for me, was that the sugar-is-a-carb-track-carbs-not-sugar advice that's commonly given on the forums might be a little too simplistic? Especially for the morbidly obese.

    Either or, I appreciate the studies being done right now in this area by people with no conflicts of interest to declare -- hopefully they're rigorous.
  • Posts: 28,072 Member
    Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.

    Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:

    Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
    Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.

    http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396

    Conversely, the alarmism and cherry picking done by Lustig can also ruin credibility and distract from what is a real issue.

    The study is interesting - hopefully they will get more funding to extend it - it was done on very obese kids (not sure what their activity levels were like) and for a short time so it would be good to see a broader population/time scale. To be clear, I am not implying that large doses of fructose for morbidly obese people (kids or adults) is not a bad thing or questioning the study and its application to it's underlying population.
  • Posts: 97 Member
    On most days my sugar intake is pretty low, but that is because the foods that I pick tend to be low in sugar. I do feel better when I don't have a lot of sugar in my diet. I don't think sugar itself is evil.
  • Posts: 1,663 Member
    edited March 2015
    One of the issues with fructose consumption in children is that children are given a lot of juice or juice products with lots of sugar. Parents think they're doing the right thing by giving these children these drinks, but then the children are also eating their regular diet on top of it. Substituting actual food for those juice calories could make a huge difference (an apple is more filling that a bottle of apple juice). When I was growing up, we had orange juice for breakfast and milk with our other meals. We didn't have juice boxes and fruit snacks. Perhaps part of the "sugar" and fructose panic is because so many of us are drinking most of our calories from a very early age, and there are more products on the market to encourage that. I don't think there were two full aisles of beverages (one for juice and juice products and one for soda and flavored waters) in every supermarket.
  • Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited March 2015

    Well, I'd opt for the less sugar, more vegetables option since that confirms what I already believe to be healthful. But the really interesting part, for me, was that the sugar-is-a-carb-track-carbs-not-sugar advice that's commonly given on the forums might be a little too simplistic? Especially for the morbidly obese.

    That advice is for weight loss, not nutrition. That point is generally made clear.

    Also, if you are on reduced calories reducing non satiating calories from juice and soda would just be common sense (as is the fact that drinking tons of it is probably unhealthy, although I agree the study is interesting). The idea that this means that most people should worry about the fruit they eat seems crazy, though. For most people including fruit is probably a healthy thing to do.
  • Posts: 30,886 Member
    edited March 2015
    rosebette wrote: »
    One of the issues with fructose consumption in children is that children are given a lot of juice or juice products with lots of sugar. Parents think they're doing the right thing by giving these children these drinks, but then the children are also eating their regular diet on top of it. Substituting actual food for those juice calories could make a huge difference (an apple is more filling that a bottle of apple juice). When I was growing up, we had orange juice for breakfast and milk with our other meals. We didn't have juice boxes and fruit snacks. Perhaps part of the "sugar" and fructose panic is because so many of us are drinking most of our calories from a very early age, and there are more products on the market to encourage that. I don't think there were two full aisles of beverages (one for juice and juice products and one for soda and flavored waters) in every supermarket.

    Interesting, and that's definitely the case for me too, and my sister who is younger (39). We had apple or orange juice with breakfast, milk with lunch and dinner, and really didn't drink much at other times other than water (which was from the sink with ice added, not from a bottle). Soda was a rare treat (if we went to McD's or some other restaurant), not something we had regularly either.
  • Posts: 3,171 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »

    That advice is for weight loss, not nutrition. That point is generally made clear.

    Also, if you are on reduced calories reducing non satiating calories from juice and soda would just be common sense. The idea that this means that most people should worry about the fruit they eat seems crazy, though. For most including fruit is probably a healthy thing to do.

    The MPF limit of 15% of your total calories from sugar seems pretty reasonable and certainly allows for fruit, vegetables and dairy. If you're exceeding that limit perhaps there's reason to be concerned? I honestly don't know -- and I don't think the science is there yet either -- but I don't think blowing off peoples concerns about sugar and telling them there's nothing to worry about and to track something else is right. Just my opinion.

    @rosebette There's definitely a difference. When I was growing up juice was for breakfast and was served in juice glasses that were a little bigger than a shot glass. And soda was party food.
  • Posts: 10,674 Member
    edited March 2015
    Eudoxy wrote: »

    Interesting thanks
    Well, a few observations. First of all DNL only happens when there is an excess of carbohydrates and in the presence of an excess of energy. Secondly, fructose is not consumed in isolation and as much glucose was also present.

    Another observation is getting a 13 year old to admit to the amount of calories or food they normally eat and use that as a base line for consumption. Even though weight loss was not significant, as they stated, I would assume there was some, and if extrapolated over say 1 year, how much weight would have they lost, we know it wasn't glycogen lost in those 10 days. Basically they were consuming in a deficit and DNL doesn't happen then or even at maintenance, so of course DNL would be reduced. Now a study were an excess of calories and carbohydrate's are consumed switching out sugar for other sources and the effect on fat accumulation in the liver might be interesting.

    EDIT: my mistake, it was hepatic DNL. Carry on lol.

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