Sugar as evil
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RealFoodisGood wrote: »RealFoodisGood wrote: »The relatively small amount of "sugar" from fruits and veggies is likely fine, but the modern diet contains man-made foods containing far more sugar than the ones packaged in plants.
Sugar in relatively elevated doses may not be that good for you - independent of body weight, as this article states. Sugar isn't just "energy"
http://www.drperlmutter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Am_J_Clin_Nutr-2014-Te_Morenga-ajcn.113.081521.pdf
sugar is sugar ..
eat in a deficit and hit your macros/micros and you will be fine.
I was hoping you could shed some light on the article above. It's a full-text meta-analysis. Any evidence (supporting or refuting) would be welcome.
I am at work today, so I don't have time to read it and give you a full analysis...
but ten grams of sugar in an apple = ten grams of sugar in ice cream ...unless you are claiming that one form of sugar is superior to another?0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Clearly not a sock puppet.
Yep, they rage quit in another thread recently and just keeps coming back0 -
Looks like the "fructose is the devil" studies don't adjust for energy intake
http://www.nutritionjrnl.com/article/S0899-9007(14)00357-8/fulltext
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/240532210 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Does added sugar destroy the other nutrients in the cereal?Gianfranco_R wrote: »if you look at the side of a box of cereal there are nutrients in there
Definitely. Yet there are certain cereals that have more added sugar, especially among the ones for children:
http://www.ewg.org/research/childrens-cereals
I wonder why children have a preference for sugary things. I'm sure it's just a totally meaningless coincidence or something. It's not like they're growing (and other than recent generations, active) and have different energy needs or anything.
Also, why is it that there was TONS of sugary cereal in the 70's (anyone remember "Super Sugar Crisp" cereal?) and "a complete breakfast" was described as a bowl of cereal plus "milk, juice, and toast" and yet there wasn't an epidemic of childhood obesity in the 70's?
I would say it's because children didn't drink tons of soda and juice in between meals. I was one of those kids in the 70s (although my parents bought those cereals occasionally and then stopped because we would pig out on them, and there wouldn't be any left for the rest of the week). Also, we were more active. My siblings and I were "nerds" and bookworms, hardly athletes, but we walked 3/4 of a mile to the bus or school ever day, and walked 3/4 of a mile to the library every week. We also played outside whenever the weather was good. I currently live in a neighborhood where I walk daily, and parents even in fair weather drive their children to the bus stop at the end of the road, less than 1/4 of a mile.0 -
I'm going to post this on the sugar is evil threads from now on. Totally vegan, no-cook, gluten-free, very sweet, no manufactured sugars.
Oops. Edited to add:
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/361132463846318304/
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RealFoodisGood wrote: »RealFoodisGood wrote: »RealFoodisGood wrote: »The relatively small amount of "sugar" from fruits and veggies is likely fine, but the modern diet contains man-made foods containing far more sugar than the ones packaged in plants.
Sugar in relatively elevated doses may not be that good for you - independent of body weight, as this article states. Sugar isn't just "energy"
http://www.drperlmutter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Am_J_Clin_Nutr-2014-Te_Morenga-ajcn.113.081521.pdf
sugar is sugar ..
eat in a deficit and hit your macros/micros and you will be fine.
I was hoping you could shed some light on the article above. It's a full-text meta-analysis. Any evidence (supporting or refuting) would be welcome.
I am at work today, so I don't have time to read it and give you a full analysis...
but ten grams of sugar in an apple = ten grams of sugar in ice cream ...unless you are claiming that one form of sugar is superior to another?
no worries. read at your leisure.
no, I agree, sugar is sugar, but of course packaging and dosage is important.
I happen to agree that it's probably better to have more fruit and fewer cookies in one's diet, but it's not because of the sugar:
Apples - Raw, with skin, 150 g=78 calories, 4 grams fiber, 16 grams sugar
lemurcat12's chocolate chip cookie, 1=206 calories, no fiber, 14 grams sugar
Lots more calories in the cookie, less fiber, fewer nutrients (although a bit more protein and lots more fat if you are in need of fat). NOT more sugar, though.
In a way the "added sugar" designation highlights foods that are likely to contribute little but energy and have lots of calories, but the calories are often not primarily from sugar.
That's one reason soda and juices are different, as they are basically just sugar (with some vitamins too, for juice, depending).
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I want to say it looks delicious- but all those labels just makes me weep.0
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Right click, search google for this image. Chrome is awesome. It looked great until I realized it was one of those evil mashed banana concoctions. I love bananas; not sure why I hate them in things except for banana bread...0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Does added sugar destroy the other nutrients in the cereal?Gianfranco_R wrote: »if you look at the side of a box of cereal there are nutrients in there
Definitely. Yet there are certain cereals that have more added sugar, especially among the ones for children:
http://www.ewg.org/research/childrens-cereals
I wonder why children have a preference for sugary things. I'm sure it's just a totally meaningless coincidence or something. It's not like they're growing (and other than recent generations, active) and have different energy needs or anything.
Also, why is it that there was TONS of sugary cereal in the 70's (anyone remember "Super Sugar Crisp" cereal?) and "a complete breakfast" was described as a bowl of cereal plus "milk, juice, and toast" and yet there wasn't an epidemic of childhood obesity in the 70's?
I would say it's because children didn't drink tons of soda and juice in between meals. I was one of those kids in the 70s (although my parents bought those cereals occasionally and then stopped because we would pig out on them, and there wouldn't be any left for the rest of the week). Also, we were more active. My siblings and I were "nerds" and bookworms, hardly athletes, but we walked 3/4 of a mile to the bus or school ever day, and walked 3/4 of a mile to the library every week. We also played outside whenever the weather was good. I currently live in a neighborhood where I walk daily, and parents even in fair weather drive their children to the bus stop at the end of the road, less than 1/4 of a mile.
I definitely think that the difference in activity levels between then and now is a major factor. (I also live in a neighborhood with lots of young children, but children who seem to spend a lot of time going to scheduled activities that involve being active, and most of these children seem to be of normal weight. Again, there are reasons why some of this is socio-economic and safety-related.)0 -
Right click, search google for this image. Chrome is awesome. It looked great until I realized it was one of those evil mashed banana concoctions. I love bananas; not sure why I hate them in things except for banana bread...
I really love chocolate and banana together, so I may have to try that.
I don't like overly sweet cake-like desserts, though, so the description makes me think I won't like it.0 -
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.
Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:
Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396
So, more bread, less fruit? There's some paleo people who are gathering their sharp sticks somewhere.
Well, I'd opt for the less sugar, more vegetables option since that confirms what I already believe to be healthful. But the really interesting part, for me, was that the sugar-is-a-carb-track-carbs-not-sugar advice that's commonly given on the forums might be a little too simplistic? Especially for the morbidly obese.
That advice is for weight loss, not nutrition. That point is generally made clear.
Also, if you are on reduced calories reducing non satiating calories from juice and soda would just be common sense. The idea that this means that most people should worry about the fruit they eat seems crazy, though. For most including fruit is probably a healthy thing to do.
The MPF limit of 15% of your total calories from sugar seems pretty reasonable and certainly allows for fruit, vegetables and dairy. If you're exceeding that limit perhaps there's reason to be concerned? I honestly don't know -- and I don't think the science is there yet either -- but I don't think blowing off peoples concerns about sugar and telling them there's nothing to worry about and to track something else is right. Just my opinion.
@rosebette There's definitely a difference. When I was growing up juice was for breakfast and was served in juice glasses that were a little bigger than a shot glass. And soda was party food.
I'd have to disagree there. I've gone over the limit from dairy and vegetables because I'm a vegetarian. No fruit eaten at all. It honestly does not allow for much at all.
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I disagree!! I grew up drinking kool aid most everyday, with lots of sugar!! Nope I was never over weight, not even close, why because we, my sisters and I, were outside from morning until the streetlights came on and even sometimes past that!! Kids were active then and now they are not, why??.....because they sit in front of the boobtube playing games or the computer all day long, I hardly ever see kids out playing, like I saw when I was young or even when my children were young!!!!One of the issues with fructose consumption in children is that children are given a lot of juice or juice products with lots of sugar. Parents think they're doing the right thing by giving these children these drinks, but then the children are also eating their regular diet on top of it. Substituting actual food for those juice calories could make a huge difference (an apple is more filling that a bottle of apple juice). When I was growing up, we had orange juice for breakfast and milk with our other meals. We didn't have juice boxes and fruit snacks. Perhaps part of the "sugar" and fructose panic is because so many of us are drinking most of our calories from a very early age, and there are more products on the market to encourage that. I don't think there were two full aisles of beverages (one for juice and juice products and one for soda and flavored waters) in every supermarket.
ETA: As someone also stated, I walked to school a mile each way, kids now are driven to school/bus stop, even if it's a block away, I know as it happens in our small neighborhood, where it at the most 3 blocks away from bus stop and kids are driven to the bus stop and these are not kindergarteners either!! Like 4th graders on up!! We live in society of lazy adults and children!!0 -
It's because all that sugar stimulated the pleasure centers in your brain and you became addicted.mamapeach910 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.
Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:
Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396
So, more bread, less fruit? There's some paleo people who are gathering their sharp sticks somewhere.
Well, I'd opt for the less sugar, more vegetables option since that confirms what I already believe to be healthful. But the really interesting part, for me, was that the sugar-is-a-carb-track-carbs-not-sugar advice that's commonly given on the forums might be a little too simplistic? Especially for the morbidly obese.
That advice is for weight loss, not nutrition. That point is generally made clear.
Also, if you are on reduced calories reducing non satiating calories from juice and soda would just be common sense. The idea that this means that most people should worry about the fruit they eat seems crazy, though. For most including fruit is probably a healthy thing to do.
The MPF limit of 15% of your total calories from sugar seems pretty reasonable and certainly allows for fruit, vegetables and dairy. If you're exceeding that limit perhaps there's reason to be concerned? I honestly don't know -- and I don't think the science is there yet either -- but I don't think blowing off peoples concerns about sugar and telling them there's nothing to worry about and to track something else is right. Just my opinion.
@rosebette There's definitely a difference. When I was growing up juice was for breakfast and was served in juice glasses that were a little bigger than a shot glass. And soda was party food.
I'd have to disagree there. I've gone over the limit from dairy and vegetables because I'm a vegetarian. No fruit eaten at all. It honestly does not allow for much at all.
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
It's because all that sugar stimulated the pleasure centers in your brain and you became addicted.mamapeach910 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Lustig treats obese children; it has to be heartbreaking to see these kids basically killing themselves with junk food and inactivity. I can forgive the dramatics and its certainly brought attention to the issue which usually results in more money for studies.
Anyway, here's a new article (worth reading, IMO) suggesting too much fructose is a cause for concern:
Restricting Fructose Cuts Liver Fat in Kids
Substituting complex carbs for simple sugars over just 10 days shows meaningful results.
http://www.medpagetoday.com/MeetingCoverage/ENDO/50396
So, more bread, less fruit? There's some paleo people who are gathering their sharp sticks somewhere.
Well, I'd opt for the less sugar, more vegetables option since that confirms what I already believe to be healthful. But the really interesting part, for me, was that the sugar-is-a-carb-track-carbs-not-sugar advice that's commonly given on the forums might be a little too simplistic? Especially for the morbidly obese.
That advice is for weight loss, not nutrition. That point is generally made clear.
Also, if you are on reduced calories reducing non satiating calories from juice and soda would just be common sense. The idea that this means that most people should worry about the fruit they eat seems crazy, though. For most including fruit is probably a healthy thing to do.
The MPF limit of 15% of your total calories from sugar seems pretty reasonable and certainly allows for fruit, vegetables and dairy. If you're exceeding that limit perhaps there's reason to be concerned? I honestly don't know -- and I don't think the science is there yet either -- but I don't think blowing off peoples concerns about sugar and telling them there's nothing to worry about and to track something else is right. Just my opinion.
@rosebette There's definitely a difference. When I was growing up juice was for breakfast and was served in juice glasses that were a little bigger than a shot glass. And soda was party food.
I'd have to disagree there. I've gone over the limit from dairy and vegetables because I'm a vegetarian. No fruit eaten at all. It honestly does not allow for much at all.
I clearly need therapy for my cottage cheese and cauliflower habits.
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One of the issues with fructose consumption in children is that children are given a lot of juice or juice products with lots of sugar. Parents think they're doing the right thing by giving these children these drinks, but then the children are also eating their regular diet on top of it. Substituting actual food for those juice calories could make a huge difference (an apple is more filling that a bottle of apple juice). When I was growing up, we had orange juice for breakfast and milk with our other meals. We didn't have juice boxes and fruit snacks. Perhaps part of the "sugar" and fructose panic is because so many of us are drinking most of our calories from a very early age, and there are more products on the market to encourage that. I don't think there were two full aisles of beverages (one for juice and juice products and one for soda and flavored waters) in every supermarket.
I grew up during the 70's and 80's. We had juice or milk for breakfast, some kind of CapriSun, boxed juice or milk for lunch, and water with dinner. Sodas were usually only if we went to a drive thru, which was rarely. School lunches were pretty comparable with today, though more of us brought lunch from home, I think.
My schools had very little problem with overweight kids. Of course, we had more physical activities planned throughout the day what with PE and a couple of recesses where you were required to get your behind outside and go play. Almost no snacking, ever, certainly no vending machines in the schools.
I did go to an equestrian camp one year that fed us orange soda and donuts for breakfast and pizza or burgers for dinner every day for a week. We lost weight running our butts all over the place from 7am to 7pm. Parents still had a conniption when they found out (as they should have).0 -
Having grown up in the 70's & 80's, this is also my experience and perception. We had tons of sugar (we even poured table sugar onto our sugary kid cereals) but we also were very active.
I disagree!! I grew up drinking kool aid most everyday, with lots of sugar!! Nope I was never over weight, not even close, why because we, my sisters and I, were outside from morning until the streetlights came on and even sometimes past that!! Kids were active then and now they are not, why??.....because they sit in front of the boobtube playing games or the computer all day long, I hardly ever see kids out playing, like I saw when I was young or even when my children were young!!!!One of the issues with fructose consumption in children is that children are given a lot of juice or juice products with lots of sugar. Parents think they're doing the right thing by giving these children these drinks, but then the children are also eating their regular diet on top of it. Substituting actual food for those juice calories could make a huge difference (an apple is more filling that a bottle of apple juice). When I was growing up, we had orange juice for breakfast and milk with our other meals. We didn't have juice boxes and fruit snacks. Perhaps part of the "sugar" and fructose panic is because so many of us are drinking most of our calories from a very early age, and there are more products on the market to encourage that. I don't think there were two full aisles of beverages (one for juice and juice products and one for soda and flavored waters) in every supermarket.
And at all the schools I went to, the "fat kid" was not "one of the fat kids" or "the fattest kid" but just the only kid who was any significant amount of overweight.0
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