Alternative to weight training for muscle maintenance?
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OP - if you're getting something like 0.5g of your body weight at present weight, you're probably in the ballpark and you can focus your attention on more pressing matters (I am making an assumption here about your body weight based on the amount of weight your profile says you want to lose).
I am obese (5'6 and 210lb), but underneath all the fat I think I have a lot of muscle, because I have been doing resistance training for the past seven years (I was normal weight three years ago and then gained 80lbs (long story there, but I won't go into that)), but I continued doing resistance training all the while. So while I used to be able to (for example) hold my 140lb of weight in a plank position for 30 seconds, now I can still do the same weighing 210lb. That must mean I'm a lot stronger than I used to be, and I'd quite like to retain that while I'm losing the fat.
So going by Cortelli's reckoning, I should have around 105g of protein? Rather than the 60 recommended by MFP? These are my daily recommendations:
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The blog about calisthenics was awesome! The gym or buying equipment to lift heavy just isn't in my budget right now. Using my own body weight and gravity for resistance is perfect! I'm challenging myself to do 5 cal workouts a week for the next 30 days and increase the difficulty of the moves each month after. Ty for posting this!0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
So going by Cortelli's reckoning, I should have around 105g of protein? Rather than the 60 recommended by MFP? These are my daily recommendations:
MFP recommendations are super light on protein and heavy on carbs. If you want to maintain muscle, you definitely should up the protein in your diet. I try to eat 1g protein per pound of lean body mass, which for me is approximately 140g protein. Because MFP works in percentages, I have my goals set to 45% carb, 25% fat, and 30% protein.
Setting up a good diet can be confusing. I hope you like numbers
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MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low.
MFP recommendations are super light on protein and heavy on carbs. If you want to maintain muscle, you definitely should up the protein in your diet...
Setting up a good diet can be confusing. I hope you like numbers
I love numbers. However I have to admit it is all getting a little confusing. (:-)
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low.
MFP recommendations are super light on protein and heavy on carbs. If you want to maintain muscle, you definitely should up the protein in your diet...
Setting up a good diet can be confusing. I hope you like numbers
I love numbers. However I have to admit it is all getting a little confusing. (:-)
Yeah, there's a lot of conflicting advice out there. I joined the more-protein train when I was getting overuse injuries all the time and figured out it was because I was eating like 70% carbs at the time. Once I let myself eat a lot more meat, eggs, etc. I got a lot stronger. And for me, eating proportionally more fat and protein keeps me a lot more full during the day and I don't get randomly bloated as much.
That being said, it's all about what works for you. If you're getting stronger the way you're currently eating and not having any other issues, I'd say ignore the trends and just keep doing what you're doing. But if you're hungry all the time or getting injured or having stomach problems, it might be worth trying out a lower-carb diet for a while. (Not to be confused with Atkins. Don't go that far.)0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
OP - if you're getting something like 0.5g of your body weight at present weight, you're probably in the ballpark and you can focus your attention on more pressing matters (I am making an assumption here about your body weight based on the amount of weight your profile says you want to lose).
I am obese (5'6 and 210lb), but underneath all the fat I think I have a lot of muscle, because I have been doing resistance training for the past seven years (I was normal weight three years ago and then gained 80lbs (long story there, but I won't go into that)), but I continued doing resistance training all the while. So while I used to be able to (for example) hold my 140lb of weight in a plank position for 30 seconds, now I can still do the same weighing 210lb. That must mean I'm a lot stronger than I used to be, and I'd quite like to retain that while I'm losing the fat.
So going by Cortelli's reckoning, I should have around 105g of protein? Rather than the 60 recommended by MFP? These are my daily recommendations:
I favor setting protein and fat macronutrient goals based on grams, not percentages of total intake (but MFP doesn't have this capability). When I am bulking, I try to get about 0.8g or a little more of protein per lb of lbm. When I am in a deficit / losing, I try to get at least 1.1g per lb of LBM and sometimes closer to 1.4 / 1.5. Many would consider that excess.
I took a stab at recommending an amount of protein for you just based on the amount of weight you want to lose, and guestimated you might have somewhere around 100 - 130 lbs of LBM, which means I was suggesting you get about the same in numbers of grams of protein per day. To be clear, I don't think 0.5g per pound of bodyweight is "the goal" or the proper ratio for any comers -- it was just shorthand for saying that I figured you were somewhere north of 200 lbs total body weight, had somewhere in the low hundred+ of LBM, and based on that you might reasonably target somewhere in the low hundred+ for protein target.
The general RDAs (in the US) for protein are for an "average" person in generic circumstances and focused on health needs. Being in a calorie deficit means your body has to use stored energy to make up the deficit -- in an ideal scenario this stored energy would all come from available fat stores. In reality, we all lose a little LBM as well while in a deficit. So I look to ways to reduce the amount of LBM I lose while dieting.
There are, IMHO, three important factors in limiting LBM loss while losing weight: (1) adequate protein; (2) resistance training; and (3) a conservative deficit, at least when available fat stores are not plentiful. If very interested, I can dig up some studies that shows dieters eating 2 and 3 times the RDA of protein had better lean mass retention while in a calorie deficit (as I am sure many others could dig up as well). And if interested I'll dig up the research re: 1.1g - 1.4g recommendations for relatively lean, resistance-trained athletes in a calorie deficit.
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low.
MFP recommendations are super light on protein and heavy on carbs. If you want to maintain muscle, you definitely should up the protein in your diet...
Setting up a good diet can be confusing. I hope you like numbers
I love numbers. However I have to admit it is all getting a little confusing. (:-)
Don't stress it. Exact numbers don't matter. If you don't feel like toying with percentages either just visually keep track of protein and make sure it's over 100 (preferably over 120 if you could manage it). Personally I can't manage it due to my food preferences, but if you can it would help a lot muscle-wise.0 -
Vinyasa yoga! I lift weights (not that heavy- I don't have a gym membership and my home equipment is pretty basic). I find that I am WAY more sore and can feel some serious strength gains after vinyasa classes. The impact of all those downward facing dogs, warrior poses and chaturangahs is pretty intense.0
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Always interested to see relevant research; if it's not too much trouble please do post those studies you mentioned. (Thanks!)
I'm quite up for including more protein; although it is not what I'd normally choose it seems to make me feel better. So often in the past I've had "just one apple" trigger a massive carb-binge so I'm keeping those numbers (carbs and sugar) well below the MFP recommended amounts.
I've just adjusted my 'goals' - does this look about right? I wasn't quite sure what to do re the carb/fat ratios.
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Terri – I did practice ashtanga yoga but I had to modify the routine (I got plantar fasciitis from being too fat, so I had to cut out the standing postures) – but basically my resistance workout is a modified version of ashtanga yoga (holding the strengthening positions, e.g. planks, for as long as possible).0
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Chrysalid2014 wrote: »... I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose). I simply cannot stand weight training but I do a [bodyweight exercise] program.... My question is, will these type of exercises perform the same function as weight training?
I use alot of bodyweight exercises in my program and it is certainly good fitness, but I do not think you will build enough muscle without weights. You need to lift weights and lift heavy to build sufficient muscle.
Most people, especially women, do NOT have a good base of muscle to prevent injury, enable movement, and enhance metabolism. As we age it is especially important to replace the muscle we start losing.
All those aches and pains in our shoulders, knees, feet from walking or other movements get better as we fix the muscle weaknesses, tightness, and imbalances in our bodies. It is kind of hard to strengthen your glutes or hamstrings sufficiently with mere hip raises.
Let me know if you have any questions about what I said.
Jim
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OP I already posted the studies to which Cortelli was referring. Follow the link in my first post.0
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OP, those new numbers you put up look off to me. 2 issues I see is you set yourself up for 1200 calories, not sure why, but at the same time you're going for 150g of protein. It's unlikely that you need that much protein. By doing all that you 3nd up with 40g of fat, which is low. And 60g of carbs which might be to low for you. How much do you weigh?
I'm 5'6" and weigh 210lb. 1200 calories was the amount MFP 'selected' for me after I input my goals – that's supposed to give me a loss of 1.8lb per week. I selected 150g of protein based on the recommendations made in the previous posts to keep it around 100-130g.
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JimFsfitnesspal wrote: »
I use alot of bodyweight exercises in my program and it is certainly good fitness, but I do not think you will build enough muscle without weights. You need to lift weights and lift heavy to build sufficient muscle.
Let me know if you have any questions about what I said.
JimIt's weird because I thought the title of the thread said muscle maintenance not bulking.
Yes, I think I'm already fairly muscular; as I mentioned I've been doing resistance training the whole time I've been gaining weight. So I really want to keep what I've got rather than build. I'm not sure how accurate those measuring machines (the ones that you stand on and hold the handles) are but according to one of those my fat free mass is 138.4lbs. Now as my ideal weight is 126lbs, if I could keep most of that...
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »OP I already posted the studies to which Cortelli was referring. Follow the link in my first post.
Danggit, Acrylics! I just wasted two minutes that I'll never get back looking for that link!
(and yes, that is the exact link I wanted to provide since it has a collection of studies all in one place).
And OP - here is a link where Sara delves into great detail on some research by Eric Helms that suggests the higher protein requirements (1.1g - 1.4g per lb of lbm) may be more beneficial for lean mass retention while in a caloric deficit. But beware that those higher amounts were applied to subjects that were relatively young, relatively lean already, and resistance-trained athletes. Sara's post contains additional links to the study itself and some supporting materials (in addition to the already-linked post that Acrylics provided).
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1158604
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »OP I already posted the studies to which Cortelli was referring. Follow the link in my first post.
Danggit, Acrylics! I just wasted two minutes that I'll never get back looking for that link! (and yes, that is the exact link I wanted to provide since it has a collection of studies all in one place).
And OP - here is a link where Sara delves into great detail on some research by Eric Helms that suggests the higher protein requirements (1.1g - 1.4g per lb of lbm) may be more beneficial for lean mass retention while in a caloric deficit. But beware that those higher amounts were applied to subjects that were relatively young, relatively lean already, and resistance-trained athletes. Sara's post contains additional links to the study itself and some supporting materials (in addition to the already-linked post that Acrylics provided).
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1158604
:laugh: Great minds and all.0 -
Will do - thanks.ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »OP I already posted the studies to which Cortelli was referring. Follow the link in my first post.
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