Alternative to weight training for muscle maintenance?
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I noticed you are using 1200 calories per day in your settings - is that a bit low? You may find this of interest - http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/.
Thanks – I tried it and it's giving me a TDEE of 1606 calories a day, so I don't think 1200 is too low.
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and no way should you weigh the same as a teenager .. I'm currently 16lbs above my lowest weight when I was 19/20 .. and I look almost as good .. it's not about the weight on the scale it's about the body fat
Yeah, perhaps it's a little to early to be factoring muscle wasting in... my Dad reckons he's lost around 10lbs every decade, but then he is 84 years old! (and getting shorter as well.)
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per lb protein. Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself.
That's not realistic at all, and not even necessary. You are advocating that a 250 pound person eats 500 grams of protein. That's 2000 calories of protein alone! Not to mention it often comes packed with fat and carbs, so no way one would lose weight on that. 1.5 gram per kg is often suggested, but could also go for 1 gram per pound of body mass.
I agree that 2 grams per pound of protein is excessive for anyone.
I'm not understanding where you are coming from with saying you can't lose weight on eating that much protein, so perhaps you can explain.
Weight loss is calories in/calories out and macros are for nutrition and body composition. I certainly wouldn't want to try it because I suspect I'd feel lousy, but if that 2,000 calorie is under a person's TDEE, why do you think they would not lose weight? Weight loss is not dependent on macro balance.0 -
+1 for the "you are your own gym" program. That's what I do and its great. I use the app (its a paid app, but worth the 3 bucks you pay for it). It tells you exactly what to do when and even gives a video and written instructions on how to do each move.
Highly recommend.
I might move onto a heavy lifting program in the future, but until I have the space to buy the equipment or the money for a gym membership, YAYOG is a great strength program for me.0 -
The activity settings are guidelines only, and will take some trial and error.Chrysalid2014 wrote: »90 minutes per day of exercise is not sedentary. You need to understand that.
When I joined up on MFP it gave me a questionnaire to fill in and based on that it told me I have a "sedentary" lifestyle. It then went on to ask how much exercise I intended to do. So I think it separates lifestyle from additional exercise:
So the 1200 calorie goal is for a day when I do nothing, and if I do exercise the number on the chart for that day increases.Also, look up to my previous post that I edited. And read it. Read it twice if you have to
Yes - thanks for that. I understand that I can't have more LBM than I weigh, but I was hoping to keep as much of what I've got as possible. And as for my healthy weight, I re-checked it on the NHS calculator and apparently my lowest healthy weight is 8st3, which is 115lb. I did weigh 110 at the same height I am now (admittedly that was when I was 19) and was too thin, but before this recent gain I was 138lb and still a little flabby. But I can reevaluate that once I get a little closer to the goal.
I have a desk job and I have my settings at active because I weight lift 3 times a week followed by about 30-40 minutes of cardio, run three to four times a week (but sometimes take Saturday off), and I eat my exercise calories back. I lost weight this way and I maintain this way.0 -
Which part is wrong? MFP gives me 20% of my weight which equals to 75 grams as a protein goal. It is in the 10-35% range of medical guidelines, but way above the minimum recommended 45 grams for the average woman (and my BMI is below average, so my size is not the issue). If I go by the 0.8 grams per kilo, I get 46 grams of protein. With both scenarios the 76 grams goal is really a lot. If I were to adopt the mythical gram per lb, I would get a 127 grams per day goal, which is triple the minimal medical recommendation. I am not saying it is harmful, but by no means it is a valid minimum number.Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low. The 1 gram per lb as minimum intake is an old myth, the recommended protein for the average person is half that if not less. This is recognised as a myth even by bodybuilders. Check here for example: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.
That entire post is just wrong. Wrong, MFP's default protein is not high. It's actually in line with what sedentary people require. People that train will require a higher amount.
When you're bulking you actually don't even need as much protein as when cutting. Less on a bulk is perfectly fine. So what you said was wrong.
http://www.iom.edu/Reports/2002/Dietary-Reference-Intakes-for-Energy-Carbohydrate-Fiber-Fat-Fatty-Acids-Cholesterol-Protein-and-Amino-Acids.aspx
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/what-should-you-eat/protein/
And here is a link (which in itself I would not use as reference) which contains at the end a lot of studies about the needed protein for muscle maintenance and growth are a lot lower than what many seem to believe.
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/
Or you can check here, where the reported needed prootein intake for an athelte is only 55 grams per lb.
http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need-science-weighs-in
So, other than going against the "eat high protein and buy protein shakes" crowd on MFP, how is my post wrong?
Awww, it looks like your links don't support you. I'm happy to play along.
So just to be clear , you weight 58kg or 127 lbs.
I didn't link the whole reading since it's basically just linking a whole article. I'll copy some of the parts in your article I think you missed.The RDA for protein was based on the results of all available studies that estimated the minimum protein intake required to avoid progressive loss of lean body mass as reflected by nitrogen balance. The Food and Nutrition Board admitted that relying solely on results from nitrogen balance studies to determine the RDA did have limitations, because this method does not measure any relevant physiological end point. Additionally, the existing data were gathered almost exclusively in college-aged men and a greater nitrogen intake was likely required to maintain nitrogen balance in elderly persons. Regardless of whether .36 grams/pound/day is an appropriate value for the RDA for elderly persons as well as for individuals 18- to 50-years-old, the point is the RDA is functionally defined as the amount of protein needed to avoid a deficiency that would lead to a progressive loss of lean body mass (as reflected by negative nitrogen balance). - See more at: http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need-science-weighs-in#sthash.3wbSDnkl.dpufWell, there you have it. After sifting through all the murky data and interpretations, we know THE MINIMUM amount of protein required to avoid losing muscle mass is around .36 grams/pound of body weight per day needed for growth and repair of muscles, bone, tendons, skin, hair, and other tissues. But we are talking about inactive, non-athletic humans here. Of course these individuals would require less than an active trainee/athlete. What if you’re an avid strength-trainer? What if an endurance or sport-playing athlete? The daily menu of intense, energy-depleting training components such as lifting, running, and practicing, taxes the skeletal-muscle system way beyond the average sedentary Jane and Joe. Will .36 grams/pound/day of protein be enough for growth and repair? NO! Athletes, strength-trainers, endurance athletes and other ACTIVE people need more protein due to the simple fact their bodies are being “abused.” The MINIMUM amount of protein for athletes should be at least .55 grams/pound/day. Depending upon your sport or training regimen, the daily requirement can go as high as .9 to 1 grams/pound. To determine a reasonable estimate of your daily protein needs, use this calculator that factors in your age, height, weight, activity level, and training goals. - See more at: http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need-science-weighs-in#sthash.3wbSDnkl.dpuf
It's hilarious how you used the same link many of us use to recommend that people eat .6-.87g per lb of bodyweight. You want to know how I know you didn't read that link? Because it doesn't support your stance. If you would have read it you would have seen this last line it it and decided that you shouldn't use it.....This article in 6 words: Consume 0.82g/lb of protein every day
OHHHHHHH........SO SORRY. Thanks for playing. Oh yeah, and for the record, I don't drink protein shakes.
Uhm, did you read the whole article, or did you just take a random number (the 0.82 gr) and put it in the rest out of context?
"Protein intake simplified:
If you’re an avid athlete/trainee, you need more than the consensus of .36 grams/pound/day (.55 to 1 gram/pound/day). Use the on-line calculator that offers a reasonable estimate of your daily needs.
Divide the total estimate by the number of meals you consume each day. Try to eat that amount at each meal.
- See more at: http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need-science-weighs-in#sthash.3wbSDnkl.eLxUnAdV.dpuf"
Now, I am sedentary, with about 3 strength training sessions per week plus some mild cardio per week, which I doubt makes me any less sedentary as a whole, and per the calculator linkes in the article, just right after the part you pasted , I am, surprise suprise at 46 grams per day. If we assume my activity puts me at mildly active level, then this would increase. But realistically, no, I am not really changing my lifestyle activity by lifting weights 3 times per weeks, and neither does OP or most people on this site, who otherwise are not active other than these gym visits. An "avid athlete" is not a person who spends a few hours per week at a gym.0 -
What MrM said. If you think lifting 3 times a week is not being active you're not lifting, you're *kitten* around.0
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stevencloser wrote: »What MrM said. If you think lifting 3 times a week is not being active you're not lifting, you're *kitten* around.
Not only that, but people who are losing weight as per most researches on the matter, need more protein than people who are simply maintaining, even if they are sedentary.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low. The 1 gram per lb as minimum intake is an old myth, the recommended protein for the average person is half that if not less. This is recognised as a myth even by bodybuilders. Check here for example: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.
Everything you just said is entirely incorrect.
And a myth recognized by bodybuilders? Did you read the article you linked? It blows everything you said out of the water, denying the "evil" of a high protein diet and affirming that a diet higher in protein than the RDA is beneficial to those involved in strength training.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low. The 1 gram per lb as minimum intake is an old myth, the recommended protein for the average person is half that if not less. This is recognised as a myth even by bodybuilders. Check here for example: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.
Everything you just said is entirely incorrect.
And a myth recognized by bodybuilders? Did you read the article you linked? It blows everything you said out of the water, denying the "evil" of a high protein diet and affirming that a diet higher in protein than the RDA is beneficial to those involved in strength training.
I think she thinks the heading of the article is all that matters. Especially since basically the entire article contradicted her. I still can't get over how funny it is that she used that article as her evidence when that is a very well known and go to one to recommend the stuff she's trying to say isn't valid.
Yup.
Unfortunately, google only works for those who read the search results before posting links.
ETA: I wonder if they titled the article that way just so people trying to prove what she is would google "protein myth" and find it. lol0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »I noticed you are using 1200 calories per day in your settings - is that a bit low? You may find this of interest - http://iifym.com/iifym-calculator/.
Thanks – I tried it and it's giving me a TDEE of 1606 calories a day, so I don't think 1200 is too low.
No it's not.
It's telling you that your BMR is 1606.
I ran it with your numbers, 47yo female, 5'6", 210#
According to the iifym calculator, you should be eating about 1870 cals a day.0 -
lishie_rebooted wrote: »
No it's not.
It's telling you that your BMR is 1606.
I ran it with your numbers, 47yo female, 5'6", 210#
According to the iifym calculator, you should be eating about 1870 cals a day.
Oh – I see. I was looking at the wrong number! Thanks for the correction... 1870 sounds good to me! (:-)0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low. The 1 gram per lb as minimum intake is an old myth, the recommended protein for the average person is half that if not less. This is recognised as a myth even by bodybuilders. Check here for example: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.
You say its a myth then give a link to a website saying its not?
"CONCLUSION
Hopefully you've been convinced that a high protein intake is not "evil." Protein intake ranging from 1.4 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight to one gram per pound or more can be beneficial for an individual involved in an intense training program. Protein has been typecast as something that will make you big and strong, but muscle growth is not controlled by the level of protein one takes; rather it is the growth demand caused by intense training or stress that will ultimately determine how much protein one should take in."
Thanks you letting me know your advice should be ignored.0 -
OP you asked about double checking your exercise calories... https://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities/home
You should probably adjust for your own body (https://sites.google.com/site/compendiumofphysicalactivities/corrected-mets) and don't forget that everything is an estimate!0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Looks like I need to double up on my current amount of protein, then. I thought I was doing well by eating the MyFitnessPal recommended amount (I'm normally a carbs person) but even using the most modest calculation suggested in these comments (1g per lb) would double that amount.
I think I'm going to purchase the Convict Conditioning book and I'll check out that nerdfitness.com site as well. I do try to make the exercises I currently do more difficult by holding the positions for longer. Basically I'm trying to feel like I exert the same amount of effort each time, so as I get fitter I will be doing more and more actual work.
Thanks to all for the replies – you've been very helpful!
MFP by default gives to you double or even triple the recommended protein, at least based on what most medical organisations recommend to eat. So, unless you are in need of a high protein diet for whatever reason, then the MFP numbers are already too high, not too low. The 1 gram per lb as minimum intake is an old myth, the recommended protein for the average person is half that if not less. This is recognised as a myth even by bodybuilders. Check here for example: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/maki1.htm
It is an upper limit that might be of help when bulking (eating at a surplus and following an appropriate strength trainign program) but it is by no means a minimum recommended number.
That entire post is just wrong. Wrong, MFP's default protein is not high. It's actually in line with what sedentary people require. People that train will require a higher amount.
When you're bulking you actually don't even need as much protein as when cutting. Less on a bulk is perfectly fine. So what you said was wrong.
Protein alone is not going to ward of muscle loss. If you don't put your muscles through some kind of tension/resistance it won't see the need to keep them as big. You know what increases MPS? Training, not protein intake overload.Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Like most people on MFP, I would like to maintain as much muscle as possible while losing fat (I have 80+ pounds to lose).
2g per kg protein (minus fat). Eating that much protein gives your body no reason to catabolic itself (my diary is open if you want to see an example of this).
Also, lower the weights if you have trouble getting into a position needed for lifts. The shaking could also be an indication of too much weight. It is also a sign that the smaller muscle groups are too weak. Dont just focus on biceps, triceps, and thighs. you should focus on your back muscles, shoulder, etc as well.
eg, try 8lbs instead of 20lbs for lateral raises (common mistake I see and read about others doing). lateral rises will help condition smaller muscle groups that support larger muscles when doing exercises such as a military press.
More protein = full longer = you end up eating less = you don't notice that you ate less. its all about satiety.
If you set calories to 1400 and eat 1.4g (minus fat) protein you end up eating less carbs after fats. If youre 90kg with 30% bf = 63kg lean. 63 * 1.4 = 88g protein. If you use 2g = 126g protein. Notice how these are not massive numbers?
protein = 4 cal
fat = 9 cal
carb = 4 cal
88g protein = 352 calories
you should eat 50-60g fat a day. 50g fat = 450 calories.
= 800 calories
1400 - 800 = 600 remaining calories
600 calories of carbs = 150g carbs.
you end up with:
1400 calories
88g protein
50g fat
150g carbs.
If you dont lose some weight after three weeks, lower the carbs to 125g. its that simple. if you end up lowering the carbs to 80g and you still don't lose weight then you are either eating more than you think or you have some medical issue that a doctor needs to address.
btw,
Just sitting around all day uses around .4g protein a day (look the studies up yourself). When you exercise, you end using more protein. This is why its recommended to eat at least 1.4g per kg (minus fat) when exercising. The more intense your workout, the more protein gets used by your body (not just the muscles). Every scientific paper on this agrees that 2g per kg (minus fat) is enough for heavy exercising (at least 2 hours lifting weights). You can lower it down to 1.4 if you exercise less than that. I didnt say that more protein = ward muscle loss, I said it prevents it from catabolizing itself with no specific words saying it was muscles that are catabolized (you assumed this, so I assume you have no idea what you are talking about and just spewing nonsense you half-assed read somewhere). I was keeping it simple w/o explaining what happens as it was not needed to answer the OPs question. As for the big muscle part, you need to eat a caloric surplus for that to happen. If you are eating a caloric deficit, the best you can hope for is that you lose no muscle mass.
Also your profile 'about me' makes me think no one should ever listen to you.
"Staple foods for me: Pizza, Count Chocula Cereal, Bagels with cream cheese, Egg whites, whole eggs, bacon, chicken breast, cookies, sirloin, tacos, pizza, Peanut Butter & Co. Dark White Chocolate Wonderful, Ice cream & Gelato, pizza "
Bottom line, you can listen to my advice or you can sit there all day starving and eventually gorging yourself back to your starting weight.0 -
[. . . snip . . .]
Also your profile 'about me' makes me think no one should ever listen to you.
"Staple foods for me: Pizza, Count Chocula Cereal, Bagels with cream cheese, Egg whites, whole eggs, bacon, chicken breast, cookies, sirloin, tacos, pizza, Peanut Butter & Co. Dark White Chocolate Wonderful, Ice cream & Gelato, pizza "
Bottom line, you can listen to my advice or you can sit there all day starving and eventually gorging yourself back to your starting weight.
Oh dear me.
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OP: I just read an "edit" by someone who double checked your stated goals.
So, to confirm, you want to weigh less than 98% the women who are the same age and height as you. AND when you weigh 124lbs you would like to maintain the muscles you used to propel your current 210lb body.
Setting goals is great, and "technically" you are not trying to move below what is medically acceptable. Assuming it is truly medically acceptable to weigh less than 98+% of your peers.
Your stated goal makes me uncomfortable, so I will move on.
If you want to re-evaluate, check out this cheesy, yet informative, site: www.halls.md and http://halls.md/body-mass-index/bmi.htm
Best of luck.0
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