The "Food Babe" Blogger Is Full of Crap
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This is awesome & absolutely hilarious. Thank you for posting.0
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Ok this is definitely one of the best MFP threads since I have joined. And there haven't even been any kitty gifs - so you know that is high praise.
It is people like Food Babe who make me glad I don't facebook (although science babe sounds like someone who might make me consider joining). I clicked over on the link someone posted above for her response and boy, for someone who complains about the chemicals she sure looked like someone who uses a lot of them to fancy herself up.
Also love that I was reading the article while eating gelato (oh no sugar) and also doing my nails (not food but oh my the chemicals!)0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I suspect it's a semantic argument.crazyjerseygirl wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Unfortunately humans suck at truth detection.
I don't agree with this. IMO it's more accurate to say humans excel at ignoring the truth when it's not what they want to hear.
I think what was meant that our senses were not evolved to figure out quantum mechanics, evolution, etc. we need the tool of the scientific method to find those truths.
Quantum mechanics isn't a "truth", it's a logical outcome of our limited perspective.
Electrons don't do math to figure out where to go next....
Nothing like approaching it with an open mind.
We use the same parts of our brains, and thus all the same defective/illusion-generating pathways, to determine all of those things.
Our brains evolved under a specific set of stimuli and our "intelligence" is limited to that, and our math (formalized logic) is limited to that. The reason quantum mechanics is the reference point is because that's precisely where all the "intelligence" we developed in response to the macro world breaks down.
1+1 only equals 2 under very specific, and on the scale of the universe, relatively rare conditions.And if you're really going to argue about electrons, it actually isn't possible to say whether or not they do math. If our entire known universe is an OOP computer program nested inside a larger universe, for example, it may very well be the case that electrons do math to figure out where to go next.
That's just adding another turtle to a rather large pile of turtles.
"Intelligence" is, in the end, just another form of bias.0 -
I don't get flu shots. I'm not saying that other people shouldn't, but the body's immunity is a wonderful thing. I've never had a flu shot before, so although I get sick often, its not nasty. I don't know why, but when I get sick, I feel fine and it never lasts more than a couple of days. Vaccines are a good thing but I don't feel the need to get a flu shot.0
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I agree with Hari's statements, however its not practical. THere is no way that we can go natural in this day and age. Don't try to fool yourself and believe that by going organic you will live a chemical free life.0
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Ok, I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure how this relates to the ability of humans to figure things out, which is what I meant by "truth detection."LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I don't understand what you're trying to say, but I suspect it's a semantic argument.crazyjerseygirl wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Unfortunately humans suck at truth detection.
I don't agree with this. IMO it's more accurate to say humans excel at ignoring the truth when it's not what they want to hear.
I think what was meant that our senses were not evolved to figure out quantum mechanics, evolution, etc. we need the tool of the scientific method to find those truths.
Quantum mechanics isn't a "truth", it's a logical outcome of our limited perspective.
Electrons don't do math to figure out where to go next....
Nothing like approaching it with an open mind.We use the same parts of our brains, and thus all the same defective/illusion-generating pathways, to determine all of those things.
Our brains evolved under a specific set of stimuli and our "intelligence" is limited to that, and our math (formalized logic) is limited to that. The reason quantum mechanics is the reference point is because that's precisely where all the "intelligence" we developed in response to the macro world breaks down.
1+1 only equals 2 under very specific, and on the scale of the universe, relatively rare conditions.And if you're really going to argue about electrons, it actually isn't possible to say whether or not they do math. If our entire known universe is an OOP computer program nested inside a larger universe, for example, it may very well be the case that electrons do math to figure out where to go next.
That's just adding another turtle to a rather large pile of turtles.
"Intelligence" is, in the end, just another form of bias.
We did evolve to be able to tell what's going on in our environment, but clearly (as demonstrated by optical illusions and the equivalent cognitive fails) we are far from perfect at it.
It seems we agree on that point: that our natural abilities to figure out what is or isn't the case, or how something works, are limited and biased in many ways. You had said earlier you disagreed and that people were instead just really good at ignoring what they otherwise knew to be true. (FTR I agree that people are also good at that.)
I know the metaphor you're using, but I don't know what the other turtles are supposed to represent. Anyway the point is any model is just a model and doesn't actually speak to the real nature of whatever thingies exist or not at that level. Whether or not electrons have feelings, or do math, or are made of bananas, is irrelevant to the model we're talking about. If it accurately describes/predicts, that's the only thing that's relevant, and the only "truth" one could extract from it.That's just adding another turtle to a rather large pile of turtles.0 -
Demon_Lord wrote: »I don't get flu shots. I'm not saying that other people shouldn't, but the body's immunity is a wonderful thing. I've never had a flu shot before, so although I get sick often, its not nasty. I don't know why, but when I get sick, I feel fine and it never lasts more than a couple of days. Vaccines are a good thing but I don't feel the need to get a flu shot.
Do you realize that when you get the flu, and your super amazing immune system fights it off easily (so far) that you are still quite contagious and are spreading it to others who may not have the ability to fight off such an illness with ease, or may fall into the category of people who are not able to get a flu shot themselves? The very young, very old, and immuno comprimised people out there...they're the ones at risk. Just because you can fight something off easily doesn't mean others can. We don't vaccinate strictly for ourselves. We vaccinate to protect all of us. If you don't get the flu in the first place, you can't be the jerk that gave it to a baby, or the person going through chemo, or your grandma...1 -
If you choose not to vaccinate your kid for any other reason than they are immune compromised or have a legit allergy to the vaccine then please home school them and keep them away from the public. Not vaccinating for "reasons" is selfish beyond belief.
Allergy is not an excuse. My oldest tested positive to whole eggs, egg yokes, and egg whites. (Yes, they tested all three and he is legit allergic. Annoying, not life threatening.) He gets a flu shot every year and is up to date on all other vaccines. The American board of pediatrics says egg allergies are not a contraindication.0 -
This is unfortunately very true not just on these forums but pretty much anywhere in the health world. I love the internet but I also hate it because of how quickly misinformation spreads. I teach community hypertension classes and you would be amazed what people bring to class...Food Babe has been brought up more than once. But although she's an obvious idiot, there are plenty of other "health bloggers" out there who sound very convincing with the utter crap they write, and the average person (esp since most of the people I work with are senior citizens and really don't navigate Google too well) are not good at critically looking at that kind of stuff. If someone sounds convincing enough, it must be true, right? They list sources so they must be legit (but don't actually go look at the sources), right? etc.
But I say all that because you quickly learn that people don't really want to hear they're wrong. They want to hear this supplement they just spent $50 will do what the label promises it will. They want to hear that if they just eat THIS and never eat THAT they won't ever get cancer. They want to hear that if they follow THIS PERFECT DIET everything will be okay - because speaking in absolutes is reassuring for some people. They want "the answer" when unfortunately very few things in life have "the" answer to anything. There is no magical pill or cleanse or detox or whatever.
This! One hundred, million times this! I love this post
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There was an interesting story on NPR about the time Disneyland was having their measles outbreak. It looked at how other developed countries looked a vaccination - pretty sure they focused on Denmark, Sweden, Finland and a few others. There vaccination rates are high because the population there seems to understand the notion that vaccination is a responsibility that healthy people do to protect those who cannot get vaccinated. In the US it seems more people only look at themselves and how things impact them and have lost the notion of the bigger picture and thinking of others.
Sadly.0 -
People can have other allergies to ingredients in vaccines other than those you've mentioned. It's extremely rare, but it is a possible. For those people with actual, medically tested and documented issues, not vaxing is perfectly acceptable. Herd immunity should protect them, but it can't if there are too many in the herd who aren't protected.0
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People can have other allergies to ingredients in vaccines other than those you've mentioned. It's extremely rare, but it is a possible. For those people with actual, medically tested and documented issues, not vaxing is perfectly acceptable. Herd immunity should protect them, but it can't if there are too many in the herd who aren't protected.
This is true. It is rare, yes. But I would never tell someone who has had an anaphylaxis reaction to a vaccine that they should just take a chance with their kid. I typically advise them to talk with their pediatrician.
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This too. It's very seductive. There's so many ways to end up being wrong about things!rjmudlax13 wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »Unfortunately humans suck at truth detection. Many things like repetition, fear, and other strong emotions produce illusions of truth or untruth. The result is that there is no relationship between how convincing something is and how true it is. But we're also hard-wired to completely trust in the infallibility of our own truth-detecting abilities, maybe because second-guessing one's judgment all the time would result in poor survival skills. So using evidence-based reasoning requires real humility to understand just how wrong our instincts are, as well as the intelligence to actually implement it.
And unfortunately, most people do not possess both of these, so it's always going to be difficult to impossible for many people to figure out what is or isn't true. There are always going to be people whose only choice is to believe whatever someone else told them, whether it's because the message sounds convincing or because the messenger is charismatic, or whatever.
Science can allow some of us to make progress and drag the rest along for the ride, but it cannot prevent stupid people from believing stupid things.
tldr; derpers gonna derp.
I agree with most of this. Also, I would add that people have a desire for their ideas to be novel. They want to feel superior because "they know the real truth" and all those "sheep" are so inferior for not seeing it. It's ironic because they also have a desire to be part of an "awaken" group who all have the same "novel" ideas.
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People can have other allergies to ingredients in vaccines other than those you've mentioned. It's extremely rare, but it is a possible. For those people with actual, medically tested and documented issues, not vaxing is perfectly acceptable. Herd immunity should protect them, but it can't if there are too many in the herd who aren't protected.
This is true. It is rare, yes. But I would never tell someone who has had an anaphylaxis reaction to a vaccine that they should just take a chance with their kid. I typically advise them to talk with their pediatrician.
I'm not exactly sure which angle you're coming at here. You would or wouldn't tell someone to "take a chance" with a tested and documented anaphylactic reaction? If someone is so severely allergic that their airway is going to occlude and they will die without emergency care from receiving a specific vaccine, I'd sat that's a pretty big contraindication to receive it. However, that is where the "medically tested and documented" part comes into play. The doctor's advice is the top priority on the issue. These very, very few people should be protected by everyone else vaccinating. It's sad that the safety net is being pulled out from under them and those in other categories who aren't able to vaccinate by the anti-vax (pro-disease) community.0 -
Oh, my bad. I'm not writing well tonight. We are in agreement. I'm saying that while severe allergies to vaccines are exceedingly rare, they are possible. If a parent told me their kid had experienced such a reaction previously, they should NOT be having more vaccines without guidance from their pediatrician. I know this seems like common sense, but as a community health nurse, I hear almost anything you can imagine.
Hopefully that was more clear.0 -
My dad is in the high risk category. I get my flu shot every year in the hopes I keep him protected.0
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It's not that uncommon a reaction to most vaccinations, actually. It's also not a big deal other than being very tender, unless it lasts for more than a couple of days or so or is much bigger. If it does/is, it needs medical attention.
For me, the lump lasts 2 days, and the soreness lasts about a week. It's sore enough that I can't raise it above shoulder height without lifting it with my other hand. Really annoying.0 -
Do you realize that when you get the flu, and your super amazing immune system fights it off easily (so far) that you are still quite contagious and are spreading it to others who may not have the ability to fight off such an illness with ease, or may fall into the category of people who are not able to get a flu shot themselves? The very young, very old, and immuno comprimised people out there...they're the ones at risk.. .
Great point. I don't get the flu vaccine for myself. I do it for others in my community. I work in a building with hundreds of other people. The flu is an inconvenience for me, but it could be a big deal for others.
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Oh, my bad. I'm not writing well tonight. We are in agreement. I'm saying that while severe allergies to vaccines are exceedingly rare, they are possible. If a parent told me their kid had experienced such a reaction previously, they should NOT be having more vaccines without guidance from their pediatrician. I know this seems like common sense, but as a community health nurse, I hear almost anything you can imagine.
Hopefully that was more clear.
My bad too. I didn't quote the person I was replying you and your comment slipped in between us before I hit enter.
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I all very pro vaccine, however the flu vaccine is not one I consider 100% beneficial. The reason being, the flu vaccine is basically a WHO prediction of which strains are going to be most prevalent during flu season. Therefore, if a different strain breaks out that was not in the vaccine, it was pointless to get. That is why some years there is a higher outbreak than usual, and why some people get the flu even though they had the vaccine.
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