Aspartame "sensitives" study published

jgnatca · April 2015

Logic 101, the person making the claim has the burden to prove it; it is not the job of the skeptic to prove them wrong. So all anecdotal experiences can be taken with a dose of salt.

Yup, skeptics are a "type". A strong society needs a healthy dose of skeptic types.

As an aside, years ago I worked in the pesticide chemicals branch of a government department. The complaints file was always an interesting read. Memorable was the complaint letter from a woman wondering if the mosquito spraying of her local pond caused her perm to fall out. Weep for the civil servants tasked to respond to these sorts of concerns.

chivalryder · April 2015

EvanKeel wrote: »

beemerphile1 wrote: »

I am certainly not qualified to comment on the study linked above but have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame and I also know my personal experience. I am absolutely convinced that aspartame is toxic to the human body and at best is a diversion from proven weight loss techniques.

While I'm all for sharing, there are a few things to keep in mind. I think most everything is toxic. No really. That's the point of toxicity; dosage. Second, let's not overstate the overall value in knowing someone else's personal experiences with a substance.

I'm led to believe that there are lots of people who don't have a problem drinking a glass of milk. It would not be pleasant if I did. I would not suggest that other people avoid milk.

Yup. Even water can be toxic if drank too much at once.

glevinso · April 2015

beemerphile1 wrote: »

stevencloser wrote: »

beemerphile1 wrote: »

My personal experience from about five years ago;

Before I ever heard of MFP I switched to diet sodas in an attempt to lose weight. I drank two to three diet 12 ounce sodas daily. Normally I carried two in my lunch and had them at work in the early afternoon.

I began to experience slurring of my speech during the day after consuming the diet soda. The condition became worse and occurred more often over time.

I read that aspartame could cause headaches and slurring of speech so I cut out diet sodas completely. Within 24 hours the slurred speech stopped and has never occurred again.

I am certainly not qualified to comment on the study linked above but have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame and I also know my personal experience. I am absolutely convinced that aspartame is toxic to the human body and at best is a diversion from proven weight loss techniques.

Do you mind linking those studies you've seen?

Not worth my time, you can easily find them yourself.

I have nothing to prove but was only sharing my personal experience. If someone tolerates aspartame, then drink away, it won't hurt my feelings.

Burden of proof is on you, since you make the claim.

(Hint, those studies either don't exist or they have been debunked)

jmule24 · April 2015

dieselbyte wrote: »

beemerphile1 wrote: »

My personal experience from about five years ago;

Before I ever heard of MFP I switched to diet sodas in an attempt to lose weight. I drank two to three diet 12 ounce sodas daily. Normally I carried two in my lunch and had them at work in the early afternoon.

I began to experience slurring of my speech during the day after consuming the diet soda. The condition became worse and occurred more often over time.

I read that aspartame could cause headaches and slurring of speech so I cut out diet sodas completely. Within 24 hours the slurred speech stopped and has never occurred again.

I am certainly not qualified to comment on the study linked above but have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame and I also know my personal experience. I am absolutely convinced that aspartame is toxic to the human body and at best is a diversion from proven weight loss techniques.

I too experience slurred speech after consuming diet soda... not sure if its the rum or diet coke that is the problem though!

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ NOW THAT IS FUNNY!!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

slideaway1 · April 2015

Is aspartame considered a carcinogenic? Has this been proved or disproved as a myth yet? (genuine question).

glevinso · April 2015

slideaway1 wrote: »

Is aspartame considered a carcinogenic? Has this been proved or disproved as a myth yet? (genuine question).

It is just a couple of amino acids that have been cleverly put together. The same exact ones you would get in massively higher quantities in a single chicken breast.

wkwebby · April 2015

One glaring error on the publication (or the abridged synopsis) would be that HDL-C could not be as high as the Triglycerides. That would take a miracle if the whole patient population had HDL levels as high as they stated. The mmol/L converted to mg/dL (more commonly seen in US) would mean both study groups had "good" cholesterol in the triple digits...[scratching my head], I think not.

However, this is just the abstract and a synopsis, the actual data could be correct. I'm somewhat skeptical though.

EvanKeel · April 2015

slideaway1 wrote: »

Is aspartame considered a carcinogenic? Has this been proved or disproved as a myth yet? (genuine question).

http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1308408/why-aspartame-isnt-scary

beemerphile1 · April 2015

glevinso wrote: »

Burden of proof is on you, since you make the claim.

(Hint, those studies either don't exist or they have been debunked)

_John_ · April 2015

I don't laugh at a line in a published researched paper often...but my imaginative mind just LOLed...

One man was excluded because of a self-limiting gastro-intestinal upset during one session (revealed when unblinded to be after control).

glevinso · April 2015

beemerphile1 wrote: »

glevinso wrote: »

Burden of proof is on you, since you make the claim.

(Hint, those studies either don't exist or they have been debunked)

What exactly do you think I have to prove, maybe you should reread my post?

I said, "My personal experience from about five years ago"
Do you think I need to prove my personal experience?

Anecdotes are just that. And there are too many confounding variables to use anyone's n=1 experience as evidence

I don't have time to dig through all this. I suspect you just dumped a search on me without reading these. I will click a few and see what they have to say.

I said, "have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame"
In fact the study first linked qualifies although results were that the hazards are unsubstantiated.

Some reading for your enjoyment;

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v227/n5258/pdf/227609b0.pdf

I cant get to this through the paywall, but you said this one is unsubstantiated, so I can dismiss it without reading it. Why did you even link it?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6204522

This one SPECIFICALLY says the very thing you are arguing against:

However, they should not in any way be interpreted as demonstrating that aspartame significantly affects the human brain.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6152304

This is about excitotoxins, which is not what you are trying to argue against.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8939194

This is a correlation/causation study and shows nothing

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCR-408BJC1-4&_user=10&_coverDate=05/19/2000&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view
=c&_searchStrId=1456058577&
_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=395a2fc9d4ef0ffceeea475146341607
&searchtype=a

OK - so massive doses damage mice. What does that have to do with non-massive doses for humans?

http://www.nature.com/mp/journal/v7/n4/full/4000976a.html

This one says it is bad for those with phenylketonuria. I think that is well established.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16129618

This one contradicts you again:

It is concluded that low concentrations of ASP metabolites had no effect on the membrane enzyme activity, whereas high or toxic concentrations partially or remarkably decreased the membrane AChE activity, respectively. Additionally, neurological symptoms, including learning and memory processes, may be related to the high or toxic concentrations of the sweetener metabolites.

[/quote]

I have had enough digging through these. In fact I have done more than enough considering your burden of proof. If there is some damning evidence in the later studies, you will have to show me. The first bunch I clicked through didn't sway me.

neanderthin · April 2015

The first link I opened mentioned disordered odor associated learning with a dose equivalent to 27 cans of diet pop, oh and that was on guinea pigs 15 days old.....

EvanKeel · April 2015

beemerphile1 wrote: »

glevinso wrote: »

Burden of proof is on you, since you make the claim.

(Hint, those studies either don't exist or they have been debunked)

What exactly do you think I have to prove, maybe you should reread my post?

I said, "My personal experience from about five years ago"
Do you think I need to prove my personal experience?

I said, "I am certainly not qualified to comment on the study linked above"
I am not so I didn't.

I said, "have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame"
In fact the study first linked qualifies although results were that the hazards are unsubstantiated.

Some reading for your enjoyment;

(citation removed for space)

No doubt I butchered some of the addresses while copying and I am not going to the bother with testing each, but whether one agrees with the findings or not there is substantial evidence that aspartame is harmful.

Now that I have wasted my lunch break.

Umm... did you read those?

Just going to put this here:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-google-university-effect/

HardcoreP0rk · April 2015

slideaway1 wrote: »

Is aspartame considered a carcinogenic? Has this been proved or disproved as a myth yet? (genuine question).

According to the IARC...

description of categories
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Classification/index.php

alphabetically sorted list of agents that have been evaluated
http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Classification/ClassificationsAlphaOrder.pdf

Caffeine is a 3
Aspartame is not on the list

But, there's this https://ntp.niehs.nih.gov/ntp/htdocs/gmm_rpts/gmm1.pdf that was cited in the RTECS and concludes that there was no evidence of carcinogenic activity in mice. It was a 9 month feed study.

And there's this response to some of the work in this area, upon review: http://www.cspinet.org/new/pdf/aspartame-efsa-final-comments-21913.pdf

"Using IARC and EPA criteria, these results –
three studies, two species, both genders, and multiple sites ‐‐ show unequivocal evidence
aspartame is carcinogenic in animals, and possibly or probably carcinogenic in humans. "

glevinso · April 2015

EvanKeel wrote: »

beemerphile1 wrote: »

glevinso wrote: »

Burden of proof is on you, since you make the claim.

(Hint, those studies either don't exist or they have been debunked)

What exactly do you think I have to prove, maybe you should reread my post?

I said, "My personal experience from about five years ago"
Do you think I need to prove my personal experience?

I said, "I am certainly not qualified to comment on the study linked above"
I am not so I didn't.

I said, "have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame"
In fact the study first linked qualifies although results were that the hazards are unsubstantiated.

Some reading for your enjoyment;

(citation removed for space)

No doubt I butchered some of the addresses while copying and I am not going to the bother with testing each, but whether one agrees with the findings or not there is substantial evidence that aspartame is harmful.

Now that I have wasted my lunch break.

Umm... did you read those?

Just going to put this here:

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/the-google-university-effect/

Evidently not as the first 6 or 7 of them directly contradict his argument, and I didn't bother reading any of the others.

chivalryder · April 2015

beemerphile1 wrote: »

glevinso wrote: »

Burden of proof is on you, since you make the claim.

(Hint, those studies either don't exist or they have been debunked)

What exactly do you think I have to prove, maybe you should reread my post?

I said, "My personal experience from about five years ago"
Do you think I need to prove my personal experience?

I said, "I am certainly not qualified to comment on the study linked above"
I am not so I didn't.

I said, "have seen many studies that document the hazards of aspartame"
In fact the study first linked qualifies although results were that the hazards are unsubstantiated.

Some reading for your enjoyment;

...

No doubt I butchered some of the addresses while copying and I am not going to the bother with testing each, but whether one agrees with the findings or not there is substantial evidence that aspartame is harmful.

Now that I have wasted my lunch break.

Holy crap, you know how to use Google search!

That's incredibly rare for the MFP forum users. I give you credit for that!

glevinso · April 2015

*typing this post while drinking an aspartame-sweetened beverage

MireyGal76 · April 2015

study or not, sensitive or not... I just cannot stand the taste of aspartame - in drinks, in food. It gives me a horrible aftertaste that lasts for hours. yuck.

TR0berts · April 2015

Well, I suppose one could - if they were so inclined - streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch and conclude that, if you were a rodent and were directly injected with a butt-ton of aspartame, that it would be considered harmful.

And for people with certain medical conditions, it can be harmful.

So I guess he's not completely wrong.

chivalryder · April 2015

TR0berts wrote: »

Well, I suppose one could - if they were so inclined - streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch and conclude that, if you were a rodent and were directly injected with a butt-ton of aspartame, that it would be considered harmful.

And for people with certain medical conditions, it can be harmful.

So I guess he's not completely wrong.

I believe we should have a medical experiment where we inject an IV full of aspartame and hook it up to a patient and observe the results.

If the patient shows any negative symptoms, we shall conclude that all aspartame in any dosage should be banned because it is harmful.

Aspartame "sensitives" study published

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