Do you view your old eating habits as a personal failing?
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TheVirgoddess wrote: »I've never eaten a whole pan of brownies, or a whole bag of chips or whatever, so it's hard for me to answer. I was never an emotional or binge eater. I just drank lots of soda (>1000 calories worth a day).
But no, I don't see my past behavior as a failure. It was just a different set of choices than I make now.
I think that's the real issue. I wasn't an emotional eater. I've seen the research demonstrating how an emotional eater self-soothes with food, so on a science level, I understand how it works. It's the equivalent of someone with OCD who has to turn the doorknob 3 times. However, it's not my baggage, and I don't tie emotions to food, or to the act of denying a food, or to the act of indulging in one. By extension, i don't perceive emotions in other people's food choices, unless they explicitly bring it up.
At best, the way I was eating the past few years is a math failure, not a personal one. I quit weighing and counting in favor of the screw it, close enough method. If I'd received some sort of brain chemistry reward each time I poured cream into coffee without measuring, or grabbed a second helping of something without weighing it first, maybe I'd see it differently.0 -
This is a really interesting question that I've never really thought of.
I've struggled with a healthy eating pattern for most of my life. Some of that was fixed with education. A lot of that was fixed with therapy and thyroid medication. But I don't really see that so much as a personal failing. It is more like a huge freaking pot hole in the road that busted your tire. Although sometimes it's not entirely you're fault- it still needed fixing and it's got to be you to fix it.
However, my most recent gain of the past 3 years- that was pure laziness. Not a "personal failing", but still something that really needed correcting. I was eating way more calories and much larger portions than my body needs and I knew it. It wasn't healthy, I wasn't 100% normal intestinal-wise, and I knew something was up. But after 2 years of being sick with gallstones, after it was removed I figured "it's not worse, it's a bit better. So I'm okay." LAZY.
I don't know if others have experienced the same difficulty I have with elimination diets to try and figure out the one thing (or more) that is causing issues. It's seriously been four months of this elimination diet hell and I'm still working on it. I have to prepare all my own sauces- from broths to ketchup. I have to cook everything myself and if I forget my lunch, I have to pay a heck of a lot more to not get sick. 5 months ago I figured that is what I would be up against, because that is everything I needed to do for gallstones. I thought: "why bother, it's too hard. This is good enough. At least I'm not hungry anymore."
So yeah I don't think of my past actions as a weakness, shameful, failing, etc., but lets not be coy I was being freaking lazy. "Nothing planned for dinner? Call pizza place." I can't do that anymore, I can't be flippant about what I eat. Even the portion sizes- it was just easier to cut a recipe into two portions and serve the same amount for my husband and I. He's 5 inches taller than me and doesn't have hypothryoidism- I do NOT need to eat as much as he does!! Adding it all together, it may be trickier, but it is so worth it. I have energy. I don't get the burning in my joints, the eczema, the dermatitis, the bloating, nausea, cramping, ect. they're all gone. Even my asthma is better. The me from 5 months ago didn't think any of that was even remotely possible and thought it was easier not to try. In short, I was just being lazy and yeah not only did I desperately need the change, I'm so glad I did.0 -
I don't view it as a personal failing, it's really an education failing. And it's not just health and nutrition where education fails us. Our education system does not teach how to cook, how to do taxes, how to take out a loan, to invest, etc. Or at least it didn't where I grew up. A small percentage of states have requirements on physical education on the books. And have you seen the meals they serve kids in school?? Basically our education system sets us up for failure in a lot of ways, or doesn't properly prepare us for "real life". They don't teach us the basics that are necessary to function in our society. Nutrition is something that you have to learn on your own, or from your parents. But with 40% of the nation being overweight you think they would get the point and start incorporating it into our public education system. After all, good eating habits early on will carry forward in life. And as the saying goes, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. And then when we do have people trying to teach us about nutrition on a large scale, we get Dr. Oz smh...0
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I don't see them as a failing as such no. What I know now is that overate a little but even consistent daily 50cal exces over a long time does result in weight gain. But I do know that on the occasional binge (even christmas) that I felt so horrible and bad afterward (stuffed to the gills) and that I did not like that feeling. I needed to learn listen to my body instead of my eyes. I love good, fresh food and still do.0
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I don't I feel a sense of failure. Back then it was just a different concept of "normal" -- larger portion sizes and lack of a balanced diet -- back then I was able to get away with it. Unfortunately that would go on to be bad for my health. I wrote checks in my 20s (lots of booze and carbs) that my body decided to "cash" in my 30s.
For me it isn't even about a number on a scale anymore. My overall well being and health is so much better on so many levels I just have no desire to go back to where I was before.
As for the last questions, I'd say the two go hand in hand.0 -
It's interesting to me how many people here automatically associate the words "personally failure" with some sense of shame.
It's also really telling.
One of the most key points in my personal growth was acknowledging that it's okay to be wrong sometimes, there is no shame in it.
Having made a fail when it came to eating outsized portions just means that we were doing it wrong. No shame. Just something to learn from and change.
People are afraid of being wrong too much and hide from it with shame. It's interesting to me.0 -
I changed my eating habits so long ago, I can't even remember what my old ones were. Hahaha0
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Brownies = win win...
The whole pan of brownies = never been an issue. I still eat brownies. I still eat all the goodies I like and yes the portion sizes suck.
I did not fail anything. I was uneducated and stupid and stupid decisions as it related to my health. My empowerment came through willing to analyze my habits., etc... and I just found a better (or right way) to do it!
I know now why the original thread may been closed down..0 -
herrspoons wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »It's interesting to me how many people here automatically associate the words "personally failure" with some sense of shame.
It's also really telling.
One of the most key points in my personal growth was acknowledging that it's okay to be wrong sometimes, there is no shame in it.
Having made a fail when it came to eating outsized portions just means that we were doing it wrong. No shame. Just something to learn from and change.
People are afraid of being wrong too much and hide from it with shame. It's interesting to me.
Exactly. It's actually very empowering when you realise that because you were responsible for your failings you are also completely in charge of turning those into successes.
+1000
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Brownies = win win...
The whole pan of brownies = never been an issue. I still eat brownies. I still eat all the goodies I like and yes the portion sizes suck.
I did not fail anything. I was uneducated and stupid and stupid decisions as it related to my health. My empowerment came through willing to analyze my habits., etc... and I just found a better (or right way) to do it!
I know now why the original thread may been closed down..
There's nothing in this thread like what was going on in the other thread.
Try again.
Let me ask you, were you always overweight?
Also, if you found a "right" way to do things now, that means you were... wrong... before, correct?
When one repeatedly does something wrong, it's a failure. It's okay to fail. Failure is often how we learn. Remember learning to ride a bike? It's not a moral failure or a character flaw, it's just... being wrong.
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For me, I'd consider eating all the brownies (just to use brownies as an example) once in a great while to be fine. Eating all the brownies all the time would be a self-control issue. Personal failing? I'm not sure I'd call it that. But I would bet if I wanted to eat all the brownies all the time, there'd be a lot of other heavy poop going on in my life. Eating to excess would be a symptom of greater problems, not the problem itself.
Prior to coming back on MFP in January, I had a year of absolute hell. Death in the family, depression, major money problems, injuries, a leaking roof, etc. Coming out of that having gained about 15 pounds... I don't think that's a failure. Big deal. I self medicated with chocolate during hard times. There's worse ways to cope.
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »The previous thread where this discussion was taking place was closed but I thought that this was a really interesting point that @mamapeach910 brings up. I think some of the disconnect is that not everyone views their behavior as a personal failing in need of correction.
My thought process is of course I ate the whole pan of brownies; they're delicious and a pan of brownies is better than one. That's a perfectly normal thought to have, IMO. But now that I've decided I want to lose weight I can't eat the whole pan of brownies -- that's the problem, not me.
It doesn't mean I have to suddenly think eating a pan of brownies is wrong, feel guilt, shame and spend years trying to brainwash myself into thinking one brownie is just as good as a pan of brownies... which would take a long freakin' time and a lot of self-recrimination because I don't think there's anything wrong with eating a pan of brownies. I just go with the flow and work with the way I am and come to a compromise I'm happy with -- like only having brownies once or twice a year so I can enjoy as many as I want and still lose or maintain my weight. I don't want or need to be reprogrammed.
What about you? Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
This is a really interesting question. I'm going to try to answer before reading through it and then probably modify as others spark thoughts.
My initial reaction is no, I don't. I don't see being fat as something to feel guilt or shame about--I think it's generally someone's personal business unless they are forcing someone else to care for them and refuse to take any steps to try and improve the situation, but simply not being as healthy as you could potentially be seems to me to be human and something we shouldn't make a moral issue. Also, I'm bothered by the way that reactions to fat seem to be different than other non-healthy behaviors so that I'm pretty sure most of the moralizing (including when directed at ourselves) has something else behind it. I guess I have fat acceptance leanings in this way, although I will also say that I'm happier when not fat and would encourage anyone who wants to lose the weight!
To a significant extent my eating was never over the top like trays of brownies or even whole pints of ice cream. I'm only 5'3, and for a time was quite sedentary, and have a lifestyle that involves lots of restaurant meals (not fast food, pretty nice restaurants where you can fool yourself into thinking the food isn't that different from homemade except for the skill and ingredients involved, heh), so it was easy to pack on pounds without eating extreme amounts.
But of course I knew I was being overly indulgent and as I got fatter I started doing more of that with the excuse that I was fat anyway, so might as well enjoy myself and eat whatever I wanted, it wouldn't make much difference.
I also emotionally ate and still had a tendency that way (and have a major tendency toward maladjusted dealing with feelings that was masked before by drinking patterns that I do feel were a failing). So while I DON'T feel guilt or shame about my eating, I also think it was related to something in me that isn't entirely healthy and that I need to work on (and would probably incorporate a spiritual element into that also, that I don't feel totally comfortable talking about here).
Anyway, ultimately I do think occasional indulgent behavior (including toward food) is normal and human and not something to feel bad about. If I felt out of control with food, however, including having a freak out if someone else offered me something that was tempting, I'd think there was something IN ME that needed to be fixed, though, and that blaming the other person or the food would be wrong.0 -
My old eating habits is not a personal fail...0
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Oh, since that was long there's one other little bit that I want to pick up on, Alabaster, where I think your take on this is actually basically healthy. You say that it's easier for you to just not eat the brownies other than on rare occasion, because for you eating a moderate amount isn't pleasurable. I think that's a sensible way to think of it, although for me eating a smaller amount of, say, ice cream more often is simply more pleasurable than having a huge blow out on rare occasion (at present I never really want a blow out).
What I see a lot, however (and sense the possibility for in myself) is using "that food is BAD" as a way to try and make yourself not want it anymore. There are lots of posts here, and I hear it offline, where people go on about how disgusting they now find the foods they used to be tempted by. And then they fall into temptation and eat them and react, quite naturally, with shame and also disgust at themselves for wanting the disgusting thing. This is what I think plays into a cycle of disordered eating and self hate and one reason I dislike the term "clean eating" so much, even though I think a focus on nutrition or "healthy eating" or "whole foods" or whatever can be quite helpful to many of us.
(It also, to me, really mimics some messed up ideas about sex that some of us from more conservative backgrounds may be familiar with, although I got mocked last time I made that comparison.)
If you can say "oh, I just do better rarely eating whatever" I think that's different (and is in fact something I do with certain things). It's pretty similar to me saying I do better rarely eating outside planned meals.0 -
It's hard to fail at something if you had no intention to succeed from the beginning. I ate what I liked and I was a very stressed girl so I'm kinda easy on myself.0
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No, it wasn't a personal failing. I've done a lot of reflecting on where my old eating habits came from, and I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the coping mechanisms I was using. It was a strategy I used to look after my emotional well-being, but it had other effects that weren't very positive for me (weight gain, poor health...). I've adopted other habits now. I still use eating as a coping mechanism, but I'm more aware of it and put other strategies in place to keep it in check.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »It's interesting to me how many people here automatically associate the words "personally failure" with some sense of shame.
Yes, this is an excellent point.
For me, weight gain was tied up in laziness--laziness about physical activity, laziness about cooking on occasion and shopping more often, and poor organization. Thinking logically about those things and planning better, like I would or should about other failings (like putting my taxes off 'til the last minute, heh) is part of fixing them and improving myself. Same to the extent it was related to a poor coping mechanism, as someone else mentioned. But that's not the same as feeling shame. I think shame often prevents someone from taking steps to fix a problem--you fall into this pattern of "I'm a terrible person, I just will always be like this, I can't do better, I don't deserve to be better" or some such that is kind of the attitude that I think the "tough love" or "frank talk" posts on MFP are intended to kick people out of.
Part of being able to improve yourself is acknowledging that we are and will be imperfect and that's okay. Overeating when I was tired and had no will power wasn't ideal and is something I'll work in the future to avoid, but it's not something I should feel shame about or even beat myself up about--that's not a sensible or productive reaction.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Do you view your old eating habits as a personal failing?
What about you? Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
Do I view my old eating habits as a personal failing?
Nope. Not at all. Not even remotely. In fact, I'm actually quite impressed with my old eating habits.
When I became somewhat less active for various reasons 4 years ago, it took me 4 years to gain 15 kg. That's a pretty slow gain. Obviously my dietary adjustments to compensate for the lack of activity were close, but not quite accurate.
Now I'm fixing the problem with further minor adjustments.
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my exact thoughts as well*Swiftlet66 wrote: »It's hard to fail at something if you had no intention to succeed from the beginning. I ate what I liked and I was a very stressed girl so I'm kinda easy on myself.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »It's interesting to me how many people here automatically associate the words "personally failure" with some sense of shame.
Yes, this is an excellent point.
For me, weight gain was tied up in laziness--laziness about physical activity, laziness about cooking on occasion and shopping more often, and poor organization. Thinking logically about those things and planning better, like I would or should about other failings (like putting my taxes off 'til the last minute, heh) is part of fixing them and improving myself. Same to the extent it was related to a poor coping mechanism, as someone else mentioned. But that's not the same as feeling shame. I think shame often prevents someone from taking steps to fix a problem--you fall into this pattern of "I'm a terrible person, I just will always be like this, I can't do better, I don't deserve to be better" or some such that is kind of the attitude that I think the "tough love" or "frank talk" posts on MFP are intended to kick people out of.
Part of being able to improve yourself is acknowledging that we are and will be imperfect and that's okay. Overeating when I was tired and had no will power wasn't ideal and is something I'll work in the future to avoid, but it's not something I should feel shame about or even beat myself up about--that's not a sensible or productive reaction.
I wholeheartedly agree.
My real problem, I think, started long before my weight became an issue. Take out and restaurant meals were a rare event when I was growing up that were limited because we just didn't have the money to eat out very often. So once I was out on my own and had the money to eat however I wanted I did -- it was almost a point of pride for me that I could. I ate what I wanted and I used exercise and an active life to control my weight. And of course life threw me a curve ball and I suffered through years of depression (that I now know was exacerbated by poor nutrition) following the death of my sister. My activity dropped to almost nothing and my eating increased exponentially over those years.
Which brings me to where I am today and the things I've realized. I can not use exercise to control my weight; I need to do that with good nutrition and eating habits. And my new reality is that I managed to eat my way into problems with my appetite I never had before that I need to account for.
I accept all of these things about myself and work with them to prevent this from ever happening again -- because it was scarily easy to get where I was. But I don't view any of it as something wrong with me personally that needs fixing.
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