Do you view your old eating habits as a personal failing?
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No...my eating habits aren't a whole lot different now than they were before. I made small tweaks to my diet for nutritional reasons, but I've always been fond of cooking and have long been a food snob and prefer scratch meals with "real" ingredients.
My biggest issue with my health and weight gain was that I went from being very active to virtually sedentary. That, combined with a nasty smoking habit led to some bad blood work and gaining about 40 - 50 Lbs over the course of 8 years.
I don't see any of it as a failing...I was always very active and then when I graduated college I took a job at a CPA firm and started a family...I was really busy and climbing the ladder was more important to me than making sure I got in regular exercise. I didn't realize the toll that would take on me...so rather than a failing I look at all of this as a learning experience.0 -
No I don't view my old eating habits as a personal failure.
To be honest they are not very different to my new eating habits - I just eat less of them.
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herrspoons wrote: »Of course it's a personal failing. Nobody forced us to overeat, it was all down to us and we need to take responsibility for that, because failing to do so means... well... failing.
However, acknowledging it was our failing also means understanding not failing is entirely within our control.
I take full responsibility for my crappy choices and how they led me here. I just don't view it as a failure, because I wasn't trying to be healthy or fit or thin. I just didn't give a crap. For me, there has to be goal in mind, which you fail to reach. Semantics probably.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Brownies = win win...
The whole pan of brownies = never been an issue. I still eat brownies. I still eat all the goodies I like and yes the portion sizes suck.
I did not fail anything. I was uneducated and stupid and stupid decisions as it related to my health. My empowerment came through willing to analyze my habits., etc... and I just found a better (or right way) to do it!
I know now why the original thread may been closed down..
There's nothing in this thread like what was going on in the other thread.
Try again.
Let me ask you, were you always overweight?
Also, if you found a "right" way to do things now, that means you were... wrong... before, correct?
When one repeatedly does something wrong, it's a failure. It's okay to fail. Failure is often how we learn. Remember learning to ride a bike? It's not a moral failure or a character flaw, it's just... being wrong.
Only if your life is so controlled and static that nothing has changed from birth til death, and you were born an autonomous being with the intelligence and responsibilities of an adult. It's a very unhealthy way of thinking to believe that any time you do something wrong, even if you haven't learned about it, is a failure. Failing means not being successful or omission of expected action. You cannot expect success from someone who doesn't have the tools or knowledge to do something, nor can you require them to do something they don't know they're supposed to do. Once in a while, someone might happen to meet that criteria by chance, but it's not through any intentional effort of their own.
If you have someone who has been normal weight all their life without putting any thought into what they eat or how active they are, they aren't a "success." When they get out of school and get their first 9-5 job, still without giving any thought into what they eat or how active they are, they aren't suddenly now a "failure" because they gained 10 lbs. Were they doing it wrong? Yes. Was it a personal failing? No.
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Hmm. Well, I'm trying to get used to more appropriate serving sizes, I mean for me, if I have the choice between not having something or having a little bit of it, and I realize that those are the only two possible choices... well, I'd rather have a bit of it than none. I can now be satisfied with one square of chocolate, imagine that... I used to eat 300 or 400 calories worth in one sitting. I mean, why would I deprive myself all week so I can eat 400 calories of chocolate on Saturday when I could just eat 50 calories of it every day? It makes no sense to me.
It doesn't mean that I don't still eat more sometimes than a 'normal' person should, and yes if we visit family and they have delicious cake I might have seconds... but I just eat less other days to make up for it. And I keep the higher calorie treats like brownies or cupcakes to once a month... I know I will probably never eat 'at maintenance' because I'm always pretty much making up for being over one day or saving calories for a special event, but that's fine with me.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »Brownies = win win...
The whole pan of brownies = never been an issue. I still eat brownies. I still eat all the goodies I like and yes the portion sizes suck.
I did not fail anything. I was uneducated and stupid and stupid decisions as it related to my health. My empowerment came through willing to analyze my habits., etc... and I just found a better (or right way) to do it!
I know now why the original thread may been closed down..
There's nothing in this thread like what was going on in the other thread.
Try again.
Let me ask you, were you always overweight?
Also, if you found a "right" way to do things now, that means you were... wrong... before, correct?
When one repeatedly does something wrong, it's a failure. It's okay to fail. Failure is often how we learn. Remember learning to ride a bike? It's not a moral failure or a character flaw, it's just... being wrong.
Only if your life is so controlled and static that nothing has changed from birth til death, and you were born an autonomous being with the intelligence and responsibilities of an adult. It's a very unhealthy way of thinking to believe that any time you do something wrong, even if you haven't learned about it, is a failure. Failing means not being successful or omission of expected action. You cannot expect success from someone who doesn't have the tools or knowledge to do something, nor can you require them to do something they don't know they're supposed to do. Once in a while, someone might happen to meet that criteria by chance, but it's not through any intentional effort of their own.
If you have someone who has been normal weight all their life without putting any thought into what they eat or how active they are, they aren't a "success." When they get out of school and get their first 9-5 job, still without giving any thought into what they eat or how active they are, they aren't suddenly now a "failure" because they gained 10 lbs. Were they doing it wrong? Yes. Was it a personal failing? No.
This conversation has moved beyond the context of what I was originally talking about, though.
I was talking about ONE specific behavior in that other thread.
Eating a whole pan of brownies. Considering a whole pizza a single serving.
I think a lot of people are balking at the words "personal failure" because the sound loaded.
Whatever. If you feel more comfortable calling it a bad choice or a poor prior behavior, that's cool too.
The bottom line is, those are not the behaviors of people who naturally manage to maintain a healthy weight.
In still clinging to and accepting the desire to HAVE that whole pan of brownies as something you don't need to work on, even if you're taking steps to deal with it, you still haven't addressed the root of the problem.
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Yep. Personal failure. And shame because I *knew* what to do and chose otherwise. But failure and shame is no big deal, because the shame means I've learned something.
I still eat at volume. I always have eaten at volume. This is how I like to eat. However, my habits when I was thin was always 'lots of *different* foods' rather than 'whole pans of brownies'. Somewhere along the line it became a combination of lots servings of different foods, including whole pans of brownies, whole double-decker pizzas, etc. I'm back to my 'thin' habits of lots of different - sane portions - of food. It's much, MUCH more satisfying.
Note: volume for me does NOT mean I'm a 'big' eater. I like to have a large spread of light things with a small spread of dense things between. I eat what I consider 'large' meals but they're rarely more than 400 calories. Eating marathons are painful (and always have been, even when I'd have them all the time. That would be the failure and shame part, because really, wtf self? That wasn't even pleasant and you'll be just as hungry in 2 hours as you would be if you'd eaten 1/4 of that food...)0 -
I don't consider it a personal failing it just was what it was. Then I got educated and made some changes.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »Brownies = win win...
The whole pan of brownies = never been an issue. I still eat brownies. I still eat all the goodies I like and yes the portion sizes suck.
I did not fail anything. I was uneducated and stupid and stupid decisions as it related to my health. My empowerment came through willing to analyze my habits., etc... and I just found a better (or right way) to do it!
I know now why the original thread may been closed down..
There's nothing in this thread like what was going on in the other thread.
Try again.
Let me ask you, were you always overweight?
Also, if you found a "right" way to do things now, that means you were... wrong... before, correct?
When one repeatedly does something wrong, it's a failure. It's okay to fail. Failure is often how we learn. Remember learning to ride a bike? It's not a moral failure or a character flaw, it's just... being wrong.
Only if your life is so controlled and static that nothing has changed from birth til death, and you were born an autonomous being with the intelligence and responsibilities of an adult. It's a very unhealthy way of thinking to believe that any time you do something wrong, even if you haven't learned about it, is a failure. Failing means not being successful or omission of expected action. You cannot expect success from someone who doesn't have the tools or knowledge to do something, nor can you require them to do something they don't know they're supposed to do. Once in a while, someone might happen to meet that criteria by chance, but it's not through any intentional effort of their own.
If you have someone who has been normal weight all their life without putting any thought into what they eat or how active they are, they aren't a "success." When they get out of school and get their first 9-5 job, still without giving any thought into what they eat or how active they are, they aren't suddenly now a "failure" because they gained 10 lbs. Were they doing it wrong? Yes. Was it a personal failing? No.
This conversation has moved beyond the context of what I was originally talking about, though.
I was talking about ONE specific behavior in that other thread.
Eating a whole pan of brownies. Considering a whole pizza a single serving.
I think a lot of people are balking at the words "personal failure" because the sound loaded.
Whatever. If you feel more comfortable calling it a bad choice or a poor prior behavior, that's cool too.
The bottom line is, those are not the behaviors of people who naturally manage to maintain a healthy weight.
In still clinging to and accepting the desire to HAVE that whole pan of brownies as something you don't need to work on, even if you're taking steps to deal with it, you still haven't addressed the root of the problem.
The root of the problem is I was born this way. As a child I ate my Easter basket full of candy in a matter of days. My sister on the other hand eventually ended up throwing hers away. People are different and I think trying to learn to eat like a "normal person" that I hear so often is more a form of self hatred than something to strive for. I'd rather accept me for who and what I am and work with that.
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Yes a personal failure. I also view the excuses I made for giving myself license to continue on in my behavior as a personal failure. The whole overeating then make excuses about it routine was really exhausting and created shame rather than escaped it.
Taking responsibility for overeating, and the deeper reason for it being selfish gluttony and nothing more complex than that, has been liberating, took a big load off, and put me back in control.0 -
I also don't beat myself up over it. If anything, the many excuses I would tell myself would really depress me. That I indulged in gluttony consistently enough to pack on weight is a failing, but it doesn't depress me much at all like the many stories and excuses I dreamed up would.0
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I did not read all of the previous replies, so my apologies if that becomes obvious from my post..
Food addiction is the same as any other addiction. It's like being an alcoholic.
It's not as easy as knowing the right thing to do and then doing it. Anyone who has ever had any kind of addiction knows that it isn't as simple as "not eating the brownie" or "not drinking the beer."
Food addiction is even more difficult to break because you can't quit food "cold turkey." Imagine if you asked a heroin addict to keep a house full of heroin and to take small, moderate doses 3 times a day?
Regardless of if you're addicted to food, sex, beer, cigarettes... there is a lot going on in the brain that makes it a lot more complicated.
I once saw a video (I wish I could find it) where they showed a test done with people who were food addicts and people who were not food addicts. They took a look at their brains while they were hungry, and offered them both a cheeseburger.
The non-food addict's brain showed normal desire to eat. Once they ate, there was a large dopamine release (reward/pleasure) in the brain.
The food addict's brain lit up all over the place with huge desire for the cheeseburger, but when he ate it, he barely got any dopamine. He would need to eat two or three cheeseburgers to get the same pleasure reward that the non-addict gets from one cheeseburger.
Just like when you build up a tolerance for beer and have to drink more and more to get drunk.
So, the non-addict had a moderate desire, and a huge reward. The addict had a huge desire, and a small reward.
I am new here, so I apologize if videos are not allowed, but I love this Ted Talk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX2btaDOBK8
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herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Yes. Point made.0 -
Interesting thread or at least I was thinking about it on the way to doing my shopping. Its actually different from what I thought it was.
The first and most interesting point for me was the idea of it being a personal failing. What is a personal failing and was it to be taken seriously?
Its a failing in the sense of it wasnt ideal and I could have done better, but maybe i could have got better grades, won more cases, done better at sports etc, so I dont really see the point of doing too much navel gazing or worrying about personal failings in life. I do recall i was 100% responsible for what I ate, enjoyed it and although the weight gain wasnt ideal I know part of it was not just laziness, but a series of really crap events with people passing away and other things, that meant I didnt care. Part of me resorted to food. Is that a failing? Not ideal but things happen.
Several years later I came to a realisation that it was a bit stupid and out of hand and decided to diet for the first time ever. Not because i felt I had failed, but I accepted the situation was far from ideal and if I carried on then I was at seriously increased risk of all the things that come with being overweight. I did my research, joined a gym, planned and prepared myself mentally and I became my biggest project. Its gone pretty well, not only losing weight but improving my fitness levels from a couch potato level to being at my fittest level since my 20's maybe even fitter. The way I have done it, in virtually every aspect has been a success for me so far because ive commited and gone for it wholeheartedly. If I look back i dont see it as a failure, just not ideal and I fully understand why things happened and am far from beating myself up about it. Not ideal as id liked never to have been that way, but thats life. Im slightly annoyed I didnt pay weight and health more attention because I would have been smarter and execised more at least. The reults ive found empowering.
The 2nd aspect appears to be what the OP's main topic is.Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with?
I think about food slightly differently now because I have more knowledge of how it works and wish to keep the progress i have made. I know more about exercise, calories, nutrition and general health issues. Im not sure of the differences in the quoted question. Im not sure the 2 options in the question arent in fact one and the same and they are about lifestyle change. I dont need much persuaiding at all beyond the logic behind the knowledge of weight gain or about whats good for my health and is not.
Id like to think I have made slight changes to the way I deal with food and think I have in a sustainable way. Ive just come back from shopping:
I looked at labels for nutrition.
I bought strawberries, apples, broccoli, cauliflower, seeds, eggs , fish and some wholemeal bread. I also bought some chips and chocolate. (it was a top up)
I didnt buy lots of processed food or a cheesecake, because at the moment it doesnt fit in my plan, I cook more from scarcg and im happy with strawberries greek yogurt seeds and fruit. I can have cheesecake if I want, but dont really feel the need, but its always an option.
My plan is to do what works for me which means sustainable, liveable ,efficient and effective as possible. Not so much my attitude has changed, but my focus has. Im more relaxed these days and just deal with it as is.
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Dont change it into a food addiction thread weve had loads of those. Ideas about it being a failing was a different angle. The people who lose weight are the ones who take responsibility for their own actions.0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »It's interesting to me how many people here automatically associate the words "personally failure" with some sense of shame.
It's also really telling.
One of the most key points in my personal growth was acknowledging that it's okay to be wrong sometimes, there is no shame in it.
Having made a fail when it came to eating outsized portions just means that we were doing it wrong. No shame. Just something to learn from and change.
People are afraid of being wrong too much and hide from it with shame. It's interesting to me.
I agree with this. For me though I do not see it as a failing. I did what I wanted to get what I wanted, and now I am doing something different because I want different things. I feel the same way about the 15 years I spent smoking. I got what I wanted out of it, and I quit when I started wanting things that were incompatible with continuing to smoke.0 -
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
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herrspoons wrote: »Dont change it into a food addiction thread weve had loads of those. Ideas about it being a failing was a different angle. The people who lose weight are the ones who take responsibility for their own actions.
Quite so. However the argument of organisations like OA is that one is powerless over food, hence it's not one's failing.
that sort of verbage makes me wary of OA. I am not powerless against food. I am have some bad habits/coping mechanisms that involve food, but I am unwilling to be defeated by a brownie.0 -
I think @mamapeach910's use of "personal failing" as defined in the OP could be changed to "habit" and this is where some of the confusion is coming in.
But I also find the desire to label nothing we do as failure to be interesting. I am terrified of failure, so much so that I'd rather not try than fail. This is a problem that I'm trying to work on, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one who is afraid of it.
My eating habits absolutely had to be corrected. I went from being a very active 14-15 year old to a less active 16-17 year old due to my priorities shifting, to a hypothyroid 18-19 year old. What I was doing at 14 clearly needed to change for my 19 year old self as evidenced by the 50lbs I had gained.
I wouldn't define it as a failure, though, because I don't want to feel the other emotions that goes with failure for me. But do I think it? Yup.0
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