Your questions, hypotheses, and curiosities?

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  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    PAV8888 wrote: »
    DeguelloTex wrote: »
    I was 35.89. I'm going to be a special snowflake who maintains his loss.

    We are sooo gonna kill it!

    (Mind you Canadian snowflake vs Texas snowflake.... I don't know: you may need to find a better paradigm....)

    What else is unique... a fingerprint? the rings of a tree? I'm going to be the special rings of a tree!! [not the same "ring" though :(]

  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
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    Here's a meta-analysis of the effects of glucomannan (fancy fiber) on cholesterol, weight loss, etc.

    http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/88/4/1167.short

    I've wondered if a super-high fiber diet might be as effective as bariatric surgery, essentially giving the stomach less to digest while keeping it full.

    I also wonder if we might have the glucose intolerance/weight gain relationship backwards and if the intolerance might be contributing to the weight gain, not the other way around.

    https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes

    Is chronic stress (elevated cortisol) related to the obesity epidemic? This study suggests not.

    We had a fancy thermostat once that triggered the heat or the air conditioning depending on whether the temperature exceeded a range. However, if the heat rose above the parameters, the stupid thing would run the furnace non-stop. We would have to open all the windows and doors to get below range for it to work properly. That thermostat reminded me of the complex relationship our bodies have with food and how some of us seem markedly efficient at retaining spare calories as fat. It's as if we don't have an "off" switch for some metabolic processes if we exceed a certain range (never needed an "off" switch when food was scarce). I wonder if we might create a spare "organ" (gadget) to help overweight people purge excess calories when they get beyond a certain range.
  • sofaking6
    sofaking6 Posts: 4,589 Member
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    girlviernes wrote: »
    sofaking6 wrote: »
    girlviernes wrote: »
    One of my takeaways is not to assume your primary doctor knows this stuff, if you have signs of metabolic dysfunction see an endocrinologist.

    I don't even have a primary doctor lol...one of these days maybe...

    Well at any rate, it is a good thing your blood work so far has come back looking good! :)

    Haha right? I was so nervous - my first one ever except when my ex told me he had Hep C...

  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    futuremanda wrote: »
    I wonder about the physical changes that happen when we strength train in a deficit. I know I'm not building muscle mass -- especially as I am not lifting heavy, I am doing bodyweight exercises. I do feel changes in my body (especially in leaner areas, where there's less fat over the muscle) though. These changes persist even if I stop working out for a few days (as in, now, because I'm sick). Does neural adaptation change anything in a way that I could feel? Is it all in my head -- maybe an effect of being able to better activate / more likely to properly activate muscles when I do things, or just because I want to? Wouldn't affect my actions any, but I am curious.

    I mean, clearly some change is happening because we can get much stronger even training in a deficit... It may not be optimal, but I think you can build at least some degree of muscle while in a deficit.

  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    girlviernes wrote: »
    futuremanda wrote: »
    I wonder about the physical changes that happen when we strength train in a deficit. I know I'm not building muscle mass -- especially as I am not lifting heavy, I am doing bodyweight exercises. I do feel changes in my body (especially in leaner areas, where there's less fat over the muscle) though. These changes persist even if I stop working out for a few days (as in, now, because I'm sick). Does neural adaptation change anything in a way that I could feel? Is it all in my head -- maybe an effect of being able to better activate / more likely to properly activate muscles when I do things, or just because I want to? Wouldn't affect my actions any, but I am curious.

    I mean, clearly some change is happening because we can get much stronger even training in a deficit... It may not be optimal, but I think you can build at least some degree of muscle while in a deficit.

    Trying to do a quick lit search but not finding anything illuminating. I'm very curious about this as well. If you can have newbie gains then there must be some capacity for muscle gain during a deficit. Would love more info on this :)
  • sofaking6
    sofaking6 Posts: 4,589 Member
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    girlviernes wrote: »
    futuremanda wrote: »
    I wonder about the physical changes that happen when we strength train in a deficit. I know I'm not building muscle mass -- especially as I am not lifting heavy, I am doing bodyweight exercises. I do feel changes in my body (especially in leaner areas, where there's less fat over the muscle) though. These changes persist even if I stop working out for a few days (as in, now, because I'm sick). Does neural adaptation change anything in a way that I could feel? Is it all in my head -- maybe an effect of being able to better activate / more likely to properly activate muscles when I do things, or just because I want to? Wouldn't affect my actions any, but I am curious.

    I mean, clearly some change is happening because we can get much stronger even training in a deficit... It may not be optimal, but I think you can build at least some degree of muscle while in a deficit.

    Here's the article that helped me answer that question to my own satisfaction:

    http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/how-to-get-stronger-without-getting-bigger

    I'm down half of my 30 lb goal so I'm reasonably sure I have not added any muscle, yet my strength, endurance, balance and coordination are all much improved. I also get the sense that I can 'feel' muscles where I couldn't before, but I do believe that is due to less fat covering them. But I also wouldn't be *super* shocked if someone told me I had added a bit of muscle...
  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    sofaking6 wrote: »
    girlviernes wrote: »
    futuremanda wrote: »
    I wonder about the physical changes that happen when we strength train in a deficit. I know I'm not building muscle mass -- especially as I am not lifting heavy, I am doing bodyweight exercises. I do feel changes in my body (especially in leaner areas, where there's less fat over the muscle) though. These changes persist even if I stop working out for a few days (as in, now, because I'm sick). Does neural adaptation change anything in a way that I could feel? Is it all in my head -- maybe an effect of being able to better activate / more likely to properly activate muscles when I do things, or just because I want to? Wouldn't affect my actions any, but I am curious.

    I mean, clearly some change is happening because we can get much stronger even training in a deficit... It may not be optimal, but I think you can build at least some degree of muscle while in a deficit.

    Here's the article that helped me answer that question to my own satisfaction:

    http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/how-to-get-stronger-without-getting-bigger

    I'm down half of my 30 lb goal so I'm reasonably sure I have not added any muscle, yet my strength, endurance, balance and coordination are all much improved. I also get the sense that I can 'feel' muscles where I couldn't before, but I do believe that is due to less fat covering them. But I also wouldn't be *super* shocked if someone told me I had added a bit of muscle...

    Great article, thanks!!
  • futuremanda
    futuremanda Posts: 816 Member
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    sofaking6 wrote: »
    girlviernes wrote: »
    futuremanda wrote: »
    I wonder about the physical changes that happen when we strength train in a deficit. I know I'm not building muscle mass -- especially as I am not lifting heavy, I am doing bodyweight exercises. I do feel changes in my body (especially in leaner areas, where there's less fat over the muscle) though. These changes persist even if I stop working out for a few days (as in, now, because I'm sick). Does neural adaptation change anything in a way that I could feel? Is it all in my head -- maybe an effect of being able to better activate / more likely to properly activate muscles when I do things, or just because I want to? Wouldn't affect my actions any, but I am curious.

    I mean, clearly some change is happening because we can get much stronger even training in a deficit... It may not be optimal, but I think you can build at least some degree of muscle while in a deficit.

    Here's the article that helped me answer that question to my own satisfaction:

    http://breakingmuscle.com/strength-conditioning/how-to-get-stronger-without-getting-bigger

    I'm down half of my 30 lb goal so I'm reasonably sure I have not added any muscle, yet my strength, endurance, balance and coordination are all much improved. I also get the sense that I can 'feel' muscles where I couldn't before, but I do believe that is due to less fat covering them. But I also wouldn't be *super* shocked if someone told me I had added a bit of muscle...

    Yeah, I'm referencing the sense of "feeling" muscles differently (bigger, more pronounced, or more firm, less squishy, more... solid, etc). Especially in leaner areas -- my forearms, my lower back, certain parts of my hip/upper front thigh, etc, but also in larger areas, like glutes, especially when flexing. I don't think it's being leaner. I've been much leaner before and I don't recall feeling this way (I was not working out at the time).

    So I guess what I wonder is:
    - am I building muscle mass, just not pounds of it, but maybe in key areas (like a tiny muscle in my forearm that may need the help, whereas my glutes probably have a lot more adapting they could do before they need to add mass)
    - am I imagining things because I'm feeling stronger and happier with my body and so on -- I don't remember feeling this way before, but I can't exactly go back to past versions of myself and start feeling myself up for comparison, so I know it could be perception
    - is it actually the feeling of being better able to recruit muscle, maybe coupled with a bit of imagining
    - does the muscle change in some way when you train it, that isn't about adding mass, but would change the way it feels under the skin/fat

    I mean, in a deficit, when you workout also, are there NO physical changes beyond losing fat and being able to perform better? Nothing that can be felt by hand? Again, I'm just curious, and at a loss, because when I try to Google it, I just get the explanations about not building mass in a deficit, etc, which I do understand. But I do feel different.
  • sofaking6
    sofaking6 Posts: 4,589 Member
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    Well there really might be, the part about recruiting more muscle units does indicate to me that we could improve how much the muscles contract. And maybe the way they contract as well, which could make the shape feel different.

    People here (weightlifting people) also do also talk about "noob gainz", which is where people (like me) who have like no muscle whatsoever can actually build some when we first start working out, probably just because the body leans towards some natural minimum as long as you're challenging yourself even a little bit.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
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    When I use TDEE calculators, I'm always reluctant to say that I exercise "x" amount of days per week, when I'm mostly only lifting. It makes me wonder if I should shave off a day, maybe I'd get a more accurate estimation.
  • ahoy_m8
    ahoy_m8 Posts: 3,053 Member
    edited April 2015
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    azulvioleta6 wrote: »
    girlviernes wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Some of mine:

    I have read over the years that eating a high fiber diet can slightly reduce the number of calories that your body absorbs because everything is moving through your intestine faster. I have no idea if this is true or if it has ever been tested.

    Why do people have such dramatically different experiences with which types of foods cause satiety?

    Interesting, I had never heard that about a high fiber diet. Some thing I have heard (perhaps from Michael Pollan) is that high fiber may facilitate healthy gut bacteria which may impact us in various ways.

    I like your question about satiety... hmmm... I also wonder with this to what extent placebo comes into play.

    Not a question or a hypothesis, but I would like to know a lot more about the microbiome. I'm very curious to see how an increased understanding will inform actual treatments over the next 10-20 years.

    First, thank you for this thread, girlviernes! I'm also fascinated and want to know more about bacteria. Considering the number of bacteria outnumbers the number of human cells in a human body(10:1), we know amazingly little about how bacteria functions. Research to cultivate bacteria that attack specific cancer cells makes chemotherapy seem like a using a sledgehammer to split a cracker.
  • ahoy_m8
    ahoy_m8 Posts: 3,053 Member
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    I've read the metabolic limit of how much energy body fat can provide is ~30 kcal/day/pound fat. I wonder why and how that varies with activity level.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    I've read the metabolic limit of how much energy body fat can provide is ~30 kcal/day/pound fat. I wonder why and how that varies with activity level.

    It varies with a number of factors, including the time between meals (increases with IF), and how it is distributed across your body (decreases with "lumpiness").

    It's a reasonable number to use as a guideline, but shouldn't be treated as gospel.
  • sofaking6
    sofaking6 Posts: 4,589 Member
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    ahoy_m8 wrote: »
    azulvioleta6 wrote: »
    girlviernes wrote: »
    janejellyroll wrote: »
    Some of mine:

    I have read over the years that eating a high fiber diet can slightly reduce the number of calories that your body absorbs because everything is moving through your intestine faster. I have no idea if this is true or if it has ever been tested.

    Why do people have such dramatically different experiences with which types of foods cause satiety?

    Interesting, I had never heard that about a high fiber diet. Some thing I have heard (perhaps from Michael Pollan) is that high fiber may facilitate healthy gut bacteria which may impact us in various ways.

    I like your question about satiety... hmmm... I also wonder with this to what extent placebo comes into play.

    Not a question or a hypothesis, but I would like to know a lot more about the microbiome. I'm very curious to see how an increased understanding will inform actual treatments over the next 10-20 years.

    First, thank you for this thread, girlviernes! I'm also fascinated and want to know more about bacteria. Considering the number of bacteria outnumbers the number of human cells in a human body(10:1), we know amazingly little about how bacteria functions. Research to cultivate bacteria that attack specific cancer cells makes the chemotherapy seem like a using a sledgehammer to split a cracker.

    Ooh I missed that one. I learned recently that bacteria can share genes with other bacteria just by being near them. Just like pop a little gene sequence out of your side and your neighbor sucks it in and poof! Immunity!

    Probably nothing is cooler than bacteria. Except maybe pulsars.
  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    Also in for lots of curiosity about our bacteria. I was listening to a podcast with Michael Pollan and he was saying that there was some evidence that the bacteria actually plays a role in the production of serotonin in the gut which then goes to the brain and impacts our mood!! I'm just so excited to see where this research goes over the next 10-15 years...

    Also, poop transplants. Will a poop transplant be a treatment for obesity??
  • peachyfuzzle
    peachyfuzzle Posts: 1,122 Member
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    If a woman weighs as much as a duck, is she a witch?
  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    *poop transplant being the technical term.
  • girlviernes
    girlviernes Posts: 2,402 Member
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    peachyfuzzle wrote: »
    If a woman weighs as much as a duck, is she a witch?

    Actually, it is a ratio relationship... so if you weigh as much as 5 ducks than it means you are 5 witches.
  • Liftng4Lis
    Liftng4Lis Posts: 15,150 Member
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    I wonder why this seems so much harder now that I'm old, when rationally, it all comes down to CICO.
  • sofaking6
    sofaking6 Posts: 4,589 Member
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    Liftng4Lis wrote: »
    I wonder why this seems so much harder now that I'm old, when rationally, it all comes down to CICO.

    Why can't I drink like I used to? Why do I wake up at 3am every day? Why don't I ever want to go out on weeknights? Why do I listen to public radio?

    Damn oldness.

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