Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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JessicaMcB wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »So a question I have re: recomposition! I'm 5'9", CW 139, GW 130, running six days a week (working towards about 60k a week) training for a series of races I have this next year. I have been reading Strong Curves with the intention of working on recomp in August or September but I've had a few people I know outside of MFP who lift heavy who have suggested that my fitness goals re: running will work against my ability to recomp and that I basically have to choose one or the other. Truth to this? I'm not willing to drop something I love for something I'm basically only looking into to drop BF% ykwim?
Most of the people telling you that you have to pick one or the other just don't like one or the other, and so they spread stuff like that.
Thank you, that was kind of my feeling but I also 100% recognize that I am not a fitness expert of any kind so I figured I'd ask. I couldn't see why it wouldn't work to cross-train especially since lifting doesn't burn that many calories in comparison. On to Strong Curves it is!
The bigger thing is keeping up with calories and adequate macronutrients to support your goals. To be honest, i would be impressed it you can run 6 days a week and still lift big.
I was just coming in to say something similar. Putting in significant miles during the week is going to take a toll on the quality of effort you can put into lifting. High mileage is taxing on the CNS even if you're eating adequately. You might be able to pull it off if you're lifting first and fueling well. Your lean mass gains will still likely be lower than an average recomp due to the limited ability to progressively overload when lifting. Just my two cents.
I'm not so much looking to make gains as I am trying to cut bf%. Is there a difference there? Sorry if that sounds completely stupid.
If you don't make muscle gains and you just cut body fat % then you're basically just losing weight. The goal of recomposition is to add muscle and lose fat without impacting your weight in either direction (except average fluctuations).
I was thinking of recomp as the whole process of working towards increasing lean body mass while losing fat. I want to avoid the dreaded flabby "skinny fat" and want muscles to show through as I go along. Maybe now isn't the time for me to recomp? I was thinking of maintaining for a bit, adding muscle now, seeing how I look, and then losing the last bit of weight.
But should my tactic instead be to lose weight first since it is a bit harder to lose weight when trying to build up muscle mass? I was approaching this process as gaining muscle weight while I lose fat weight realizing that at my final weight I will be more solid and have more lean body weight than I would have if I wasn't doing recomp in between losing weight.
@DebSozo Recomp is the process of working towards increasing lean mass while losing fat. The person I quoted wasn't concerned with gaining muscle, which is half of the point of doing recomp. If you want to maintain and are going to try to add muscle then you're basically doing recomposition.
I personally think that someone with body fat in the fit to average range is a great candidate for recomposition. You get a slight diet break (still have to pay attention to ensure you don't start gaining week after week) and you're fueling the workouts well. Recomposition can also be used as a strategy for making progress in one aspect of building a great physique during times that dieting is tougher (dieting during November and December sucks).0 -
JessicaMcB wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »So a question I have re: recomposition! I'm 5'9", CW 139, GW 130, running six days a week (working towards about 60k a week) training for a series of races I have this next year. I have been reading Strong Curves with the intention of working on recomp in August or September but I've had a few people I know outside of MFP who lift heavy who have suggested that my fitness goals re: running will work against my ability to recomp and that I basically have to choose one or the other. Truth to this? I'm not willing to drop something I love for something I'm basically only looking into to drop BF% ykwim?
Most of the people telling you that you have to pick one or the other just don't like one or the other, and so they spread stuff like that.
Thank you, that was kind of my feeling but I also 100% recognize that I am not a fitness expert of any kind so I figured I'd ask. I couldn't see why it wouldn't work to cross-train especially since lifting doesn't burn that many calories in comparison. On to Strong Curves it is!
The bigger thing is keeping up with calories and adequate macronutrients to support your goals. To be honest, i would be impressed it you can run 6 days a week and still lift big.
I was just coming in to say something similar. Putting in significant miles during the week is going to take a toll on the quality of effort you can put into lifting. High mileage is taxing on the CNS even if you're eating adequately. You might be able to pull it off if you're lifting first and fueling well. Your lean mass gains will still likely be lower than an average recomp due to the limited ability to progressively overload when lifting. Just my two cents.
I'm not so much looking to make gains as I am trying to cut bf%. Is there a difference there? Sorry if that sounds completely stupid.
If you don't make muscle gains and you just cut body fat % then you're basically just losing weight. The goal of recomposition is to add muscle and lose fat without impacting your weight in either direction (except average fluctuations).
I was thinking of recomp as the whole process of working towards increasing lean body mass while losing fat. I want to avoid the dreaded flabby "skinny fat" and want muscles to show through as I go along. Maybe now isn't the time for me to recomp? I was thinking of maintaining for a bit, adding muscle now, seeing how I look, and then losing the last bit of weight.
But should my tactic instead be to lose weight first since it is a bit harder to lose weight when trying to build up muscle mass? I was approaching this process as gaining muscle weight while I lose fat weight realizing that at my final weight I will be more solid and have more lean body weight than I would have if I wasn't doing recomp in between losing weight.
@DebSozo Recomp is the process of working towards increasing lean mass while losing fat. The person I quoted wasn't concerned with gaining muscle, which is half of the point of doing recomp. If you want to maintain and are going to try to add muscle then you're basically doing recomposition.
I personally think that someone with body fat in the fit to average range is a great candidate for recomposition. You get a slight diet break (still have to pay attention to ensure you don't start gaining week after week) and you're fueling the workouts well. Recomposition can also be used as a strategy for making progress in one aspect of building a great physique during times that dieting is tougher (dieting during November and December sucks).
And to add, recomping is great for those who don't have time frames to achieve a specific look or have need to be at a certain weight (e.g., competitors). Or those who have fear of bulks.4 -
JessicaMcB wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »So a question I have re: recomposition! I'm 5'9", CW 139, GW 130, running six days a week (working towards about 60k a week) training for a series of races I have this next year. I have been reading Strong Curves with the intention of working on recomp in August or September but I've had a few people I know outside of MFP who lift heavy who have suggested that my fitness goals re: running will work against my ability to recomp and that I basically have to choose one or the other. Truth to this? I'm not willing to drop something I love for something I'm basically only looking into to drop BF% ykwim?
Most of the people telling you that you have to pick one or the other just don't like one or the other, and so they spread stuff like that.
Thank you, that was kind of my feeling but I also 100% recognize that I am not a fitness expert of any kind so I figured I'd ask. I couldn't see why it wouldn't work to cross-train especially since lifting doesn't burn that many calories in comparison. On to Strong Curves it is!
The bigger thing is keeping up with calories and adequate macronutrients to support your goals. To be honest, i would be impressed it you can run 6 days a week and still lift big.
I was just coming in to say something similar. Putting in significant miles during the week is going to take a toll on the quality of effort you can put into lifting. High mileage is taxing on the CNS even if you're eating adequately. You might be able to pull it off if you're lifting first and fueling well. Your lean mass gains will still likely be lower than an average recomp due to the limited ability to progressively overload when lifting. Just my two cents.
I'm not so much looking to make gains as I am trying to cut bf%. Is there a difference there? Sorry if that sounds completely stupid.
If you don't make muscle gains and you just cut body fat % then you're basically just losing weight. The goal of recomposition is to add muscle and lose fat without impacting your weight in either direction (except average fluctuations).
I was thinking of recomp as the whole process of working towards increasing lean body mass while losing fat. I want to avoid the dreaded flabby "skinny fat" and want muscles to show through as I go along. Maybe now isn't the time for me to recomp? I was thinking of maintaining for a bit, adding muscle now, seeing how I look, and then losing the last bit of weight.
But should my tactic instead be to lose weight first since it is a bit harder to lose weight when trying to build up muscle mass? I was approaching this process as gaining muscle weight while I lose fat weight realizing that at my final weight I will be more solid and have more lean body weight than I would have if I wasn't doing recomp in between losing weight.
@DebSozo Recomp is the process of working towards increasing lean mass while losing fat. The person I quoted wasn't concerned with gaining muscle, which is half of the point of doing recomp. If you want to maintain and are going to try to add muscle then you're basically doing recomposition.
I personally think that someone with body fat in the fit to average range is a great candidate for recomposition. You get a slight diet break (still have to pay attention to ensure you don't start gaining week after week) and you're fueling the workouts well. Recomposition can also be used as a strategy for making progress in one aspect of building a great physique during times that dieting is tougher (dieting during November and December sucks).
And to add, recomping is great for those who don't have time frames to achieve a specific look or have need to be at a certain weight (e.g., competitors). Or those who have fear of bulks.
That would be me. I don't have a limited time frame to achieve a certain look per se and do fear bulks. I'm happy with average size and am trying to keep from gaining any more with hopes to lose a few if at all possible.0 -
I think I am finally ready to actually do this. While I was going to run a bulk/cut, it was just not working out for me. My weight loss was kind of stalling to get lean enough to bulk, plus running a bulk soon would be way too much work and pressure for me (the meticulous tracking, getting all my lifting sessions in, eating enough since I am breastfeeding etc.). I don't really know what to expect from recomping but since I'm not tracking my cals, what will likely happen is some days I will be in deficit, surplus and maintenance and in the end it should all work out!3
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So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?1
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So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?
I don't know the answer to this but I also find matching those body fat images hard to translate to my own body
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JessicaMcB wrote: »So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?
I don't know the answer to this but I also find matching those body fat images hard to translate to my own body
Yours has to do with lean mass. Most of the body fat pictures show women with higher muscle. You're the same height as me, but I have more muscle mass than you have total body weight.
@jerb00 For people with uneven distribution of fat (where it seems to be all in belly or all in legs) take the middle between the top half visual estimation and the bottom half visual estimation. The top half of your body won't change much, so your number will adjust as the lower half leans out.3 -
JessicaMcB wrote: »So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?
I don't know the answer to this but I also find matching those body fat images hard to translate to my own body
Yours has to do with lean mass. Most of the body fat pictures show women with higher muscle. You're the same height as me, but I have more muscle mass than you have total body weight.
Is there a site/full info graphic that does comparisons like that for BF% for highly muscled versus not so much as well? Because you're absolutely right, if I looked at you I'd think "She has such low body fat, what a rockstar." but the other woman pictured I would've clocked at 20-22% mentally because in my mind 15% is going to look like a very lean female lifter you know?
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JessicaMcB wrote: »JessicaMcB wrote: »So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?
I don't know the answer to this but I also find matching those body fat images hard to translate to my own body
Yours has to do with lean mass. Most of the body fat pictures show women with higher muscle. You're the same height as me, but I have more muscle mass than you have total body weight.
Is there a site/full info graphic that does comparisons like that for BF% for highly muscled versus not so much as well? Because you're absolutely right, if I looked at you I'd think "She has such low body fat, what a rockstar." but the other woman pictured I would've clocked at 20-22% mentally because in my mind 15% is going to look like a very lean female lifter you know?
If you can ignore the advertising in this site the graphics comparing body fat gives you a good idea of what you are looking for:
http://ketogains.com/2015/09/how-to-estimate-your-body-fat-percentage-bf/
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Thanks @DebSozo it still only had the muscled vs. unmuscled percents for 15% but such is life I guess. I'll just assume I'm 22-23% like I have been to this point0
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So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?
I am similar. Very pear shaped and carry fat all in my lower body. I use a few methods then averagre them out.
A user, haybails or something similar made a google doc that uses messurments and calipers and such to give you an idea. I found this to be best vs pictures and guess becuase we also are our own worst critics.1 -
sunflowerhippi wrote: »So, after looking at the image link for body fat images - what if you don't fit? My top half is very definitely in the lower fat category while my bottom half is in the one above. Does it make a difference?
I am similar. Very pear shaped and carry fat all in my lower body. I use a few methods then averagre them out.
A user, haybails or something similar made a google doc that uses messurments and calipers and such to give you an idea. I found this to be best vs pictures and guess becuase we also are our own worst critics.
They use models with pretty good proportions in the % fat photos also.
I would like to see the calipers guide. Amazon sells calipers for about $7 as an add on. I might order one so I can confirm what the online % bf photos show.1 -
Calipers in the hands of a trained experienced person can get to within 5% accuracy using 7-site method, if presented with a properly hydrated body, meaning average level.
In the hands of consumer buying the calipers with the common 2-3 site calc that is given in paperwork - well, if you are actually within 5%, I'd suggest go buy lottery tickets too.
Unlike measurements that can be pretty static location (minimum girth, belly button, maximum girth, ect), unless you get good, you can easily pick a spot slightly different and get very different mm readings, even when doing the 3 measurements on 1 site to get an average.
I wouldn't use it by itself - but combined with measurement method, throwing the BIA scale in there too, could at least let you see the potential range of accuracy and average, and then watch those change over time.
It's picking that good time for all measurements to minimize expected known water weight fluctuations. So daily doesn't work.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.4 -
Calipers in the hands of a trained experienced person can get to within 5% accuracy using 7-site method, if presented with a properly hydrated body, meaning average level.
In the hands of consumer buying the calipers with the common 2-3 site calc that is given in paperwork - well, if you are actually within 5%, I'd suggest go buy lottery tickets too.
Unlike measurements that can be pretty static location (minimum girth, belly button, maximum girth, ect), unless you get good, you can easily pick a spot slightly different and get very different mm readings, even when doing the 3 measurements on 1 site to get an average.
I wouldn't use it by itself - but combined with measurement method, throwing the BIA scale in there too, could at least let you see the potential range of accuracy and average, and then watch those change over time.
It's picking that good time for all measurements to minimize expected known water weight fluctuations. So daily doesn't work.
Morning after rest day eating normal sodium levels, not sore from last workout.
I use the the parillo caliper method (9-sites). I don't record an area unless I get 3 consistent readings. After each reading, I release the skin and re-pinch. And even though it might be exactly accurate, I believe it has served me well. Below is the calculation tool I use, too.
http://www.linear-software.com/online.html2 -
@DebSozo I wonder if there is a better place for postmenopausal females who are trying to recomp can post. Do you know of one? My modest victories don't seem to have a place on this thread, but I would love to find a thread that woud provide some support for people like me who cannot expect to add a lb of muscle a month while losing fat. If I add a lb of muscle a quarter while losing fat, I will consider that a win. So far I have lost 21lbs of fat and have maintained muscle mass - no significant gain in muscle mass, but no loss since I started in April.1
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@DebSozo I wonder if there is a better place for postmenopausal females who are trying to recomp can post. Do you know of one? My modest victories don't seem to have a place on this thread, but I would love to find a thread that woud provide some support for people like me who cannot expect to add a lb of muscle a month while losing fat. If I add a lb of muscle a quarter while losing fat, I will consider that a win. So far I have lost 21lbs of fat and have maintained muscle mass - no significant gain in muscle mass, but no loss since I started in April.
I don't mind this thread. It has been helpful. I haven't tried recomp but figure I'll give it a try. It can only help.0 -
Karen, it sounds like you are doing well.0
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@DebSozo I wonder if there is a better place for postmenopausal females who are trying to recomp can post. Do you know of one? My modest victories don't seem to have a place on this thread, but I would love to find a thread that woud provide some support for people like me who cannot expect to add a lb of muscle a month while losing fat. If I add a lb of muscle a quarter while losing fat, I will consider that a win. So far I have lost 21lbs of fat and have maintained muscle mass - no significant gain in muscle mass, but no loss since I started in April.
If you are losing fat and maintaining LBM, you are just "losing weight" and doing it the right way. There are plenty of threads for that I would think
based on what forum we are on.
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@DebSozo Thanks! It sounds as if you have already done well and are ready for the next phase of your venture! Two weeks ago I started one of Pavel's beginner kettlebell routines in addition to the 5 weekly Jazzercise classes I've been doing for years. You may be familiar already, but Jazzercise is underestimated by many, and includes cardio and resistance training. It is as challenging as you want to make it. As to the kettlebells, I will increase the kettlebell weight every 5 weeks, and after 10-15 weeks I may start doing some Stronglifts routines. I plan on going slow to focus on form and avoiding injury. If anyone does know of a more appropriate thread for someone like me to get some help & encouragement, I am all ears.0
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@DebSozo Thanks! It sounds as if you have already done well and are ready for the next phase of your venture! Two weeks ago I started one of Pavel's beginner kettlebell routines in addition to the 5 weekly Jazzercise classes I've been doing for years. You may be familiar already, but Jazzercise is underestimated by many, and includes cardio and resistance training. It is as challenging as you want to make it. As to the kettlebells, I will increase the kettlebell weight every 5 weeks, and after 10-15 weeks I may start doing some Stronglifts routines. I plan on going slow to focus on form and avoiding injury. If anyone does know of a more appropriate thread for someone like me to get some help & encouragement, I am all ears.
Maybe you could start one!!!!
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I've done fairly well and just need some tweaking. I figure if I start recomp now I can change my body shape a bit.1
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@KetoneKaren There are > 2500 members posting in this group ---> http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/506-near-or-post-menopausal-group (I can't vouch for recomp content there, but it is a fairly active group and may offer some insight)KetoneKaren wrote: »... I wonder if there is a better place for postmenopausal females who are trying to recomp can post. ...
... If anyone does know of a more appropriate thread for someone like me to get some help & encouragement, I am all ears.
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Thank you so much!0
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@KetoneKaren just curious, why do you feel this thread isn't appropriate for you? I don't get it.1
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@DebSozo Thanks! It sounds as if you have already done well and are ready for the next phase of your venture! Two weeks ago I started one of Pavel's beginner kettlebell routines in addition to the 5 weekly Jazzercise classes I've been doing for years. You may be familiar already, but Jazzercise is underestimated by many, and includes cardio and resistance training. It is as challenging as you want to make it. As to the kettlebells, I will increase the kettlebell weight every 5 weeks, and after 10-15 weeks I may start doing some Stronglifts routines. I plan on going slow to focus on form and avoiding injury. If anyone does know of a more appropriate thread for someone like me to get some help & encouragement, I am all ears.
I agree on Jazzercise. 40 minutes of aerobic dance and then light strength and stretching with 5-10lb weights, pushups, situps, etc. The instructors are trained and audited, and the routines are standardized so the quality is reliable wherever you go. Always given low impact versions and high impact versions of each routine. The classes I was in, nobody is pushy, it's friendly and accepting but not cultish. I absolutely enjoyed Jazzercise.
Also just the mental release of dancing - having to pay attention to the movements, feeling the music. It's a very silly sort of dancing but still feels so good.
I lost 20lb without even noticing it, doing Jazzercise. After my fourth baby. Didn't diet, wasn't really aiming to lose weight, the body just came around, form following function.
Hands down my favorite sort of cardio workout. I wish there was a good studio near me now.1 -
@KetoneKaren just curious, why do you feel this thread isn't appropriate for you? I don't get it.
This experience: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10407615/disadvantages-of-keto-diet/p11
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KetoneKaren wrote: »@KetoneKaren just curious, why do you feel this thread isn't appropriate for you? I don't get it.
This experience: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10407615/disadvantages-of-keto-diet/p11
I'm confused...that's a different thread and has nothing to do with "recomping".
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@Hornsby HornsbyHornsby
Posts: 8,377
Member
KetoneKaren wrote: »
» show previous quotes
You are probably correct, although not kind in the way you word your response. There is undoubtedly some margin of error, but my doctor is board certified in internal medicine, endocrinology, and nonsurgical bariatrics and has sophisticated means of measuring body composition. Whether I have gained a few ounces or lost a few ounces of muscle is neither here nor there. The point is that I am managing to preserve muscle, for the most part, while losing fat. I am proud of that and there is no need to ridicule my progress.
Edited to correct typo.
Not sure why the wording bothered you. The only way to measure to that level of accuracy would be through autopsy. That's just a fact. Since you are alive and hopefully won't be dead anytime soon...:. a vivisection would literally be the only way to measure that small of a gain with any reasonable accuracy.0 -
So accurate information is offensive?1
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KetoneKaren wrote: »
@Hornsby The reason the wording bothered me is because he honed in on the "4oz" piece rather than the fact that I have lost 21 lbs of fat and managed to preserve muscle mass, even allowing for a margin of error inherent in all measuring devices short of autopsy. Throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I felt dismissed.
I see. Well, I assumed you were replying in regards to the muscle gain discussion that was going on when you posted. I assume @FunkyTobias was thinking the same thing. Making that really the only thing worth discussing/rebutting. Whether the numbers are accurate or not doesn't change the fact that you are having great progress.0
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