Looking for nerd/science answer - losing inches but not really pounds...

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hartmamp
hartmamp Posts: 80 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I know there are a ton of threads about this, and typically the answer is "water". But this for me has been a solid 3 months of accurate weighing/logging and lifting heavy (Stronglifts). Since the beginning of March, the scale has shown at MOST a loss of 5lbs (I weighed in at this much of a loss only once about 2 weeks ago - I consistently see a number that shows a 3.5 - 4lb loss). But in comparing pictures and also my clothes, I am losing inches, which of course, I will take! But what is the real reason this is happening since I'm eating at a deficit? Is it still just water or what?

The deficit I am eating at should be around a 1lb loss per week. I say around because I know it's hard to find an accurate TDEE number. I'm assuming I am eating at a decent deficit to be losing inches, but is that an inaccurate assumption? Should I cut calories even more?
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  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
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    Stats, OP?
  • draekin13
    draekin13 Posts: 27 Member
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    My guess is that you are turning your fat into lean muscle mass because of the heavy lifting. When I tend to start lifting weights my weight loss slows but I continue to lose inches. I would bet your body fat % is getting lower, that may be how you want to track.
  • hartmamp
    hartmamp Posts: 80 Member
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    draekin13 wrote: »
    My guess is that you are turning your fat into lean muscle mass because of the heavy lifting. When I tend to start lifting weights my weight loss slows but I continue to lose inches. I would bet your body fat % is getting lower, that may be how you want to track.

    But I thought that was impossible on a deficit?

    I am 5'2" and started at 149lb. The lowest my scale has shown has been 144lb, but I only saw that number once. I tend to see 145-145.5lb more frequently.
  • terbusha
    terbusha Posts: 1,483 Member
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    That's a great question. If you're lifting heavy, dropping inches, and maintaining weight over time, you're gaining muscle slowly as you are reducing your body fat at the same rate. I've done the same thing myself. I had a period of 5 months where I didn't lose any weight. However, in that time I went from 11 to ~7% body fat. It was a big difference in pictures.

    Over time, as you eat at a caloric deficit, your body will respond by dropping your metabolism to get back to energy homeostasis, especially as you get pretty lean. Most of the time, you can get by this by adjusting your caloric intake. However, if you're already pretty low on calorie intake, I would not really recommend that you drop to an extremely low intake. If you bottom out with calories and get stuck in a plateau, you should do a reverse diet to get your maintenance calorie level back up a good level before you cut again.
  • mitch22098
    mitch22098 Posts: 38 Member
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    I have read that when we start loosing weight we lose 60% fat to 40% muscle but that ratio changes as we go along until it gets reversed. With strength training we gain muscle mass, however we continue to lose fat. As fat weighs less than lean muscle mass the scale doesn't change much, but our size will. Keep up the good work!
  • sticky130
    sticky130 Posts: 101 Member
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    I so glad this question has been asked from a science point of view as I would also like to know! I've got around 50lbs still to lose and for the last 8 weeks I've really got on top of lifting heavy regularly (full body 3 times per week about 1 hour each time) I also do 2 aqua hiit classes which helps my dodgy knee! I have my MFP set at sedentary, I earn extra calories only if I walk enough from my fitbit, I record none of my extra exercise so I eat on average 14-1500 a day. In the last eight weeks however I've gained & lost the same 4lbs!! BUT and this is a big BUT, I've lost 1inch of my waist & butt and 1 inch of each thigh, so no complaints here :)

    So back to OP post, if you can only gain muscle in a surplus and the scales aren't showing a loss, what the heck is happening to our bodies to cause them to shrink??
  • IsaackGMOON
    IsaackGMOON Posts: 3,358 Member
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    draekin13 wrote: »
    My guess is that you are turning your fat into lean muscle mass because of the heavy lifting. When I tend to start lifting weights my weight loss slows but I continue to lose inches. I would bet your body fat % is getting lower, that may be how you want to track.

    No... that's not going to happen in a deficit. On molecular terms, muscle and fat have different structures.. not possible.
  • katscoots
    katscoots Posts: 255 Member
    edited June 2015
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    I would say you need to define what deficit means to you. Deficit can simply be less than what you normally eat, but if you are eating less today than you did yesterday, in theory, you would lose weight (over time). Most people, if really overweight, start out at a deficit that is not necessarily severe, but enough to start loss. If you are eating at such a deficit that your body has to "eat" muscle to survive then yeah, you're not gaining muscle. As You lose fat your muscles become more obvious (visually). I'd like to see the scientific proof that you can't build muscle on a "deficit". I know I have. Again, I think you have to define what deficit means to you.
  • hekla90
    hekla90 Posts: 595 Member
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    mitch22098 wrote: »
    I have read that when we start loosing weight we lose 60% fat to 40% muscle but that ratio changes as we go along until it gets reversed. With strength training we gain muscle mass, however we continue to lose fat. As fat weighs less than lean muscle mass the scale doesn't change much, but our size will. Keep up the good work!

    I just hate when my pound of muscle weighs more than my pound of fat!
  • sticky130
    sticky130 Posts: 101 Member
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    I'm quite sure that when most people mean they are eating at a deficit it means less than their maintenance calories? I know that's what I mean :wink: I personally am eating according to MFP about 5-600 calories a day less than my maintenance calories (my TDEE) which should equal 1lb a week, on top of this however; I am not recording any of the work I do at the gym or pool, so I'm hoping this would equal another 1/2-1lb a week as well. I've started kinda ignoring so much as what the scales say and concentrating on using the navy tape method for calculating BF, not perfect I know, but as long as the % keeps dropping I feel I'm on the right track. Still comes back to the issue that the scales have to move sometime as I'm quite sure that it's impossible to weigh 195 and be a size UK10! lol
  • rjmudlax13
    rjmudlax13 Posts: 909 Member
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    hekla90 wrote: »
    mitch22098 wrote: »
    I have read that when we start loosing weight we lose 60% fat to 40% muscle but that ratio changes as we go along until it gets reversed. With strength training we gain muscle mass, however we continue to lose fat. As fat weighs less than lean muscle mass the scale doesn't change much, but our size will. Keep up the good work!

    I just hate when my pound of muscle weighs more than my pound of fat!

    Oh stop being such a pedant! It really has gotten old in the land of Internets.
  • mcr0980
    mcr0980 Posts: 30 Member
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    You're gaining muscle! It weighs more than fat but takes up less space. Don't be bothered, be happy =p
  • sticky130
    sticky130 Posts: 101 Member
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    mcr0980 wrote: »
    You're gaining muscle! It weighs more than fat but takes up less space. Don't be bothered, be happy =p

    And what makes you say this?

    We're not eating at a surplus, as we keep getting told this is the only way to gain muscle, also I think we're both happy that we're losing inches we would just like a nerd/science answer, one that doesn't contradict everything we've been told!! :)

    We're just looking for something a bit more specific...
  • 3bambi3
    3bambi3 Posts: 1,650 Member
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    If you are new to lifting, you can have "newbie gains" but not enough to offset your 1lb/week goal. Women who are eating in a calorie surplus and on a dedicated progressive lifting program can gain .5-1lb/month. So, let's rule out the whole "replacing fat with muscle" argument.

    1. Have you taken actual measurements? If not, it could be a bit psychosomatic. It could also be a bit of water retention.
    2. What is your current intake?
    3. How are you logging your intake?

    If you aren't losing weight, you aren't in a deficit. If you have been logging what you think should be a pound a week and it's only .25lb/week, adjust your intake accordingly, as your TDEE estimate is likely off.
  • Morgaath
    Morgaath Posts: 679 Member
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    Those new to lifting heavy/formerly sedentary types will experience their fastest muscle gains, and will often gain lean body mass while losing fat.
    At the bottom is links to studies: http://muscleevo.net/lose-fat-gain-muscle/
    and then this one:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169
  • peachyfuzzle
    peachyfuzzle Posts: 1,122 Member
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    mcr0980 wrote: »
    You're gaining muscle! It weighs more than fat but takes up less space. Don't be bothered, be happy =p

    The first part of this is untrue. The second part is true.

    Muscle = more dense than fat
    Muscle =/= heavier than fat
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
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    Morgaath wrote: »
    Those new to lifting heavy/formerly sedentary types will experience their fastest muscle gains, and will often gain lean body mass while losing fat.
    At the bottom is links to studies: http://muscleevo.net/lose-fat-gain-muscle/
    and then this one:
    http://forum.bodybuilding.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3519021&d=1310193169

    Yep.
  • hartmamp
    hartmamp Posts: 80 Member
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    3bambi3 wrote: »
    If you are new to lifting, you can have "newbie gains" but not enough to offset your 1lb/week goal. Women who are eating in a calorie surplus and on a dedicated progressive lifting program can gain .5-1lb/month. So, let's rule out the whole "replacing fat with muscle" argument.

    1. Have you taken actual measurements? If not, it could be a bit psychosomatic. It could also be a bit of water retention.
    2. What is your current intake?
    3. How are you logging your intake?

    If you aren't losing weight, you aren't in a deficit. If you have been logging what you think should be a pound a week and it's only .25lb/week, adjust your intake accordingly, as your TDEE estimate is likely off.

    1. Yes, actual measurements (although I struggle with the accuracy of this because how can I be sure I'm doing it the exact same way each time?) I also compared photos and there is a noticeable difference, as well as clothes fitting that did not fit before.
    2. I average 1650 calories a day - I say average because some days are less and some are more because I aim for a weekly number.
    3. I log using MFP and I weigh everything I possibly can. Yes, including packaged items that have serving sizes. Yes, in grams. I know all those rules. This isn't one of those posts.

    I post this from a different angle than many other MFPer's... I am confident that I am getting smaller, that's not my question. I'm not going to cut my calories much lower (if at all) because I know for me, that's just gonna be too much of a struggle. My question is that from my understanding (previously) was that you cannot build muscle in a deficit. So why isn't my scale dropping when my measurements are?

    There seems to be a minor chance that certain individuals who have a high bodyfat % and are new to heavy lifting may be able to achieve fat loss and muscle increase for a short time. This could possssssibly be the case but I'm not really sure yet. But the articles that Morgaath posted seem to indicate that it's not 100% IMpossible. I hesitate to jump on board that this is my answer because although I did start stronglifts about six weeks ago I was not brand new to working out or even strength training, although I was in the BodyPump/lighter weight camp.

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