Disturbing trend on MFP….
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Alatariel75 wrote: »I'd rather take an extra week to meet my "goal weight" (not that I have one, I'm working to visual satisfaction) than have to restrict myself from going out, or having to order something that I'm not going to enjoy when I am out.
I don't see the point of going out to eat and ordering the grilled chicken, hold the sauce, with steamed veg, unless that's exactly what I feel like at the time. I'f I'm going to pay $20 for a meal, it sure isn't going to be something I could make at home for $4.
Today I have a pizza lunch with work, and a dumpling dinner with my houseguest. No idea how to track either, as I won't know what I'm having until I'm there. Yes, I skipped breakfast. Yes, I'll have more salad than pizza at lunch, and will order a dish of chinese broccoli and oyster sauce with dinner. But I'll enjoy it, walk some extra, and if the scale goes up a little in the next few days, I'll shave a few calories off.
It's only as hard as you make it.
This!0 -
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rjmudlax13 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »karintalley wrote: »I actually dissected a kebab today to figure out the calorie content. lol
I took apart a damn tuna hoagie the other day to weigh the individual components. The extra helping of shame put me over my calorie goal for the day.
Sorry for the off topic but are you from near Philly? There arent many people that i know who call it a hoagie.
I'm 10 minutes from Center City (on the Jersey side of the Delaware) and can hear the stadium fireworks from my front yard. You nearby?
Was it from Wawa?
Dude. I'm in the land of the hoagie! Wawa may be the best convenience store in the world, but South Jersey's best hoagie shop is a 5 minute walk from my house.
I enjoy a good Capriotti's. The Bobbie. Enough said.
Capastrami. That is the thing dreams are made of.
Okay, why don't we have any of these things on the West coast? First pizza, now the hoagies are better in the East?
IMO pizza is better in the midwest--I find New England pizza (first CT and now Boston) to be very greasy and the crust tastes like cardboard.
Lobsters, clams, oysters? Yeah, we're pretty good at that out here.
Most pizza in New England is horrible. It's mostly Greek style and, as you said, very greasy, too think and tasteless. One exception is New Haven. Frank Pepe's is amazing! However, it is tough to walk more than a couple of blocks in NY, LI and NJ without passing by about 5 really good pizzerias.
Oh--Frank Pepe's is exactly the disgusting stuff to which I was referring! So greasy! And we made the mistake of ordering bacon on it (because bacon)--they don't pre-cook the bacon before putting it on the pizza and it comes out all flaccid and chewy. Apparently they are building one in the North End of Boston and people are going crazy. I'll pass.
Buddy's Pizza in Michigan is what I'm talking about... Or Cottage Inn... Or Pizza House in Ann Arbor.
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That's pretty frequent. I'd say that's enough times that if I went out that often and said "I won't worry about the calories" I'd be even fatter than I am already and would probably balloon back up. How much do you work out to allow that or is it just you're making more simple food choices?
I work out 6 hours a week and i have a desk job. But even when i go out, a lot of my meals are less than 1000 calories. Like i said, i make smarter choices. And if i go real big on meals i will either skip breakfast or lower the next few days. Its just about finding a strategy to stay within your calories. And worst case is i know certain weeks i wont lose and i fine with that.
Meh, maybe it's just genetics or the extra 2 hours (I work out about 4 and have a desk job). I don't really have huge meals when I go out (1-3 times a week on weekends) but I just don't lose anything. You're pretty lucky.
The chances of the two of you having huge differences in metabolism are minute. Chances you have a difference in tracking, pretty good.0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »mattyc772014 wrote: »Is there a pizza thread/group on MFP?
I don't recall seeing a pizza group. If there isn't one, we need to make one
In for the pizza group!
+1!
We are making homemade pizza tonight on the grill and watching the US-Sweden soccer match! Finally got my herbs planted so we can have margherita pizza with basil from the garden!
pizza on the grill is the bomb...
actually, I like this method..
I put in oven on about 400 for three to four minutes, then move to grill for about three minutes, then transfer back to oven for about two minutes...
That's a lot of moving things around dude.
The technique I used last time (albeit with a store bought crust) was to heat up the grill super hot. Make the pizza, put it on the grill, turn the grill off (again this is for a gas grill), let it sit for about 10 minutes. It worked really well.
I have had issues with burning crusts on the grill in the past... Nothing worse than opening up the grill waiting to slide the delicious pizza off and realize it is charred black on the bottom. sadpanda.jpg
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That's it. I've got to get a gas grill for next summer. I love charcoal but it is not so conducive to making pizza. Also I'm lazy as hell and I'm sick of cleaning up the ash. :grumble:0
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Meh, it's simple if you don't eat out often. You probably don't have to worry too much about what you order no matter what. I think the issue is many of the people asking are used to eating out for more meals than they don't and in many case are even coming from a point in their lives where they don't exercise or haven't for very long. It's easy for the guy/gal who runs 10 miles a day or has been bulking/cutting for years and is 10% body fat to say "it's just one day!" Maybe it 99% mental but it's still a valid thing.
I eat out a TON due to frequent work travel and general laziness. If you're gonna be "about that restaurant life," it's pretty simple as long as you're realistic.
1. I know I will weigh more tomorrow because there's no such thing as low sodium at a restaurant...even if it tastes bland.
2. Plan in advance and be aware of the sum total of my calories and macros for the day. If I know I'm eating out that night, I'm going to be more judicious with my calories throughout the day.
3. Double meat...because I need my protein.
4. No nutritional facts isn't the end of the world. I live in a city where majority of the restaurants don't have nutritional facts. I recognize that fried shrimp at restaurant X isn't going to be wildly different than fried shrimp from chilis so I log chilis. log high when in doubt.
5. If I do pack on a real pound, I adjust accordingly the next week.
6. Have the mental awareness that in the grand scheme of things, an extra 1000 calories in a week is not deadly.
7. Every time I eat out is really just an excuse to order steak in some way shape or form. Thanks cows!
Again, said every fit person ever. Tell that to the dude that's 300lbs and just started walking for exercise. You're seeing it from a different place and that's fine. Also, 1000 calories a week isn't deadly but if you have your goals set to lose a pound a week that extra 1000 calories every week means you're now losing .72 lbs a week. Probably not a big deal to the bulk/cutter who again, is probably only dropping a few pounds but for someone with 30, 40, 50lbs to lose that adds weeks and weeks and weeks to getting to your goal.
I have been overweight and and my perspective hasn't changed. The view point that an off week is deadly is exactly why so many people never make it past 5 pounds lost. They see less weight loss (or no weight lost) in a week, get sad and quit. So yes, what I wrote still applies. The person with 30, 40, 50 pounds to lose can have the same sense of awareness that extra calories from some meals out won't kill you in the long run and staying the course will keek you on track.
My point is that those who eat out multiple times a week can still apply the same restaurant logic as someone who only eats out once in a while.0 -
asflatasapancake wrote: »mattyc772014 wrote: »Is there a pizza thread/group on MFP?
I don't recall seeing a pizza group. If there isn't one, we need to make one
In for the pizza group!
+1!
We are making homemade pizza tonight on the grill and watching the US-Sweden soccer match! Finally got my herbs planted so we can have margherita pizza with basil from the garden!
pizza on the grill is the bomb...
actually, I like this method..
I put in oven on about 400 for three to four minutes, then move to grill for about three minutes, then transfer back to oven for about two minutes...
That's a lot of moving things around dude.
The technique I used last time (albeit with a store bought crust) was to heat up the grill super hot. Make the pizza, put it on the grill, turn the grill off (again this is for a gas grill), let it sit for about 10 minutes. It worked really well.
I have had issues with burning crusts on the grill in the past... Nothing worse than opening up the grill waiting to slide the delicious pizza off and realize it is charred black on the bottom. sadpanda.jpg
it is a lot of moving around...but it comes out pretty damn good..so worth the effort ..IMO
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »karintalley wrote: »I actually dissected a kebab today to figure out the calorie content. lol
I took apart a damn tuna hoagie the other day to weigh the individual components. The extra helping of shame put me over my calorie goal for the day.
Sorry for the off topic but are you from near Philly? There arent many people that i know who call it a hoagie.
I'm 10 minutes from Center City (on the Jersey side of the Delaware) and can hear the stadium fireworks from my front yard. You nearby?
Was it from Wawa?
Dude. I'm in the land of the hoagie! Wawa may be the best convenience store in the world, but South Jersey's best hoagie shop is a 5 minute walk from my house.
I enjoy a good Capriotti's. The Bobbie. Enough said.
Capastrami. That is the thing dreams are made of.
Okay, why don't we have any of these things on the West coast? First pizza, now the hoagies are better in the East?
IMO pizza is better in the midwest--I find New England pizza (first CT and now Boston) to be very greasy and the crust tastes like cardboard.
Lobsters, clams, oysters? Yeah, we're pretty good at that out here.
Pizza is much better in NY and Philly than New England .
I am further east than New England...but that being said I suspect Boston Pizza or from some place in NY would be best..but they are east coast too.0 -
That's pretty frequent. I'd say that's enough times that if I went out that often and said "I won't worry about the calories" I'd be even fatter than I am already and would probably balloon back up. How much do you work out to allow that or is it just you're making more simple food choices?
I work out 6 hours a week and i have a desk job. But even when i go out, a lot of my meals are less than 1000 calories. Like i said, i make smarter choices. And if i go real big on meals i will either skip breakfast or lower the next few days. Its just about finding a strategy to stay within your calories. And worst case is i know certain weeks i wont lose and i fine with that.
Exactly. That's how I felt as well when I was losing. I had to because there were weeks where I knew choices would be difficult so maintenance was the goal. Too a lot of people miss that and can't mentally recover from an off week and suddenly it's the end of the world, panic time to quit. So if you're making a choice to eat out, you just have to be ok with the possibility of an off week. Really helps get you through.0 -
The first thing I do when I go to a restaurant is look at the waitstaff directly in the eyes and tell them straight out that I'm not one to be stifled with.
Then I order "two of everything" except the rigatoni. Make that a triple. If they don't have rigatoni on the menu, then I randomly select something from the menu for the triple order.
If I not completely satisfied, I defecate on the table, preferably on the menu itself. If I am satisfied, I perform a little curtsy to indicate my appreciation.
This may seem complicated and contrived. That's because it is complicated and contrived.
For the record, I agree with some of the above comments. I go to a restaurant, order what I want, and update my exercise and future eating plans to accommodate it. It's the same for a 1000 calorie dinner or a 5000 calorie feast. If I don't know the actual calories I estimate on the very high side just to be safe.
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1HappyRedhead wrote: »Okay.... now I MUST google Wawa.....
Me too. I've already learned I should regret the lack of a Wegman's here, am I missing something else?
So sad.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »1HappyRedhead wrote: »Okay.... now I MUST google Wawa.....
Me too. I've already learned I should regret the lack of a Wegman's here, am I missing something else?
So sad.
It's like hearing the Fage yogurt is the bomb and not being able to buy it anywhere near here...*cries*
meanies mentioning all the good stuff...0 -
rjmudlax13 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »karintalley wrote: »I actually dissected a kebab today to figure out the calorie content. lol
I took apart a damn tuna hoagie the other day to weigh the individual components. The extra helping of shame put me over my calorie goal for the day.
Sorry for the off topic but are you from near Philly? There arent many people that i know who call it a hoagie.
I'm 10 minutes from Center City (on the Jersey side of the Delaware) and can hear the stadium fireworks from my front yard. You nearby?
Was it from Wawa?
Dude. I'm in the land of the hoagie! Wawa may be the best convenience store in the world, but South Jersey's best hoagie shop is a 5 minute walk from my house.
I enjoy a good Capriotti's. The Bobbie. Enough said.
Capastrami. That is the thing dreams are made of.
Okay, why don't we have any of these things on the West coast? First pizza, now the hoagies are better in the East?
IMO pizza is better in the midwest--I find New England pizza (first CT and now Boston) to be very greasy and the crust tastes like cardboard.
Lobsters, clams, oysters? Yeah, we're pretty good at that out here.
Most pizza in New England is horrible. It's mostly Greek style and, as you said, very greasy, too think and tasteless. One exception is New Haven. Frank Pepe's is amazing! However, it is tough to walk more than a couple of blocks in NY, LI and NJ without passing by about 5 really good pizzerias.
Oh--Frank Pepe's is exactly the disgusting stuff to which I was referring! So greasy! And we made the mistake of ordering bacon on it (because bacon)--they don't pre-cook the bacon before putting it on the pizza and it comes out all flaccid and chewy. Apparently they are building one in the North End of Boston and people are going crazy. I'll pass.
Buddy's Pizza in Michigan is what I'm talking about... Or Cottage Inn... Or Pizza House in Ann Arbor.
I've never been to Buddy's Pizza, but I have extremely fond memories of Cottage Inn pizza. Weirdly enough I never had pizza at Pizza House, but they had great chipatis.
I went to college in MA and while it's not really fair to condemn the whole region, I can say that the only pizza place in my college town was horrible. Amusingly enough I looked them up on Yelp and they seem to still be there and to be about the same. Greasiest pizza ever.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »1HappyRedhead wrote: »Okay.... now I MUST google Wawa.....
Me too. I've already learned I should regret the lack of a Wegman's here, am I missing something else?
So sad.
It's like hearing the Fage yogurt is the bomb and not being able to buy it anywhere near here...*cries*
meanies mentioning all the good stuff...
I don't like Fage yogurt. Always tastes a little bit curdled to me. I tend to buy shops own brand Greek yogurt tbh0 -
Yup you have all probably noticed it…People do not know how to order at restaurants any more! This is really disturbing stuff. There has been a definite uptick in the number of "help, I don't know what to order at this restaurant." The primary culprit seems to be Mexican restaurants, which make sense because after Tequila and Margaritas most of us can barely make it to the bathroom, much less order some food.
So here are my helpful tips for everyone that has "forgotten" how to order at restaurants…
1. Select restaurant and determine if you are going for a blow out "I don't give a damn about calories type night", or just a "I want to stay within my calorie target night."
2. order drink
3. review menu
4. While reviewing menu if you selected blow out option in step 1 then just get whatever you want to eat; however, if you went with stay within calorie option then you should probably go with the the lighter fair such as grilled chicken and vegetables or something similar.
5. make dinner selection
6. eat dinner and have some more drinks
7. enjoy the evening
8. pay
9. leave the restaurant
This nine step plan can be used at any eating establishment and is even transferable to cookouts.
Good luck, and remember it is just a restaurant not complex physics….
To be honest, before I really read your steps I was prepared to blast you for your many "just eat" comments. But then I took a moment and read your tips, and i have to say it actually does make sense to make the blow out (hee hee) or stay within target night distinction. Thank you for acknowledging that this choice does need to be made!
The only issue is that many people are still quite new to weight loss and honestly haven't figured out what exactly the lighter fare is. Or they don't want to walk away completely dissatisfied from grilled chicken (that's me!), and are willing to eat a small surplus for more taste, but still without a blow out (haha, what am I, ten?). So yes, sometimes I ask for opinions on which meal could be a lower calorie meal for a little more taste than boring chicken. And I've gotten good ideas, so it was worth asking!0 -
That's pretty frequent. I'd say that's enough times that if I went out that often and said "I won't worry about the calories" I'd be even fatter than I am already and would probably balloon back up. How much do you work out to allow that or is it just you're making more simple food choices?
I work out 6 hours a week and i have a desk job. But even when i go out, a lot of my meals are less than 1000 calories. Like i said, i make smarter choices. And if i go real big on meals i will either skip breakfast or lower the next few days. Its just about finding a strategy to stay within your calories. And worst case is i know certain weeks i wont lose and i fine with that.
Meh, maybe it's just genetics or the extra 2 hours (I work out about 4 and have a desk job). I don't really have huge meals when I go out (1-3 times a week on weekends) but I just don't lose anything. You're pretty lucky.
The chances of the two of you having huge differences in metabolism are minute. Chances you have a difference in tracking, pretty good.
Hey now, i am genetically gifted and a super special snow flake dont you know. I do maintain my weight at 3000 calories if that makes a difference.
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NobodyPutsAmyInTheCorner wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »1HappyRedhead wrote: »Okay.... now I MUST google Wawa.....
Me too. I've already learned I should regret the lack of a Wegman's here, am I missing something else?
So sad.
It's like hearing the Fage yogurt is the bomb and not being able to buy it anywhere near here...*cries*
meanies mentioning all the good stuff...
I don't like Fage yogurt. Always tastes a little bit curdled to me. I tend to buy shops own brand Greek yogurt tbh
I actually can't bring myself to pay for it- and I can't imagine it's significantly better than my Cabot Full Fat Plain Greek- 4.99 for a container- technically it's 4 servings- 226 grams a serving at 310 calories a pop- I split it into 6 for the week- Monday - Saturday and have just enough left over as a half serving to use as sour cream on anything that requires it. Nomnbombnom- I add honey or blackberries/raspberries. Either one. Makes me happy.0 -
I struggled badly ordering food last night. My favorite bar changed the menu, added so many delicious sounding items that I was torn as to which one I would try first.0
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I second your plan and wonder why people make things harder than it is?0
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Meh, it's simple if you don't eat out often. You probably don't have to worry too much about what you order no matter what. I think the issue is many of the people asking are used to eating out for more meals than they don't and in many case are even coming from a point in their lives where they don't exercise or haven't for very long. It's easy for the guy/gal who runs 10 miles a day or has been bulking/cutting for years and is 10% body fat to say "it's just one day!" Maybe it 99% mental but it's still a valid thing.
I eat out a TON due to frequent work travel and general laziness. If you're gonna be "about that restaurant life," it's pretty simple as long as you're realistic.
1. I know I will weigh more tomorrow because there's no such thing as low sodium at a restaurant...even if it tastes bland.
2. Plan in advance and be aware of the sum total of my calories and macros for the day. If I know I'm eating out that night, I'm going to be more judicious with my calories throughout the day.
3. Double meat...because I need my protein.
4. No nutritional facts isn't the end of the world. I live in a city where majority of the restaurants don't have nutritional facts. I recognize that fried shrimp at restaurant X isn't going to be wildly different than fried shrimp from chilis so I log chilis. log high when in doubt.
5. If I do pack on a real pound, I adjust accordingly the next week.
6. Have the mental awareness that in the grand scheme of things, an extra 1000 calories in a week is not deadly.
7. Every time I eat out is really just an excuse to order steak in some way shape or form. Thanks cows!
Again, said every fit person ever. Tell that to the dude that's 300lbs and just started walking for exercise. You're seeing it from a different place and that's fine. Also, 1000 calories a week isn't deadly but if you have your goals set to lose a pound a week that extra 1000 calories every week means you're now losing .72 lbs a week. Probably not a big deal to the bulk/cutter who again, is probably only dropping a few pounds but for someone with 30, 40, 50lbs to lose that adds weeks and weeks and weeks to getting to your goal.
I have been overweight and and my perspective hasn't changed. The view point that an off week is deadly is exactly why so many people never make it past 5 pounds lost. They see less weight loss (or no weight lost) in a week, get sad and quit. So yes, what I wrote still applies. The person with 30, 40, 50 pounds to lose can have the same sense of awareness that extra calories from some meals out won't kill you in the long run and staying the course will keek you on track.
My point is that those who eat out multiple times a week can still apply the same restaurant logic as someone who only eats out once in a while.
How long where you overweight and how long did it take you to get to a normal size? I've been losing for YEARS. As in over 5. Yeah yeah, my fault for being so big it took that long but when you work at something that long and you keep getting faced with the prospect of another week and another week it's just not so easy to say "Oh OK, I guess I shouldn't feel bad about ordering 1000 calories worth of pizza, chinese, or whatever." Honestly most of the "just eat" advocates sound like they had cakewalks when it comes to getting fit. Great it was easy for you. Why is it so crazy to think it might be harder for others?
You both have points. I don't know if it matters HOW MUCH weight or how long it took. It's just different personalities. I didn't have 100 lbs to lose. Yet I struggled for years with the relatively small amount I needed to lose (and I'm still not there, but much closer to goal). Every day I have to fight my brain to ensure I stick with it and don't exceed my budget. YES, there are events worth going into surplus. A wedding last week was absolutely worth it. I overeat by about 500 calories, which meant I spent all of this week deducting another 100 calories from my current 250 deficit.
Going to Chilli's with my kids tonight? No. We're going to spend time together (husband works late most of the week, so we're going to enjoy dinner as a family). There is nothing that special at Chilli's (just using it as an example) for me to just eat whatever and tack on more days to my weight loss (or tack on more deficit next week).
I pick which events are worth going crazy, and it's not many. To me, changing my "lifestyle" means just that. It's changing the way I eat (how much) on a nearly daily basis.0 -
I typically recommend that people evaluate their restaurant frequency as well as what they order.
Going 4-6 times per week? Probably need to learn what to order to minimize calories. Going 2/month? Might have more room for looser restrictions.
The chef wants you to come back and isn't concerned about your calories.
Single ingredient items tend to be a good place to start for most people.0 -
I typically recommend that people evaluate their restaurant frequency as well as what they order.
Going 4-6 times per week? Probably need to learn what to order to minimize calories. Going 2/month? Might have more room for looser restrictions.
The chef wants you to come back and isn't concerned about your calories.
Single ingredient items tend to be a good place to start for most people.
Very good point. Also, consider your stats. Someone in maintenance at 2500 calories can afford a few high calorie meals. Someone eating 1400 (um, height-challenged), will be affected much more by these larger meals.
Also, I've grown to appreciate the full-but-not-stuffed-and bloated feeling. I don't really WANT to go back to that, no matter how much I might enjoy a meal. So that means eating half an entree, or a meal from the "lite section" if they have one. I no longer think it's fun to feel stuffed and gross.0 -
I typically recommend that people evaluate their restaurant frequency as well as what they order.
Going 4-6 times per week? Probably need to learn what to order to minimize calories. Going 2/month? Might have more room for looser restrictions.
The chef wants you to come back and isn't concerned about your calories.
Single ingredient items tend to be a good place to start for most people.
so true ..
If I have a lot of business lunch/dinner things going on then I go with the lighter options; if I am going out with friends and family then all bets are off and I am going to get what appeals to me and log it to the best of my ability.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »rjmudlax13 wrote: »Liftng4Lis wrote: »PrizePopple wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »tincanonastring wrote: »karintalley wrote: »I actually dissected a kebab today to figure out the calorie content. lol
I took apart a damn tuna hoagie the other day to weigh the individual components. The extra helping of shame put me over my calorie goal for the day.
Sorry for the off topic but are you from near Philly? There arent many people that i know who call it a hoagie.
I'm 10 minutes from Center City (on the Jersey side of the Delaware) and can hear the stadium fireworks from my front yard. You nearby?
Was it from Wawa?
Dude. I'm in the land of the hoagie! Wawa may be the best convenience store in the world, but South Jersey's best hoagie shop is a 5 minute walk from my house.
I enjoy a good Capriotti's. The Bobbie. Enough said.
Capastrami. That is the thing dreams are made of.
Okay, why don't we have any of these things on the West coast? First pizza, now the hoagies are better in the East?
IMO pizza is better in the midwest--I find New England pizza (first CT and now Boston) to be very greasy and the crust tastes like cardboard.
Lobsters, clams, oysters? Yeah, we're pretty good at that out here.
Most pizza in New England is horrible. It's mostly Greek style and, as you said, very greasy, too think and tasteless. One exception is New Haven. Frank Pepe's is amazing! However, it is tough to walk more than a couple of blocks in NY, LI and NJ without passing by about 5 really good pizzerias.
Oh--Frank Pepe's is exactly the disgusting stuff to which I was referring! So greasy! And we made the mistake of ordering bacon on it (because bacon)--they don't pre-cook the bacon before putting it on the pizza and it comes out all flaccid and chewy. Apparently they are building one in the North End of Boston and people are going crazy. I'll pass.
Buddy's Pizza in Michigan is what I'm talking about... Or Cottage Inn... Or Pizza House in Ann Arbor.
I've never been to Buddy's Pizza, but I have extremely fond memories of Cottage Inn pizza. Weirdly enough I never had pizza at Pizza House, but they had great chipatis.
I went to college in MA and while it's not really fair to condemn the whole region, I can say that the only pizza place in my college town was horrible. Amusingly enough I looked them up on Yelp and they seem to still be there and to be about the same. Greasiest pizza ever.
where did you go to college?
Bertucci's (sp) is pretty good in Boston ...brick oven style pizza.
There are also some good places in the north end area of Boston.
For some reason I always loved Papa Gino's and still do, even though it is chain style....0
This discussion has been closed.
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