SUGAR what's your view
Replies
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You really think it would be miraculous? I'm inclined to think that within the next decade, tracking calories with become rather effortless, though not necessarily as accurate as a lot of MFPers do. There are a few groups working on being able to give calories based on taking a picture with a smartphone, and the next big thing is the integrated wearable technology that automatically does tasks like record what you're doing. I'd actually be willing to take bets on this kind of tracking being done automatically for people who want it in the next 10 years.bobby19666 wrote: »I mean the bad kind and gi foods such as simple carbs. Personally i don't see it as a reason for weight gain
How many people got fat from sucking on too many sugar cubes thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many apples thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many cakes, chocolate bars, sweets, fizzy pop, biscuits thereby exceeding their TDEE? Errrrrrrrr.
The principal issue with sugar and weight gain in my opinion is not the actual substance itself but rather how it is combined with other things (particularly fat - hmmmm, cake batter) to create hyper-palatable products and a person's individual behavioural response to that.
I got fat eating everything…philly cheesteaks, mozzarella sticks, and fried foods where my primer choices…I actually didn to eat many sugar things; although, they were included…
people get fat from overeating on EVERYTHING
Sure, I appreciate that.
However, your experience does speak to my point. The items you listed are highly palatable (cheesesteaks, mozzarella sticks and fried food) but that is not surprising as they tend to be high in fat and fat when used in cooking increases palatability. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that French cuisine which is particularly delicious in my view involves generous amounts of cream and butter.
So, if palatability increases the likelihood of over eating what happens when food stuffs are hyper-palatable especially on a behavioural front? It increases the likelihood and the three items most commonly associated with hyper palatability are sugar, fat and salt.
so why are people blaming one macronutrient - sugar - for all of the worlds evils?
People get obese because they overeat on everything and don't move enough. Period.
demonizing sugar as the scourge of the obesity epidemic is ridiculous.
Don't know really. I think there is a tendency for most of us to seek simple solutions and as a result easily executable plans.
Much as I would love to believe that most people will start keeping detailed food diaries and rationally look at their nutrition I don't think that's ever realistically going to happen on a broad scale. So, people look for easy guidelines to guide their choices. Minimising "sugary treats" overall intake is an easier sell.
fixed it for you
But that presumes the broader population will be bothered to track calorie intake with any degree of accuracy over the long term.
Most people don't and unless some kind of miracle occurs they won't and so thinking like this will always pop up.
Yes, I do think it would be miraculous even if someone invented a mouth scanner which automatically logged every single bite a person ate and automatically synched it with a calorie counting site.
It's my personal opinion of course but it would take a fundamental shift in public consciousness to think of food in this way which I don't think many people seek to embrace.
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bobby19666 wrote: »I mean the bad kind and gi foods such as simple carbs. Personally i don't see it as a reason for weight gain
How many people got fat from sucking on too many sugar cubes thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many apples thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many cakes, chocolate bars, sweets, fizzy pop, biscuits thereby exceeding their TDEE? Errrrrrrrr.
The principal issue with sugar and weight gain in my opinion is not the actual substance itself but rather how it is combined with other things (particularly fat - hmmmm, cake batter) to create hyper-palatable products and a person's individual behavioural response to that.
I got fat eating everything…philly cheesteaks, mozzarella sticks, and fried foods where my primer choices…I actually didn to eat many sugar things; although, they were included…
people get fat from overeating on EVERYTHING
Sure, I appreciate that.
However, your experience does speak to my point. The items you listed are highly palatable (cheesesteaks, mozzarella sticks and fried food) but that is not surprising as they tend to be high in fat and fat when used in cooking increases palatability. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that French cuisine which is particularly delicious in my view involves generous amounts of cream and butter.
So, if palatability increases the likelihood of over eating what happens when food stuffs are hyper-palatable especially on a behavioural front? It increases the likelihood and the three items most commonly associated with hyper palatability are sugar, fat and salt.
So what about the people sugar doesn't make things hyper-palatable for? Despite being fat, I was the one kid who though pixie sticks were disgusting. I've always preferred the taste of diet coke to regular - regular tastes like diluted syrup, and I don't like syrup. Don't care for jams or jellies either. Adding sugars to things will actually tend to make them less palatable to me. As much as I enjoy chocolate, if Snickers suddenly added another 50g of sugar to the mix, I'd probably want nothing to with it. Does that suddenly mean added sugar is a good thing?
Then it's not an issue.
For the people it does affect they can have some context to why they struggle so much and knowing why can help them with solutions over and above the "use willpower" approach.
And see to me, the better approach is telling someone who struggles is "yea, you can still eat that, it's okay". Yes, it will be hard to moderate because you have been grabbing a twinkie after every meal for the last however many years. Yes, the stuff tastes fantastic. Yes, you will have to limit the twinkies. But NO, you do not have to eliminate them. You aren't addicted to them. You are just used to the habits of eating them. You can beat that.
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bobby19666 wrote: »I mean the bad kind and gi foods such as simple carbs. Personally i don't see it as a reason for weight gain
How many people got fat from sucking on too many sugar cubes thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many apples thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many cakes, chocolate bars, sweets, fizzy pop, biscuits thereby exceeding their TDEE? Errrrrrrrr.
The principal issue with sugar and weight gain in my opinion is not the actual substance itself but rather how it is combined with other things (particularly fat - hmmmm, cake batter) to create hyper-palatable products and a person's individual behavioural response to that.
I got fat eating everything…philly cheesteaks, mozzarella sticks, and fried foods where my primer choices…I actually didn to eat many sugar things; although, they were included…
people get fat from overeating on EVERYTHING
Sure, I appreciate that.
However, your experience does speak to my point. The items you listed are highly palatable (cheesesteaks, mozzarella sticks and fried food) but that is not surprising as they tend to be high in fat and fat when used in cooking increases palatability. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that French cuisine which is particularly delicious in my view involves generous amounts of cream and butter.
So, if palatability increases the likelihood of over eating what happens when food stuffs are hyper-palatable especially on a behavioural front? It increases the likelihood and the three items most commonly associated with hyper palatability are sugar, fat and salt.
So what about the people sugar doesn't make things hyper-palatable for? Despite being fat, I was the one kid who though pixie sticks were disgusting. I've always preferred the taste of diet coke to regular - regular tastes like diluted syrup, and I don't like syrup. Don't care for jams or jellies either. Adding sugars to things will actually tend to make them less palatable to me. As much as I enjoy chocolate, if Snickers suddenly added another 50g of sugar to the mix, I'd probably want nothing to with it. Does that suddenly mean added sugar is a good thing?
Then it's not an issue.
For the people it does affect they can have some context to why they struggle so much and knowing why can help them with solutions over and above the "use willpower" approach.
And see to me, the better approach is telling someone who struggles is "yea, you can still eat that, it's okay". Yes, it will be hard to moderate because you have been grabbing a twinkie after every meal for the last however many years. Yes, the stuff tastes fantastic. Yes, you will have to limit the twinkies. But NO, you do not have to eliminate them. You aren't addicted to them. You are just used to the habits of eating them. You can beat that.
Sure and a deprivation mindset can lead to bingeing which is actually harmful to a person's goal.
However, simply knowing that does not mean a person can execute such behaviour or even that it is suitable for them at that particular point in time (though it may well be in the future.) Again, much of what is going to work will depend on their psychology so a flexible approach would not have any card off the table even if that includes short term elimination.
This forum has a real focus on physiology and scientific accuracy which is great. However, people's psychology and emotional status is much less catered for and disregarded at times.
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bobby19666 wrote: »I mean the bad kind and gi foods such as simple carbs. Personally i don't see it as a reason for weight gain
How many people got fat from sucking on too many sugar cubes thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many apples thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many cakes, chocolate bars, sweets, fizzy pop, biscuits thereby exceeding their TDEE? Errrrrrrrr.
The principal issue with sugar and weight gain in my opinion is not the actual substance itself but rather how it is combined with other things (particularly fat - hmmmm, cake batter) to create hyper-palatable products and a person's individual behavioural response to that.
I got fat eating everything…philly cheesteaks, mozzarella sticks, and fried foods where my primer choices…I actually didn to eat many sugar things; although, they were included…
people get fat from overeating on EVERYTHING
Sure, I appreciate that.
However, your experience does speak to my point. The items you listed are highly palatable (cheesesteaks, mozzarella sticks and fried food) but that is not surprising as they tend to be high in fat and fat when used in cooking increases palatability. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that French cuisine which is particularly delicious in my view involves generous amounts of cream and butter.
So, if palatability increases the likelihood of over eating what happens when food stuffs are hyper-palatable especially on a behavioural front? It increases the likelihood and the three items most commonly associated with hyper palatability are sugar, fat and salt.
So what about the people sugar doesn't make things hyper-palatable for? Despite being fat, I was the one kid who though pixie sticks were disgusting. I've always preferred the taste of diet coke to regular - regular tastes like diluted syrup, and I don't like syrup. Don't care for jams or jellies either. Adding sugars to things will actually tend to make them less palatable to me. As much as I enjoy chocolate, if Snickers suddenly added another 50g of sugar to the mix, I'd probably want nothing to with it. Does that suddenly mean added sugar is a good thing?
Then it's not an issue.
For the people it does affect they can have some context to why they struggle so much and knowing why can help them with solutions over and above the "use willpower" approach.
And see to me, the better approach is telling someone who struggles is "yea, you can still eat that, it's okay". Yes, it will be hard to moderate because you have been grabbing a twinkie after every meal for the last however many years. Yes, the stuff tastes fantastic. Yes, you will have to limit the twinkies. But NO, you do not have to eliminate them. You aren't addicted to them. You are just used to the habits of eating them. You can beat that.
Sure and a deprivation mindset can lead to bingeing which is actually harmful to a person's goal.
However, simply knowing that does not mean a person can execute such behaviour or even that it is suitable for them at that particular point in time (though it may well be in the future.) Again, much of what is going to work will depend on their psychology so a flexible approach would not have any card off the table even if that includes short term elimination.
This forum has a real focus on physiology and scientific accuracy which is great. However, people's psychology and emotional status is much less catered for and disregarded at times.
I actually agree, however, making sure someone knows that sugar isn't inherently bad, and that they don't have to eliminate items, does not mean they shouldn't in my opinion. At a certain point, as an adult, they need to determine what works for them. If that means elimination for a while, that's okay. It goes back to the reasoning though. You don't eliminate because sugar is bad. You eliminate because you have behavioral tendencies to reach for sugar filled yumminess. To me, that sets a "noob" up for success, rather than failure.
I kinda feel like we believe the same thing, and just differ a bit on the sticking points... It's been a good discussion so thanks.0 -
bobby19666 wrote: »I mean the bad kind and gi foods such as simple carbs. Personally i don't see it as a reason for weight gain
How many people got fat from sucking on too many sugar cubes thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many apples thereby exceeding their TDEE? Probably not that many.
How many people got fat from eating too many cakes, chocolate bars, sweets, fizzy pop, biscuits thereby exceeding their TDEE? Errrrrrrrr.
The principal issue with sugar and weight gain in my opinion is not the actual substance itself but rather how it is combined with other things (particularly fat - hmmmm, cake batter) to create hyper-palatable products and a person's individual behavioural response to that.
I got fat eating everything…philly cheesteaks, mozzarella sticks, and fried foods where my primer choices…I actually didn to eat many sugar things; although, they were included…
people get fat from overeating on EVERYTHING
Sure, I appreciate that.
However, your experience does speak to my point. The items you listed are highly palatable (cheesesteaks, mozzarella sticks and fried food) but that is not surprising as they tend to be high in fat and fat when used in cooking increases palatability. I don't think it's much of a coincidence that French cuisine which is particularly delicious in my view involves generous amounts of cream and butter.
So, if palatability increases the likelihood of over eating what happens when food stuffs are hyper-palatable especially on a behavioural front? It increases the likelihood and the three items most commonly associated with hyper palatability are sugar, fat and salt.
So what about the people sugar doesn't make things hyper-palatable for? Despite being fat, I was the one kid who though pixie sticks were disgusting. I've always preferred the taste of diet coke to regular - regular tastes like diluted syrup, and I don't like syrup. Don't care for jams or jellies either. Adding sugars to things will actually tend to make them less palatable to me. As much as I enjoy chocolate, if Snickers suddenly added another 50g of sugar to the mix, I'd probably want nothing to with it. Does that suddenly mean added sugar is a good thing?
Then it's not an issue.
For the people it does affect they can have some context to why they struggle so much and knowing why can help them with solutions over and above the "use willpower" approach.
And see to me, the better approach is telling someone who struggles is "yea, you can still eat that, it's okay". Yes, it will be hard to moderate because you have been grabbing a twinkie after every meal for the last however many years. Yes, the stuff tastes fantastic. Yes, you will have to limit the twinkies. But NO, you do not have to eliminate them. You aren't addicted to them. You are just used to the habits of eating them. You can beat that.
Sure and a deprivation mindset can lead to bingeing which is actually harmful to a person's goal.
However, simply knowing that does not mean a person can execute such behaviour or even that it is suitable for them at that particular point in time (though it may well be in the future.) Again, much of what is going to work will depend on their psychology so a flexible approach would not have any card off the table even if that includes short term elimination.
This forum has a real focus on physiology and scientific accuracy which is great. However, people's psychology and emotional status is much less catered for and disregarded at times.
I actually agree, however, making sure someone knows that sugar isn't inherently bad, and that they don't have to eliminate items, does not mean they shouldn't in my opinion. At a certain point, as an adult, they need to determine what works for them. If that means elimination for a while, that's okay. It goes back to the reasoning though. You don't eliminate because sugar is bad. You eliminate because you have behavioral tendencies to reach for sugar filled yumminess. To me, that sets a "noob" up for success, rather than failure.
I kinda feel like we believe the same thing, and just differ a bit on the sticking points... It's been a good discussion so thanks.
Yeah, it's been great to examine things from another perspective. I suspect there is a large area of convergence between our views.
Have a good one mate.
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Shockingly good discussion in here. I'm impressed.0
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FYI, a snickers has a lower glycemic index than dates or watermelon, and lower glycemic load than dates.
The insulin index of a donut? Lower than the insulin index of a banana or grapes.
Which is why I usually don't eat those. Especially not dates unless it's in the occasional desert. Bananas sometimes but not too often. Generally I stick to raspberries, or the like.
Ya, I can't eat more that one date at a time, and sometimes just one makes me queasy. One date would be considerably less than the 2 ounces/56 grams I posted to compare with my normal 2 ounce servings size of bananas and raspberries.
Off to pick some berries now.
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Ok revision time. People eat sugar still lose weight. Which is great. I think I will have to take it on a case by case basis. If it's a high calorie food il look at what else I have eaten. E.g. skip the dessert but it isn't bad now and again. Saying that what I was eating though not much was high sugar, I cut sweet treats out dropped weight probably due to better calorie control and nutrition. I love fruit I would still eat fruit. But il just be more careful what I eat. Such as skipping a bar of chocolate at work. That's nearly .5 lb a week saved0
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