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DeguelloTex wrote: »
How much fluid and for what period of time would you say is a reasonable estimate here?I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
This has been going on for a month. A 6'3", 300 pound, 25 year old (guess) male has a BMR of around 2700. We're talking about something like a 40% deficit from BMR, let alone TDEE. That's 8+ pounds in a month. And, after a month, he's retaining so much fluid that it not only offsets the 8+ pounds but makes his clothes fit tighter?
Yeah, it's not impossible. It's probably also not the most likely explanation.
Oh yeah that's a big factor I forgot to mention. He's 42. Sorry about that.
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Here's a tip....
Just kidding, no tips for you. Good luck on your journey.
Which is funny because when he and I had this converstaion last night I actually advised him to talk to you because I've always thought you gave really good advise when it comes to lifting. I guess I put you on an unwarranted high horse. Sorry about that.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »Here's a tip....
Just kidding, no tips for you. Good luck on your journey.
Which is funny because when he and I had this converstaion last night I actually advised him to talk to you because I've always thought you gave really good advise when it comes to lifting. I guess I put you on an unwarranted high horse. Sorry about that.
Awe, that's sweet. Thanks so much.0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
Yes, I deserved that. I should have known better than to ask for experience rather than the scooby workshop calculator.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
How much fluid and for what period of time would you say is a reasonable estimate here?I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
This has been going on for a month. A 6'3", 300 pound, 25 year old (guess) male has a BMR of around 2700. We're talking about something like a 40% deficit from BMR, let alone TDEE. That's 8+ pounds in a month. And, after a month, he's retaining so much fluid that it not only offsets the 8+ pounds but makes his clothes fit tighter?
Yeah, it's not impossible. It's probably also not the most likely explanation.
Yes, that's a fair point as well.
That said I would think that a 8lb loss of fat for a man that size could be masked relatively easily by an even greater level of water / fluid retention over the course of a month (which is a relatively short period. )0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
Yes, I deserved that. I should have known better than to ask for experience rather than the scooby workshop calculator.
I am 5'6" so no I don't have experience. Also my heaviest I was 265. which is my middle picture.
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madhatter2013 wrote: »Here's a tip....
Just kidding, no tips for you. Good luck on your journey.
Which is funny because when he and I had this converstaion last night I actually advised him to talk to you because I've always thought you gave really good advise when it comes to lifting. I guess I put you on an unwarranted high horse. Sorry about that.
Awe, that's sweet. Thanks so much.
Interestingly enough, my opinion about your advise doesn't change so here's my question to you, if I were to advise him to talk to you about his concerns, would you be a jerk to him too or would actually be helpful and supportive? I am a woman and his wife which, in his eyes, makes my advise arguable. I think he would have a much better and healthier journey with guys to look to for advise.0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
are you only seeing what you want to see?
2000 for a man who is 6 ft 3 and over 300lbs is not enough even if he wasn't working out.
My son albeit younger maintains on 4000-4500 depending on his daily work...as a welder.
he is 6 ft 3 and 21 but 240lbs...smh
give that man some food so he stops starving and eating behind your back.
My maintenance during the summer is more than 2k...and I am a 150lb female...
based on scooby with 1-3hours of light activty his BMR is 2627and TDEE is 2889...0 -
If he is eating 1600 calories (genuinely eating that much for the last month), he doesn't have 10 pounds of water retention, but more like 18+. That is a crazy amount, even at 300 pounds.
My theory: the cut is too large. He's sneaking food and assuming he's still in a deficit when he's actually in a surplus. Go to a reasonable deficit and see what happens. And ask him why: is he too hungry, is he resentful of you for hovering over his diet, what?0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
Start him at 2,700. Keep the volume of exercise the same. The goal for that month is not to lose weight but to ensure that he feels confident and happy in the process and logs with the highest degree of accuracy manageable.
Once he has that down check results after a month. If there is no movement, reduce cals by say 150. Check results after a month. Keep doing this until he reaches a sweet spot where weight is coming off smoothly. If he gets to say 2,000 cals with no movement introduce moderate amounts of cardio.
This is a long term game where if you learn to love the process (be your own science experiment) rather than the results you end up errrr, getting better results.
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The flip side is that on a man that large -- I was even larger -- the amount of water it would take not only to mask the loss but to make him bigger would have to be commensurately larger. A few pounds spread over a frame that size probably wouldn't be noticeable. It would have to be a relatively substantial amount above and beyond any loss from a 40%+ calorie cut for a month.DeguelloTex wrote: »
How much fluid and for what period of time would you say is a reasonable estimate here?I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
This has been going on for a month. A 6'3", 300 pound, 25 year old (guess) male has a BMR of around 2700. We're talking about something like a 40% deficit from BMR, let alone TDEE. That's 8+ pounds in a month. And, after a month, he's retaining so much fluid that it not only offsets the 8+ pounds but makes his clothes fit tighter?
Yeah, it's not impossible. It's probably also not the most likely explanation.
Yes, that's a fair point as well.
That said I would think that a 8lb loss of fat for a man that size could be masked relatively easily by an even greater level of water / fluid retention over the course of a month (which is a relatively short period. )
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madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
are you only seeing what you want to see?
2000 for a man who is 6 ft 3 and over 300lbs is not enough even if he wasn't working out.
My son albeit younger maintains on 4000-4500 depending on his daily work...as a welder.
he is 6 ft 3 and 21 but 240lbs...smh
give that man some food so he stops starving and eating behind your back.
My maintenance during the summer is more than 2k...and I am a 150lb female...
based on scooby with 1-3hours of light activty his BMR is 2627and TDEE is 2889...
^This. You were given the calculator because it is going to be more accurate than people guessing. Don't assume everything is an attack. Playing the victim in this thread isn't going to help your husband.0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
are you only seeing what you want to see?
2000 for a man who is 6 ft 3 and over 300lbs is not enough even if he wasn't working out.
My son albeit younger maintains on 4000-4500 depending on his daily work...as a welder.
he is 6 ft 3 and 21 but 240lbs...smh
give that man some food so he stops starving and eating behind your back.
My maintenance during the summer is more than 2k...and I am a 150lb female...
based on scooby with 1-3hours of light activty his BMR is 2627and TDEE is 2889...
^This. You were given the calculator because it is going to be more accurate than people guessing. Don't assume everything is an attack. Playing the victim in this thread isn't going to help your husband.
No one is attacking me. I'm not sure whre in my posts your getting that vibe. I'm not playing the victim either. Only asking for advise, from other people who may have experienced similar concerns, to help my stubborn husband beyond what I've learned in the two years I've been doing this. As I said perviously, I am not a guy so I don't know if things change differently with those genes.
SezxyStef has been one of my inspirations the last couple years. I've headed quite a bit if her advise form other threads for myself.0 -
He should keep lifting, stop sneaking food, and be patient while waiting on visible and physical results. IF that's what he wants to do.
If you've been at it for two years, surely you know that there are setbacks with trial and error. If you'll allow it, I'd up his calorie allowance to reflect what a man his size should be eating to be at a reasonable deficit. 1600-2000 ain't it.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
The flip side is that on a man that large -- I was even larger -- the amount of water it would take not only to mask the loss but to make him bigger would have to be commensurately larger. A few pounds spread over a frame that size probably wouldn't be noticeable. It would have to be a relatively substantial amount above and beyond any loss from a 40%+ calorie cut for a month.DeguelloTex wrote: »
How much fluid and for what period of time would you say is a reasonable estimate here?I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
This has been going on for a month. A 6'3", 300 pound, 25 year old (guess) male has a BMR of around 2700. We're talking about something like a 40% deficit from BMR, let alone TDEE. That's 8+ pounds in a month. And, after a month, he's retaining so much fluid that it not only offsets the 8+ pounds but makes his clothes fit tighter?
Yeah, it's not impossible. It's probably also not the most likely explanation.
Yes, that's a fair point as well.
That said I would think that a 8lb loss of fat for a man that size could be masked relatively easily by an even greater level of water / fluid retention over the course of a month (which is a relatively short period. )
Not necessarily. Subcutaneous water can be disproportionately localised at certain sites (around the abdomen for example.)
That said even if there had been measurements taken at multiple sites consistently over the course of the month we couldn't tell really given user error mainly so this is all speculation (particularly on my part I admit!)0 -
madhatter2013 wrote: »madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
are you only seeing what you want to see?
2000 for a man who is 6 ft 3 and over 300lbs is not enough even if he wasn't working out.
My son albeit younger maintains on 4000-4500 depending on his daily work...as a welder.
he is 6 ft 3 and 21 but 240lbs...smh
give that man some food so he stops starving and eating behind your back.
My maintenance during the summer is more than 2k...and I am a 150lb female...
based on scooby with 1-3hours of light activty his BMR is 2627and TDEE is 2889...
^This. You were given the calculator because it is going to be more accurate than people guessing. Don't assume everything is an attack. Playing the victim in this thread isn't going to help your husband.
No one is attacking me. I'm not sure whre in my posts your getting that vibe. I'm not playing the victim either. Only asking for advise, from other people who may have experienced similar concerns, to help my stubborn husband beyond what I've learned in the two years I've been doing this. As I said perviously, I am not a guy so I don't know if things change differently with those genes.
SezxyStef has been one of my inspirations the last couple years. I've headed quite a bit if her advise form other threads for myself.
You kind of attack me with your smart comment about me bringing in the calculator.madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »madhatter2013 wrote: »yopeeps025 wrote: »I_Will_End_You wrote: »I wanted to say water retention. But then I read that this 6'3, 300lb man doesn't lose at 1800 calories per day.
But we don't know if he has stopped losing fat right? That's an unknown quantity. We know he has stopped losing weight which is something else altogether.
We do know that he was losing on that caloric intake with cardio (presumably low intensity) but also he has recently started a more intense form of exercise (lifting) which is more likely to prompt water / fluid retention.
What I would add is I think OP started him calorie goal too low to start. We all know what happens as you keep losing weight. Especially with aggressive deficits.
Sure, and there's too many variables at play to make any confident predictions really (calories go down, cardio is dropped, weights are introduced and so on.)
I think an approach would be to go to a sensible baseline level of calories, keep exercise consistent for a month and then tweak depending on results.
Yup
Absolutely. So what's a good baseline. Should he bump back up to the 2000 and go from there or would that be too low for his size?
http://scoobysworkshop.com/calorie-calculator/
Yes, I deserved that. I should have known better than to ask for experience rather than the scooby workshop calculator.
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_incogNEATo_ wrote: »He should keep lifting, stop sneaking food, and be patient while waiting on visible and physical results. IF that's what he wants to do.
If you've been at it for two years, surely you know that there are setbacks with trial and error. If you'll allow it, I'd up his calorie allowance to reflect what a man his size should be eating to be at a reasonable deficit. 1600-2000 ain't it.
And this is what we have been discussing. He's just afraid, as with most newbies to weght loss, that if he eats more he'll gain again. I can assure him until I'm blue in the face that he's incorrect but that doesn't change his mind. I'm trying to let him make and learn from his own mistakes while also trying not to let him sabatoge himself in the process.0
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