New York Times - "Americans are finally eating less"
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dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
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dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.0 -
It's definitely not the case around here, but the grocery market in Fort Worth and Dallas seems especially competitive for some reason.
There are 15 or so Walmarts alone in Fort Worth and it looks like no more than 3 or 4 miles between them as the crow flies, if Google Maps can be believed. There are three around what's generally seen as the impoverished part of town.
That doesn't mean it isn't an issue in other places, though.0 -
The prices also reflect higher losses due to theft and higher insurance rates, so there's that, too.DeguelloTex wrote: »It's definitely not the case around here, but the grocery market in Fort Worth and Dallas seems especially competitive for some reason.
There are 15 or so Walmarts alone in Fort Worth and it looks like no more than 3 or 4 miles between them as the crow flies, if Google Maps can be believed. There are three around what's generally seen as the impoverished part of town.
That doesn't mean it isn't an issue in other places, though.
I am sure it does depend on the region. I have noticed it in every community I've lived in which has ranged from Vermont to Indiana to New York and now Boston. Of course as a social worker working with impoverished people, I am sure I am also more hyper sensitive to it than others.
Another interesting thing that tends to happen in areas of poverty even if they do have access to grocery stores, their prices tend to be higher. We have a Stop and Shop here in the really poor area of town and another one in the more well to do area of town. The prices in the poor store are significantly higher for the same product. While it doesn't seem to make sense, the people in poorer areas of town usually have less access to reliable transportation and there is less competition often, so the prices reflect that. They know that the people will drive for the better prices in the wealthier areas, so they tend to get the deals. I find it infuriating.
Around here, prices are higher in the wealthier areas. Markedly so. Not just for groceries, but the gas prices, too.
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In my area, all of the suburbs food demands are well met by large clean grocery stores, but if you go into the city you won't find a single walmart. There are a handful of small independent grocery stores, but not much of a presence by the big stores that service all of the suburbs. Essentially the grocery store density drop by >50% when going from outside the city to inside the city. While there are enough stores if you have a car, if you have to walk or take the bus (crappy system here, would take you an hour to get to a grocery store, you are often better off walking) you are typically restricted to the corner store as there are no nearby grocery stores. Buying a banana or Apple from the convenience store will cost 5x or more compared to the grocery store.0
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TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
I thought it wasn't the case here, until I learned what to look for. There are apartment complexes that only have small overpriced convenience stores within walking distance, and as pointed out above, people are unwilling to pay for fresh food that may go bad when canned is available. Additionally, someone on food stamps might be worried about going over if something is marked per pound and end up with boxes at a fixed price instead.0 -
Is buying canned -- or frozen, for that matter -- rather than fresh produce really the problem here, though?barbecuesauce wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
I thought it wasn't the case here, until I learned what to look for. There are apartment complexes that only have small overpriced convenience stores within walking distance, and as pointed out above, people are unwilling to pay for fresh food that may go bad when canned is available. Additionally, someone on food stamps might be worried about going over if something is marked per pound and end up with boxes at a fixed price instead.
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When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
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dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.0 -
When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
The two grocery stores I prefer to shop at are both about 3/4 of a mile from me, and I walk it. Many people shop once a week. Seriously, 4 extra minutes once a week is just an excuse. I know people who will take a bus or subway every week to go grocery shopping...not because there aren't grocery stores close to them, but because they prefer one in a different part of the city either because of broader selection, better prices, or more specialized products. It's not like you need to do this every day.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.
Same here. The farmer's markets are a HUGE markup. I can't afford to buy there.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.
They are more expensive here, too. But I *will* go and spend a bit more at the farmer's market because I know the produce was harvested within a day, and as a small show of support to the local agricultural community, without whom we'd be truly fecked.0 -
You never actually lived in the inner city, did you?MoiAussi93 wrote: »When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
The two grocery stores I prefer to shop at are both about 3/4 of a mile from me, and I walk it. Many people shop once a week. Seriously, 4 extra minutes once a week is just an excuse. I know people who will take a bus or subway every week to go grocery shopping...not because there aren't grocery stores close to them, but because they prefer one in a different part of the city either because of broader selection, better prices, or more specialized products. It's not like you need to do this every day.
ok. Great. Doesn't mean that the scarcity of food access and availability isn't an issue for many people in poverty in both urban and rural areas.
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
The two grocery stores I prefer to shop at are both about 3/4 of a mile from me, and I walk it. Many people shop once a week. Seriously, 4 extra minutes once a week is just an excuse. I know people who will take a bus or subway every week to go grocery shopping...not because there aren't grocery stores close to them, but because they prefer one in a different part of the city either because of broader selection, better prices, or more specialized products. It's not like you need to do this every day.
ok. Great. Doesn't mean that the scarcity of food access and availability isn't an issue for many people in poverty in both urban and rural areas.
If they don't have a car in rural areas I don't think they could get anywhere or do anything...including work. If they have a car...just drive to the grocery store. If it's a 15 minute drive instead of an 11 minute drive, that is a ridiculous excuse.
But I have lived in several large cities, and lived in a bad neighborhood in college. There were large grocery stores even there. And everybody in an urban area has access to public transportation if there is not. You don't need to live two blocks from a grocery store. That is one of the problems with our society...people expect everything to be super convenient. Sometimes you need to put a little effort in. If it matters to you, you will.0 -
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks.
I'm curious to hear how that works out. I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
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